Whats the best plane for Dog fights?

[David603]

Originally Posted by Erkki

A properly trained WW2 aviator was the "right hands". Or a good il2 pilot who actually thinks about survival, and knows team tactics(further than flying as just a pair). It has only adequate guns yep, but they are more than enough. Flown with some brains, it doesnt have to let anyone in the guns range, unless if bounced at low altitude.

The Mustang does indeed work well when flown in groups, using the proper tactics, and I would agree that a properly trained WWII fighter pilot or experienced Il2 pilot are the "right hands".

However, it is not invulnerable. A couple of years back I flew a Dora 9 as wingman to a friend of mine (I've since gone on to flying first 109s and then Spitfires), and our preferred tactics were to get a good deal of altitude and then go looking for the P51s that fly above dogfights and make diving passes on the dogfighting planes bellow, before using their speed and the cover provided by other Mustangs using the same tactics to avoid retribution.

We in turn would use the same technique to kill the Mustangs, but instead of trying to climb clear after one pass we would keep diving, while looking for other targets, then both leave the fight in a pre-arranged direction so we could cover each other in case one or other had been followed down by a Mustang. Using these tactics we on occasion racked up as many as 10 kills between us in a sortie, while remaining almost invulnerable. None of the dogfighting aircraft or the Mustangs could ever touch us while we were diving, and when one of us was followed down by a Mustang, the pilot generally wasn't expecting to be hit by the other Dora which would be travelling at a huge speed very low to the deck.

Originally Posted by Erkki

I dont know how "the mods" model the Spitfire XIV, as far as I know, it traded some qualities for the low and medium altitude speed it gained with the Griffon engine...

The Spit IXc 25lbs is crap above medium alts too. HF IXe is usually much more useful.

The Spitfire XIV as modded performs very much as you would expect the real thing to do. The version modelled is the 18lbs boost version, so it is slightly slower than the later 21lbs version, but it is still about 30mph faster than the HF MkIX at any altitude, which is very useful, while being slightly faster in a climb at most altitudes. Turn rate suffers because of the greater weight, but not so much that it isn't one of the best turning late war fighters. The increased torque makes control at low airspeeds harder, but it is still a pleasant aircraft to fly.

Compared to the Spitfire 25lbs it is only slightly faster at low altitude, so down low the more manoeuvrable IX 25lbs would probably be the better choice, but up high the XIV is hugely superior and remains on par for speed with even the P51, although slower than the Mustang III down low. Having the 21lbs version of the XIV would go someway to making up this speed deficiency.

As far as which is the most usable Spitfire in stock Il2, this in my opinion would be the LF IX. Given that it has the performance figures of an F IX, even down to the different supercharger ratios kicking in at the correct altitude for the Merlin 63 instead of the Merlin 66, it is the best allrounder, and is faster than the HF IX up to 21,000ft. It also comes with a better choice of wing types and armaments.

Originally Posted by rakinroll

For me, you are totally wrong mate. FW-190A-8 can be a good fighter at low level in the hand of a good pilot. The key lies in the rolling skill of pilot.

Did I ever say the Fw190A was not a good low level fighter in the hands of a good pilot?

I'm sure you will agree however, that part of being a good pilot of any Fw190 is not getting caught at an E disadvantage by pilots of more manouverable fighters.