Some freetrack questions

[albx]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I don't recall at any time reading anything from the developers of any real substance about head tracking devices, even for IL2. Other than whether they are supported or no.

The community has been the real source of information on headtrackers.

When I read BOB COD was going to support clickable cockpits I immediately had thoughts about how head tracking would be facilitated.

Regardless, the release is in March... A lot of information will be coming our way.

I also use the Freetrack, and to be honest I love it. I've got an excellent setup now and it's exceptional.

Will I be willing to give it up for TrackIR? I will if I have to, and that sums it up. Will I be happy about it? Nope.

Will I boycott BOB COD, because freetrack won't work? Are you friggin' kidding me. I wouldn't give up a world class air combat experience for any headtracker.

I did the IL2 with my left hand on a trackball for several years, before freetrack.

I'll do it again if I have to, but NO I will not spite myself because of any ill temper I have about a headtracker.

=============

I don't see how NaturalPoint has anything they can patent.

I use a trackball mouse. Mouse action can be converted for use with head movement action.

I can move the cursor anywhere I want it with the mouse, so how can such a thing be patented?

Natural point might have the ability to have their own proprietary api on the game software linked to their application software, but I can't see why a freetrack couldn't do the same.

The only issue I would think is providing the api to the developer when the game is developed for it to be included within the game at release.

+10000000000000000000

exactly my thougts....

P.S.
don't tease me about the color of my headset, ok? this was the only one i found

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

It's already available. BIS use FreeTrack API into ArmAII and Operation: Arrowhead.

It's just 6DOF coordinates, not rocket science. That's why I'm concerned about the total lack of devs feedback about that.

I don't know if you have clout with freetrack developer, but that might be the place to start. The BOB COD development team hasn't gone Gold. That should indicate the inclusion of a freetrack api in the code is still probably possible.

Seriously, I doubt Oleg would want to get involved in supporting any monopoly software when it pays him nothing to take the risk of a lawsuit.

So... I would say YES, if the freetrack api is available they should promote it to Oleg or Luthier.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I don't know if you have clout with freetrack developer, but that might be the place to start. The BOB COD development team hasn't gone Gold. That should indicate the inclusion of a freetrack api in the code is still probably possible.

Seriously, I doubt Oleg would want to get involved in supporting any monopoly software when it pays him nothing to take the risk of a lawsuit.

So... I would say YES, if the freetrack api is available they should promote it to Oleg or Luthier.

http://www.free-track.net/english/fr...chargement.php

I believe FreeTrack don't need to be "promoted". FreeTrack is open, have all tools inside, is a free software and a lot of simmers uses FreeTrack.

Into this download you have the SDK after installed - free and open source... Well, now I'm "promoting" FreeTrack, if nobody knows about it. FreeTrack is under GNU General Public License.

"FreeTrack interface
Open source interface for third party programs that provides raw point coordinates, camera resolution, raw pose and virtual pose data."

A LOT of people uses it as headtracking software. And I don't believe that 1C team, devs of major flight sims, never know about this piece of software. I'm amazed.

Well, if you not aware about FreeTrack existence, now easily can put FreeTrack native suport into IL-2:CoD now. I'm glad to help you with the link to FreeTrack download!

Thanks for the suport for FreeTrack users!!!

[julian265]

IMO we don't need special API's for head trackers - they just discourage competition, and REQUIRE the game devs to do extra work, and help prevent user-developed solutions.

The most sensible approach is to allow the six head tracking axes to be accessed just like any other axis that we use with sims.

AFTER THAT, if people want a special API so they don't have to manually assign six axes, then that's all well and good.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by julian265

IMO we don't need special API's for head trackers - they just discourage competition, and REQUIRE the game devs to do extra work, and help prevent user-developed solutions.

The most sensible approach is to allow the six head tracking axes to be accessed just like any other axis that we use with sims.

AFTER THAT, if people want a special API so they don't have to manually assign six axes, then that's all well and good.

As said:

""FreeTrack interface
Open source interface for third party programs that provides raw point coordinates, camera resolution, raw pose and virtual pose data."

With FreeTrack interface we don't need "special" API. We can use even the raw point coordinates, do whatever someone want to do.

[nearmiss]

There you have some solutions... My choice of "promotion" I stand by.

I realize the connotations from the use of the word, but it might actually take some convincing of the developer... regardless of credentials, etc.

Moscow is a long distance from France, and maybe someone doesn't take Frenchmen serious.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

There you have some solutions... My choice of "promotion" I stand by.

I realize the connotations from the use of the word, but it might actually take some convincing of the developer... regardless of credentials, etc.

Moscow is a long distance from France, and maybe someone doesn't take Frenchmen serious.

Maybe.

[Royraiden]

Im a proud Freetrack user and Im also eager to know how well the NP Trackclip Pro works with the software as my 3 point clip is giving me problems(probably cause of my crappy construction skills).On one of the first videos of the game you can see Ilya demonstrating the Track Ir device so if Freetrack is not supported at first you should know why.Anyway I guess there will be a way to make it usable with Cliffs of Dover.Do any of you use the reflector clip or whatever is called with Freetrack?It seems it would be ideal with no cables to deal with.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by SEE

There is no documentation regards the Transition Sliders ( the ones beneath the Model Point Construction Dimensions) but they can be used to set the optimum position of the LED clip with respect to the camera.

Rather than describe how it works simply do the following:-

1. Power up your LED clip, sit in your preferred position and with the Webcam facing your clip.

2. Start FT, do not press the Centre Hot Key and view the default location of the Skull. You will notice that there are two crosses, One RED the other BLUE, one attached to a fixed point in space and another affixed to the mid point of the skull.

3 Now adjust the Transition sliders in the X, Y and Z axis - the skull will move (in relation to the camera) and you can allign for a perfect default centre to the fixed X Y and Z reference lines.

Why is this included? One reason I suspect is that its bloody hard to actually get your clip in perfect centre to the field of view of the camera as you have to move your head to move the camera.....chasing ones tail never to catch it.....

Secondly, a thousand people could make a 'clip' and not one would be the same.....thats custom building at its best....


I calibrate the exact centre using the Transition Sliders (with a slight bias in the Z axis as I work close to the screen) and have perfect response in all axiz and find that I rarely have to keep re-centring my view ....try it is the best I can advise.

I think i more or less get it now...if i'm getting this right, it seems like it's a feature that lets you move the "center point" of the virtual grid that the tracking dots are superimposed on, instead of having to physically reposition the actual LEDs and/or camera or shuffle around in your seat trying to find the optimal position. If so, it's a very good feature

On another note, i think my webcam can track the IR leds from the trackclip Pro just fine if the room is dark. At least i can see 3 red dots with a cross on them in the black grid square and 3 green lights on the bottom right of the interface window, plus it shows a green icon when i minimize it to the taskbar so i guess it's working (i'm a bit unfamiliar with the interface so any corrections are welcome).

Funny thing is i didn't do any modifications at all, i didn't remove the webcam's IR filter neither did i use a floppy or piece of film as visible light filter. I just reduced the exposure to its minimum setting, disabled low light compensation and turned off the lights in the room, plus it's giving me a steady 30 FPS with zero jitter. I guess that it could work with the lights on if i used a bit of film to block out visible light, so the first obstacle is out of the way as it seems i won't have to modify it.

However, for some weird reason it doesn't register in-game. Also, the skull doesn't move around but i think i'm misunderstanding the interface here. In the trackIR software if i move around i can see a wireframe of a virtual head following my motions in the application's window (accelerated according to the profile/curves i'm using), so i was expecting the skull to do the same in the freetrack software. So, is it supposed to move when i move my head or does the red line protruding from the skull do that instead? I'm asking because it seems to be tracking fine and it also displays the position data and the accelerated data in the field below the 3d skull.

As for why it doesn't feed the data it tracks to the game, maybe it's simpler and it's just a DLL issue. I haven't uninstalled the trackIR software yet, so maybe i have to manually overwrite the existing DLL file with the one provided by freetrack.

In any case, thanks for all your help. If you could answer these last few questions i'd be grateful, otherwise i'll take it up to the freetrack forum for more detailed explanations. No worries either way however, you've all been very helpful and you got my thanks

[Royraiden]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I think i more or less get it now...if i'm getting this right, it seems like it's a feature that lets you move the "center point" of the virtual grid that the tracking dots are superimposed on, instead of having to physically reposition the actual LEDs and/or camera or shuffle around in your seat trying to find the optimal position. If so, it's a very good feature

On another note, i think my webcam can track the IR leds from the trackclip Pro just fine if the room is dark. At least i can see 3 red dots with a cross on them in the black grid square and 3 green lights on the bottom right of the interface window, plus it shows a green icon when i minimize it to the taskbar so i guess it's working (i'm a bit unfamiliar with the interface so any corrections are welcome).

Funny thing is i didn't do any modifications at all, i didn't remove the webcam's IR filter neither did i use a floppy or piece of film as visible light filter. I just reduced the exposure to its minimum setting, disabled low light compensation and turned off the lights in the room, plus it's giving me a steady 30 FPS with zero jitter. I guess that it could work with the lights on if i used a bit of film to block out visible light, so the first obstacle is out of the way as it seems i won't have to modify it.

However, for some weird reason it doesn't register in-game. Also, the skull doesn't move around but i think i'm misunderstanding the interface here. In the trackIR software if i move around i can see a wireframe of a virtual head following my motions in the application's window (accelerated according to the profile/curves i'm using), so i was expecting the skull to do the same in the freetrack software. So, is it supposed to move when i move my head or does the red line protruding from the skull do that instead? I'm asking because it seems to be tracking fine and it also displays the position data and the accelerated data in the field below the 3d skull.

As for why it doesn't feed the data it tracks to the game, maybe it's simpler and it's just a DLL issue. I haven't uninstalled the trackIR software yet, so maybe i have to manually overwrite the existing DLL file with the one provided by freetrack.

In any case, thanks for all your help. If you could answer these last few questions i'd be grateful, otherwise i'll take it up to the freetrack forum for more detailed explanations. No worries either way however, you've all been very helpful and you got my thanks

If its tracking the 3 leds and showing the 3 green lights it means it is working as it should.You should go to the profile tab and increase the sensitivity so that the skull moves when you move your head.Keep increasing until you are satisfied and be sure to increase the smoothness slider if the skull is moving too fast or it isnt consistent.The problem with the the tracking not working in-game is nothing to worry about probably you need to find a profile for that specific game so Freetrack can work with it.