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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

View Poll Results: Battle of France as add on?
Yes, will buy this. 55 58.51%
OK, if for free. 21 22.34%
No, looking forward to Eastern front. 18 19.15%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-16-2012, 11:07 PM
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CaptainDoggles CaptainDoggles is offline
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Originally Posted by Fjordmonkey View Post
Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to buy it.
Wow, do you have reading comprehension issues or something? Go back over my post again and re-think your reply.

A lot of us were led to believe that it was 1C Publishing forcing Maddox Games to get the thing out the door in its current state. The understanding was that MG would work hard to fix our product and remain in our good graces. We bought the game because Oleg & Co. had earned a lot of good will from the community, supporting their game for years after release and having constructive dialogue with the community.

Contrast that to the current situation. We bought their broken game. We're closing in on a year after release, the game's still broken in multiple significant ways, and they're already talking about a sequel. This is the kind of crap that EA/DICE get lambasted for in the media with the Call of Duty series. Before BlackSix was appointed, we had to get our news secondhand from the russian forums, as if the non-Russian audience is the red-headed stepchild of flight simmers. Conversations between Developer and Community could best be described as "frosty", and at worst as "hostile".

You tell me, who's in the wrong here?

Last edited by CaptainDoggles; 03-16-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2012, 06:55 AM
Fjordmonkey Fjordmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles View Post
Wow, do you have reading comprehension issues or something? Go back over my post again and re-think your reply.
Nothing to rethink, to be honest, and no, my comprehension of english is just fine. But thank you for your insight.

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Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles View Post
A lot of us were led to believe that it was 1C Publishing forcing Maddox Games to get the thing out the door in its current state. The understanding was that MG would work hard to fix our product and remain in our good graces. We bought the game because Oleg & Co. had earned a lot of good will from the community, supporting their game for years after release and having constructive dialogue with the community.
And you still forgot the main thing when buying ANY piece of software: Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware. It's what the rest of us has learned through bitter experiences, especially those of us that have played MMO's in the past. Yes, we bought a piece of software because we wanted to support a great series. But it seems that many has forgotten the rather MASSIVE issues that the original IL2 had, and has forgotten just how 1C has done communication over the years, especially when under the wings of Ubisoft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles View Post
Contrast that to the current situation. We bought their broken game. We're closing in on a year after release, the game's still broken in multiple significant ways, and they're already talking about a sequel. This is the kind of crap that EA/DICE get lambasted for in the media with the Call of Duty series.
It's the same crap that every community has to put up with when the community is outright hostile towards anyone bringing in the news. If you constantly shoot the messengers, and that IS happening here, regardless of how you look at it, they will, eventually, stop sending messengers. It's a fairly simple prospect, wouldn't you think? Hell, I know I wouldn't bother saying anything until things were ready to go out the door in this environment, as it takes far more time and effort to try to calm the rabid hounds in here than to just leave them be.

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Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles View Post
Before BlackSix was appointed, we had to get our news secondhand from the russian forums, as if the non-Russian audience is the red-headed stepchild of flight simmers. Conversations between Developer and Community could best be described as "frosty", and at worst as "hostile".
Yes, we didn't have much news in the beginning. And we don't have much news now. But with the increased hostility from the community, I can damn well understand why there's so little communication from the Devs, as they know they'll be crucified regardless of what they do.


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Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles View Post
You tell me, who's in the wrong here?
To be honest, it's the community, and especially the VOCAL ones, that are in the wrong. Constantly attacking anything the devs say, do or don't say/don't do, personal insults and/or attacks and generally being asshats is who's in the wrong here.

So we've paid a fair bit of money on a software-product that turned out to be not all that great. Big deal. Accept the loss and move on like an adult, and notch it up as a Derp-moment, or live with the choice you've made. Besides. It will be fixed. Eventually.

Sometimes I wish I could distill patience and fill it onto tubes to sell. I'd make a killing on it.
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  #3  
Old 03-17-2012, 03:05 PM
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CaptainDoggles CaptainDoggles is offline
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Originally Posted by Fjordmonkey View Post
And you still forgot the main thing when buying ANY piece of software: Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware. It's what the rest of us has learned through bitter experiences, especially those of us that have played MMO's in the past. Yes, we bought a piece of software because we wanted to support a great series. But it seems that many has forgotten the rather MASSIVE issues that the original IL2 had, and has forgotten just how 1C has done communication over the years, especially when under the wings of Ubisoft.
So... you're saying they did a piss poor job before, so it's okay for them to continue to do a piss poor job? Oleg's not running the company any more. I have no confidence in MG's ability to deliver the product we paid for.

Quote:
It's the same crap that every community has to put up with when the community is outright hostile towards anyone bringing in the news. If you constantly shoot the messengers, and that IS happening here, regardless of how you look at it, they will, eventually, stop sending messengers. It's a fairly simple prospect, wouldn't you think? Hell, I know I wouldn't bother saying anything until things were ready to go out the door in this environment, as it takes far more time and effort to try to calm the rabid hounds in here than to just leave them be.
Go back a few years in posts and I think you'll find the atmosphere and tone on these forums to be markedly different. I used to be a fervent defender of this project. I also suggest that you have a look at some of the update posts. There are lots and lots of people saying their thank-yous to the developers, myself included. More than once I've tried to get the developers on board with the idea that if they would just be open with us, things would be better. "Hey guys, we think we fixed A B and C but we're having a problem with X, Y, and Z. Still working hard on it, sit tight." Three sentences once a week could have saved MG all kinds of headaches.

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they'll be crucified regardless of what they do.
Patently false and you know it.
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2012, 04:38 PM
d.burnette d.burnette is offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles View Post
So... you're saying they did a piss poor job before, so it's okay for them to continue to do a piss poor job? Oleg's not running the company any more. I have no confidence in MG's ability to deliver the product we paid for.

Go back a few years in posts and I think you'll find the atmosphere and tone on these forums to be markedly different. I used to be a fervent defender of this project. I also suggest that you have a look at some of the update posts. There are lots and lots of people saying their thank-yous to the developers, myself included. More than once I've tried to get the developers on board with the idea that if they would just be open with us, things would be better. "Hey guys, we think we fixed A B and C but we're having a problem with X, Y, and Z. Still working hard on it, sit tight." Three sentences once a week could have saved MG all kinds of headaches.

Patently false and you know it.
Ok so I am new to COD having just purchased and just started really reading up on these forums as it has been a while.
I am curious:
So what is Oleg doing these days - just finding out by catching up that he has left this series.
What/who is MG?

Just trying to get caught up.

Thanks,
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  #5  
Old 03-17-2012, 06:36 PM
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CaptainDoggles CaptainDoggles is offline
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Originally Posted by d.burnette View Post
So what is Oleg doing these days - just finding out by catching up that he has left this series.
There's some debate as to why he left - if he quit or if he was fired, etc. All that is known is that he is now the Chief Technical Officer of a company called Vizerra. http://vizerra.com/en/about/team

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What/who is MG?
Maddox Games

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Just trying to get caught up.
Np.
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  #6  
Old 03-17-2012, 09:39 PM
d.burnette d.burnette is offline
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Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles View Post
There's some debate as to why he left - if he quit or if he was fired, etc. All that is known is that he is now the Chief Technical Officer of a company called Vizerra. http://vizerra.com/en/about/team

Maddox Games

Np.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it! Interesting, so it is still Maddox Games developing the progrem than - that I presume would be Oleg's company?
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:58 PM
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CaptainDoggles CaptainDoggles is offline
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Originally Posted by d.burnette View Post
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it! Interesting, so it is still Maddox Games developing the progrem than - that I presume would be Oleg's company?
Maddox Games is the name of the development studio who created the original IL2. When Oleg left the company they retained the name "Maddox Games".

As far as I can tell, Oleg has no involvement with Cliffs of Dover.
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