Civilians?

[artjunky]

Are Civilians being modeled?

I made this request years ago and I was wondering if it's being implemented, in any way, in BOB. The game always felt some somewhat devoid of life. Except for soldiers running for cover (nice touch), there were really just buildings and machines.

I always thought it would be interesting to position civilians in the game. For example I thought it would be interesting to position people at railroads, markets...cars. I also thought it would be good to code the buildings as civilian vs military targets. For example: trains stations are legitimate targets whereas houses are not so much.

So, as a pilot trying not to kill civilians, as a general rule, your skills at doing this and still hitting the "target" could be evaluated at the end of the mission. If you failed and destroyed a marketplace and, say, 50 people, your score would not be as good as some pilot who hit the target and only killed one person.

For the sim, I think it would be a good way to increase ranking and skill if there is a consequence to failing to precisely bomb your targets. It would also be a disincentive to the "violence" associated with having civilians in a war game.

Also, perhaps people could be used as "cameras." So, wherever there are people or groups of people, their positions can be used as camera positions.

On the same note, I also think animals could be included for the same reasons. Animals on farms, animals in cities, animals pulling carts (cats, dogs, horses, cows, chickens).

In previous versions, the decision was made to keep civilians out of the game because they didn't want it given a violence ranking in Europe. I'd be interested to see if this idea has moved ahead since the game originally came out.

[Borsch]

You have my 100% support for the request!

Civvie traffic makes long flying more interesting, and brings the world alive.

[philip.ed]

Flying over a school and watching the children running, waving, and laughing would just be awesome. No, i am not a paedophille (or how ever it is selt )

[leggit]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Flying over a school and watching the children running, waving, and laughing would just be awesome.

omg you created the school bomb run!

btw yes great idea...it will eat into frame rates tho

[Skoshi Tiger]

The problem is that if you include objects like that there will be a certain percentage of people that will target them out of preference. It would also lead to vartiey of tasteless video's and movie sequences.

I wonder if colateral damage statistics could be included in the mission debreifings? In civilian areas a population density could be included in the mission map and an estimated casualties could be calculated without the resource hungry 3d models. If a mission requires a pin-point attack on a target we could use it to fail the mission if colateral damage exceeds a set amount.

Cheers.

[leggit]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

The problem is that if you include objects like that there will be a certain percentage of people that will target them out of preference. It would also lead to vartiey of tasteless video's and movie sequences.

I wonder if colateral damage statistics could be included in the mission debreifings? In civilian areas a population density could be included in the mission map and an estimated casualties could be calculated without the resource hungry 3d models. If a mission requires a pin-point attack on a target we could use it to fail the mission if colateral damage exceeds a set amount.

Cheers.

easy tiger its just a game.

[secretone]

I guess that's what happens when you take the most destructive war in history and then try to turn it into a form of entertainment.

The fact is that WWII was a total war and that civilians were targeted mercillessly by both sides. During the Battle of Britain many of the civilian deaths were not simply collateral damage - it was done on purpose.

I understand political correctness and economic expedience all too well but let's not sacrifice historical accuracy. This game has the potential of being a good educational tool for people if the developers decide to present the whole story of the campaign in a balanced way. This will take some courage.

[Daniël]

I don't know if firefighters are already being modelled. It would be nice to see how firefighters put out fires.

[Borsch]

Even simply civilian truck/cars/buses would be good - empty roads are immersion killer. Running for cover pedestrians would be icing on the cake...

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Borsch

Even simply civilian truck/cars/buses would be good -..

this is being modeled already. there are london double decker buses following a programmed bus route, and are even able to stop at buss stops iirc. civilian cars driving around can even park themselves. i havnt seen oleg mention it, but i presume this will also include some civilian trucks

i suspect initially this will be introduced in a limited form (low on cpu/gpu drain), but it is designed to increase in volume/complexity later

one element i hope he is including, and i believe he is ( might not be 100% visually modeled from the start, but all signs are it is incorporated in the engine), is that we will actually see supply trains and supply truck convoys carry logistical supplies for airfields and combat units at the front. if you interrupt or destroy those supplies sufficiently you will be able to affect the performance ability of the troops/airfields (in the same way that destroying fuel dumps at an airfield makes that airfield low on fuel supplies till new deliveries arrive). destroying bridges/roads will similarly affect new deliveries (with some predetermined "repair rates" added).

mig alley already had that idea implemented in some limited form 10 yrs ago, getting a more modern version of the same idea in BoB would be great !