Civilians?

[Novotny]

Well, you're possibly right, whatnot. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Oleg and his team are probably quite a bit more hardcore than your average gamer.

It bothers me that people think Oleg just muddles along with no clear idea of what he's doing; previously in this thread and others internet people make claims that something was only fixed or introduced because of their feedback.

I'm of the impression that Oleg is quite intelligent - maybe even nearly as clever as some of our forum posters. Perhaps he is quite completely aware of issues such as human-building scaling, and they get attended to as and when he and his team can. Perhaps other things have higher priorities.

Only my opinion, but I'd guess that nineteen out of twenty suggestions/demands/complaints made by gamers here have previously been considered by Oleg.

[whatnot]

Originally Posted by Novotny

Only my opinion, but I'd guess that nineteen out of twenty suggestions/demands/complaints made by gamers here have previously been considered by Oleg.

Yes, I guess he has has spent an hour or two thinking about these things as this project might be more or less his day job.

Still hundreds of brains passionate about flight sims that are thinking the game from perhaps different angles can yield something worth while. Assuming ofcourse that OM has the time and patience to read through all this crap.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by kendo65

This is definitely something that I have little doubt will play a big part in the future of this sim. I wonder though how much will be available and usable in the initial release?

i dont disagree with that.

what got my reaction was that some late arrivals in this forum seem unaware there is a whole range of elements oleg has spoken about himself that he has incorporated already, and other elements he has factored into the engine and will be developed further as the later installments of BoB/SoW get released (or will be open to 3e party folks to develop)

Originally Posted by kendo65

We are already aware that Oleg is aiming for a release later this year and that many crucial aspects of the game remain to be tuned and added. This means that of necessity some of the desirable but non-essential extras will be pushed back for inclusion after initial release.

i dont see it that way, and i believe oleg is well on track to release by his intended date. he indicated around the middle of last year that he intended to have "many 1000's of players" using BoB/SoW by the anniversary date of BoB in 2010. there are several possible specific dates for this, latest possible one being mid/late sept 2010. given he has been at the stage of integrating his completed components already in the last few months, jumping straight to beta stage with all elements working without the usual protracted alpha stage, oleg pretty much already knows what will be in the sim and what not. he wont waste adding months to develop/add some non core new feature just because of a discussion in a forum thread (as some here seem to believe might be the case).

Originally Posted by kendo65

The best examples of 'desirable but non-essential' would be things like wildlife in the fields, civilian traffic, animated civilians (farmers, pedestrians, kids playing in the back yard, etc).

we already have several of those include, no need to be modest. we will have birds flying in flocks near cliffs at the coast (and causing bird strike when hit), and hopefully (but unconfirmed) some birds in other fields. we also have some civilian road traffic, working and modeled london buses oleg already mentioned several yrs ago (and posted screenshots). in a post in this forum he also confirmed some civilian road cars were working in the sim (but didnt say if would be included at release)

what hasnt been confirmed is static animals in farmer fields (oleg did say there would be no animated horses/cattle/sheep etc at release), but presumably adding some static animals would not be a big deal and i hope will be included (to be switched of in options for those wanting to reduce fps drain, just as you can do in rowan's BoB now)

oleg also didnt confirm or comment if there would be "farmer driving tractor in fields", or "civilian truck on roads", personally i think that is very simple to add and would take one of his programmers 20 min. you just set the tractor/ truck to drive at a preset loop on the road or field, and thats it (maybe synced to server time, so the farmer dont work his fields at night)

adding individual civilians walking around villages/towns is a bit much to ask for now, BUT we will have the equivalent on airfields, by having some form of animation of refueling/rearming etc on airfields, AND fire and ambulance trucks (presumably not ghost driven, so there has to be a figure inside). adding some static civilians in some parts of the map, on bridges, next to rivers, or passengers on a bus etc is not that big of a leap. we already have in il2 a troop truck with simple animated figures jumping out of it when strafed, is it that big of a leap of faith to have a more modern and better detailed version of a similar feature in 2010 BoB, i dont think it is ! will it be included at release ? no idea, but to me it is a very obvious possibility to be expanded on (either by oleg or 3e party)

since oleg already stated he hoped to include at release the ability to control at least a single vehicle, and probably a ship/boat at release or soon thereafter, then these vehicles/ships have to include a modeled driver/pilot. so again it emphasizes oleg's recent efforts in working on that aspect (as can be clearly seen in his detailed human figures, and a recent video of animated skeletal pilot entering/exiting an aircraft). will this be a simple animation ? will this be under player control in 1e or 3e person ? no idea, but to pretend it isnt part of BoB's future is just silly, it obviously is in some form.

i think some people here (not you, but people like andywest) should go and refresh there mind, or find out for the first time, on the extensive comments oleg himself has previously made on this over the years, much of which has been confirmed by development screen shots and video's.

and like another recent poster stated, these forums, particularly the ones oleg and Co read themselves, are as much a brainstorming resource and a place for idea's as they are a location for general fan/user discussion, so think big, and come up with suggestions for further improvements

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by Novotny

It bothers me that people think Oleg just muddles along with no clear idea of what he's doing; previously in this thread and others internet people make claims that something was only fixed or introduced because of their feedback.

Perhaps he is quite completely aware of issues such as human-building scaling, and they get attended to as and when he and his team can. Perhaps other things have higher priorities.

Only my opinion, but I'd guess that nineteen out of twenty suggestions/demands/complaints made by gamers here have previously been considered by Oleg.

Originally Posted by whatnot

How I see the purpose of these forums when it comes to ideas is that the sim community (pretty hc simmers here on average I'd assume) shout out ideas they have and then the development crew are the ones who actually pick'n'mix what is feasible and suits the title / franchise.

So my perception in a nutshell: open brainstorming here on the forum, validation / feasibility analysis by the Maddox crew who actually has a say on things.

I don't see the chat on this forum as being primarily directed at the enlightenment of Oleg and the developers (except in the few cases they specifically ask for help or feedback).

I think the main issue is that we're all to a large degree still in the dark about what the game will be like, plus we're all extremely interested in the possibilities. What this leads to is speculation, wishes and opinions.

Most of the time the issues we direct at Oleg are questions about whether some feature we think would be excellent will be included. But this only comes about because Oleg plays his cards close to his chest. Most of the time I think people are looking for reassurance from Oleg that their particular preferences will be included, NOT trying to say that they know better than the developers. edit:(We tend to argue with each other about things that are uncertain - i don't recall too many of us telling Oleg directly that his plans sucked..! Ok, there was the furore over the early WIP landscape...I'll be charitable and call that a 'misunderstanding' ...and stop digging holes for myself... )

In the absence of full and complete info about the game from the man building it all we can do is debate, argue and talk amongst ourselves.

Sometimes it's pointless and ends up going round in circles because the only person who can really say YES or NO usually has better things to do.

Edit #2: just read the SOW AI Crew Members thread. I take it all back. We are a bunch of smart-arses who think we know best

[philip.ed]

Zapatista, most of the things that you are saying we 'will have' are really quite speculative. We have seen one model of a sea-gull that for the sim (which is now quite old, so maybe obsolete...), and this accompanied with him saying that it is possible to have this implemented. There has been no direct comment from him to say whether it will 'definately' be shipped with the initial game or whether it will made available in any updates or by third-party people.
Honestly, you are over-reacting to Andy's comments. If you feel he hasn't been here long enough and is 'naive' to all of this, then you need to grow up a bit. Obviously he may not have seem every-update released-so more the reason for us to refresh his mind and help him; without getting aggressive about it and name-calling.

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by zapatista

what an absolute load of drivel, you weirdo !

where in the dark recesses of your somber mind do you now start to believe people here have to explain and justify ANYTHING to you about what THEY want to have included in oleg's flightsim project ?

Was his question directed to you? No, it wasnt, so calm down and stop being so aggressive. Name calling won't get you anywhere; all Andy wanted to know was what the chap felt he wanted out of the sim. Your reaction was completely over the top.

[AndyJWest]

And perhaps Zapatista should stop assuming that the only people who read this forum are those that post on it. Until 1C:Maddox started giving regular details about SoW:BoB, and Team Daedolos started reporting on IL-2 patches, there was little on the forum worth the bother of commenting on, at least in my opinion.

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

And perhaps Zapatista should stop assuming that the only people who read this forum are those that post on it. Until 1C:Maddox started giving regular details about SoW:BoB, and Team Daedolos started reporting on IL-2 patches, there was little on the forum worth the bother of commenting on, at least in my opinion.

Exactly; just because you joined at a certain date it doesn't mean that you haven't been watching the forum beforehand

[johnnypfft]

a seagull

[philip.ed]

That was the pic I'd seen Although I can't recall it being posted on the forum.

Whether or not we'll see it in the game is anyones guess