Quote:
Originally Posted by matsher
Thank you Baron... Artfully said.
Gentlemen... It is noted that most of you view wonderview with utter disstain.
And thats totally fine. No one is prescribing to you how you should fly the sim,
everyone finds their own comfort zone after some time. And it is not our prerogative to prescribe to others how they 'should' play...
What is important though, as IL2 lifers and experienced flyers, is to grow a new
generation of flyers and try and make it as 'easy' to get hooked on the Maddox
drug as possible... There will always be a purists way to fly as well as a casual way ... Just remember the first time you tried to fly IL2 ... Do you remember the pain and suffering you had to endure before some benevolent pilot started giving you a few tips here and a few tips there...
Now with that in mind... Can you tell me how you see my suggestion...
I have to say that XNOMAD's solution is massively simple and probably an excellent way to do it. It keeps the integrity of the cockpit view while providing some additional targeting information... Hmmm Nice one... I'll try and mock it up for you guys to see if it doesn't look too disruptive...
Please lets keep this going I want to collect the best solution for the next friday's update and hopefully present a very well thought out case to Oleg and Team.
Thanks for all the productive input, I feel we are really starting to get somewhere.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip.ed
I think that this is an excellent idea. Your pictures are great; the last one would be great for me. I don't know if I'd use it all the time, but I think it's a really neat concept. I know it's been talked of before, but I can't remember Oleg commenting on it. I'm sure it could implemented in the future...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt
Actually, that's exactly what i meant initially. I didn't mean pre-defined cameras mapped to custom keys, but custom cameras mapped to custom keys just like the ones you describe.
Example:
Let's say i fly a twin engined bomber on full difficulty settings. I use the default view from the pilot's seat in wide mode when flying. However, i need to be able to see the engine instruments from time to time and these are on the co-pilots or even the flight engineer's panel.
I move my camera so that it looks at the appropriate panel via keyboard commands, mouse or TrackIR, set the preferred amount of zoom, pick numkey6 as the key to assign it to (starboard cockpit panel, so i map it to numkey6 because it's on the right of the numeric keypad) press and hold the "save view button" and then press the key to which i want to map the view. So, if the "save view button" is control, i press ctrl+numkey6 and the view is saved to that key.
Now, whenever i want to check the instruments i simply press numkey6. If i want the view to remain there, i set it up as a "sticky" view, if i want the view to revert back to default when i release the key, i set it up as a snap view. Or alternatively, a single press of the numkey equals a snap view but a shift+numkey equals a sticky view.
I hope i cleared it up 
Also, good work on the screenshots presenting your idea. I still wouldn't use it but i believe it's useful on the grand scale of things. It would help people gradually transition from no-cockpit view to higher difficulty settings, instead of having to do it in one go. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch_851
It's an excellent idea in my opinion, but I also have a feeling that it's been asked whether this was possible before, and the answer came back in the negative.
Certainly when playing on-line, I like to go on the servers that allow 'no cockpit view', but it's a bit disorientating when using TrackIR.
The 'ghosted' cockpit would be a real boon in these situations, and as you say, still gives you a view of all the gorgeous cockpit detail.
Offline I don't think it's quite so necessary, and in IL2, the AI aren't so 'I'.
Of course, we've no idea how 'I' the AI is in SoW.
Great demo shots by the way. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by matsher
Right, onto the real reason I wanted to post. This posting thing is pretty new to me so please excuse any babbling...
I have one development question / wish / request that has always been on my mind, and I have never come across anyone else asking about it... So here it is
Full cockpit vs Wonderview:- In IL-2 there is either Full cockpit or gunsight and sky. Nothing inbetween. It would be so good if there was a third option.
To Oleg- Will/can there be a player defined option to set the in-cockpit view at 65% (or so) opacity, to make it semi-transparent?
So pilots can still have more "sky" but also can have the feeling that they are still flying in a beautifully rendered fighter plane?
The cockpit opacity settings would be amazing to have... No longer will we have to choose between dynamic gameplay (Wonderview) and immersion (In cockpit)... We could have both.
Not too sure what the technical implications of this request is but I had to ask anyway.
Please give me feedback guys, I am interested to know your opinions on this request...
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT...
Please give me some opinions and feedback.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie
It's funny I've been flying full real for years. When a subject like this comes up I think who will care but Spit VS 109s isn't the only server in Hyperlobby is it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnomad
Rather than a see through cockpit, if you want continuous target tracking, then a simpler option would be to allow the target icons to continue tracking inside the cockpit. This way you would know where the targets are. Perhaps have a target dot with the icon as well so you can line up your deflection shot.
I don't know why people fly Wonder Woman view but I'm guessing if they had the above they might stick to cockpit on settings?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qpassa
You should always fly with full real, maybe with speed bar but no icons and and always cockpit enabled, no external views
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron
On the transparent cockpit issue.
Its not everyones job here to make sure new players play the game the "right" way, it is however Olegs job to make sure as many "newbies" as possible buys SoW and more importantly, sticks with it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No601_Swallow
This is pretty much what ROF does (great boon when you're frustrated by having to peer through a letterbox). In fact ROF allows for assignable camera positions and views in-cockpit (important when the sodding compass is on the floor behind where your left buttock should be). ROF has done this all very well (in my humble). All rather spiffing.
Indeed, there a little hints of IL2 "homage" in ROF (eg. F2 for external views, F1 for internal, etc.) Perhaps Oleg, as far as cockpit views are concerned (even, for example, ROF's continuous zoom) might repay the complement!...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt
Exactly. I like fliying full switch, but in order for "new blood" to come in and stick with flight simming, we need to entice them with relaxed difficulty settings and a way to gradually transition to the higher ones, trying to smooth out the learning curve so to speak.
I always used to fly full switch, except from single player where i like playing with externals on for enjoying the visuals and snapping screenshots. I have been flying full switch since i was 12, now i'm 30. During these 18 years however, there's a whole lot of difficulty and complexity added to what "full switch" means. Flying full switch in Red Baron or Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe which i used to fly on my first 286 PC is probably like flying -20% difficulty in IL2.
I had the fortune to come into the flight sim hobby relatively early, almost from the ground floor. As PCs got stronger the simulators were able to model more complexities and evolve, the main thing being that i could gradually adjust to the changes and learn over the course of months or years...from S.W.O.T.L and Red Baron, to Aces of the Pacific and Aces over Europe, to 1942: the pacific air war, to Red Baron II/3D, European Air War and B17:the mighty 8th to IL2.
It didn't happen overnight and the reason i stuck with it is that initially, as a 12 year old kid, i could fly my Albatross or P47 over finely rendered pixelated and blocky fields and actually win in many occasions, but even if i didn't win it managed to be balanced, encouraging and alluding to what i had read in the history books. This is what draws people in initially.
Today, as a jaded veteran of the sim hobby all i think about is technical accuracy and fidelity. It's ok, we evolve in the course of pursuing a hobby. However, you can't make a convert out of a 12 year old by teaching him about the proper operation of the internal combustion engine. The way you can entice him is by suspending disbelief and making it easy for him to step into the shoes of someone else from the safety of his small, dark room that glows with the flicker of the screen and resonates with the humming of case fans at 3am, sneaking in one more sortie with the headphones on because it's Sunday night, tomorrow is a school day and mom will throw a fit if she finds out you're "playing those pretend-pilot games again".
For me, i want a SoW that is as realistic as possible. I don't want it to default to the lowest common denominator, difficulty-wise. I want to be surprised, frustrated, overwhelmed and scared the first time i fire it up, set everything to 100% and go on my first QMB sortie to sample the goods.
For the survival of flight sims however, i want an options panel that can dumb it down as far as it goes to attract that new generation of the 12 year olds of today's world...the "new blood" will take it upon themselves to start enabling the options as time goes by, learn the proper way to do things and come shoot us down in a few years  |
Quote:
Originally Posted by matsher
Mkay... So here are a couple of mock-ups of Xnomad's solution - it's
pretty simple and eloquent ... It also negates the argument about lessening
FPS with the transparent cockpit having to render more 'sky'...
I have also added some direction and lead markers...
Notice how the direction and lead markers fade the further distance
away the target gets...
Tell me what you guys reckon...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD_Titus
thankfully
with the overlay of instruments it will mean that the one handicap for open pit flyers is removed - the lack of instrumentation.
people play this game for fun, and i would hate to dictate to people that they have to only have my kind of fun.
exactly. there's a lot of open pit players out there. and quite a lot of them have flown those settings for years, because that is what they get fun out of.
why? if folk want to fly open pit and labels visible for 15km, who are you to say that it's wrong? with externals you can appreciate the models of the planes, the skins of other players the terrain at angles that you would otherwise only see very fleetingly just before you disintegrate...
the snobbishness of closed pit flyers is sometimes breathtaking.
yep.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafnir_6
+1 I use the "closed 'pit" but I can appreciate the challenges faced by newbies, since I have trained a number of them. I find training works best when you can slowly ramp up the difficulty to full real.
Cheers,
Fafnir_6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
You n00b Our internal campaigns have speedbar off, a 'HUD off' mod so we have to use temp and boost/RPM guages plus wind on the map - it's all instruments buddy. I've even changed the chat log bar to RAF language lol |
Morning chaps, Well I for one am excited, its Friday and its nearly update time.
Well that is if Mr. Maddox is going to post today after the harassment of last fridays post... I have prepared my thoughts as well as many of yours on the Wonderview vs full cockpit question... I hope Mr. Maddox can answer... I'm pretty excited about all this clearly I am new to all this posting stuff...
I will post excerps from this thread as well as the first pics I posted with the transparent cockpit (which you guys said would be technically much more difficult) and Xnomads simpler suggestion with the full cockpit -no transparency- but with plane idents and the added outlines I added...
This multi quote thing doesn't seem to include the pics... I'll find them again and put it all together.
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10-08-2010, 06:41 AM
Linear Mode
