MW50 -Secondary effects were cooling of the engine .

[41Sqn_Banks]

Originally Posted by Mustang

But with the injection of wather methanol (MW50) , the overheat takes longer time, you can run saflely 10 minutes, in any condition, that's what says the Luftwaffe.

No way. Even if MW50 is authorized for a 10 minutes duration the maximum allowed oil and coolant temperatures still apply.

For example Merlin emergency power was authorized for 5 minutes, but the oil and coolant temperature must remain in the specified limits, see: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/dowding.pdf

The time limit means that the stress on the engine is that high that it will take considerable damage even without overheat after that time.

[Mustang]

Each engine is different.

Can you explain me...

The FW 190 D9 had a tank for 39 minutes of water/ methanol.

The water methanol only work in emergency power. this is a fact.
Under 100% of throtle dont work.


The FW 190 D9 had a titanium engine ?

The answer is not the MW 50 (Water/methanol) is coolant mixture, the secondary effect is more horsepowers.

Or German engineers were crazy
And no sense a tank (MW50) for 39 minutes in FW 190 D9... or had a titanium engine?

Could resist 4 uses for 10-minutes?

What is more important for the luftwaffe ?
The damage to the engine or in dogfight the pilot's life?

The Ta 152 had MW50 and GM 1 (nitrous oxide) and can use the 2 together at the same time
The luftwaffe engineers built for the pilot a great fireball for fly ?

I see many things that only few can see.


Nobody could prove my "mistakes"
My job is done.
I do not say anything more
Good luck and enjoy the flight, IL2 is a great combat sim.

[RPS69]

I just tried it a bit. Picked a 190G6/AS and tried to climb with the MW50 at manual's speed.

Very bad results indeed...

But most surprising is that overheat message comes on 80º
Manual states, 85º as safety, 100º as practical limit, 110º engine damage.

Now, I could take big damage on an engine from overheat, but injecting the MW50 doesn't mean overheating the engine, it implies over-pressure. (overreving of it, is prevented by prop pitch)

The only reports about engine damage from MW50 use were micro cracks on piston heads. This could be because of high pressures, and more likely for the fast cooling MW50 could have on piston heads when untimely injected.

But I have never read, nor on books, nor in the web anything about engines taking on fire with MW50 use.

Now, testing a bit more, I get some uncomfortable results, being that climbing with 110% without MW50 is a bit slower, but your engine overheats later...

Something is wrong here gents... and I don't believe that the right solution should be limiting the 109 to 100% throttle when MW50 is not engaged...

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by RPS69

But most surprising is that overheat message comes on 80º
Manual states, 85º as safety, 100º as practical limit, 110º engine damage

Oil or Water temperature?

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Oil or Water temperature?

Funny question! If it was oil, it will be extremely cool!! Actually that will be Normal oil temperature, not the overheat mark.

[Mustang]

CONSTRUCTION DB 605: Cylinder barrels of steel are screwed and shrunk into the cast Silium-Gamma-alloy cylinder blocks. These dry liners project beyond block providing attachment by means of threaded rings which pull the liners against the finished face of the crankcase. This feature helped to save the weight of the studs and avoided the possibility of distortion. 3
Two inlet and two exhaust valves per cylinder operated by rocker arms directly from a single camshaft carried upon the head. Stellited valve seats, exhaust valve sodium cooled, ball joints interpose rockers and valve stems.

Forged light-alloy pistons have concave heads, each piston has a floating pin and three compression and two oil-scraper rings with one below the pin. Forked type connecting rods with serrated joints at big ends, roller bearing at big end has three tracks of 24 rollers each. Forked rod is keyed to outside of roller race, plain rod runs on lead-bronze bearing over race.

One piece forged steel crankshaft carried in seven plain lead-bronze bearings. Eight balance weights attached to crank webs, splined forward end to receive splined sleeve of reduction gear pinion.

Deep light alloy crankcase with webs at main bearings, tubular mounting at rear below crankshaft for installation of cannon which can fire through propeller shaft, light top cover.

Centrifugal supercharger on port side of engine driven through a fluid coupling by a shaft at right angles to crankshaft. This shaft is driven through bevel gears from the crankshaft, variation in propeller speed secured through variable filling of fluid coupling by two-stage engine driven pump receiving lubricating oil from the main pressure filter.

First stage delivers oil direct to coupling and second stage delivery is passed in varying proportions between crankcase and coupling by piston valve controlled by a capsule which is sensitive to inlet pressure. Second stage cuts in at approximately 5,000 ft. and full delivery occurs at approximately 11,500 ft.

Butterfly throttle which is capsule controlled regulates supercharger delivery, second throttle which is pilot operated controls air supply to engine and manifold pressure, first throttle subjected to pressure between two throttles, increased boost for take-off controlled by clockwork mechanism, mixture delivered by supercharger to looped manifold by large diameter pipe, dry-sump pressure-feed lubrication, gear type oil pumps, spray of oil directed upon reduction gears, main oil pressure line feeds crankshaft bearings, secondary line feeds supercharger fluid pump.

[Mustang]

See de red Lines

Actually, according to the German test reports I've seen, the power increase due to water ALONE was only about 4%. They did get a temp reduction at the same time but I don't recall the particulars of that so I won't throw out numbers (it was a fair amount but not dramatic). 4% isn't the type of WEP I think is being discussed here, though. Normal max power is achieved when you reach the detonation limit*. Where the real power increase comes from with water injection is extra fuel/air can be fed in until you re-reach the detonation limit. So, now you're starting combustion at about the same cylinder inlet temp as non-water but your peak combustion temp is higher because of the additional fuel/air pumped in with the water.


* rpm + compression ratio raises temp a fixed amount.
a given fuel will detonate in a particular combustion chamber and rpm at a specific temperature.