Friday 2010-10-22 Dev. update and Discussion

[Raggz]

Holy crap, stunning cockpits and artwork. Excellent Oleg

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Blackdog, well said. Nothing to add there. I am used to studying procedures before doing so if SoW would require it, no problem Be it in a later addition or 3rd party work does not matter. I am sure SoW will make us all re-learn quite a bit of things

It's obvious that systems are going to be modeled much better in SoW. If you want to have to pay attention to the things involved in complex engine management, you are largely going to have that opportunity.

On the other hand, if there are "features" that you don't want to use, you can switch them off.

For example, when I started playing IL-2, I turned off over heat and complex engine management. I had to get the feel of the flight models and controls for THIS sim and that took nearly 100% of my concentration. I didn't want to have to worry about overheating my engine. I even flew in WonderWoman view in combat. I wanted to be able to have some FUN while I was learning. All of this is offline of course. Then , as I became more proficient, I started turning the "difficulty" settings on to get a more "realistic" experience.

I would think you will be able to do the same thing in SoW. Except that the "realistic" settings will be even closer to "real life" than they were in IL-2.

Also I think people are missing what Oleg said about online play and third party add-ons. If Oleg does not implement limits on what a third party can do, unscrupulous third party developers will introduce "uber planes" into online combat.

Such considerations are not a problem, really, in mere flight sims. In flight sims, there is no competition online (though there is online play of course). Flight sim pilots want accuracy, they want their computer plane to fly as close to the real thing as possible. If a third party puts out a plane with unrealistic flight characteristics, words gets out and no one buys it .

In a combat sim, some (many?) online pilots would actually PAY for a BF-109 with a top speed 50 KPH too high, 50% more ammo capacity, and the maneuverability of a A6M.

Oleg is saying that if he doesn't implement controls on what third parties can do, the integrity of his COMBAT flight sim will suffer (that's the way I read his comments at least).

As someone who hates online cheaters and wishes he could reach through the internet and strangle such cheaters, I hope 1C can do a good job of limiting what cheaters can do. (Any offense given to online cheaters is completely intentional in my previous paragraph )

Splitter

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by OLEG

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox View Post
Its why we plan third party useful tools for the the makers of add-ons. Currently it useful only for us. Becasue we have no time to finalise them for external use before the sim will be out of gate
I was learning experience of MS with third party and get some info what is possible to give and what is not.
There are a lot of contradictions with this... especially due to online gameplay.
Sometime incorrect politics with add-ons may totally destroy the gameplay online.
The goal is to satisfy both sides:
1. these who want totally fair gameplay online with no cheating
2. these that want other set of objects, aircraft, ships, etc...

Trust me for the combat, not for the civil aircraft sim, it is very complex task to develope the code and to satisfy then all groups of interest.

CFS would be more popular with the investment power of MS, but from the beginning they did a lot of mistakes in this area.

In the other hand we can't anymore make everything ourselves - to get 3D from third party, to rework it and then to progam it, like it was with Il-2 series...it was total oveloading of our team. That all should be done on the third party side with the limits that we defining. And limits will be. For some parts - strong, for some - nothing in limit.

There is impossible to compare the MS FS third party development type with the Combat sim additions of third party. The main difference - Combat term, that defining the rules for inclusion in the game some new content by third parties. Gameplay of MS FS and any of combat flight sim is very different and its a problem to go by MS FS experience as a copy..

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Exactly...

I'm extremely optimistic about the situation.
I think that the difference between combat and non-combat aircraft modelling will be overcome without a problem. Shockwave (if they decide...) for instance, know that have to develop a damage model and working guns etc. or they won't be allowed to sell their add-ons. It's a big incentive!

Civilian (modern) aircraft makers on the other hand won't need to do so much in the way of damage modelling.

But the main reason why I think we will see third party companies making add-ons is because we will all want to fly lots of aircraft is SoW, and otherwise we will be stuck with a small plane-set for a long time...I think we will be craving for good add-ons. And willing to pay for them if made by third parties.

We want extra planes. If the weather/turbulence etc. is as accurate as we hope then anyone who flies in a plane sim will want the same.

[TheSwede]

Originally Posted by major_setback

But the main reason why I think we will see third party companies making add-ons is because we will all want to fly lots of aircraft is SoW, and otherwise we will be stuck with a small plane-set for a long time...I think we will be craving for good add-ons. And willing to pay for them if made by third parties.

We want extra planes. If the weather/turbulence etc. is as accurate as we hope then anyone who flies in a plane sim will want the same.

You do know that its called SoW series right? BoB is just the first game in line. We will get more planes. I think Oleg knows that one big part of the success with Il2 is the huge amount of available planes. It creates diversity and extend the life cycle of his product.

So we will get more planes.

BR
Simon

[furbs]

Originally Posted by kammo

Philip.ed and furbs.
You guys realise you sound like a stuck record? I have read a lot of post from you two (maybe hundreds from Philip) and reached the conclusion you are not cabable of a reasonable thinking and therefore I will suggest that you guys will give it a rest. I absolutely mean no harm or try to be disrepectful, honestly. Not trying to say I'm any better than you just a friendly suggestion to make this forum as pleasant as possible.

Nothing wrong about the asking/suggesting stuff but there is some kind of limit of the guestion asked and the way they are asked. This manner and limit is something that each induvidual have figure out themselves. I suggest you go back read your posts and try to think if there is something that you guys could do differen't.

These above are of course my subjective opinions and I could be wrong.

Cheers
Kammo

Kammo, when ever i post anything im always polite and never rude,and i always try to be constructive, now if Oleg ignores my posts or tells me to give it a rest, then thats fine with me, but he doesnt, he anwsers my posts politely and is never rude, now which would suggest he has no problem disussing these things, after all its a discssion thread.
Thanks for the concern Kammo, but i would suggest you look at your own post and have a think why you need to speak for Oleg or the SOW team.

[carl]

Let's face it, people who fly full switch in IL2 but don't want to learn about intercoolers, carb icing, over-torque or how a real engine works, will not be able to fly full switch in SoW now that systems modelling has been confirmed by Oleg Maddox. A guy who's used to executing 10000ft dives with radiators open, climbing with rads closed and running WEP on low prop pitch will have lots of nasty surprises and broken engines in SoW. That rubs some people the wrong way i guess and instead of choosing a difficulty setting that corresponds well to their lack of willingness to learn new stuff, they want to limit the scope of the sim because they're ashamed to say they don't fly full switch anymore

lol this is me
still enjoying il2 for last 6 or 7 years looking forward to enjoying bob and future releases for longer.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

I think I found a mistake. Look at this shot, I see two levers going into the same slot on the panel, that can't be right can it? Wouldn't they interfere with each other, the shorter one must be meant to go in the adjacent slot...

[IMG][/IMG]

[mungee]

I think that I would quite like a certain amount of engine management (as an option, obviously) ... as long as the AI pilots also have to battle with the same "headaches" that I would!! Hehe!

[jocko417]

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro

I think I found a mistake. Look at this shot, I see two levers going into the same slot on the panel, that can't be right can it? Wouldn't they interfere with each other, the shorter one must be meant to go in the adjacent slot...

[IMG][/IMG]

The knob on the shorter one should be mounted on the outside of the lever, the long one has it's knob on the inside and is correct. I think the levers do share the same slot but slide beside one another, with the knob on the short one moved to the outside it won't interfere with the other lever. Good find.

Here's a couple of scans of the levers from "HAWKER HURRICANE, Inside and Out" by Melvyn Hiscock.

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by TheSwede

You do know that its called SoW series right? BoB is just the first game in line. We will get more planes. I think Oleg knows that one big part of the success with Il2 is the huge amount of available planes. It creates diversity and extend the life cycle of his product.

So we will get more planes.

BR
Simon

Of course I know it is part of a series!
But SoW won't develop in the same way as IL2.
We have already been told that third party developers are essential if the game is going to grow like IL2, there is too much to do for the developing team to manage on their own.

If you want a Lysander, or Hudson, Hampdon or flyable Anson you will probably have to rely on third-party amateurs or professionals. The same goes for the rarer aircraft in subsequent SoW titles.

Who knows, if things work out well then the development team could concentrate on the more important programming, and future development (and the checking of flight models etc.), leaving relatively simpler model development and mundane tasks to be undertaken by third party actors.