how are these 109s turns 180 with out penalties?

[vnvv_stea]

Oleg: Pilots win dogfights. Not airplanes. If a pilot is not particularly good, regardless of a plane, he’ll always have a sinking feeling that something somewhere is wrong… and not everyone is willing to admit that the fault lies within.

[vnvv_stea]

Originally Posted by Attila

in my opinion the FM and DM is more worse after the last patch! Before in a 109 you had a good chance to outclimb a Hurri and after the Hurri was stalling or turn away you had the option to dive on the Hurri! After the patch there was no chance to do that!
The DM from the Spit is overmodeled i think! I have never made it to shoot a Spits wing away, what is no problem to do it on a Hurri. The 109 is made of paper on this DM! Thats what i think about it!

+1

[recoilfx]

Originally Posted by Attila

in my opinion the FM and DM is more worse after the last patch! Before in a 109 you had a good chance to outclimb a Hurri and after the Hurri was stalling or turn away you had the option to dive on the Hurri! After the patch there was no chance to do that!
The DM from the Spit is overmodeled i think! I have never made it to shoot a Spits wing away, what is no problem to do it on a Hurri. The 109 is made of paper on this DM! Thats what i think about it!

Attila, I hope you are being sarcastic.

If the performance of 109 did worsen, then I have no idea how lot of us are still out climbing the brits

Were you flying the e3 or the e4? They have worse (e4 has the worst) climb rate, but they are still better than the brits (minus the Spit IIas). If they are on your six already, you won't be able to just climb away unless they are bad shots.

Also, remember that players' skill improve, the same people who shot you down 6 months ago must have improved their gunnery and flying skills.

[Jugdriver]

The most deadly flack seems to be friendly flack.. I have been knocked down and killed more by friendly flack than enemy flack…

The 109 has the ability to dictate the fight from an equal energy start against a Spit 1, 1a and even the Rotol (but you have to be very careful against the Rotol as a mistake will most likely get you shot down). That however is not to say that you can just jump in a 109 and whack Spits and Hurris at will. The 109 has to be flown with discipline and extended turn fights leave you extremely vulnerable. When I fly the 109 on ATAG I tend to stick with quick bounces and maintain my energy and avoid prolonged turning duels, whereas when I am flying the Rotol I try and get the 109 driver to engage in a turn fight as this levels the playing field quickly.

JD
AKA_MattE

[Force10]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Make sure the energy measureing tool you used is calibrated for the 109 variant your testing prior to testing..

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Prove that it didn't lose power or energy.

Prove it.

Otherwise, shut up.

Real classy guys. I think it safe to say we have seen the AI do all kinds of ridiculous stuff and aren't subject to blackouts or red-outs. Tell me Ace, what tool do I use to measure the triple barrel rolls that stop on a dime and reverse and barrel roll again to know that they are not right?

Gotta love the fans, always willing to help a fellow member.

[addman]

Originally Posted by recoilfx

Attila, I hope you are being sarcastic.

If the performance of 109 did worsen, then I have no idea how lot of us are still out climbing the brits

Were you flying the e3 or the e4? They have worse (e4 has the worst) climb rate, but they are still better than the brits (minus the Spit IIas). If they are on your six already, you won't be able to just climb away unless they are bad shots.

Also, remember that players' skill improve, the same people who shot you down 6 months ago must have improved their gunnery and flying skills.

Exactly! Last night on ATAG when I flew my Hurricane (no rotol!) I got really humiliated by a 109 pilot. He was yo-yoing up and down whilst I was on the deck desperately trying to meet him head-on at every pass he made. I had the biggest of luck though, I hit him in the first pass and he got a fuel leak which he didn't notice so after quite a few minutes of desperate evasive maneuvers he finally ran out of juice and took a dip in to the cold channel.

As I said before, if it's a good pilot the 109 is absolutely deadly.

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by recoilfx

I fly 109 most of the time and there is a significant loss of energy turning 180.

And yes, Spit Ia is porked. Both 109 and Spit Ia are not flying to their historical performance.

And the 50's on all the allies planes are under modelled too!!

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Jugdriver

The 109 has the ability to dictate the fight from an equal energy start against a Spit 1, 1a and even the Rotol (but you have to be very careful against the Rotol as a mistake will most likely get you shot down). That however is not to say that you can just jump in a 109 and whack Spits and Hurris at will. The 109 has to be flown with discipline and extended turn fights leave you extremely vulnerable. When I fly the 109 on ATAG I tend to stick with quick bounces and maintain my energy and avoid prolonged turning duels, whereas when I am flying the Rotol I try and get the 109 driver to engage in a turn fight as this levels the playing field quickly.

JD
AKA_MattE

I find the above pretty amusing. Not because its wrong or something like that, but because its almost word-by-word the same tactical advice as 109 pilots were given in 1940:

"Before turning fights with the Bf 109 E type, it must be noted in every case, that all three foreign planes have significantly smaller turning circles and turning times. An attack on the opponent as well as disengagement can only be accomplished on the basis of existing superiority in performance."

from tactical recommendation based on flight trials at E'Stelle Rechlin, August 1940.
http://www.kurfurst.org/Tactical_tri...g_Aug1940.html

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by vnvv_stea

Oleg: Pilots win dogfights. Not airplanes. If a pilot is not particularly good, regardless of a plane, he’ll always have a sinking feeling that something somewhere is wrong… and not everyone is willing to admit that the fault lies within.

Hehe I remember that, probably around the time the P51 was introduced with the AEP . iirc




.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

I find the above pretty amusing. Not because its wrong or something like that, but because its almost word-by-word the same tactical advice as 109 pilots were given in 1940:

"Before turning fights with the Bf 109 E type, it must be noted in every case, that all three foreign planes have significantly smaller turning circles and turning times. An attack on the opponent as well as disengagement can only be accomplished on the basis of existing superiority in performance."

from tactical recommendation based on flight trials at E'Stelle Rechlin, August 1940.
http://www.kurfurst.org/Tactical_tri...g_Aug1940.html

I will remember those words