Civilians?

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Was his question directed to you? No, it wasnt, so calm down and stop being so aggressive.

was the comment directed at you ? no, so calm down and limit yourself to posting about the OT in this thread

Originally Posted by philip.ed

all Andy wanted to know was what the chap felt he wanted out of the sim. Your reaction was completely over the top.

no he wasnt, in the consistent pattern of andywest's perpetual ignorance on many topics here he thought other people needed to justify to him whatever they were interested in

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Zapatista, most of the things that you are saying we 'will have' are really quite speculative.

you either havnt read what i posted or you are not familiar with the info oleg himself posted in various locations over the years. some things we know he has worked on and made significant progress on, others he would like to include at some point after release but might not be in the initial BoB game, does all that really get confusing to you ?

nothing in life is certain, not even your next breath. what many people her DO know if they have followed the development of il2 since its inception is that oleg is aiming at a "next level" sim that goes beyond aircraft shooting at each other in a stale empty lifeless world, however pretty it might look with new modern gfx, and yes there are lots of clues he has given, and hints, and hopes, and some specific facts. do i know what will be in the final release, nope, but i do like to aim for the positive picture to see many of those elements included (either working from the start, to be expanded by 3e party or later patches, or simply factored into the game and engine design so it can be worked on later on and does not require us to wait 10 years for il2-v3)

Originally Posted by philip.ed

We have seen one model of a sea-gull that for the sim (which is now quite old, so maybe obsolete...), and this accompanied with him saying that it is possible to have this implemented.

wrong ! what he has said is that he has single birds working and flocks of them flying around already, near coastal area's specifically, he even specified that for now he didnt intend to have them "inland" (not sure for that reason, hopefully we get some in fields near airfields, or even on some of the less busy grass strips), what oleg also said about it is that birdstrike was already working as a damage model.

if you'd have been paying attention or a better working memory of what you came accross you would remember this from may 2009 in oleg's own words about the seagulls

"It is animated for flight and sitting. Additional gameplay moments with collision over the cliffs. Detailisation -- you will almost never see it so close as it is in our tools in this screenshot. Anyway, detailisation is very high for hundreds of seagulls in a frame."

what could it all mean, what could it all mean, life must be such a mystery to you. i DO know what that means however, but does that guarantee the sun will rise over the horizon tomorrow as it has done every day for several hundred million years, i got no idea what seems to be the case with you and the jolly gang of depressives here, is that you are strongly arguing the sun wont rise again because nobody can proove it to you or garantee it (as if somebody had to)

Originally Posted by philip.ed

There has been no direct comment from him to say whether it will 'definately' be shipped with the initial game or whether it will made available in any updates or by third-party people.

you must live in a really confusing world

there is no certainty on ANYTHING either in life or what oleg will or will not include in BoB, you and your jolly herd of doomsayers however on many of those issues are not informed enough. and i'll do an andywest on you now: you go and prove to me by quoting clips from oleg that he is completely uncertain if birds will EVER be in BoB as object, that birdstrike is so technically difficult it would delay the whole BoB project, and that the one picture of the single bird just posted is the ONLY one he ever created while working on this, see how absurd your "andyjwest logic" is ?

you have the complete right as an individual to believe in anything or nothing, even that BoB will be a complete sterile world with a few pretty airplanes and little else, none of that bothers me, and it doesnt matter if you have been here one day, one year, or since the forum started. what DOES matter is that on many of the actual details you are either poorly informed, have a short memory, or are actually going around in a depressed state in life where even on a sunny day you only see doom and gloom. just dont post that crap here pretending it is FACT, 'cause it aint.

to be fair, at least you seem to be a little better informed then the earlier rude spotty faced teen, or the other dude (neil from "the young ones"), you seem to remember "there was something about birds" previously released by oleg, and it isnt total news to you. that actually is a sign of progress compared to many of the earlier doomsayer comments here recently

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Obviously he may not have seem every-update released-so more the reason for us to refresh his mind and help him; without getting aggressive about it and name-calling.

ahh the feigned claim of innocence, the lilly white being assaulted by evil doers in the lost corridors of the internet. again your memory fails you, nobody here is being jabbed at for no reason, read the actual thread. people asking for information and PARTICIPATING in a discussion (direction of which given in the OP) is one thing, getting an endless boring repeated interjection of uninformed negative banter trying to derail the ongoing discussion is another, particularly since it is ill informed and from somebody who doesnt actually know the detail of what we already have been told and pretend they are suddenly expert at everything BoB.

[AndyJWest]

Zapatista, since it appears that the moderators on this forum have no objections to your pig-ignorant personal abuse of anyone who points out the ludicrous nature of your postings, I assume they will have no objection to me replying in kind. Several points which are blindingly obvious to anyone who has been reading this forum for any length of time:

(1) You aren't connected with 1C:Maddox in any way, so you have no more knowledge on SoW:BoB than any others who have been following its development.

(2) When you see the least bit of detail about the project, you then assume that not only will it definitely be included, but that it will do everything you can possibly twist the words around to mean.

(3) You know absolutely nothing about computer programming (and s*d all about much else apparently).

(4) If anyone posts anything that doesn't fit in with your delusional fantasies, you respond with personal abuse rather than logical argument.

Given this, were Oleg Maddox or anyone else ask for your 'advice' on writing games software I'd assume that they were as crazy as you, and that any such project was doomed to failure. From all the evidence, Oleg & co are sane, rational human beings though, so your 'input' is wasted. Why don't you do something more useful instead, like writing graffiti on toilet walls?

[zapatista]

and for those that actually read threads like this to exchange information about oleg's upcoming masterpiece, just a few more clips of what Oleg actually DID say in the past about some of the new features we were discussing earlier in this same thread

1) further "bird" info bits oleg gave around the same time:

Yes, we can't kill using weapon. However, with mid-air collison you'll get some damage of aircraft, but no blood of the bird. The bird will dissapears after such a collison

So, say, at list this one (bird) will play some additional gameplay role when you are flying near cliffs.

Currently we have only such concept for seagulls

The type of seagull selected as the main type distributed around the world. Say in English Channel or on the great rivers of Siberia - there is just very small changes in color.

So, if there will be third party modellers that will make add-ons with "Pacific Fighters" - then this seagull will be actual there as well.

In future I promise you'll see more surprises, unexpected in fligtsim smile

and

Birds and the specific case - Seagulls over the cliffs - is a real problem of aviation. Why not to model it?
The bird's collission with aircraft happens many times per year.
Modern engines, say the new one for Sukhoi Superjet had a lot of tests for that case on a special stand.
And... you may fing a lot of photos in the internet about bird's collision with aircraft.

2) ...and when a poster commented on how good it was to get "AI animals/birds", oleg dropped the following hint about what else is around the corner

Traffic on the farm "roads" or online? wink
Or traffic of famous busses in London? wink

and back to the masters voice on birds

At the moment we have just one type of bird. And they are placed on a long distance from airfield.

In our docs we have more animals, birds. But we will model the most important currently that will go 100% in the final release. We have limits in time and I select the most important my or other developers ideas that really will play some role and not only for "WOW, they did it!" effect. The first - everything should play some role in a gameplay. Secondary - amount of types and subtypes... importance is definitely significant.

I think if the life of BoB(Sow) will be long enough, then due features of engine we may see many interesting things in flight sim, but not other genre of games.

my my, he said 100%, didnt he, DIDNT HE ! and he DOES hint/indicate seagulls will not be the only other "living creatures" we might eventually see in the sim

at the end of that same discussion thread a question was asked about other static or moving animals planned for BoB (such as cows in fields near airfields, and them scattering when a low flying aircraft approaches them), sadly the answer from saqson (oleg's side kick) said to this .... ( oleg himself did not comment further on it in that thread, which was at simhq BoB forum last year)

Animals as static objects are not planned. If not dead, certainly.

so on the one hand we have oleg indicating we might gradually get other animals/birds/fish (?) after the seaguls, but saqson's answer is a little confusing in that context

i'd say info like that is rather encouraging and uplifting, it shows vision and planning, and a lot of scope for further development.

[zapatista]

another interesting snip from oleg in another interview (russian website), was the fact vehicles/aircraft will leave tracks on the ground (only commented on afaik about grass, but presumably the same is true for dirt strips

http://spread-wings.ru/images/storie...ask_sunset.jpg

[zapatista]

and some more snips from oleg (mid 2009), this one confirming there WILL be other animals (i am still hoping for cows/sheep in fields)

In online the score for the killing people will be absent. The score system will be around the planes, ground targets as tanks, cars, ships, etc.. This is my principle that I will never change. As well as you will be not able really to kill animals in our sim and to get the score for that... but animals of different kind will be present smile

gets a bit confusing is earlier saqson stated there wont be static animals, does that mean that .... ?

[philip.ed]

Hello Zapatista (and all) and good afternoon!
Nothing is certain, no, so I wonder why you (zapatista) just re-wrote everything I said? That was exactly the point of my earlier post; to point out that although these elements may be working in the sim, there is no given that they will appear in the initial release. Yes, flocks of sea-gulls may be working; but so are driveable vehicles with a 1st person perspecitve, and IIRC the pictures of these that Oleg showed were to demonstrate what 3rd parties could do as these elements may not appear in the final release



EDIT-from your evidence though mate, clearly you are right that the seagull will be included. Thanks for proving me wrong; in this instance it was worth it! However, I apologise for not having a completely perfect memory of everything I read; most of it goes in the memory bank, but that bit of info about the 'gull was info I have not read before

2nd edit; in hindsight my original posting was maybe too harsh; I am not here to argue, but to enjoy this sim (Il-2) and hopefully SoW in the future.

[Abbeville-Boy]

the seagull announcement was huge news when it came out they will be cool

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Abbeville-Boy

the seagull announcement was huge news when it came out they will be cool

I actually can't remember it being announced to this much extent! I can only remember viewing the picture on a forum-members website/photobucket account.

If anyone can be so helpful to tell me which discussion this was from I'll look for it (a date would be helpful).

EDIT_if not, I'll look for it when I have more time

[Abbeville-Boy]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I actually can't remember it being announced to this much extent! I can only remember viewing the picture on a forum-members website/photobucket account.

If anyone can be so helpful to tell me which discussion this was from I'll look for it (a date would be helpful).

EDIT_if not, I'll look for it when I have more time

i seem to remember announce over at simHQ

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Abbeville-Boy

i seem to remember announce over at simHQ

Although I don't have an account at SimHQ, I too can remember reading about the sea-gull in a topic there.