British FM killing the fun of the game for allied pilots.

[Trooper117]

I think you are correct...

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by notafinger!

Because who is to say when absolute accuracy is achieved? So many sources all claiming differrent things & pilot accounts are terribly biased. However, from the data we can see some general characteristics emerge when the a/c are compared (i.e. Hurricane turning superiority, 109 dive acceleration, Spitfire/109 speed advantage at certain alts etc..). If the devs were to focus on getting the general characteristics of each type correct it would both feel historically accurate & have some balance. BoB is a very unique battle and those who have researched it would see there is near parity between forces, the Spitfire & 109 being a very close match with the Hurricane a not too distant third. Anyway, I think we can all agree the status quo of trying to get things right to the last mph while other major FM errors persist is not working.

Good quote. Bears repeating.

I have a lot of respect for the 109 and the players who pilot them. I guarantee if there's a weapon in your aircraft's arsenal, and you know how to use it, you use it. They have nothing to be ashamed or repentant of in using the aircraft they've been given to the full extent of their ability to use it.

That said, I also have a lot of respect for the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots. Night after night they go back up in the air and attempt to make the best of their aircraft in the face of, let's face it, not the best of odds. That's kind of in the spirit of the Battle of Britain, I'd say. The people who are flying these aircraft are more than likely people who love these aircraft, who have a deep affection and reverence for the people who fought the real Battle, and who desperately want to be able to touch a small part of that experience.

I think it's in everyone's best interests to have a FM that 'feels' right first and gets as close as possible to the real numbers second. That's not a formula of exclusivity. It's a weighting. When you can read an account of a real pilot, try the same manoeuver, and get roughly the result you expect to get, that's 'feel'. We don't have that yet, but I'd like to get there.

Lastly, I don't doubt that getting all these figures right in a complex simulation is not an easy job. You mess with one thing and something you never thought was connected gets thrown off. Hurricane start-up anyone? I hope that the people who have to work on the FM are getting the support and time they need.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Okay, but if nobody flew the 109 because it's "untouchable" then who would the Allied guys fly against? AI?

Well but no one is saying the 109 pilots should stop flying this sim because their ride is too good

The point I was trying to make was that every reasonable Axis pilot should be able to see and understand the frustration of the RAF pilots at current state of the FMs (which have nothing to do with Battle of Britain and so called real-life specs and for one reason or another are in huge favour of the Axis at the moment).

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

I've lost count of the number of times I spot a spitfire below me flying in a nice straight line and dive on him. I throttle down all the way to idle, because lots of cheaters fly around with their canopies open/jettisoned so that they can hear aircraft 500m behind them I wait until I get to convergence and then open fire with all guns. He bails out and instead of "S~ Nice bounce" it's always something like "109 is a joke" or "fight like a man".

You have this sort of people on both sides, I suggest you simply ignore them. Sour grapes as you say...

I'd be careful with calling the ppl with open canopies 'cheaters', not all of them enjoy the sonar capabilities... Same goes for the 109 - some folks jettison the canopy as they take off, very interesting.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Yeah, right.

You don't say?

But we're not talking about bad attitudes on all sides. We're talking about misdirected animosity directed towards 109 pilots, as if we're to blame for the crappy RAF FMs.

Well with all due respect Doggles, you really seem to have interpreted what he said in slightly wrong way, and you got very defensive again. There is no reason for that.

There is no animosity towards 109 pilots in this thread, there are just these porked RAF fms (and the OP is addressing the devs, not the general 109 flying public).

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Tell me again how you log all my sorties.

To be honest, it's pretty obvious that you're strictly LW pilot, am I right?

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Well but no one is saying the 109 pilots should stop flying this sim because their ride is too good

The point I was trying to make was that every reasonable Axis pilot should be able to see and understand the frustration of the RAF pilots at current state of the FMs (which have nothing to do with Battle of Britain and so called real-life specs and for one reason or another are in huge favour of the Axis at the moment).



You have this sort of people on both sides, I suggest you simply ignore them. Sour grapes as you say...

I'd be careful with calling the ppl with open canopies 'cheaters', not all of them enjoy the sonar capabilities... Same goes for the 109 - some folks jettison the canopy as they take off, very interesting.

Most of the pilots with open canopies I've seen do it because the dot spotting is so bad. I open the canopy all the time to get a better view.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Robo,

I think what Doggles was talking about was that most reds blame the aircraft fro not being up to scratch and consider flying a 109 "easy".

I have been on the recieving end of comments like "you only shot me down because the flight models porked!". - when the guy didnt even see me comming

I know what you mean here, Farber. There are this kind of people who don't like losing and are always trying to find some excuse for their failure (virtual death that is lol). They're equally spread on both sides, too... and it's lame. Again, ignore.. It's not easy I know and very unfair. There is lots of red (and blue) pilots who would S! you and say something like gs.

But on the other hand, when I fly the 109 and get a kill, I never know if I am really better than the other guy or if it's only mine and his ride.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by bw_wolverine

Most of the pilots with open canopies I've seen do it because the dot spotting is so bad. I open the canopy all the time to get a better view.

Yeah, I do that when I lose the 'dot' through the propeller (e.g. sun is behind me) but I don't have the ability to hear better at all! I've seen some videos on youtube where you could hear the DB 601 supercharger from miles away but that's not how my game works fortunately. I hear the hiss with canopy closed when we do close flyby, like headon pass, or more often, after I bounced him. That's why I believe it's a bit harsh to call all open canopy fliers 'cheaters'.

[Untamo]

S!

Mostly a blue pilot but have now flown a few time with Spits and Hurris on ATAG. Shot down a few 109s (and got shot in return of course ). No overheating issues, I could fly with the rated power all day long. Climb rates were enough to fight the 109 effectively. So I'll say "no". But generally all around FM improvements are ok of course.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Untamo

S!

Mostly a blue pilot but have now flown a few time with Spits and Hurris on ATAG. Shot down a few 109s (and got shot in return of course ). No overheating issues, I could fly with the rated power all day long. Climb rates were enough to fight the 109 effectively. So I'll say "no". But generally all around FM improvements are ok of course.

Very good post mate, ATAG is a good example as there is lots of good pilots on both sides. If you don't mind me asking, which types exactly did you try and did you fly in current 1.08 beta?

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Robo.

The point I was trying to make was that every reasonable Axis pilot should be able to see and understand the frustration of the RAF pilots at current state of the FMs (which have nothing to do with Battle of Britain and so called real-life specs and for one reason or another are in huge favour of the Axis at the moment).

Yeah I agree with this point. All the FMs need work.

I'd be careful with calling the ppl with open canopies 'cheaters', not all of them enjoy the sonar capabilities... Same goes for the 109 - some folks jettison the canopy as they take off, very interesting.

I dunno. To me, it is cheating. There's no way in real life you would hear an aircraft behind you with a 1000+ horsepower V-12 roaring away in front of you.

I think the 109 guys who jettison their canopies are cheating too.

I guess it's a leftover attitude from IL2FB. Guys used to tweak their config files so they could hear aircraft behind them. It was BS.