Fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru (Discussion)

[robtek]

I think the one most important point the "abandoned" crowd is missing is that there is no money to build this nice shiny additional content for the BoB!!!!

Where should it come from? From the abundant sales, enforced by great reviews, whining boards and the sorry state of the game in the beginning?

Which sane business man would throw away money in a closed project stage that wont gain any additional income.

The only way to get additional content for the BoB would be a full priced expansion pack, maybe with a map from northeast england to norway, The Bf110 D and some British bombers and ships to recreate the unsuccessful British invasion in Norway.

[furbs]

I think the one most important point the "abandoned" crowd is missing is that there is no money to build this nice shiny additional content for the BoB!!!!


Just a idea, maybe it should of come with the release after 5+ years of development or the 15 months since, just MHO of course.

They ran out of money (7 mill for development) because the sim wasn't and still isn't good enough, it got panned on release by the critics and quite rightly, so it didn't sell enough units.
The fault lies in the almost 10 years of terrible badly managed development time, where the money was chucked in the bin and then the 2 years of rushed catch up time to get the half finished botched poor excuse for a BOB sim release out the door that we see now.

[albx]

so, where is the most anticipated revelation about the MMO paytoplay, paytowin, paypal, bankaccount, suckmyblood ??

[robtek]

Just a idea, maybe it should of come with the release after 5+ years of development or the 15 months since, just MHO of course.

They ran out of money (7 mill for development) because the sim wasn't and still isn't good enough, it got panned on release by the critics and quite rightly, so it didn't sell enough units.
The fault lies in the almost 10 years of terrible badly managed development time, where the money was chucked in the bin and then the 2 years of rushed catch up time to get the half finished botched poor excuse for a BOB sim release out the door that we see now.

Regurgitation, as yammering, doesn't help anybody, and second guessing business and management decisions without deeper knowledge of interna is plain frivolous propaganda.
imho.

[furbs]

Regurgitation, as yammering, doesn't help anybody, and second guessing business and management decisions without deeper knowledge of interna is plain frivolous propaganda.
imho.


Just explaining it to you rob, you was the one telling us they ran out of money.

[kendo65]

I think the one most important point the "abandoned" crowd is missing is that there is no money to build this nice shiny additional content for the BoB!!!!

Where should it come from? From the abundant sales, enforced by great reviews, whining boards and the sorry state of the game in the beginning?

Which sane business man would throw away money in a closed project stage that wont gain any additional income.

The only way to get additional content for the BoB would be a full priced expansion pack, maybe with a map from northeast england to norway, The Bf110 D and some British bombers and ships to recreate the unsuccessful British invasion in Norway.

Probably all true. The situation we've ended up in was not the plan that's for sure.

I'm still aware of the potential of this sim. I've ripped into it in these posts over the aspects that are bad but I'm aware of the current good points - quality of the cockpits, damage modelling, etc and I'm aware of the breadth of detail and vision behind the whole concept.

When (if?) they finally get this together (hopefully with BOM) with full dynamic weather and everything working as it should the results could be fantastic.

It's the awareness of that and the fact that the early screw-ups and problems have mangled my expectation of COD being the ultimate Battle of Britain sim that makes the disappointment worse. The mess-ups have ruined the possibilities for COD and turned it into little more than an extended prototype and testing ground for development of the engine. 5 years into the future if this sim matures and we have a really great Russian Front, Mediterranean and maybe even the Pacific the fact that the COD/ Battle of Britain instalment will (without further work) be the 'ugly duckling' of the series is difficult for me to accept. It's become such a squandered opportunity to make a great game about a battle that many of us (Brits especially) had real interest and passion for.

If the community don't remedy the problems my only hope is that when the devs come to revisit the western front to bring us into 41-43 they could provide map improvements and extra features that would flesh it all out, but it's a big disappointment to be asked to wait that long.

[6S.Tamat]

I only know that the first rule of any kind of business is customer care. Clod coul be a good negative example.
For sure i would be happy to flight the new sim, but the time is going on and the simulator is not following. The lies and the failure in the communication strategy of the team are not helping at all.

[philip.ed]

Is what I said


To which I say DUH

Yawn. I said it as well, but you have to try to be so condescending all the time you can't see the forest for the trees.

Indeed, when I said that, by going into new territory at this stage, the situation with regards to their strategy is different than before, you said:

"blah blah blah... because they went into new territory with the likes of Pacific fighters it is the same...So even that analogy of yours does not apply"

So it's nice to see we've finally convinced you to change your mind.

Wow, maybe we should bookmark this date? AoA changes his mind! :grin:

[Baron]

so, where is the most anticipated revelation about the MMO paytoplay, paytowin, paypal, bankaccount, suckmyblood ??



I think the most anticipated feature would be "suckmyblood and ill be happy taking it through the backdoor on a regular monthly basis". But i wouldnt call it a revelation. :)

[JG53Frankyboy]

MMO may change the old add-on approach. But engine remains mostly the same probably........
exactly that is it. all old announcements MIGHT BE obsolete! We just have to wait the official words about this MMO stuff. business planes change sometimes...........

[Thee_oddball]

Just a idea, maybe it should of come with the release after 5+ years of development or the 15 months since, just MHO of course.

They ran out of money (7 mill for development) because the sim wasn't and still isn't good enough, it got panned on release by the critics and quite rightly, so it didn't sell enough units.
The fault lies in the almost 10 years of terrible badly managed development time, where the money was chucked in the bin and then the 2 years of rushed catch up time to get the half finished botched poor excuse for a BOB sim release out the door that we see now.

i don't think there was 5 years development. 1.5 years? for the CLOD engine , I think they scraped the original SOW engine.

2/10/2010 "were STARTING a whole game engine from SCRATCH" Ilya

plus what there playing looks alot like the preview from the CD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoz1Kb2wkPE

[klem]

i don't think there was 5 years development. 1.5 years? for the CLOD engine , I think they scraped the original SOW engine.

2/10/2010 "were STARTING a whole game engine from SCRATCH" Ilya

plus what there playing looks alot like the preview from the CD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoz1Kb2wkPE

I think that's generally correct. Something was happening during the last year or two before release and what we have is definitely not the product of 7 years development unless it was wandering woefully in the wilderness. Also, in that video, most if not all was taken from IL-2 1946. It has always given me the feeling that either the guts were ripped out of it for some reason (<enter political/finacial/skulduggery reason here> or it was started again from scratch around late 2009/2010.

[philip.ed]

Actually, the game Luthier is playing there is the current one. This was right before they started installing the current landscape features, Luthier himself saying that parts of the current landscape could actually be seen in the video. They weren't happy to have to do it as the game was no where near ready for testing (as the choppy FPS shows).

[Chivas]

Probably all true. The situation we've ended up in was not the plan that's for sure.

I'm still aware of the potential of this sim. I've ripped into it in these posts over the aspects that are bad but I'm aware of the current good points - quality of the cockpits, damage modelling, etc and I'm aware of the breadth of detail and vision behind the whole concept.

When (if?) they finally get this together (hopefully with BOM) with full dynamic weather and everything working as it should the results could be fantastic.

It's the awareness of that and the fact that the early screw-ups and problems have mangled my expectation of COD being the ultimate Battle of Britain sim that makes the disappointment worse. The mess-ups have ruined the possibilities for COD and turned it into little more than an extended prototype and testing ground for development of the engine. 5 years into the future if this sim matures and we have a really great Russian Front, Mediterranean and maybe even the Pacific the fact that the COD/ Battle of Britain installment will (without further work) be the 'ugly duckling' of the series is difficult for me to accept. It's become such a squandered opportunity to make a great game about a battle that many of us (Brits especially) had real interest and passion for.

If the community don't remedy the problems my only hope is that when the devs come to revisit the western front to bring us into 41-43 they could provide map improvements and extra features that would flesh it all out, but it's a big disappointment to be asked to wait that long.

The main problem with COD and the Battle of Britain type scenarios is the unfinished, unstable game engine and features. The game engine and most features will have to be fixed if the developer expects to sell the next Sequel and develop an MMO. IF and When the engine and features are fixed COD will be updated with patches and a combined install with the next sequel. These fixes should allow the community to make far more realistic campaigns. My only concern is their implementation of radar and home defence type vectors. That said I know they aren't that far off as the sim has always run fairly well with large amounts of aircraft on the highly optimized system that I use to only run COD.

As far as waiting for the Sequel for fixes, this may not be the case, as they would likely use COD and the community to test many of these fixes and features, before releasing the next sequel.

[Jaws2002]

I think that's generally correct. Something was happening during the last year or two before release and what we have is definitely not the product of 7 years development unless it was wandering woefully in the wilderness. Also, in that video, most if not all was taken from IL-2 1946. It has always given me the feeling that either the guts were ripped out of it for some reason (<enter political/finacial/skulduggery reason here> or it was started again from scratch around late 2009/2010.

I know that sometimes during 2009-2010 they fired/lost a few key programers, including their main programer that worked on Il-2 and designed a big chunk of the new game engine. It looks like the new guys aren't able to fill that void. I think they are still trying to recover from that loss.

Of course I may be wrong, but that's the only thing that would explain the dificulty they have fixing some bugs in the engine. The guys trying to fix it, are not the ones that build it.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

So it's nice to see we've finally convinced you to change your mind.
http://payload.cargocollective.com/1/0/633/1351729/Ripo_Dream-On_Los-Angeles_7th-Mateo_April11-1_1000.jpg

[Chivas]

The development did have some employee problems and one of them was the water coder, but it was never said how critical those people who left or were fired were. I know when I was testing Gaijins WOP many aspects of the sim appeared very similiar the original IL-2.
(other than the FM which I know they borrowed from the original IL-2) and I wondered if some of SOW people left to work with Gaijin.

[Feathered_IV]

I wonder if any of that internal disharmony still exists within the current team. Luthier said just prior to release that he took the pilot animations guy off his job and put him on something else at the last moment. He said that the person in question "hates his guts for it" and acknowledged that it was a big mistake to do so. One also wonders how Luthier is seen by his staff. Do the home grown Russian team view him as an American and an outsider? Must be tough to hold it all together.

[hiro]

I know that sometimes during 2009-2010 they fired/lost a few key programers, including their main programer that worked on Il-2 and designed a big chunk of the new game engine. It looks like the new guys aren't able to fill that void. I think they are still trying to recover from that loss.

Of course I may be wrong, but that's the only thing that would explain the dificulty they have fixing some bugs in the engine. The guys trying to fix it, are not the ones that build it.

true

yeah like Oleg . . . the guy who designed the original successor's engine and the original game . . .

But I think Ilya and the current crew keep at it, they will have a game worthy of Il-2 1946.


The time its taking them? Even to diagnose which part of the code the problems are having takes a long time to separate, especially if the code is complicated /and or different parts are co-dependent on each other (which Il-2 ClOD's code fits), even if you have the original coders.

Heck, and I'm not counting that could be architectural / design issue, and then that really messes up because once that is changed, everything else has to be changed also . . .

[Thee_oddball]

I think that's generally correct. Something was happening during the last year or two before release and what we have is definitely not the product of 7 years development unless it was wandering woefully in the wilderness. Also, in that video, most if not all was taken from IL-2 1946. It has always given me the feeling that either the guts were ripped out of it for some reason (<enter political/finacial/skulduggery reason here> or it was started again from scratch around late 2009/2010.

Agree except that what you are seeing in the video is the Alpha I believe of the original SOW engine, if you look at the the cockpit at 2:10 of the 87 and then look at this video from 2006 of the upcoming storm ot war they are the same. Also there is something blurred out at the top of the screen between 2:10 and 2:20...i dont think it is a FPS indicator. i dont think it could be 46...way to choppy...unless he has a real POS PC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgIGWCcsO78




Actually, the game Luthier is playing there is the current one. This was right before they started installing the current landscape features, Luthier himself saying that parts of the current landscape could actually be seen in the video. They weren't happy to have to do it as the game was no where near ready for testing (as the choppy FPS shows).

Phil i think that is SOW, if you look at the original video from 2006 it is not smooth...meaning unoptimised code or the PC could not handle it or both, as for the landscape look at the second video..i know the quality sucks but you will see the landscapes look the same as in time index 1:48-53 of the original video I posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OWQ55n8ig&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3sf0eiQ--o



I know that sometimes during 2009-2010 they fired/lost a few key programers, including their main programer that worked on Il-2 and designed a big chunk of the new game engine. It looks like the new guys aren't able to fill that void. I think they are still trying to recover from that loss.

Of course I may be wrong, but that's the only thing that would explain the dificulty they have fixing some bugs in the engine. The guys trying to fix it, are not the ones that build it.

Jaws I am %100 sure they did not start writing SOW in .NET in 2005/6, whom ever the programmers were that they lost in 2009/10 must have taken the engine with them because at the same time ilya stated they were writing a NEW engine from scratch...so they didn't try to fix the bugs in the old engine because for what ever reason they did not have access to it.. hence the reason for using .NET

[philip.ed]

No, I am 100% right. That video was posted by Luthier when the weekly CloD updates were in full swing. The cockpits will look similar because they stayed the same for CloD! Trust me, I can remember that update well.

They hadn't yet moved to speed-tree, or they were trying to make it work. The landscape, as I said, was being worked on.

It wasn't renamed to CloD until November 2010.

[pupo162]

No, I am 100% right. That video was posted by Luthier when the weekly CloD updates were in full swing. The cockpits will look similar because they stayed the same for CloD! Trust me, I can remember that update well.

They hadn't yet moved to speed-tree, or they were trying to make it work. The landscape, as I said, was being worked on.

It wasn't renamed to CloD until November 2010.


yes, the first 2 planes to be desplayed in 2006 (?) were the spit mk1, and the he111.

unfortonatly those 2 pits didnt got updated to 2011 standards, and have such a bad quality compared to its mates...

yekes.

[philip.ed]

Here's the post by Luthier to support my previous post:
(from this topic: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=13200&highlight=terrain )


DISCLAIMER: THIS IS SO WORK IN PROGRESS IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY

For today's update, we have a little TV spot about Battle of Britain from a TV show about video game peripherals that run on the Russia Today channel last week.

They were mostly interested in the TrackIR, so we gave them a little demo of our 6DOF implementation.

The TV crew caught us at just about the worst time imaginable. We were making big changes to our terrain engine. The crew came on very short notice. The day they told us they were coming, we started replacing terrain placeholders with final features. It was a tedious procedure that took several days.

We couldn't hold back development for Russia Today, and we couldn't reschedule their visit. So, on the day of the shooting, long story short, we only had half the game in working condition to show them. The other half... Well, see for yourself.

Nevertheless, we hope you will find this clip interesting. If anything, it'll give you a taste of what our development environment is really like, and all the iterations our games go through before they're good and ready.

Now, where's my asbestos suit?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoz1Kb2wkPE

[Thee_oddball]

yes, the first 2 planes to be desplayed in 2006 (?) were the spit mk1, and the he111.

unfortonatly those 2 pits didnt got updated to 2011 standards, and have such a bad quality compared to its mates...

yekes.

those were not the only planes in the works 2006 :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_WLRDY42QU

[Thee_oddball]

Here's the post by Luthier to support my previous post:
(from this topic: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=13200&highlight=terrain )
phill just because they say it is does not mean it is... :( look at this update from 1/22/2010 http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=12757&highlight=Friday+VIDEO+Discussion+Thread

look at the second pic of the br20, and then look at this from 2006 time index 2:17- there calling this NEW and UPDATE! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_WLRDY42QU

[philip.ed]

Here's the thing, the first version of SoW was Open GL. They then made a new engine which was Direct X, but kept a lot of the objects.

So what I linked to is the second version, but obviously not a lot has been done on the objects.
Indeed, that video of the first SoW version shows a landscape that, to me, has much better colours and tree placements than what we currently have.

[jamesdietz]

This may not be exactly the right place for this question,and I'll understand if it is moved.It is really a hypothetical one anyway...Il-2 didn't really start to take off ( so to speak) until its code was cracked & modders had a field day ( & still are to some degree...)Could the same thing happen here ,if as mentioned all new developement to CloD is to be stopped( with the exception of well known performance & visibility issues?I'm guessing alot of still unshown ,unfinished bits are/were well along the way ( Do-17 cockpit, Bf-108 flyable,He-59 floatplane to name just three.) In looking at the work if Modders at SAS & AAS it looks as if there is a vast resource that could be a real benefit in not only fixing this sim but finally making it live up to its promise as a real historical re-do of the Battle of Britain ( France , Poland etc.) I know there are already small mods going on & mentioned at this site, but I don't dare try them as the next official patch could simply wipe them out ( at least that's my understanding.So is this possible , can modders go into this & fix it? The devlopers seem to be taking their time( and perhaps spending it on the Battle of Moscow or whatever title it will be...)or is the sim just too complex for 3rd parties to tackle?
I like many others enjoy the sim( even with indifferent FPs) but at times what it doesn't do with the features it has & don't work drive me a little crazy!

[csThor]

This may not be exactly the right place for this question,and I'll understand if it is moved.It is really a hypothetical one anyway...Il-2 didn't really start to take off ( so to speak) until its code was cracked & modders had a field day ( & still are to some degree...)Could the same thing happen here ,if as mentioned all new developement to CloD is to be stopped( with the exception of well known performance & visibility issues?I'm guessing alot of still unshown ,unfinished bits are/were well along the way ( Do-17 cockpit, Bf-108 flyable,He-59 floatplane to name just three.) In looking at the work if Modders at SAS & AAS it looks as if there is a vast resource that could be a real benefit in not only fixing this sim but finally making it live up to its promise as a real historical re-do of the Battle of Britain ( France , Poland etc.) I know there are already small mods going on & mentioned at this site, but I don't dare try them as the next official patch could simply wipe them out ( at least that's my understanding.So is this possible , can modders go into this & fix it? The devlopers seem to be taking their time( and perhaps spending it on the Battle of Moscow or whatever title it will be...)or is the sim just too complex for 3rd parties to tackle?
I like many others enjoy the sim( even with indifferent FPs) but at times what it doesn't do with the features it has & don't work drive me a little crazy!

I find this blind faith in "the modders" highly amusing. As it is there were a handful of people (literally) who could and did produce models for 1946 which adhered to the given standards and didn't need any or much fixing. The new 3D models are a few more notches above what we had in 1946 and given the amount of internal things (structural parts, systems etc) I doubt there is a single 3D modeller who can produce an aircraft or cockpit within a year, if the standards of MG can be achieved by private people at all (due to the question of obtaining sources, spare time vs modelling etc).

Aside this ... in my opinion the game needs other things than more aircraft. There is virtually no offline gameplay (my main gripe), FMs a mess ATM and the issues with the engine itself prevent people from investing more time into making their own solutions.

[robtek]

It is my impression that modding for CoD is a very much more complex endeavour as in 1946.

As most of the modders didn't meet the quality standards of 1946 this would even more so apply for CoD.

The freelance, enthusiastic, unpaid and professional modder would be a very, very rare species.

The chances for professional 3rd party contend are much higher, imo.

[jamesdietz]

Really not blind faith in modders...honestly...and not really a cry for more planes either or cockpits for those we have now & were sort of promised in the years of developement & screenshots ( for all I know they may come with B of Moscow , but I'm not holding my breath...)Part of my question was addressing the many things /features that should work now & don't ( the list is long:RT,AI,FM.Arming,Off & on line issues,FPS,Arming...well you know the list goes on & on..) My question was/is are these problems which seem to have confounded the developers impossible for third parties to help on?
In Il-2 we didn't see the developer step up to may of the issues that were eventually solved by third party people & not the just the addition of aircraft : things like FM ( remember the 190 whinners & they had a point,( 6dof ,aircraft sound,fire & smoke effects,better interiors & modeling ( I'm thinking the 109 in particular,but others as well.) There were tons of stuff Oleg or Luthier said were good enuff & would not go back & address.What they did do is produce several versions (Pacific Fighters,1946,) that were not fully devloped in gameplay,missions etc ( in my opinion,) but that gave third parties a foundation in which to build & expand upon.
I think the last two or three posts have given me my answer:No...not possible ...not now?!

[philip.ed]

I think producing complicated models will be a lot trickier.

But don't think this will put off potential modders. If they can still create external models, which lack the internal details which may not ever be seen, but still look awesome to the everyday user, people will still happily use them.

And I probably would too. Just like I downloaded the first modded Spit mark 1 when it came out. At the time it was better than nothing.

[robtek]

The "better than nothing"-approach misfired for 1c/MG big time.

The regular paying customer wants it all and the glacing directly from the beginning.

[furbs]

The "better than nothing"-approach misfired for 1c/MG big time.

The regular paying customer wants it all and the glacing directly from the beginning.


Not quite, a sim that's not still in alpha after 15 months after release would be a start.

[Chivas]

The developer never did say exactly when they decided too go with DX instead of OpenGL, but they did say they changed the terrain to incorporate SpeedTree, because the original trees stopped the fps cold. Some people have said the original BOB was going to use the original engine, but thats not the case. BOB was always going to be built on a new game engine as the old engine wasn't capable of doing the things they wanted to accomplish. We never did find out for years if the new engine was going to be OpenGL or DX.

[philip.ed]

No, the version shown in the Mystic-Puma video was using Open-GL. This was scrapped and a new engine built (as this was using Il-2 engine)

[Chivas]

We definitely won't be seeing modders build the complex new aircraft models very quickly if at all. I wouldn't mind seeing high quality aircraft like the Lancaster as payware from the developer or 3rd parties. Although I would prefer the developer did it or got paid a decent licencing fee from the 3rd party payware.

[Chivas]

No, the version shown in the Mystic-Puma video was using Open-GL. This was scrapped and a new engine built (as this was using Il-2 engine)

I don't think so, that was rumour started by the forums, not something the developers ever said.

[philip.ed]

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I think you are confused.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=113731&highlight=Open#post113731

The first version (in the DVD video which accompanied 1946) was made on an Open-GL engine, based on Il-2. They then scrapped this and started from fresh.

Oleg himself said:

We initially wanted to make Battle of Britain on the Il-2 engine. However that would be the last thing we could do with it. And then what? The engine was beginning to show its age by that time, despite many revolutionary features which Il-2 brought to the genre in 2001, and which many developers have tried to replicate since. By 2005 we’ve finally realized that we had to build a new engine. First only one person worked on it, then two, all while continuing to work on Il-2 as well. We’ve really switched over to BoB only after all work on Il-2 was completed, i.e. in 2007. So BoB’s only been in development for 2 years now.

But don't let this fool you into thinking the change had happened by 2005. It was most likely 2007 when they scrapped the first build, which was the video we saw on the Il-2 DVD (hence the similarities between the two).


I just had to add this as well (completely unrelated) from the same 2009 interview with Oleg:

Q: Oleg, we have some intel that the next add-on after BoB will be the Mediterranean. Can you let us know how soon that’ll be released? And another even more important question: how soon after BoB can we expect the Eastern Front again, and what are you planning for it?

A: Your intel is nothing but a rumor. Even I myself don’t know whether it’ll be Africa or something else. Everything depends on the success of BoB on the market. Of course, no one has done a comprehensive MTO sim, save for a few unfinished or unsuccessful attempts. Eastern Front or the Pacific will perhaps be the most difficult to develop out of all options. So you should probably not expect to fly Soviet planes immediately after BoB.

:grin:


Also this:

Q: Let’s go back to BoB maps once again. This is a very exciting topic. How will they be different from Il-2 maps?

A: First of all, they will be more detailed. This means all sorts of small details you will notice in flight, with terrain, buildings, roads, etc. Not exactly on topic of maps, but we’ll also have moving grass. Secondly, we will have dynamic weather. This is actually on topic of maps. Even though the weather is handled by a separate weather module, it’ll be tied into the gameplay maps and affected by topography. Thirdly, we’ll have more detailed coastlines. We’ll now have cliffs, not just flat painted textures, but with real elevation. Next, our roads will have smooth curves of various profiles, which will immediately make the terrain look more realistic. In conjunction with new photorealistic textures, new technologies, new light and shading, all of the above will work together to create something that from the air looks really, really close to reality.


I think this is where the doomed 'promises' arose from. He wasn't far wrong, though. It will get there.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Oleg himself said:

We initially wanted to make Battle of Britain on the Il-2 engine. However that would be the last thing we could do with it. And then what? The engine was beginning to show its age by that time, despite many revolutionary features which Il-2 brought to the genre in 2001, and which many developers have tried to replicate since. By 2005 we’ve finally realized that we had to build a new engine. First only one person worked on it, then two, all while continuing to work on Il-2 as well. We’ve really switched over to BoB only after all work on Il-2 was completed, i.e. in 2007. So BoB’s only been in development for 2 years now.
Oleg must have been confused when he said that in 03-04-2009..

Becuase that means CoD was only under dev for 4 years before it was released..

5 years if you count the time they have been working on it since it's release..

But..

There are several forum members here stating that CoD has been under dev for 8+ years before it was released!

9 if you count the year they have been working on it since it's release

And god knows they know better than Oleg! ;)

[Chivas]

I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I think you are confused.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=113731&highlight=Open#post113731

The first version (in the DVD video which accompanied 1946) was made on an Open-GL engine, based on Il-2. They then scrapped this and started from fresh.

Oleg himself said:

We initially wanted to make Battle of Britain on the Il-2 engine. However that would be the last thing we could do with it. And then what? The engine was beginning to show its age by that time, despite many revolutionary features which Il-2 brought to the genre in 2001, and which many developers have tried to replicate since. By 2005 we’ve finally realized that we had to build a new engine. First only one person worked on it, then two, all while continuing to work on Il-2 as well. We’ve really switched over to BoB only after all work on Il-2 was completed, i.e. in 2007. So BoB’s only been in development for 2 years now.

But don't let this fool you into thinking the change had happened by 2005. It was most likely 2007 when they scrapped the first build, which was the video we saw on the Il-2 DVD (hence the similarities between the two).


I just had to add this as well (completely unrelated) from the same 2009 interview with Oleg:

Q: Oleg, we have some intel that the next add-on after BoB will be the Mediterranean. Can you let us know how soon that’ll be released? And another even more important question: how soon after BoB can we expect the Eastern Front again, and what are you planning for it?

A: Your intel is nothing but a rumor. Even I myself don’t know whether it’ll be Africa or something else. Everything depends on the success of BoB on the market. Of course, no one has done a comprehensive MTO sim, save for a few unfinished or unsuccessful attempts. Eastern Front or the Pacific will perhaps be the most difficult to develop out of all options. So you should probably not expect to fly Soviet planes immediately after BoB.

:grin:


Also this:

Q: Let’s go back to BoB maps once again. This is a very exciting topic. How will they be different from Il-2 maps?

A: First of all, they will be more detailed. This means all sorts of small details you will notice in flight, with terrain, buildings, roads, etc. Not exactly on topic of maps, but we’ll also have moving grass. Secondly, we will have dynamic weather. This is actually on topic of maps. Even though the weather is handled by a separate weather module, it’ll be tied into the gameplay maps and affected by topography. Thirdly, we’ll have more detailed coastlines. We’ll now have cliffs, not just flat painted textures, but with real elevation. Next, our roads will have smooth curves of various profiles, which will immediately make the terrain look more realistic. In conjunction with new photorealistic textures, new technologies, new light and shading, all of the above will work together to create something that from the air looks really, really close to reality.


I think this is where the doomed 'promises' arose from. He wasn't far wrong, though. It will get there.

Yes I know remember the quote of the opengl, DX debate. Oleg first annouced BOB in 2003/2004 for a release at the end of 2005, which I thought he said they would use a new 3d engine. I couldn't find Olegs quotes from that time period, but there was some Oleg quotes in May 2005 which mention the new 3D engine.

------------------------------------------
Tom: The Battle of Britain has been rendered either in whole or as part of quite a few games from CFS1 to EAW to Rowan's and Shockwave / GMX's Battle of Britain. In the IL-2 series you never really concentrated on this aerial battle. What compelled you to look at this battle in particular?


Oleg: In IL-2 series we didn't model it because we were planning to get new 3D engine and new fundamental features before to begin this process. In IL-2 series is too hard to model Cliffs of Dover looking real. As you know me, I like to get such things always looking well and natural.
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.simhq.com/_air6/air_220a.html
----------------------------------------------------------------

Other SimHQ interviews with Oleg Maddox see bottom of last page.


http://www.simhq.com/_air11/air_341e.html

Quote---------------
But don't let this fool you into thinking the change had happened by 2005. It was most likely 2007 when they scrapped the first build, which was the video we saw on the Il-2 DVD (hence the similarities between the two).
End Quote-------------

You are probably right they thought about building the sim on the old engine in 2004/2005 as we know now they couldn't have built a new game engine for BOBs release by the end of 2005. That said I think they were building the new game engine long before 2007, but the changes you see could be the change to Speedtree, or they were still using the old game engine to build aspects of the sim until the new game engine was more usable.

[philip.ed]

Oleg must have been confused when he said that in 03-04-2009..

Becuase that means CoD was only under dev for 4 years before it was released..

5 years if you count the time they have been working on it since it's release..

But..

There are several forum members here stating that CoD has been under dev for 8+ years before it was released!

9 if you count the year they have been working on it since it's release

And god knows they know better than Oleg! ;)

Agreed 100% Ace.

The sim has been in development for a long time (since at least 2005, so some 8 years) but the game we're playing today is really only 4 years old or more. It has a lot of the first build present, but really I think it's easy to underestimate the complexities of using a new engine for the first time.


@Chivas, that quote from Oleg on the cliffs is interesting. See the video from the 1946 DVD, and the Cliffs there look quite poor compared to what we have now. So they went ahead and started work, but then changed? They should have released it as an expansion for Il-2 to keep us busy! aha

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Must be that new whiner math? :confused:

[SiThSpAwN]

If you carry the 2 it all adds up....

[FG28_Kodiak]

Can a Mod please cleanup this thread. I only interested in news from Sukhoi (like the thread title) and not on this boring sensless needless Monologs.

[furbs]

If you start development a sim in 2004 but then start again in 2008 because what you made so far wasn't good enough it still counts as development, you think they got the development money back for the 4 years they wasted?

[BlackSix]

Friday Update will be this evening.

[Skilgannon506]

Thanks BlackSix.

[banned]

Friday Update will be this evening.
There ya go. No patch. Awesome, won't have to stay up. Already know the update news.

[Red Dragon-DK]

good to hear. :-)

[Continu0]

Thank you!!!

[JG52Krupi]

Friday Update will be this evening.

Any chance of an updated patch?

[xpzorg]

Friday update and then new holidays in Russia:)

[Anders_And]

Friday update and then new holidays in Russia:)
Are you serious?!? More holidays?! No wonder their economy doesnt pick up with so many holidays!:-P

Unfortunately im not very excited about friday updates anymore. Blacksix its not your fault! We really appreciate that you take time to keep us updated!! Really!!
Its just that its the info you collegues at UBI give you is the same every friday...

"Pictures of another game that we dont have and wont buy until the one we bought is working properly"
And something like "the testing is going well, the team is working hard to fix some newly and unforseen discovered bugs"

Something like that...
Anyway Blacksix you are only the messenger so this IS NOT personally towards you! ;)

[rollnloop]

Ubi has been out of the game since it's out, don't blame them ;)

[F19_Klunk]

Sadly time is passing fast, IL2 1946 has lost it's shimmer and attraction and nothing is there to fill the gap, the squad is beeing almost dispersed. H*ll, those of us who are left are playing a zombie mod for ARMA2!!?!??

Sorry for the negative approach, it just an indication that something has changed... very recently... our mentality! Once we were eager for every Friday Update "oh, it's flyable for us all.. maybe soon". It feels like we have been a leaf floating on water for too long, and it just sank.
In our squad, who have flown as a group for 10 years, there is almost no interest left for flightsims, this endevour has taken too long.

I really hope we can turn this around, gather the fellas once this title is mended... not sure though..


cheers

[kristorf]

Unfortunately im not very excited about friday updates anymore. Blacksix its not your fault! We really appreciate that you take time to keep us updated!! Really!! ................................


"Pictures of another game that we dont have and wont buy until the one we bought is working properly"
And something like "the testing is going well, the team is working hard to fix some newly and unforseen discovered bugs"

Something like that...
Anyway Blacksix you are only the messenger so this IS NOT personally towards you! ;)

Couldn't put it much better if I wanted to really

[Tigertooo]

Are you serious?!? More holidays?! No wonder their economy doesnt pick up with so many holidays!:-P

Unfortunately im not very excited about friday updates anymore. Blacksix its not your fault! We really appreciate that you take time to keep us updated!! Really!!
Its just that its the info you collegues at UBI give you is the same every friday...

"Pictures of another game that we dont have and wont buy until the one we bought is working properly"
And something like "the testing is going well, the team is working hard to fix some newly and unforseen discovered bugs"

Something like that...
Anyway Blacksix you are only the messenger so this IS NOT personally towards you! ;)

you forgot: "thank you for your support and patience":cool:

[Feathered_IV]

They are totally working on it. Or something else, be sure!

[Insuber]

The sarcasm of the non participants in a project is maybe justified but not helpful to anyone. One can be skeptical, delusional, tired etc etc but I don't see the added value of publishing that on this forum.
I would expect that kind of purposeless manifestation from a children unable to control his reactions, but if it was my son I would explain him two or three things about self control.

No offence intended, just my point of view on what a forum like this is for.

Cheers!

[F19_Klunk]

:)
Do u realize what you just did mate :D

[Insuber]

:)
Do u realize what you just did mate :D

:-) no, but of course I wasn't referring to your post, with which I agree totally.

Cheers!

[SiThSpAwN]

There ya go. No patch. Awesome, won't have to stay up. Already know the update news.

Which he said last week we wouldnt have a patch this week...

[Stirwenn]

Thx BS for comm... i may not waste my time hitting F5 as said above news are already knowed...
No more illusion, hope or so about the game and the team...
Good news : i can now fu.. the dual boot and let my Ubuntun breathe.

May be back in some months to check if there is stil light in rooms !

[_YoYo_]

Yes, They have holiday ;) , Today Russia plays football match with the Czech Republic on Euro 2012.

[SlipBall]

Yes, They have holiday ;) , Today Russia plays football match with the Czech Republic on Euro 2012.


Thanks for changing your avatar...like the new one!...I think a patch today late.:grin:

[Chivas]

If you start development a sim in 2004 but then start again in 2008 because what you made so far wasn't good enough it still counts as development, you think they got the development money back for the 4 years they wasted?



From 2004 to 2008 there were only a couple of guys working on SOW. Most of Oleg's crew were helping Luthier finish Pacific Fighters which had expanded from Luthier's work on a single aircraft carrier to a full addon. Then they continued work on further addons for the old IL-2 engine in those years up to IL-2 1946 release.

I was under the impression from Olegs first statements on BOB that he was going to use a new game engine, but apparently he may have been trying to wring more features out of the old engine until late in 2004 which didn't work out. This is speculation derived from a Luthiers quote in 2009, which states they decided to build a new game engine in 2005, although Luthier was busy working on Pacific Fighters at that time not BOB and may have still been living in the states. In May of 2005 Oleg said SOW was using a new game engine, but he didn't state when they decided that.

I know they were having problems changing things with the old engine because it was hard to find and change code embedded in one big mass of code. This may be part of the reason they wrote the new game engine with a Modular system. Where each major aspect like Graphics had there own module which was easier to find and change without effecting unrelated code as much. Makes me wonder if these modules cause problems themselves, like the special drivers need to combine two graphic cards, to display on scene without stutters.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

From 2004 to 2008 there were only a couple of guys working on SOW.
Bingo!

Yet that does not stop the whinners from refering to that as some sort of 'full year effort'

On that note, every software company I have delt with is allways 'working' on thier next thing.. If not just to keep current with the changes in tech

So to try and paint that inital efforts by 1C as some 12 month effort that they wasted money on is just plane ignorant and/or silly

[Chivas]

Bingo!

Yet that does not stop the whinners from refering to that as some sort of 'full year effort'

On that note, every software company I have delt with is allways 'working' on thier next thing.. If not just to keep current with the changes in tech

So to try and paint that inital efforts by 1C as some 12 month effort that they wasted money on is just plane ignorant and/or silly

I agree, unfortunately its easy to skew any information to suit a postive or negative agenda. Of course from my positive point of view I find the negative view takers much more skewed with their interpretation of information. :)

I personally love the one were people have suggested that the unfinished game engine thats being designed to continually evolve and incorportate future tech will be "outdated" by the time its finished.

[philip.ed]

I agree with the above.

My only injection would be this:

The video of SoW on the 1946 DVD showed, what appeared to be, a working game, corroborated by the showing of this version at the exhibition which Mysticpuma attended.

Now is it the work on the engine which caused the host of problems in providing minimal tangible development between 2007-2011? Because it is certainly the lack of development between the first two builds which I think causes a lot of the so called 'negativity'.

See there is a gulf between the two engines, but this may not be as clear as we would like to imagine. It's only really noticeable visually in the self-shading, and landscape geometry.

But let's further this odd scenario with the map-editor, shown in 2008:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KozuhKXGDoY

Which build is this? The geometry would suggest the engine CloD has now, however the cliffs and terrain textures aren't so different from the first build.
And I think the colours and textures look a lot better than what we have now (save for the repetition which could be tweaked).

So if this is the current build, why has the landscape taken so long to come together, and yet not provided a 3 year gulf in visual experience?



The answer is there are a lot of ways to look at it, from a positive perspective which takes the problems with the team and lack of initial resources into account, and then the other view which highlights the apparent lack of major development over the years.

I personally think it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Oleg was a perfectionist, and I think they ran out of time in producing their dream game so had to come out with something quickly: CloD.

[Chivas]

I think this statement by Oleg along time ago says alot about how features are implemented and removed or scaled down until a later date.

"Oleg: When we are designing the engine we put in anything we want or can and we're not very much afraid that there is not currently a PC that will run it well. However, when we are close to release we "cut" some features to get the right working gameplay - to get it playable with good FPS. Those features that were "cut", we will release or open later, when the new hardware will be coming. In the same way we did for the IL-2 series and it's why our old engine is still looking modern."

This is the bottom line, you build the engine to be capable of much more than computers are capable of displaying, and then turn down whatever features necessary to make the sim playable. You turn them back on again as the features are optimized or computers are more powerful. This strategy works well over the long haul, as thats the business model of a number of Sequels using the same game engine.

Unfortunately many people have ignored these statements over the years, and expected everything the developers are working on will be in the first release. This and the fact the sim had to be released unfinished has caused all the negative feedback.

Now some would blame everything on the development team not being capable of building such a complex game, there may be a small element of truth to that, but most is just a function of the scale of the project and people expectations. Its costing the investors thousands of dollars a day to keep this development going so they must see a rainbow of hope otherwise this development would have been shut down ages ago.

[philip.ed]

Very good point indeed.

However, to contradict this slightly, surely the current level of tweaking highlights that a lot of the software is not running adequately even at the more simpler levels? And the graphics re-write itself cut a lot of nice features (those beautiful cockpits and some of the nice lighting) but similarly added some improved ones such as coastlines and atmospherics.

It all gets very complicated.

But I think that quote needs to remembered. That first spitfire cockpit video showed a lot of lovely features which didn't make the game: atmospherics over the water, lovely cloud lighting (even if the clouds were poor) and those lovely cockpits which did make the game, but were 'tweaked' poorly IMHO.

I'd love someone to make that video with the current game and see the difference.

[Chivas]

Very good point indeed.

However, to contradict this slightly, surely the current level of tweaking highlights that a lot of the software is not running adequately even at the more simpler levels? And the graphics re-write itself cut a lot of nice features (those beautiful cockpits and some of the nice lighting) but similarly added some improved ones such as coastlines and atmospherics.

It all gets very complicated.

But I think that quote needs to remembered. That first spitfire cockpit video showed a lot of lovely features which didn't make the game: atmospherics over the water, lovely cloud lighting (even if the clouds were poor) and those lovely cockpits which did make the game, but were 'tweaked' poorly IMHO.

I'd love someone to make that video with the current game and see the difference.

Your right the graphic rewrite probably cut a number of eye appealing codes, to cut down on CTD's etc. My system has never crashed but most peoples systems probably weren't as optimized as my was to run the sim. The new graphic code has just been written and hardly optimized, so in the future I'm sure we will see more appealing graphics etc as the sim is optimized and computer power allows. Personally I don't like the idea of scaling down the code to suit lesser computers, as this should be an available option, but there is probably far more too to the problem than I can imagine.

[philip.ed]

What I hope for is the SDK to allow a fair amount of cosmetic modifications: notably changes to, say, the cockpits, the shaders, the landscape colours, even speedtree, in the hope that the devs can then offer these as switch able features a la RoF. Or, with the case of speed-tree, even replace what's there.

I think the team should invest in this burford holly, and replace a lot of the trees with hedgerows:

http://www.speedtree.com/trees/?tree=147&rt=0&sort=CategoryID

[Chivas]

What I hope for is the SDK to allow a fair amount of cosmetic modifications: notably changes to, say, the cockpits, the shaders, the landscape colours, even speedtree, in the hope that the devs can then offer these as switch able features a la RoF. Or, with the case of speed-tree, even replace what's there.

I think the team should invest in this burford holly, and replace a lot of the trees with hedgerows:

http://www.speedtree.com/trees/?tree=147&rt=0&sort=CategoryID

The terrain mapping tool, and SDK, should have that capablility, if they don't, they should be made to have it. The trees in COD are one of the biggest immersion killers for me. In COD many of the trees bordering roads and fields should be changed to hedgerows. As it is now flying at low level trying to navigate is very difficult. I use forest shapes, roads, and railroads to navigate. All the extra trees mask the shape of the forests and roads that make it almost impossible to navigate visually, as there are few other landmarks. Nice to see that Speedtree has a something that looks very much like a hedgerow. I'm sure the development or modders will at some point be able to replace some of the existing trees with a version of those hedgerows.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Sorry chaps, but isn't this thread supposed to be about news from Sukhoi.ru?

Please could you take the historical discussions elsewhere? Only I'm getting a bit tired of seeing new posts in this thread which have nothing to do with news from Sukhoi.ru. Including this one.

[philip.ed]

Yeah sorry. It's been a bit quiet on the Sukhoi front at present.

[Ataros]

BlackSix, COOPs is the No.1 missing feature as voted on IL2bugtracker http://www.il2bugtracker.com/projects/cod/issues?query_id=1
It was extremely popular in original Il-2 and absent now in spite of "coop" folder shown in the MP mission selection menu ( \1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\missions\Multi\Co-Op ).

COOP fix is not related to crashes, graphics, FM or AI and can be programmed by different people I guess. This will not slow down the patch development.

Could you please ask Luthier for the next info-update when we will see COOPs fixed in ClOD? I do not think he would ignore the most wanted feature by community.

Details of required COOP fixes are listed on the bugtracker.

[tintifaxl]

My system has never crashed but most peoples systems probably weren't as optimized as my was to run the sim.

What kind of ctd's has the dev team fixed then? Ah yes - workarounds for poorly optimized systems :-)

[tintifaxl]

BlackSix, COOPs is the No.1 missing feature as voted on IL2bugtracker http://www.il2bugtracker.com/projects/cod/issues?query_id=1
It was extremely popular in original Il-2 and absent now in spite of "coop" folder shown in the MP mission selection menu ( \1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover\missions\Multi\Co-Op ).

COOP fix is not related to crashes, graphics, FM or AI and can be programmed by different people I guess. This will not slow down the patch development.

Could you please ask Luthier for the next info-update when we will see COOPs fixed in ClOD? I do not think he would ignore the most wanted feature by community.

Details of required COOP fixes are listed on the bugtracker.

+1. Please B6 convey this to Luthier.

[No145_Hatter]

+2 on COOPS!!

[Insuber]

I think that coops can bring more squads into CloD. +3 for coops.

Cheers!

[alado]

+4

[BlackSix]

I want close or unstick this thread. It's not "Fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru", it's ordinary discussion.

[SlipBall]

I want close or unstick this thread. It's not "Fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru", it's ordinary discussion.


Yes...please stay in touch tho,:grin: with possibly a new locked information thread...name it "Fresh stuff from BlackSix" :-P

[BlackSix]

Maybe we'll start this thread again with hard rules? Only news from Sukhoi from any member of the forum and any discussion will be deleted. What do you think about it?

[SlipBall]

Maybe we'll start this thread again with hard rules? Only news from Sukhoi from any member of the forum and any discussion will be deleted. That do you think about it?



A good idea!... I like it

[robtek]

Do it!

[klem]

..or shift the crud to the pilots lounge or other suitable forum.

[FG28_Kodiak]

Maybe we'll start this thread again with hard rules? Only news from Sukhoi from any member of the forum and any discussion will be deleted. What do you think about it?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[CaptainDoggles]

Please do it

[JG52Uther]

We will use this thread as a discussion thread for info posted at Sukhoi. Unfortunately some people have taken it too far O/T to be saved.
New thread for Sukhoi.ru news created here.
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=433718#post433718

[SlipBall]

B6, don't be shy...be the first to use your new info thread:-P

[NLS61]

Yes unstick !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Continu0]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yak-1
Here it is important not to overdo it! Failure of systems and mechanisms is quite acceptable, but regularly falling off the plane (possibly with randomization is) will look like complete nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksix from Sukhoi
Of failures, I did not say anything yet. I do not know whether we will do it at all. Physical deterioration - increase drag airframe, engine sdohshy, Nedodaev power, the current cooling system, etc.

Does anyone understand this?

[SiThSpAwN]

It looks that he is discussing the level to which they may or may not do the damage modelling in the sequel....

[SlipBall]

I hope that the sequel does not retreat from, but expands on CEM, and the DM.

[Buchon]

They are talking about the physical weathering, they plan to have a fully weathering system in the next add-on/sequel.

Currently we have a esthetic weathering only, you can add it to your plane and then the paint will look old and the plane dirty.

In the sequel or merged add-on the game will have physical weathering so not only our paint get old but our plane too, affecting to air drag, engine, power, cooling ...

This system will give to servers admins and mission builders more wide possibilities, including use it as balance tool.

[SlipBall]

They are talking about the physical weathering, they plan to have a fully weathering system in the next add-on/sequel.

Currently we have a esthetic weathering only, you can add it to your plane and then the paint will look old and the plane dirty.

In the sequel or merged add-on the game will have physical weathering so not only our paint get old but our plane too, affecting to air drag, engine, power, cooling ...

This system will give to servers admins and mission builders more wide possibilities, including use it as balance tool.


How did you reach your conclusion?...I'm not seeing that at all in the quote's, seems to be about random failures.

[Buchon]

How did you reach your conclusion?...I'm not seeing that at all in the quote's, seems to be about random failures.

That quote is just a user being afraid that this system can be overdone and become a random failure system.

Then the poor Blacksix said that he don't know how works, he is not a coder, but that it just weathering parts.

Again time wasted in boring clarifications over wild speculation if you ask me, we also have this over here :rolleyes:



Here is the true deal where you can read about the weathering system and where I had my conclusion :

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=434301&postcount=2

[csThor]

Maps of the next project will be the size of the acc with the challenges they face. Map in WT is not a standard. If we do, for example, the "Battle of Urjupinsk", we do not need to simulate the area comparable to the south of England.

Personal opinion: Maps can't be large enough. The smaller the map the less flexible it is in its use. 1946 showed - sometimes drastically - why cutting off maps can be an awkward affair. From my POV (which is focused on history first and foremost) a map for the Battle of Moscow should be almost as large as this to incorporate all relevant areas and to allow the placement of bomber units at the right bases (without the need to have them airstart):

http://rkka.ru/maps/moscow5.jpg

[JG52Krupi]

+1 agreed

[Continu0]

+1, agreed

Imagine one day: Fly from London to Moscow (maybe with pit-stop in north africa) in a b-29 on one hughe map of europe...

[BlackSix]

Personal opinion: Maps can't be large enough. The smaller the map the less flexible it is in its use. 1946 showed - sometimes drastically - why cutting off maps can be an awkward affair. From my POV (which is focused on history first and foremost) a map for the Battle of Moscow should be almost as large as this to incorporate all relevant areas and to allow the placement of bomber units at the right bases (without the need to have them airstart):

http://rkka.ru/maps/moscow5.jpg

Yes, it's excellent image. And we would make such map about 3-4 years. It's impossible.

[SlipBall]

B6, it was said today would be the earliest day for release of the patch...is this still possible today?:grin:

[BlackSix]

B6, it was said today would be the earliest day for release of the patch...is this still possible today?:grin:

I am waiting info from Ilya as usual.

[David198502]

Yes, it's excellent image. And we would make such map about 3-4 years. It's impossible.

why not make maps like a puzzle, where all single maps could be connected to each other one day.
so that in the end, one big WWII map would be the result....
you may say im a dreamer

[csThor]

Yes, it's excellent image. And we would make such map about 3-4 years. It's impossible.

That's very understandable. However that still does not invalidate my worries about map placement and "truncated maps" which show historically rather insignificant areas while the relevant ones are being left out. In 1946 several maps suffer from this desease. :-?

As for the "small maps" issue. IMO the only useful map in CloD is the Channel map - all others (especially those "weirdos") were a waste of time and manpower. If smaller maps were asked for why weren't real-life areas chosen? For example a map confined to the Pas de Calais area with just a corner of England? Or a map of the Cotentin peninsula up to the coast of England? Just saying ...

[Continu0]

why not make maps like a puzzle, where all single maps could be connected to each other one day.
so that in the end, one big WWII map would be the result....
you may say im a dreamer

...but you´re not the only one...
I hope some day you´ll join us..
and the world will be as one...

Imagine, there is no heaven... ;)

[BlackSix]

you may say im a dreamer

Yes) We'll make it by different way in our next project. After announcement you will know about it.

[BlackSix]

That's very understandable. However that still does not invalidate my worries about map placement and "truncated maps" which show historically rather insignificant areas while the relevant ones are being left out. In 1946 several maps suffer from this desease. :-?

As for the "small maps" issue. IMO the only useful map in CloD is the Channel map - all others (especially those "weirdos") were a waste of time and manpower. If smaller maps were asked for why weren't real-life areas chosen? For example a map confined to the Pas de Calais area with just a corner of England? Or a map of the Cotentin peninsula up to the coast of England? Just saying ...

I don't know and I can't say.

[csThor]

I was speaking in a general sense. For CloD it's all over map-wise, I know. :)

[SlipBall]

I was speaking in a general sense. For CloD it's all over map-wise, I know. :)


I'm wondering why you keep posting discussion, in the sukhoi information only thread...have you noticed your posts are being deleted?

[CaptainDoggles]

Yeah I was hesitant to post in that thread as well, as earlier I'd actually reported a post or two in that thread for being completely OT. But I wasn't sure if a translation correction was considered OT or not for that thread. :confused:

Sorry in advance.

[catito14]

Yes) We'll make it by different way in our next project. After announcement you will know about it.

When you say "in our next project", are you talking about the "earliest next project" (the one you posted images) or the project that will have an alpha in 2013??

Thanks.

[SiThSpAwN]

Yes, it's excellent image. And we would make such map about 3-4 years. It's impossible.


Lets hope the ability to create maps will be in the SDK as well...

[BlackSix]

When you say "in our next project", are you talking about the "earliest next project" (the one you posted images) or the project that will have an alpha in 2013??

Thanks.

I said about our next project what will have an alpha in 2013.

Lets hope the ability to create maps will be in the SDK as well...

If we'll find free time for SDK in the nearest future. Free time is main problem.

[catito14]

I said about our next project what will have an alpha in 2013.


Thanks a lot B6! :)

[SiThSpAwN]

If we'll find free time for SDK in the nearest future. Free time is main problem.]

Yeah, tell me about it... even if you release the SDK I have to find the time with a 2 month old right now :D

[csThor]

I'm wondering why you keep posting discussion, in the sukhoi information only thread...have you noticed your posts are being deleted?

What are you talking about? This thread here has been turned into the discussion thread so I posted my comment here (edited the post in the other thread). :confused:

[JG52Uther]

Any discussion in the other thread is just going to be deleted, so please don't post anything there that is not news from Sukhoi. Use this thread.

[philip.ed]

Uther, can it not be moved to this thread? Or will a post just be binned?

[phoenix1963]

why not make maps like a puzzle, where all single maps could be connected to each other one day.
so that in the end, one big WWII map would be the result....
you may say im a dreamer

I seem to remember Oleg showing exactly this some years ago. Didn't they announce a mapping environment that could go from orbit down to village scale?

I realise much has changed since then, but surely this part of Storm of War still exists?

I sympathise with the amount of time mapmaking takes, but was there not also a video of a tool to paint the details on the map?
Getting the community involved would surely breath most life into the game?

56RAF_phoenix

[csThor]

There's now an offspring from the thread with the map discussion at sukhoi.ru and I find that one very interesting. Some of the opinions there match my own - maps are only large enough when the historically relevant bomber bases are on the map. On the CloD map 99% of the bomber bases are not on the map at all ... only Amiens - Glisy (Stab & I./KG 1), Montdidier (II./KG 1), Rosieres-en-Santerre (III./KG 1), Creil (II./KG 76), Beauvais-Tille (I./KG 76) and Cormeilles-en-Vexin (Stab & III./KG 76). There is, for example, not a single bomber base of Luftflotte 3 represented which - if we had a campaign engine - would seriously limit the campaign possibilities for a bomber pilot.

I know about the limited resources, but quite honestly with maps not encompassing the relevant bases for all types of aircraft (with the bombers having the ones farthest back) then the gameplay will always be rather limited even offline. 'cause if you don't have a base an offline campaign is pointless. ;)

[philip.ed]

I don't understand why the CloD map took at least three years to make. Obviously it's a big area, but surely WW2 maps could be used to map the location of every road, town, village etc and then just use the tool in the editor we saw to add the housing and fields...? A lot of tailoring would be needed, but with a sufficient team I don't think it's impossible, especially considering the work that was done on the Cross Channel map for Il-2.

It's probably a lot more complex to make sure everything fits, but bear in mind the BoB2 has a larger map IIRC with every road and landmark visible in 1940.

[SiThSpAwN]

I don't understand why the CloD map took at least three years to make. Obviously it's a big area, but surely WW2 maps could be used to map the location of every road, town, village etc and then just use the tool in the editor we saw to add the housing and fields...? A lot of tailoring would be needed, but with a sufficient team I don't think it's impossible, especially considering the work that was done on the Cross Channel map for Il-2.

It's probably a lot more complex to make sure everything fits, but bear in mind the BoB2 has a larger map IIRC with every road and landmark visible in 1940.

I can only imagine all the problems, issues, time and effort that goes into a map the size of the channel map, and how long it would take to build, populate and make look half way decent.... 3 years sounds pretty right from start to finish...

[klem]

I don't understand why the CloD map took at least three years to make. Obviously it's a big area, but surely WW2 maps could be used to map the location of every road, town, village etc and then just use the tool in the editor we saw to add the housing and fields...? A lot of tailoring would be needed, but with a sufficient team I don't think it's impossible, especially considering the work that was done on the Cross Channel map for Il-2.

It's probably a lot more complex to make sure everything fits, but bear in mind the BoB2 has a larger map IIRC with every road and landmark visible in 1940.

This was another of the big disappointments for me. We have a Walt Disney map whereas with old maps as guides, even templates, we could have had far more historical detail, properly placed roads etc and I doubt if it would have taken much more effort than what we have.

Perhaps he SDK will allow us to create a new map and perhaps even submit it for 1C to include in the file set.

[mazex]

There's now an offspring from the thread with the map discussion at sukhoi.ru and I find that one very interesting. Some of the opinions there match my own - maps are only large enough when the historically relevant bomber bases are on the map. On the CloD map 99% of the bomber bases are not on the map at all ... only Amiens - Glisy (Stab & I./KG 1), Montdidier (II./KG 1), Rosieres-en-Santerre (III./KG 1), Creil (II./KG 76), Beauvais-Tille (I./KG 76) and Cormeilles-en-Vexin (Stab & III./KG 76). There is, for example, not a single bomber base of Luftflotte 3 represented which - if we had a campaign engine - would seriously limit the campaign possibilities for a bomber pilot.

I know about the limited resources, but quite honestly with maps not encompassing the relevant bases for all types of aircraft (with the bombers having the ones farthest back) then the gameplay will always be rather limited even offline. 'cause if you don't have a base an offline campaign is pointless. ;)

Well, I think the only way to get maps of that size is do a very crude auto generation - or have the community do them with an SDK that allows making large maps. Maybe that would be OK? Have the relevant parts of the map detailed and autogenerate the stuff in the peripheral parts that are mostly interesting for a very small group that like to take off from a bomber base hundreds of miles from the target and actually spend hours before getting there? I do realize that there are people that like this but they can't be many percent of the target audience to make this game profitable.

But it would be nice to please both the broad and the narrow users. But that would have to involve some autogeneration that off course would have threads with people crying about roads going over rivers with no bridge etc... Roads that where built in 1990 in the game etc... I think an auto generated map would have to use OpenStreetmap or similar to be economically possible. Maybe with manual deletion of major highways around cities etc that would be to hurting for the eyes ;)

I really don't thing that the business model where the SDK only allows the making of small maps is a wise one... If you can only do maps with the available terrain and props, why not focus on releasing new game modes and features that gets packed in new "versions" that everyone wants to pay for, and let the community or third party build all the maps they can to expand the product?

And by the way as this is a theoretical discussion - any kind of SDK would be a boost for the product ;)

EDIT - a crazy idea, make a web based GUI built on OpenStreetmap where users can add or remove roads etc like in the "real" OpenStreetmap and then have an engine that "bakes" the map into a CloD map :) I have added a number of minor roads and paths into OpenStreetmap where I live and added a road into Google Maps too that was marked the wrong way... That way it would gradually get better and better and instead of whining about a missing bridge - people could add it themselves :) Just dreaming... And then have monthly builds where the new stuff gets into the baseline map.

[tintifaxl]

If we'll find free time for SDK in the nearest future. Free time is main problem.

That doesn't bode well. There will never be "free" time to do it - it has to be planned and resources allocated beforehand. But I guess project management is not MG's strength.

[ParaB]

That doesn't bode well. There will never be "free" time to do it - it has to be planned and resources allocated beforehand. But I guess project management is not MG's strength.

In Russia project manages you.

[robtek]

That doesn't bode well. There will never be "free" time to do it - it has to be planned and resources allocated beforehand. But I guess project management is not MG's strength.

At the moment MG is still firefighting the CoD engine,
planned work happens only to the people working on the sequel,
for the rest planned working will resume when CoD is running as it should.
Imo.

[SiThSpAwN]

At the moment MG is still firefighting the CoD engine,
planned work happens only to the people working on the sequel,
for the rest planned working will resume when CoD is running as it should.
Imo.

Yup, I think all bets are off till CoD is running at an acceptable level, then we might start seeing the things they planned like the SDK.

[Chivas]

At the moment MG is still firefighting the CoD engine,
planned work happens only to the people working on the sequel,
for the rest planned working will resume when CoD is running as it should.
Imo.

Totally agree, they have people working on the planned work and resources allocated accordingly, but their work can't be implemented until the other coders get the game engine sorted. If and when the game engine is sorted then features should be fixed and new features added in a more timely manor.

[furbs]

Totally agree, they have people working on the planned work and resources allocated accordingly, but their work can't be implemented until the other coders get the game engine sorted. If and when the game engine is sorted then features should be fixed and new features added in a more timely manor.

Seriously Chivas, that almost made me spit my morning coffee! :grin:

[Feathered_IV]

... but their work can't be implemented until the other coders get the game engine sorted.

And the longer the game engine goes unsorted, the more new content that goes untested and unoptimised, resulting in another godawful fiasco when they try to put it all together.

[JG52Uther]

This is still the discussion thread for fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru forum, not a general discussion thead.

[CaptainDoggles]

Has anyone else been getting a missing dependency error when they visit sukhoi.ru lately?

Warning: require_once(./includes/vba_cmps_include_error.php): failed to open stream: No such file or directory in [path]/includes/functions.php(3837) : eval()'d code on line 5
Fatal error: require_once(): Failed opening required './includes/vba_cmps_include_error.php' (include_path='.:/usr/local/share/pear') in /home/webroot/www/forum/includes/functions.php(3837) : eval()'d code on line 5

Somebody over there screwed up their server, methinks.

[SlipBall]

B6 say something...it will bring some life here :-P

[BlackSix]

Something)

[skouras]

Something)

hhahahahahahahahahahaha

[JG52Krupi]

Something)

:lol:

[SlipBall]

Something)


Is this a hint of "something" ?

[Ataros]

Please ask luthier about news on coops for tomorrow's update. This is #1 missing feature.

[fruitbat]

Something)

lol.

[BlackSix]

Please ask luthier about news on coops for tomorrow's update. This is #1 missing feature.

No change, we have time only for fix CloD:

17. Will we see the coop mission in CloD, as it was in the old "IL-2"?

Don’t understand the question. The way we see it, CoD already has Il-2-style co-op. We are certainly not planning any major changes to online modes, GUI, or anything like that.

[Skoshi Tiger]

When flying online I read the mission briefing, I use teamspeak and cooperate with the the others on my side. It is good and simple and fits in with the small amount of time I have available.

What more could a man want? (a young Pammie Anderson excluded!)

[FG28_Kodiak]

@BlackSix:
Can you ask Luthier if it's possible to use Addins for Multiplayer at the moment?
And if so, can we get a short example how to make one? Only a example like tstcampaign needed ;).
And if not is this feature added to the next regular patch?

Please, Please ...

[41Sqn_Banks]

Please ask luthier about news on coops for tomorrow's update. This is #1 missing feature.

It's clear that we won't get a GUI change, we should concentrate on workarounds.

However there is one issue that is even worse than the GUI: The AI doesn't recognize the take-off of client players unless the AI control is enabled after take-off. So the AI stays on the ground forever if a client player is within the group.

[6BL Bird-Dog]

No change, we have time only for fix CloD:

Hi Black Six,Sorry but I do not understand Luthiers statement.
Present Coop setup in the game does not work at all in anyway shape or form as the old one from the original series.
Please ask Luthier to look into this again and if he feels it does then write clear instructions on how to load /join//select /read brief/participate end the mission and view all the results as was possible before.Perhaps we are all missing something here ? The old methiod was simple and easy to use .
Customers have voiced their feelings on the apparent lack of this feature as in the last series here:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/51 & also here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28429&highlight=coop+poll
Talk on Teamspeak whilst participating in the old game and forum chat across squads indicates that although many have purchased Cliffs of Dover and have shelved it whilst they wait for the patches to fix the games functionality,they stil remain puzzeled as to the lack of a functional Coop mode as was in the previous series
Many I have spoke to,including a moderator on this forum are of the opinion that the increase in numbers playing online will only increase marginaly when the game is fixed and the Battle of Moscow sequel will lose concideable sales volume in this neck of the woods without a functional Coop interface .
Whilst the talented in the comunity have made temporary scripts as a work around for fellow users the full functionality of the old interface is sadly missed.
41Sqn Banks makes a good point on Ai behaviour too.

[BlackSix]

Our lists are filled by different demands and suggestions. I'll pass, but we don't promise anything.

[6BL Bird-Dog]

Our lists are filled by different demands and suggestions. I'll pass, but we don't promise anything.

Many thanks ,I am sure if this were rectified it can only benefit Cliffs of Dover and any further sequels:)

[Volksieg]

Please ask luthier about news on coops for tomorrow's update. This is #1 missing feature.

Why do so many people keep asking about coops? I only ask this for the simple fact that I was flying in one only the other day. :D

The feature isn't missing whatsoever.

[robtek]

It is because those folks want it exactly in the limited, easy way as it was in the old IL2.

They want the old limitations and menus, maybe some would be also happy with new menus as long as the old limitations can be implemented.

[=AN=Apache]

Please ask luthier about news on coops for tomorrow's update. This is #1 missing feature.

There will be releasing the patch tomorrow ?

[Force10]

It is because those folks want it exactly in the limited, easy way as it was in the old IL2.

They want the old limitations and menus, maybe some would be also happy with new menus as long as the old limitations can be implemented.

Yeah....and some want the co-op experience to be more convoluted and complex, that way it keeps 70% of the squads still playing 1946 and not getting more involved with COD. I mean...who wants more pilots and sales for COD, right?

Complicated isn't always better....especially with a sim that barely functions as it is.

[klem]

There will be releasing the patch tomorrow ?

Update = News

Patch = software patch

I think most of us just expect Update/News tomorrow.

[=AN=Apache]

Update = News

Patch = software patch

I think most of us just expect Update/News tomorrow.

Yes... You are right ... my fault

[6BL Bird-Dog]

It is because those folks want it exactly in the limited, easy way as it was in the old IL2.

They want the old limitations and menus, maybe some would be also happy with new menus as long as the old limitations can be implemented.

robtek. Do you have the special abilites to read minds ?:shock:
If not then how do you know what I want or anyone else for that matter ? :rolleyes:
You have obviously not read the postings about this issue very well or maybee just failed to understand them or understand the suggestions & designs that have been submitted:grin:
Other than joining a server after mission launch,which is not what coops are about or re-spawning,rearming etc
the only "limitations" are set in the mission build or host difficulty settings, so not much difference between the old and the new.
The newer options in MB such as scripting will open coop missions to more variables dependant on the builder of course.:cool:
Without 41 sqn Banks`s workaround Coops dont work at all in any way the people who use or build coop missions want or can get their head around.We are customers too and plenty have voiced this request for it to get some attention.
Read Force 10`s post as he hit the nail on the head.I know many who have Clod & have shelved it till the patches are done & they check the forum pages regular but dont post,others have not bought it yet .
The feedback I get on hyperlobby and TS is if the Coop Multi-play is not looked into and many old hands will not be buying any further sequels and these are people who have been with the iL2 series since it was released and they only fly Coops online.Case of once bitten twice shy.
Once people drift away into other activities it will be hard to get them back.
What impact that will have on sales is hard to say but I would not like to see the game narrow its client base for the sake of a litttle forsight.

[Force10]

robtek. Do you have the special abilites to read minds ?:shock:
If not then how do you know what I want or anyone else for that matter ? :rolleyes:
You have obviously not read the postings about this issue very well or maybee just failed to understand them or understand the suggestions & designs that have been submitted:grin:
Other than joining a server after mission launch,which is not what coops are about or re-spawning,rearming etc
the only "limitations" are set in the mission build or host difficulty settings, so not much difference between the old and the new.
The newer options in MB such as scripting will open coop missions to more variables dependant on the builder of course.:cool:
Without the script workaround Coops dont work at all in any way the people who use or build coop missions want or can get their head around.We are customers too and plenty have voiced this request.
Read Force 10`s post as he hit the nail on the head.I know many who have Clod & have shelved it till the patches are done & they check the forum pages regular but dont post,others have not bought it yet .
The feedback I get on hyperlobby and TS is if the Coop Multi-play is not looked into and many old hands will not be buying any further sequels and these are people who have been with the iL2 series sice it was released and only fly Coops online.
Once people drift away into other activities it will be hard to get them back.
What impact that will have on sales is hard to say.

I guarantee robtek doesn't care about anything you have mentioned. He just see's it as criticizing COD, and we can't have any suggestions that would make COD co-ops more accesible for squads. It should be possible to keep the complex options but make the UI more user friendly, but perhaps robtek realizes the coding skill needed to do this just doesn't exist at 1C. Not sure....

[Ataros]

No change, we have time only for fix CloD:
Quote:
17. Will we see the coop mission in CloD, as it was in the old "IL-2"?

Don’t understand the question. The way we see it, CoD already has Il-2-style co-op. We are certainly not planning any major changes to online modes, GUI, or anything like that.

"The way we see it, CoD already has Il-2-style co-op. "
Luthier could give that answer only if he was misinformed by someone and never tried to fly coop himself. As you personally know coop is not working in CloD. "CoD already has Il-2-style co-op" is 100% wrong as explained in the bugtracker issue and in bugreports section of sukhoi.ru (that took some community effort). It was explained about 9+ months ago and if Luthier still thinks coop works this means someone misinforms him or he ignores facts on purpose.

This is the #1 feature wanted by customers. Not one of many features, but the most voted feature.

If a company does not listen to customers it is doomed to extinction. No point to post on forums or manage the bugtracker if you do not listen. First forum becomes empty, then sequel is out with wrong/not wanted features, then sales drop to zero, then studio closes. Happens every day.

[catito14]

Why BlackSix "participates" more and gives more info in the sukhoi.ru forum than here, the 1C official forums??? (Please, don´t say "language barrier")

[theOden]

Why BlackSix "participates" more and gives more info in the sukhoi.ru forum than here, the 1C official forums??? (Please, don´t say "language barrier")

well, we are only useless westerners good for paying double price for smoke funding their actual product aimed at another market. Easy target we are.

[SiThSpAwN]

well, we are only useless westerners good for paying double price for smoke funding their actual product aimed at another market. Easy target we are.

Or maybe its because of nonsense like that....

[Insuber]

What is the current interpretation of the last oracle of Delphi sentence, re. "you don't know our inner situation?"

Ins

[SiThSpAwN]

What is the current interpretation of the last oracle of Delphi sentence, re. "you don't know our inner situation?"

Ins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ilGGP9BDZs

[Insuber]

BlacKSix how is it going the internal beta testing of the patch?

[ATAG_Bliss]

How about some clouds? ;)

[ElAurens]

We need a lot more than clouds.

We need the thing to work in it's entirety to get people to come back.

No one I know is flying CloD anymore.

Most are hoping that DCS can somehow magically come up with a fully finished WW2 sim, which is lunacy on the face of it, but they think that is more likely than CloD ever being finished.

The next patch need to be a complete game winner, or the sim is done.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Sadly, I agree with you EL. I'm absolutely fine with the dreaded delays and all that Jazz as long as the work actually remains on the project.

All we can do is wait and see I guess.

[Chivas]

I agree, if the stability, and fps issues aren't fixed soon there is no point in releasing any Sequel or MMO that has the same problems.

[AbortedMan]

Dunno about you guys, but I just bought Il-2 1946 for $10 after hearing about it for years but never playing it.

...Properly modded and configured, it still looks great, (sometimes actually comparable to CloD) has seriously over a hundred *flyable* aircraft, all properly modeled and what not, and a LOT of people still play it, mod it, make maps/missions for it, support it.

Hell I was playing at 1am PST with a bunch of people last night, that's unheard of in CloD. We were dogfighting then hobbling back to our carriers for sketchy landings...did you read that? CARRIERS! Arresting hooks, folding wings, the whole bit.

I know I'm late to the 1946 party, but it's doing a great job at tiding me over until the smell of 100 octane fuel wafts past my Spitfire cockpit.

[SQB]

Phobos's new video... just stunning. The GlowingAmraam of Il2, in conjunction with a fantastic desert mod. Fantastic!

[Feathered_IV]

I agree, if the stability, and fps issues aren't fixed soon there is no point in releasing any Sequel or MMO that has the same problems.

I heard some talk about a desert mod. Is there a linky?

[Skoshi Tiger]

What is the current interpretation of the last oracle of Delphi sentence, re. "you don't know our inner situation?"

Ins

My interpretation is that Black Six is too polite and was telling the guy that he didn't know what he was talking about.

Doesn't every culture have a similar Phrase about talking out of your rear end?

[podvoxx]

I heard some talk about a desert mod. Is there a linky?

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=67917&p=1832974&viewfull=1#post1832974
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=67917&p=1833139&viewfull=1#post1833139
Some screens.

[Feathered_IV]

Thanks! So it's a sort of reskin of the channel map. Interesting!

[jacksonparis638]

http://ihavejustbeenpaid.info/upload/158/smiler.gif


'We have released 'The Patch'' - 50/1

'Look, it's just not gonna happen.' - 100/1

Tumbleweed floats across the screen - 50/1

'We've made progress but a minor problem with decals we've had for 6 months is still bugging us' - Evens.

'We think we've got it, but we're going to do some more internal beta testing early next week' - 5/1 on.

Any takers?

And they're off!!

[ATAG_Dutch]

http://ihavejustbeenpaid.info/upload/158/smiler.gif


'We have released 'The Patch'' - 50/1

'Look, it's just not gonna happen.' - 100/1

Tumbleweed floats across the screen - 50/1

'We've made progress but a minor problem with decals we've had for 6 months is still bugging us' - Evens.

'We think we've got it, but we're going to do some more internal beta testing early next week' - 5/1 on.

Any takers?

And they're off!!

Oi!! You pinched that off me, you tea-leaf you. :lol:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?1512-We-still-wait-Fresh-stuff-from-sukhoi-ru&p=12081#post12081

[JG52Krupi]

Oi!! You pinched that off me, you tea-leaf you. :lol:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?1512-We-still-wait-Fresh-stuff-from-sukhoi-ru&p=12081#post12081

:lol: talk about being caught red handed!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Oi!! You pinched that off me, you tea-leaf you. :lol:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?1512-We-still-wait-Fresh-stuff-from-sukhoi-ru&p=12081#post12081


Yikes, Dutch! I suspect you got nipped by A Great White Shark!!!! :shock:

[ATAG_Dutch]

Yikes, Dutch! I suspect you got nipped by A Great White Shark!!!! :shock:

D'ya know, that's the first thing I thought too! :lol:

[Allons!]

BlacKSix how is it going the internal beta testing of the patch?

Its delayed as they unfortunately found out no one of the testing folks was running DX9 on their computers .. :grin::grin:

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Hehe.......that old DX9 gremlin is certainly becoming a pain in the rear!:rolleyes:

[podvoxx]

Thanks! So it's a sort of reskin of the channel map. Interesting!

V@s'OK plans to place the skins of the videos for download on sukhoi.ru, I will place a link here. More skins by this author, you can download it here:

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68028&p=1762698&viewfull=1#post1762698
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68028&p=1765262&viewfull=1#post1765262
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68028&p=1766012&viewfull=1#post1766012
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68028&p=1766110&viewfull=1#post1766110

[335th_GRAthos]

What is the current interpretation of the last oracle of Delphi sentence, re. "you don't know our inner situation?"

Ins

I wish that people abstain from putting the blame of this misery to the Greeks :(

This is too much. They already have enough blame as it is....


ROFL!
:D




~S~

[podvoxx]

V@s'OK plans to place the skins of the videos for download on sukhoi.ru, I will place a link here.

Skins from video North Africa (http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=76341)
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68028&p=1864656&viewfull=1#post1864656

Download (http://ifolder.ru/31362901)

[Insuber]

I wish that people abstain from putting the blame of this misery to the Greeks :(

This is too much. They already have enough blame as it is....


~S~

But tonight Italy avenged Greece, his sister PIIGS ... :-D

[podvoxx]

Maybe patch today (http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1865270&viewfull=1#post1865270) :)

[SiThSpAwN]

Maybe patch today (http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1865270&viewfull=1#post1865270) :)


Samogonochki brought back from vacation taiga, on the grass, 65 deg., No brandy, and not standing next to. It should be cold, warm the soul. Here's how to be a beta patch - I drink a little. How stimovsky - all
From the developer depends very much))

I am afraid, will have to drink a bit today)

Crappy google translation or interesting tease... you decide :)

[He111]

Damn DX9 again! I bet if they try to make it DX9 compatible, they'll stuff up the Dx10-11 stuff !

I mean, how far back compatible do you need to go? 8088?

.

[podvoxx]

New about scripting, very important things!
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68629&p=1865437&viewfull=1#post1865437

[Blackdog_kt]

If i'm reading this correctly, there are now methods to detect destroyed buildings? So we don't have to "hide" units inside them and make them targets, but we can target the building itself?

If this is true and if the bombers are fixed (the Ju88 now has a working gyrocompass, maybe they also fixed the bombsights but i don't have time to test it tonight), then we can start having real bomber objectives in missions. Very nice ;)

[podvoxx]

If i'm reading this correctly, there are now methods to detect destroyed buildings? So we don't have to "hide" units inside them and make them targets, but we can target the building itself?

Yes.
And localization system ingame
OnBuildingKilled(string title, maddox.GP.Point3d pos, AiDamageInitiator initiator, int eventArgInt)
OnStationaryKilled(GroundStationary _stationary, AiDamageInitiator initiator, int eventArgInt)

[Insuber]

Hi BlackSix,

Do the programmers have any particular request for us beta testers?

Cheers,
Ins

[SlipBall]

B6 anything for this Friday to tell us :)

[SiThSpAwN]

Sounds like he is waiting for the update from the top, this is from today:

I have sworn never to tell anything about the internal processes, as this leads to an effect either damaged phone, or is overly nervous reaction from the audience. Maybe Ilya illuminate some points in Friday's apdeyte if he did today will be.

[podvoxx]

Sukhoi.ru is up. In the past, after the fall of the forum out patch. :)

[He111]

Sukhoi.ru is up. In the past, after the fall of the forum out patch. :)

GREAT!! any news? :grin:

.

[kendo65]

B6 anything for this Friday to tell us :)

Probably is dependent on the quality of internet connection from Paraguay, so in short, I wouldn't bet on it.

[BlackSix]

Probably is dependent on the quality of internet connection from Paraguay, so in short, I wouldn't bet on it.

We use a carrier pigeons here, in Paraguay.
And now I'm trying to upload some screens with their help...
It's a very long-term process...
What did somebody tell about Saturday in the next thread?

[MadTommy]

We use a carrier pigeons here, in Paraguay.
And now I'm trying to upload some screens with their help...
It's a very long-term process...
What did somebody tell about Saturday in the next thread?

:grin:

[Skoshi Tiger]

we use a carrier pigeons here, in paraguay.
And now i'm trying to upload some screens with their help...
It's a very long-term process...
What did somebody tell about saturday in the next thread?

lol !!!!!!!!!!!!

[kendo65]

Nice one BlackSix.

And thanks for taking it in the spirit of humour in which it was intended. ;)

[ATAG_Septic]

We use a carrier pigeons here, in Paraguay.
And now I'm trying to upload some screens with their help...
It's a very long-term process...
What did somebody tell about Saturday in the next thread?

Great to hear from you Blacksix!

And your sense of humor remains intact. :)

Septic.

[ATAG_Doc]

Far be it from me that I point to the calendar and count that we are now 3 weeks into July and entering the fourth week. We would love an update.

[furbs]

We use a carrier pigeons here, in Paraguay.
And now I'm trying to upload some screens with their help...
It's a very long-term process...
What did somebody tell about Saturday in the next thread?

:grin:

Does anyone else think Blacksix's avatar is very apt at the moment?

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/2056/nazgul80.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2012-07-20

[kendo65]

Was going to suggest a more neutral one for him.

[CaptainDoggles]

Is Sukhoi.ru down for anyone else? I haven't been able to get on for the last week or so. Someone said it was up, but I still get a weird PHP error every time I visit.

[Troll2k]

I just went to the Sukhoi site.I do not understand a word but it loaded fine with no errors.

[skouras]

so no patch today
damn...

[banned]

so no patch today
damn...
LMFAO, Classic.

[adonys]

told you it was fishy from friday.. most probably, we won't see it until the end of this week neither.. this is getting ridiculous!

[MB_Avro_UK]

Will we all die if there is NO patch ?? :rolleyes:

[Skoshi Tiger]

Will we all die if there is NO patch ?? :rolleyes:

Patch or no patch we will certainly all die.

Though I doubt the two are related in any way, shape or form! And think it highly unlikely that it will occur simultaneously :)

[GutterRat13]

Will we all die if there is NO patch ?? :rolleyes:

I personally would rather have a late patch that has good fixes, instead of a rushed patch that just adds more bugs. At least they are still supporting this sim, unlike another non-aviation simulator that I play that I will not name that has been abandoned in an atrocious state!

Just my 2 cents

[TRIK]

It was like 2 week ago when black six posted that

[SturmKreator]

I personally would rather have a late patch that has good fixes, instead of a rushed patch that just adds more bugs. At least they are still supporting this sim, unlike another non-aviation simulator that I play that I will not name that has been abandoned in an atrocious state!

Just my 2 cents

if they do that, they will crucified himself, nobody gonna buy another game of this companny, and personally Im tired of waiting, my jostick have 1 year without use, and I was hoping this sim would be great but no....

[yobnaf]

No problem, B6. Get well soon, we shall wait für the patch because we all know that it will be an awesome piece of software :)

[kestrel79]

I think B6 said they were testing it today, then if "all goes as planned" we'd see it tomorrow. Buuuut going by the devs track record I'm going to say we won't see it until this friday/saturday at the earliest.

I'm realling itching for a final release of a new patch. I'm still flying the last release patch version from October. Can't wait to get back online!

[JG53Harti]

It was like 2 week ago when black six posted that


http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=76557&p=1873595&viewfull=1#post1873595

[Stirwenn]

Lol !
Best way to be not disappointed is to expect nothing...

promises only bind those who believe in them...

[Damixu]

Lol !
Best way to be not disappointed is to expect nothing...

promises only bind those who believe in them...

*sigh* I kinda thought this was quite legit.... I quess it was, as legit as all of the other promises from 1C...Not so much...

[Chivas]

We should have clued-in by now. Building new code and fixing code is not an exact science. There is no such thing as exact time tables or promises. The devs give us estimates and we somehow construe them to be promises. The years of waiting is frustrating, as we paid for a relatively finished sim we don't have yet, but the devs want it completed just as badly as we do, probably much more. Their jobs depend on fixing the game engine. Our rants aren't going to make it happen any sooner, or tell the devs something they don't already know.

[Skilgannon506]

Being told on Friday that "we’d like to keep it in for Monday" has more of the ring of an exact sience than an estimate to me.... maybe i'm the only one who thinks so tho:)

[Chivas]

Being told on Friday that "we’d like to keep it in for Monday" has more of the ring of an exact sience than an estimate to me.... maybe i'm the only one who thinks so tho:)



"keep it in for Monday just in case something else comes up" suggest to me that they will be testing on Monday and releasing later if it works, or later yet if it doesn't. Nothing exact about it. It could have many interpretations.

[Skilgannon506]

Aye, but here we are againb.... the old "something else" has obviously come up.....SURPRISE!! ;)

[Baron]

Personally, "keep it in for Monday just in case something else comes up" means theyv been testing it from friday up till today and are gonna release it if nothing comes up.


Not that its going to happen or anything, just saying. ;)

[PotNoodles]

"keep it in for Monday just in case something else comes up" suggest to me that they will be testing on Monday and releasing later if it works, or later yet if it doesn't. Nothing exact about it.

What do you mean if something else come up? We already know that the next patch the will not fully fix the game, so isn't it obvious some other problems already exists?

[Chivas]

What do you mean if something else come up? We already know that the next patch the will not fully fix the game, so isn't it obvious some other problems already exists?

I never said it, it was a quote, lol. The devs are talking about any major problems the new patch creates like the Tree LOD's, and your right the patch wasn't designed to fix everything. Does everything have to be spelled out for people? I feel sorry for the devs, it doesn't matter what they say it will be misconstrued in a hundred different ways.

[CaptainDoggles]

Pretty sure we're supposed to keep discussion out of this thread.

[smink1701]

IC has perfected the art of falling short of expectations. Just when you think they have exhausted every way to disappoint, they find a way. Way to go Team Luthier.

[gilmc123]

Cliffs of dover is the best.:!:

[Trumper]

Cliffs of dover is the best.:!:
Is the best what?

[gilmc123]

Is the best what?

Best flight sim. ;)

[SturmKreator]

Best flight sim. ;)

could be the best but after a ton of work, now is not a game, is a half of a game

[pstyle]

Cliffs of dover is the best.:!:

best false horizon

[ytareh]

Look guys ...IL2 has ALWAYS missed deadlines.The old saying "Two weeks , be sure" didnt gain notoriety due to Oleg's regular meeting of deadlines.They obviously released it way too early .I guess if you try not get too excited on Fridays /patch 'release' days it will be better for blood pressure!Its the only show in town as far as future WW2 flight sims are concerned .Meanwhile Im enjoying IL2 1946 with mods...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Look guys ...IL2 has ALWAYS missed deadlines.The old saying "Two weeks , be sure" didnt gain notoriety due to Oleg's regular meeting of deadlines.
Bingo!

[podvoxx]

http://il2indignant.myqip.ru/

Special forum for disgruntled game. You may report their comments and express their opinions about the game. We are waiting for the trolls and Haters. Forum has an English section. This forum-joke. :)
Praise the game is strictly forbidden!

Registration is very easy

[hc_wolf]

http://il2indignant.myqip.ru/

Special forum for disgruntled game. You may report their comments and express their opinions about the game. We are waiting for the trolls and Haters. Forum has an English section. This forum-joke. :)

I went to complain... not.. but got sidetracted by this great link on your forum :) Who can hate hot women coming out of the water???

http://news.rambler.ru/14743340/?utm_source=readme_money&utm_medium=tiser&utm_campaign=main

[SG1_Gunkan]

http://i48.tinypic.com/etfqlf.jpg

LOL, this image is so funny!

The game is not perfect, but we love it. It's better using the effort in il2bugtracker IMHO...

[Skoshi Tiger]

I can't speak Russian but I think the comment was "Check out the IL2's on that babe!"

[SlipBall]

Hi B6, will you be having something to show us for today:)

[BlackSix]

Hi B6, will you be having something to show us for today:)

We have no news today. Please continue to test the patch, it's very important now.

[Meusli]

We have no news today. Please continue to test the patch, it's very important now.

It's actually the first Friday where I do not care to have an update. I am having a ton of fun. :)

[jimbop]

Yes, it was a good patch! B6, please review FMs though. This thread promoting Spit 1 as a better alternative to 1a and 2a says it all: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33772. But please don't nerf the spit 1! It is under speed already.

[banned]

It's actually the first Friday where I do not care to have an update. I am having a ton of fun. :)
That's so true mate. Just received my new X52 Pro. It's awesome. The old one was ok but was wearing out. Just having a ball on ATAG. Hope more people fly though.
Can't wait till they put the proper patch out and not just the Betas.

[ATAG_Septic]

That's so true mate. Just received my new X52 Pro. It's awesome. The old one was ok but was wearing out. Just having a ball on ATAG. Hope more people fly though.
Can't wait till they put the proper patch out and not just the Betas.

I've a suspicion, and it's no more than a suspicion, that the next retail patch might be the last for Cliffs before they release the sequel. I just can't figure out whether that's a good thing or not though.


Septic.

[banned]

I've a suspicion, and it's no more than a suspicion, that the next retail patch might be the last for Cliffs before they release the sequel. I just can't figure out whether that's a good thing or not though.


Septic.
I reckon you might be right mate.

[yobnaf]

We have no news today. Please continue to test the patch, it's very important now.

No news are good news ! We will continue testing, master ! This sim is so awesome :)

[adonys]

aaa.. cough! cough!

what about fixing the clouds now, and getting them back to the state they were at launch at least (shadows, reflected on water, high altitude cloud layer, etc).. please?