Ethics of pilots fighting for the sides in WWII

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Sure you can. That guy plotting in his basement is probably alone, probably unstable, and probably doesn't have access to chemical, biological, or radioactive weapons. Take away his conduit to those resources and the damage he can do is probably limited.

BTW....just how should we go after and find that guy plotting in his basement? Should we do nothing? Is capitulation the answer?

It's easy to criticize, much harder to come up with solutions.

Splitter

You have finally realized there is nothing much you can do against modern querilla warfare? It took long. I bet it would had helped if you first asked Germans about French underground movement and RAF, Spanish about ETA, Italians about Mafia, British about IRA, and Israelis about PLO.

You Americans have this problem that you think you can just declare a war and get what you want. However you failed in War against drugs, you failed in Vietnam, and you fail in Afghanistan and Iraq.

No, this is not "hindsight". I have said this 10 years ago. I said also it was anyway clever move by you to begin to cry for help by stating "if you are not with us, you are against us" or whatever bullshit it was. Governments around Europe felt the need to show how "terrorism is not tolerated" in addition to begin to be colonialism wannabees in the name of "international co-operation". However anyone who has read Theory of Games and Economic Behavior by John von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern knew modern querilla warfare would move to Europe as a result, and therefore EU should not participate on a fight it can't even engage with conventional warfare.

So, you got the oil and we got the xxxx. Things went as planned. Bush also got his second season as your president, weapon companies and military got more money and relevant shareholders become richer. Talk about who won the war. But who lost the war? Common people around Europe, USA, Iraq, and Afghanistan, to name a few. Yeah, that is you.

[Skoshi Tiger]

I personally can’t see this thread leading anywhere positive. It is has gone off topic and degenerated into something nasty. I think it should be locked.

That being said, I work on a daily basis with adolescents, many who come from refugee backgrounds (from all over the world). Some of these children come from families that fled the atrocities inflicted upon the Iraqi people by Saddam Hussein. In the last year or so there have been a couple of these families that have gained the confidence to return to their homeland and rejoin their people.

If anyone is the winner from the Iraqi conflict it is people like these families.

Was the conflict in Iraq worth it? Only time will tell.

Would it have been better for the Coalition to have done nothing? I doubt it. Hussein was a butcher! http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html

The worst thing that could possibly happen for Iraq would be for the Coalition to pull out before the Iraqi Government is able to maintain law and order.

With the deadline for the US withdrawal of its troops fast approaching, it will be interesting to see in two years time if the US is going to be condemned for leaving Iraq too early!

[SEE]

I never mentioned the USA nor did I advocate the use of terrorism in my post. I have poltical views but I don't believe forums are for discussing complex political issues. However, what I will say is that 'terrorist' acts are, and will continue to be carried out, in the absence of a 'conventional' military option or a recognised political platform.

We are told to be worried of a new and equally subversive 'terrorist' threat - 'Cyber Terrorism'! Iran, China, the USA, WIKI Leaks, etc, either engaging in or being victims.

So, who are these terrorists? Who are they attacking and why?
Simple questions but answering them is riddled with complexities brought about by the lies, popular misconceptions and political agendas of all involved.

You have to address the 'causes' that radicalise people and not confuse poltical agenda's with the basic instincts of self determination and its this idea that you cannot change or destroy. Rightly or wrongly, the current state of affairs in Palestine, the wests involvement in the Middle East has radicalised many Muslims - that is the point I am making and most accept that point of view.

Poltical agenda's are fluid and complex- the Taliban along with the Mujahadeen were given arms and miltary support when Russia invaded Afghanistan, Saddam HUssein was supported as 'our son of a bitch' when he engaged in war against Iran..........there are two edges to every sword and which edge you consider the most threatening depends on........?

[moilami]

Originally Posted by SEE

We are told of a new and equally subversive terrorist threat - 'Cyber Terrorism'! Iran, China, the USA, WIKI Leaks, etc either engaging in or attacked.

Is Wikileaks now considered to be a "terrorist organization"

This is going to be absurd par excellence, and I can say I have already laughed very big time as I watched some news about the panic on different governments regarding Wikileaks. They did not even know what exactly was leaked - yet panicked totally. 'nuff said.

Anyway for me it is all the same what we discuss here. I could not care less because nothing will change for good as a result.

[moilami]

Alright, as my last words I say "the coalition" would had got better results in Iraq by educating 1000 Iraquese women in Universities in USA, Sweden, and Finland in feminist studies and after that sending them back to Iraq

And as funny and ridiculous as that may sound, there is no reasonable doubts about it being by far much bigger win for the world than this "war against terrorism" xxxx.

(Note I totally deny being a feminist.)


Edit: Some may not get the strategy so I explain. The 1000 iraquese feminists would start a change where at first they would get free marriages for women. After that men would have to begin to please women in islamic countries, which would lead men begin to reinterpret the Koran in a way women want. The rest would be history.

Edit: Some may argue it is against Geneve rules of "fair play" and comparable to terrorism to send 1000 feminists to Iraq, but oh well, don't blame me, I am just specialized in creative solutions and someone asked for better solutions

[Sven]

Originally Posted by moilami

Alright, as my last words I say "the coalition" would had got better results in Iraq by educating 1000 Iraquese women in Universities in USA, Sweden, and Finland in feminist studies and after that sending them back to Iraq

And as funny and ridiculous as that may sound, there is no reasonable doubts about it being by far much bigger win for the world than this "war against terrorism" xxxx.

(Note I totally deny being a feminist.)


Edit: Some may not get the strategy so I explain. The 1000 iraquese feminists would start a change where at first they would get free marriages for women. After that men would have to begin to please women in islamic countries, which would lead men begin to reinterpret the Koran in a way women want. The rest would be history.

Edit: Some may argue it is against Geneve rules of "fair play" and comparable to terrorism to send 1000 feminists to Iraq, but oh well, don't blame me, I am just specialized in creative solutions and someone asked for better solutions

Or those 1000 Iraquese women would be jailed or killed when criticising the Koran in Iraq. I dont think Islam would modernize anywhere in the near future in the Middle East, even in my home country they wont do so, the most that is.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Sven

Or those 1000 Iraquese women would be jailed or killed when criticising the Koran in Iraq. I dont think Islam would modernize anywhere in the near future in the Middle East, even in my home country they wont do so, the most that is.

No they would not. Remember I talked about University quality feminist studies students. They would not cross the line. Or maybe some would but it would make the rest of the "sisters" even more dedicated and careful.

[Sven]

Going so softly into the Islamic culture just isnt going to help in a short while, will take at least a 100 years if you slowly and carefully want the Islam to modernize that way.

I don't really care about the people who are following the Islam in the middle east in the way they do it, let them be, the only thing that annoys me that they wont change in my country, but that has little to do with Ethics of Pilots during WW2 isnt it?

Where were we, oh yeah, shooting shutes, right, if my superior would have forbidden me to do so I wouldn't shoot anyone on a shute, clear. If however my superior allows it, my instinct would rise up and say to me, if he lands walks back to base and kills you the other day, it would be better to end his life, or shoot off both arms so he cant fly any more, but that would be too cruel. If however the pilot you just shot down was clearly over your lines I think the ground troops would enjoy his presence by putting him in jail.

[Theshark888]

Originally Posted by moilami

So, you got the oil and we got the xxxx.

Please check your facts as to where most Middle East oil goes to. If we were trying to control the ME oilfields, how come the price of fuel in the USA has doubled? How come we still pay for Iraqi oil?

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Theshark888

Please check your facts as to where most Middle East oil goes to. If we were trying to control the ME oilfields, how come the price of fuel in the USA has doubled? How come we still pay for Iraqi oil?

You didn't even got oil then? What a fail