how are these 109s turns 180 with out penalties?

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by recoilfx

Brit planes are easy to pick up. They are more stall proof and more stable gun platforms. They also have better tracers, gun sight, and rear views.

109s are harder to master. They are much more unstable; they can't follow turns; gunnery is also difficult. But if the pilot can master 109's energy potentials, they are the superior planes to fly.

Have you actually flown a Hurricane, arguably the best fighter we have available until people let us use the IIa? Unless the target is 3k above you, or you have your cockpit constantly open, you can't see the deathstar on your six.

I have hopped in a 109 and the view from that thing is 10x better than a Hurricane.

And trying to suggest that the gun sight and tracers are making up for the deficiencies against the opposing speed, dive, firepower, and damage resistance is a little disingenuous.

You CAN win against 109s in the I, Ia, and Hurricane, but unless you're pilot of the year or the 109 pilot makes several mistakes, you need specific conditions (mostly height and surprise).

Maybe that's enough for people, for the game. But I'm getting awfully tired of 109 pilots trying to assure us red pilots that there's nothing different, they're just better. At least admit you've got advantages over the red pilots. There are plenty of very good red pilots who do very well. But I seem to notice that all the people I know who don't like to play games unless they rack up a score tend to be moving to the blue side of things....

EDIT: Sorry to sound a little pissed off. It's not directed at anyone in particular. We have a very hard time dealing with 109s that are flown by average pilots, let alone skilled ones. And all we seem to get for providing the targets for the turkey shoot most of the time is some guy on teamspeak hopping into our channel to blast German march music at us? The game is hard enough. I know it's supposedly in 'good fun', but after struggling to compete and no one flying bombers because the blenheim falls apart if you SPIT at it, what chance do we have. That's why I've turned to flying escort missions almost exclusively if ANYone will fly the blenheims during the hours I'm in.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by GF_Mastiff

I just watched a 109 turn 180 degrees and not lose power or energy?!

Make sure the energy measureing tool you used is calibrated for the 109 variant your testing prior to testing..

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by GF_Mastiff

I just watched a 109 turn 180 degrees and not lose power or energy?!

Prove that it didn't lose power or energy.

Prove it.

Otherwise, shut up.

[bw_wolverine]

Also just some comments regarding the 'easy to pick up' red fighters.

How does that in any way help our cause? I didn't get the impression that online Cliffs of Dover WWII combat flight sim was a good 'casual' game. Especially when the only server(s) that really offers any hope of finding another player are ones that run full real settings.

Any advantage an easy to pick up plane might have in terms of numbers of pilots capable of flying it is tossed out the window.

So, I understand where mastiff is coming from. He's frustrated. I don't believe that the 109s keep all their energy in turns. It's a good pilot who dropped down and is using his plane correctly. There's nothing really the matter with having the 'better' plane. Just admit it. I just think a lot of 109 pilots won't admit it because they don't want to open up their kill tally to the disclaimer that that suggests. *shrug*. I'll be the first to admit that when I rarely get a IIa, my kills in it are likely 25% to 50% dependant on the machine I'm in, rather than my skill in it.

[Flanker35M]

S!

The only plane that is dangerous to the Bf109E is the Rotol Hurricane. Sissyfire I and Ia you can outdive etc. but that fat winged gremlin keeps up Osprey..if you see the tracers better it is easier to aim. And those 8 guns on RAF planes make mince meat of the 109 very quickly. Especially the MG tracers are very vague in the 109 and cannons too slow to hit anything so I would sure appreciate brighter tracers at times..

But anyways..these debates and discussions about alleged superiority of plane X or Y have been raging for ages and will never stop. Poor horse will never get rest from the eternal beating

[GF_Mastiff]

@doogles I have flown them and they don't lose any air speed; they fly through like no resistance at all to the air.

So I'm to beleave that we can make those manuavers just like in Red Tails. Such BS!

[Flanker35M]

S!

Suggested reading. Robert L. Shaw : Fighter Combat - Tactics and Maneuvering. I have the book and has nice info on preserving E and hiding E-State from the opponent.

[GF_Mastiff]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technolo...191114399.html
Might as well be flying against these.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

Prove that it didn't lose power or energy.

Prove it.

Otherwise, shut up.

This guy's favorite theme the "übermesser"
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=27028&page=3

I like Reflected's post: "typical thing in flight sims: you got shot down by a better pilot? Blame the FMs!''

[robtek]

Originally Posted by GF_Mastiff

@doogles I have flown them and they don't lose any air speed; they fly through like no resistance at all to the air.

So I'm to beleave that we can make those manuavers just like in Red Tails. Such BS!

Whatever you are using, i'd like to have the recipe

The Rotol Hurri and the 109 are so close performance-wise, that i feel very confident in both fighting the other one!

Your perception clearly seems to be biased, imo.