4.12.2 de-bugging

[Pursuivant]

This is an old bug, but is there any way to make collisions with parachutes not break your plane?

Conceivably, a collision with a human could break a part off an airplane (although usually it just leaves a dead person and a big messy dent in the airplane) but there's no way that striking a parachute or its risers is going to damage a plane, much less remove a vital part.

On a larger scale, there are some ground objects that should damage a plane without breaking it. Right now, things like wires or flag poles will kill your plane, when realistically all a collision with such things should do is damage it.

[Pursuivant]

British default P-40 markings for MTO map have the fuselage roundel set too high up on the fuselage. Also, the tail flash is the Pacific theater version (navy blue and white) when it should be the typical RAF MTO/ETO red, white and blue tail flash.

[ElAurens]

As a very dedicated P40 flier I have to concur with your observation.

The P 40 has a glass jaw engine damage model, and always has, ditto the one hit damage to control functions. It is very perplexing, as other less robust allied fighters (Spitfire and Yaks, for example) do not show this.

This has been brought up many times over the years, so now I expect that:

A: The "learn to fly" excuse will be used as it often is.

B: Someone with knowledge of the DM will point out that some critical part of the engine, and or flight control system, has a big red target painted on it, or has a magic bullet magnet installed as original equipment.

C: Pilot accounts cannot be taken at face value as we all know that the men that actually went in to combat with these aircraft were just kids and knew nothing about their mounts.

D: Nothing will change.

[Tempest123]

The Mossie Mk. XVII when flown by AI pilots can't hit ships with the cannon, the AI will open fire very late ina dive with the .303s and the cannnon, but the cannon of course has a lower trajectory so it never hits the target. Building a Banff Strike Wing mission and this bug is a deal breaker for the Mossie, the FB Mk.IV with 60lb rockets is much more effective.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Aviar

I have also noticed inconsistencies when placing runway tiles over original tiles. When you run the mission several times, sometimes they appear on top of the originals and sometimes they appear under the originals. (When I say 'run the mission', I usually do so in Coop mode.)

This is not a bug. If two, or more co-planar polygons overlap, Z-buffer can not decide which should be rendered on top (obviously). This causes "shimmering" effect, or display of random polygon on top of the other(s). You would get the same effect, if you place, for example, two same building models with different texture exactly one into the other. But, for some reason, no one wants to do that...

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

This is not a bug. If two, or more co-planar polygons overlap, Z-buffer can not decide which should be rendered on top (obviously). This causes "shimmering" effect, or display of random polygon on top of the other(s). You would get the same effect, if you place, for example, two same building models with different texture exactly one into the other. But, for some reason, no one wants to do that...

Thanks for that explanation. I never said it was a 'bug'. I only described it as 'inconsistencies'.

Aviar

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

This is not a bug. If two, or more co-planar polygons overlap, Z-buffer can not decide which should be rendered on top (obviously). This causes "shimmering" effect, or display of random polygon on top of the other(s). You would get the same effect, if you place, for example, two same building models with different texture exactly one into the other. But, for some reason, no one wants to do that...

The question is what the new tiles are for. If they are only for creating completely new airfields, then it's not a bug. If they are for modifying existing airfields, then it's a bug. IMHO.

[SaQSoN]

Using game objects in s wrongful manner by mission buildiers is a bug. For which, however, developers are not responsible.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

As a very dedicated P40 flier I have to concur with your observation.

I'm glad it's not just me.

The "glass jaw" effect for the P-40 seems to carry through not just to the old "late P-40"models, but also into the somewhat newer Hawk 81/P-40C models (although the cockpit modeling is a huge improvement in the P-40C model - the P-40M's cockpit has big dark posts which really interfere with forward visibility and the gauges are hard to read).

Just now, I found myself getting shot to pieces in a P-40C by a bunch of rookie Ki-21 gunners. Single rifle caliber MG hits, usually taking hits from dead ahead so the engine block and cockpit armor is in the way of the shots, yet the P-40 consistently gets some combination of aileron, elevator and/or elevator controls destroyed, which is extremely improbable.

Additionally, I've notice that hits from head on somehow shred the rudder! Realistically, the only part of the vertical stabilizer assembly that could possible get damaged from a head-on shot is the leading edge, yet the damage model shows my entire rudder surface being shredded! Strange that a) that part gets hit as often as it does, b) that the damage model doesn't show damage to the vertical stabilizer and not just the control surfaces.

Originally Posted by ElAurens

This has been brought up many times over the years, so now I expect that:

A: The "learn to fly" excuse will be used as it often is.

I'll freely admit that I'm not a natural-born pilot. I get shot to pieces in all kinds of airplanes, so I'm something of an expert in knowing how different planes react when they got shot up.

Overall, it seems like "X controls destroyed" hits are far too common given the size of control runs relative to the rest of the plane and the fact that there were often redundant systems.

Likewise, it seems that badly damaged engines shut down way to fast. It seems strange that a machine which weighs hundreds of pounds and produces hundreds of HP of torque would instantly stop spinning, especially when the drive shaft is several inches thick and mostly encased within the engine block.

This effect is particularly pronounced in the Bf-109 where the engine will sometimes just stop when you get hit. No screech and whine from a tortured engine before it dies. It just stops.

Originally Posted by ElAurens

B: Someone with knowledge of the DM will point out that some critical part of the engine, and or flight control system, has a big red target painted on it, or has a magic bullet magnet installed as original equipment.

I wish. At least with evidence there's a chance that TD might actually fix it. I'm hoping they'll do a really close review of the P-40 series for the next patch to go with the corrected late P-40 model.

Originally Posted by ElAurens

C: Pilot accounts cannot be taken at face value as we all know that the men that actually went in to combat with these aircraft were just kids and knew nothing about their mounts.

Combat pilot's accounts will be biased by memory and lack of experience with planes other than the types they flew and fought against. I tend to trust reports by test pilots more.

But, at least we no longer have to worry about options that basically boil down to:

"This was Western propaganda; lies just put in the pilot's manual and numerous technical reports in order to give the deluded capitalist running dog stooge pilots false confidence in their completely inferior equipment."

or,

"This Soviet technical report, based on a clapped-out airplane assembled and maintained by mechanics who'd never seen the plane before, flown using 87 octane gas diluted with yak urine, is the definitive word on this plane's performance."

Originally Posted by ElAurens

D: Nothing will change.

I hope this time it will be different.

[ECV56_Guevara]

Don t know if this is a bug...
Friday nigth coop with my squad, Berlin campaign.
About 16/18 pilots online plus several AIs.
wheather: fog
Massive freeze.
We were flyng these campaing for about 20 missions or more, with 4.12/4.12.1. It wasn´t a connection issue, we all got green squares, suddendly it locks for a few pilots, then, after a few seconds, all got freeze. We guessed it was the weather and the heavy map, but it was weird, so, we have to report it, maybe it´s something related to the patch.

PD: Bomb delay not saved still present.