A request for more features to make IL-2 a better game, not just better software.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by speculum jockey

The fact that it takes over a year for people to learn that you don't need C++ to make missions speaks volumes of the DEV's willingness to share info or create documentation.

That is one way to look at it but there is a flip side to that coin..

As in it speaks volumes of the users willingness to go to the FMB, Mission & Campaign builder Discussions section and 'read' the step by step examples provided by community members.

And since there have been missions with and without C# scripts posted there for many Many MANY months, debunks your statement/notion that it took over a year for people to learn C# (PS it is C# not C++)

Some people yes.. but not all, the difference between the two most likely stemming from that willingness to 'read' thing.

In summary as Ataros pointed out, to use the community scripts (like the COOP C# script), one does NOT need to know how to program in C#, only skill required is the ability to rename the script file to match the name of the mission file.

[ElAurens]

I thank you for the help Ataros, and I salute those who understand how to do this, but I guess my point is that there should be a way to do this without having to understand C# at all, or imposing on another member to make a script.

Simple pull down menus with several choices for actions or inactions based on time/enemy contact or lack there of/player action/etc.

Is it really that difficult to make something like that? Honest question, as I said, I'm not a programmer.

As for the debate about Co-ops, I have flown a few that really worked, the first time they were run, but after that they simply became free for alls with the mission maker and his pals going off to the end objective and not following the mission at all. Meh.


What I want is something along the lines of ATAG's server, but on a smaller scale for my squad and our friends. Mission objective based, join as you want/when you want, with AIs in the air and on the ground. Missions that require team effort to complete, yet are not rigid, totally "scripted" war movies.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

That is one way to look at it but there is a flip side to that coin..

As in it speaks volumes of the users willingness to go to the FMB, Mission & Campaign builder Discussions section and 'read' the step by step examples provided by community members.

And since there have been missions with and without C# scripts posted there for many Many MANY months, debunks your statement/notion that it took over a year for people to learn C# (PS it is C# not C++)

Some people yes.. but not all, the difference between the two most likely stemming from that willingness to 'read' thing.

In summary as Ataros pointed out, to use the community scripts (like the COOP C# script), one does NOT need to know how to program in C#, only skill required is the ability to rename the script file to match the name of the mission file.

But why is that ACE? why has the community as a whole not bothered?

Because its not friendly or intuitive as it should be. That is what were asking for...to make CLOD better and more popular than now.

[SlipBall]

It basically just like Il-2 with more powerful features available for use. Any Joe who has ever made a mission in Il-2 can do the same in Clod. Coops, well that will take some trial and learned experience

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by furbs

But why is that ACE?

I already covered that in my post..

To find it, read or re-read the part where I talked about the users willingness to read (oh the irony)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

It basically just like Il-2 with more powerful features available for use. Any Joe who has ever made a mission in Il-2 can do the same in Clod. Coops, well that will take some trial and learned experience

Bingo!

[furbs]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

I already covered that in my post..

To find it, read or re-read the part where I talked about the users willingness to read (oh the irony)

ACE why are you starting another fight in this thread? Stop trolling or you will end up with another holiday.

[csThor]

The problem as I see it is simply that the CloD-FMB is both far more powerful and flexible in what it can achieve but also much more limiting when it comes to who can actually make use of its features. Building a basic mission is no more difficult in CloD than it was in Il-2:1946. But building a mission that really utilizes the possibilities CloD offers is infinitely more complex and requires to be fluid in C#, which is why few people have bothered with the FMB so far (myself included).
And before our coding gurus chime in an point me at the FMB sub-board here I want to insert that copying lines of code without a basic understanding of what they exactly do is not something I am comfortable with. Not to mention that my complete lack of understanding of C# would make troubleshooting a pretty aggravating experience (we germans have a nice phrase for that: "Stille Post" ). And to make matters even worse I have pretty high standards for missions, sometimes even bordering on "cinematic" (or should that be "pedantic"? ). For me it's not done with copying a bit of code and everything works. I may be overdramatizing things but I don't limit scripting to the aircraft part so I guess making ground objects move at a certain point, artillery beginning to shell an area or maybe even initiating a retreat are all things I (with my utter lack of knowledge) would say are jobs for a script. With missions this complex do you really think just copying some strings from the board is going to make this work? I don't think so ...

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by csThor

The problem as I see it is simply that the CloD-FMB is both far more powerful and flexible in what it can achieve but also much more limiting when it comes to who can actually make use of its features. Building a basic mission is no more difficult in CloD than it was in Il-2:1946. But building a mission that really utilizes the possibilities CloD offers is infinitely more complex and requires to be fluid in C#, which is why few people have bothered with the FMB so far (myself included).
And before our coding gurus chime in an point me at the FMB sub-board here I want to insert that copying lines of code without a basic understanding of what they exactly do is not something I am comfortable with. Not to mention that my complete lack of understanding of C# would make troubleshooting a pretty aggravating experience (we germans have a nice phrase for that: "Stille Post" ). And to make matters even worse I have pretty high standards for missions, sometimes even bordering on "cinematic" (or should that be "pedantic"? ). For me it's not done with copying a bit of code and everything works. I may be overdramatizing things but I don't limit scripting to the aircraft part so I guess making ground objects move at a certain point, artillery beginning to shell an area or maybe even initiating a retreat are all things I (with my utter lack of knowledge) would say are jobs for a script. With missions this complex do you really think just copying some strings from the board is going to make this work? I don't think so ...

Yes I see the difficulty learning C# fluently, I think it depends much on the desire to learn and having many available free hours...few of us have that luxury
http://www.csharp-station.com/Tutorial.aspx

[csThor]

Yes, well ... Problem is that I neither have many free hours nor even the basic understanding of any coding language. My brain just isn't compatible with the patterns of code making.