Good news on future of BOM

[Bobb4]

I was not the original poster of this but because of the ongoing speculation about whether the project is cancelled or not I thought I would highlight this
A post made by DEDA.
The orginal post:
Re: Курилка
Вчера провел весь вечер с разработчиками в Москве. Через пару недель, а может быть быстрее, вы узнаете всё подробности о сложившейся ситуации. Пока скажу, что вас ждёт позитивная информация.

The google translation:
Yesterday I spent the whole evening with the developers in Moscow. After a couple of weeks, and can be faster, you will learn all the details of the situation. While I will say that you will find positive information.

When asked who he was this link was given:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DEDATV/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Obviously helps the team with flight models etc.


[QUOTE=podvoxx;481292]http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1926418&viewfull=1#post1926418





DEDA (http://www.youtube.com/user/DEDATV/featured)[/QUOTE

[SlipBall]

Thanks...not a surprise to some of us who use some logic:-P

[JG26_EZ]

lol!

"A couple of weeks" = "Two weeks" ?

Better news than no news.

[Blaf]

Phew... good to know.

[SlipBall]

The sim is just so popular that it will never be an orphaned project, or sold or traded as a weak broken engine...too much $ to loose, the investors can see that, be sure :-)

[JG52Krupi]

I hope your right slipball crazier things have been known to happen ;)

[Continu0]

two weeks, be sure....XD

But, yes ... phew.... good news!

[vranac]

Yes good news indeed )
And something more from DEDA:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=481328&postcount=25

Originally Posted by DEDA
Thanks for the kind words about my humble person and the film. I was asked not chatter, and I keep his word. For those who care about the genre, and the veterans community to add that this is not a resuscitation of mummies or pleasant eye makeup. This is a new complex idea for the Eastern Front. The usefulness of the simulator in every sense, to be released not to Sanchez pockets on towns and villages of the country, and to close the target genre niche professional aviasims. That's all. Enough to swing the censer!

[Insuber]

Yes good news indeed )
And something more from DEDA:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=481328&postcount=25

errrr ... and who is Sanchez?

[Von Crapenhauser]

I was not the original poster of this but because of the ongoing speculation about whether the project is cancelled or not I thought I would highlight this
A post made by DEDA.
The orginal post:
Re: Курилка
Вчера провел весь вечер с разработчиками в Москве. Через пару недель, а может быть быстрее, вы узнаете всё подробности о сложившейся ситуации. Пока скажу, что вас ждёт позитивная информация.

The google translation:
Yesterday I spent the whole evening with the developers in Moscow. After a couple of weeks, and can be faster, you will learn all the details of the situation. While I will say that you will find positive information.

When asked who he was this link was given:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DEDATV/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Obviously helps the team with flight models etc.


[QUOTE=podvoxx;481292]http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1926418&viewfull=1#post1926418





DEDA (http://www.youtube.com/user/DEDATV/featured)[/QUOTE

1st piece of good news in a while
Many thanks Bobb:grin:

[kendo65]

That's welcome news. Hopefully accurate. There have been so many rumours flying around lately.

I've been around this forum for a long time and I know how crazy things can get, but the amount of doom-laden hand-wringing based on nothing but speculation and rumour from the last few weeks really takes the biscuit.

[Feathered_IV]

Am I missing something here. I'm only seeing some vaugue assurance of "something" in the broken english of google translate. :confused:

[vranac]

errrr ... and who is Sanchez?

:) google makes some funny mistakes.
чёса карманов is original and I don't know what that means.

But from context of the sentence the sequel won't be arcade shooter.

[podvoxx]

:) google makes some funny mistakes.
чёса карманов is original and I don't know what that means.

But from context of the sentence the sequel won't be arcade shooter.

"We will not take away money(donate) from our players, as do other developers. There will not be leveling"

New msg :)
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1926620&viewfull=1#post1926620

[vranac]

"We will not take away money(donate) from our players, as do other developers. There will not be leveling"

New msg :)
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1926620&viewfull=1#post1926620

Thanks podvoxx :)
I was writing about this sentence:

Полноценном во всех смыслах авиасимуляторе, который выйдет не для чёса карманов по городкам и весям страны, а для закрытия целевой жанровой ниши профессиональных авиасимов.

[Sokol1]

без коров на лугах

Is correct assume that: "They are not in the swamp"?

;)

Sokol1

[Osprey]

That's welcome news. Hopefully accurate. There have been so many rumours flying around lately.

I've been around this forum for a long time and I know how crazy things can get, but the amount of doom-laden hand-wringing based on nothing but speculation and rumour from the last few weeks really takes the biscuit.

Eh? So it was rumour and speculation before but this new information is welcome and believable.....even though all it does is provide further evidence that work on the project stopped. :confused:

[Stirwenn]

As far as i read well, none from 1C confirm or infirm anything in bad or good....

[lonewulf]

As far as i read well, none from 1C confirm or infirm anything in bad or good....

...and why would they for god's sake? Fancy expecting IC, or any other company for that matter, to confirm or deny every inflammatory message posted on a public forum. I imagine they'll probably continue with the BoM project (very unfortunate acronym) if they anticipate a reasonable return on their investment. If not, well I guess we're out of luck. If that's the case we'll just have to wait for a company that's prepared to invest the necessary funds on a loss making basis....

[swiss]

If that's the case we'll just have to wait for a company that's prepared to invest the necessary funds on a loss making basis....


:grin:

[Fjordmonkey]

Meh, until I hear official word, from 1C themselves, in english, I don't even bother getting ready to be excited.

[vranac]

I imagine they'll probably continue with the BoM project (very unfortunate acronym) if they anticipate a reasonable return on their investment. If not, well I guess we're out of luck. If that's the case we'll just have to wait for a company that's prepared to invest the necessary funds on a loss making basis....

DEDA
Colleagues do not turn into fortunetellers. Brenda "IL-2" does not disappear because of whose will - that ambition or errors. People who have taken up this serious task, are well known to you. Others left the confines of our home, which was not actually for me the shocking news. Money is allocated, and officials didnt drop it in their hat. You have good opinion about them. Work is already under way for about a month. For too impressionable characters add that it will be absolutely transparent clear virpilsky[virtual pilot] project without cows in the meadows and prokachek. I understand that you want too know, but let's just wait for official information.

Who knows maybe some of this announcements was realised

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://internet.bibo.kz/162510-u-rossijjskogo-pravitelstva-poprosili.html&usg=ALkJrhiM-3N0LtDLzGjasGiMcHxpIowCZg

Ministry of Communications of the Russian Federation has asked the government to allocate 500 million rubles for the project to create a series of six military simulations, wrote May 5 newspaper "Vedomosti" , citing an unnamed official. According to a source publication, a project can be approved at the next meeting of the commission on modernization, will be the company "1C" with state support.

It is reported that "1C" plans to invest in the creation of games 200 million rubles. Another 20 million ready to allocate from the budget of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District - the authorities in the region have initiated the project.

Developments that will be made in the creation of flight simulation, can then be used for pilot training. The project is called promoting patriotism and preventing fraud stories. In addition, work on games will stimulate high-tech manufacturing.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Thanks...not a surprise to some of us who use some logic:-P
+1

[Stirwenn]

Friendly say Vranac, you can quote DEDA but he is not belonging to 1C. Working with is not working at...
Too many rumors and no sources certified, i prefer stop this brainy-masturbation-expectation.

[jamesdietz]

Well certainly I have the patience to wait two weeks ...I did it all the time with Il-2!
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Veidt6a_thumb.jpg

[JG52Krupi]

what does "prokachek" mean?

[Robert]

Meh, until I hear official word, from 1C themselves, in english, I don't even bother getting ready to be excited.


But how many forum members get excited by speculation and rumour, yet won't be level headed enough to either dismiss them as rumour or wait for a message from 1C? Just as the posts in the Sukoi forum prove nothing, neither do a few postings from "someone in the know."

[xpzorg]

what does "prokachek" mean?
upgrade/experience gain/leveling

[fruitbat]

+1

-1

[Kaiser]

что значит "prokachek"?

Prokachek aircraft - for $ buy extra power plane, invulnerability, and super-powerful weapons, is not true at the time.

[csThor]

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsK/tve9489-19651015-156.gif

So. You think this speculation will get you anywhere?

[Kaiser]

http://www.wearysloth.com/Галерея/ActorsK/tve9489-19651015-156. gif

Так. Вы думаете, что это предположение будет вам угодно?

said that "prokachek" there is no place to be all the best traditions of flight simulator

[Mysticpuma]

I'd hate to think that the moderators on these forums live by double standards?

As every thread speculating about the future of 1C/Maddox has so-far been deleted, even if they didn't break any of the forum rules, I would therefore fully expect this thread to be erased too?

Only when actual facts and information are coming from 1C/Maddox should we expect to see any threads allowed, or could we have some explanation as to why non rule breaking threads have been deleted but others with 'positive' conjecture (without official sanction) can merrily be allowed to give hope?

So can we see a little balance from tbe moderators until we get official news?

MP

[JG52Krupi]

I'd hate to think that the moderators on these forums live by double standards?

As every thread speculating about the future of 1C/Maddox has so-far been deleted, even if they didn't break any of the forum rules, I would therefore fully expect this thread to be erased too?

Only when actual facts and information are coming from 1C/Maddox should we expect to see any threads allowed, or could we have some explanation as to why non rule breaking threads have been deleted but others with 'positive' conjecture (without official sanction) can merrily be allowed to give hope?

So can we see a little balance from tbe moderators until we get official news?

MP

A person with an open mind would say that this must mean there is less speculation and more truth in this thread if they have not deleted it ;)

Plus no bashing of devs has started in this thread "YET".

[JG52Krupi]

upgrade/experience gain/leveling

Prokachek aircraft - for $ buy extra power plane, invulnerability, and super-powerful weapons, is not true at the time.

Thank you :D, this makes me a happy man indeed.

[CaptainDoggles]

A person with an open mind would say that this must mean there is less speculation and more truth in this thread if they have not deleted it ;)

Plus no bashing of devs has started in this thread "YET".

They locked plenty of threads in which there was no bashing of the devs. I expect this thread to be locked and/or deleted.

[SlipBall]

I though that those threads were deleted because of spreading false information.:confused:

[ATAG_Colander]

This thread has as much official information as any of the deleted/locked ones.

[Mysticpuma]

I though that those threads were deleted because of spreading false information.:confused:

Hit the nail on the head. Without official input this thread is exactly the same so it should be deleted. All other speculative threads have been removed, this thread has as much basis on truth as the deleted ones.

So objectively this thread should be deleted as it isn't officially sanctioned?

MP

[VO101_Tom]

Hit the nail on the head. Without official input this thread is exactly the same so it should be deleted. All other speculative threads have been removed, this thread has as much basis on truth as the deleted ones.

So objectively this thread should be deleted as it isn't officially sanctioned?

MP

Not the same. The last official statement is that the sequel work in progress, but no additional info, we have to wait the official announcement. The deleted topics claimed to the contrary without proof.

[SlipBall]

Hit the nail on the head. Without official input this thread is exactly the same so it should be deleted. All other speculative threads have been removed, this thread has as much basis on truth as the deleted ones.

So objectively this thread should be deleted as it isn't officially sanctioned?

MP


I think the DEDA comments are the same as what we were told just prior to the month of Dec. I will have to search it out to be sure...basically nothing has changed, lets get ready to rumble:-P

[vranac]

This thread has as much official information as any of the deleted/locked ones.

Of course it is not official information.We wan't get any until announcement.

But I find this source very respectable.

Deda is Andrey Samoteikin author of this great series.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DEDATV?feature=watch

[ATAG_Colander]

basically nothing has changed

For me no official news does not mean "nothing has changed" it means "We don't want to give official news".

[ATAG_Colander]

Of course it is not official information.We wan't get any until announcement.

But I find this source very respectable.

Deda is Andrey Samoteikin author of this great series.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DEDATV?feature=watch

IvanK is a very respectable source too and his thread got deleted.

[Meusli]

Nothing will ever make you negative nancy's stop, the mods will close your negative threads as they do nothing but feed your desire to see the worst in anything. You can easily discuss this news on ATAG or SimHQ to your hearts content, this is the companies website so you have to expect different things. The moment some good news comes along you want to shut that thread down so you can continue with your pessimism.

[Chivas]

Its quite possible IC has been in discussions for many months with an investor like their own government to help sponsor work on a series of historical Russian fronts. These talks could take months and they don't need alot of negative speculation coming from the forums as "everything", however small, is taken into consideration when making deals. This would be free money to help finish the game engine, and provide a historical account of the sacrifices and courage of the Russian people during the Great War. A win win situation. You gotta love positive speculation, hate negative speculation. ;)

[Jaws2002]

Since everyone throws in their speculations, here's one scenario that's possible based on fragments of info we've picked up here and there on this forums and my wilde speculations just for fun.
I think 1c is going to bring new Eastern front content, on CLOD engine, but they'll shake the company a bit before going forward.
From what I understand, they didn't aprove Luthier's "Project Galba" and the proposed med/Africa addon, so Luthier,(maybe together with some of the programers he brought into Maddox games) will be out of the team. Since Luthier and Jasson are good friends, I wouldn't exclude seing Luthier's Project Galba (Koreea) being made on Rise of Flight engine.

Of course, this are wilde drunken speculations and I could be barking, not only to the wrong tree, but to the wrong forest. :lol:

[Mysticpuma]

It's all a fair point and this was IvanK's post:

"We all know something is up inside 1C with respect to CLOD and the planned Moscow/Stalingrad sequels.... which I believe have been cancelled. I base that on hard information provided to me by trusted independent sources. These same sources also say that an "arrangement " has been made between 1C and 777 studios. Exactly what this arrangement is not clear. I say not clear because a third credible source provides a slightly different story.

Two options have been suggested. The first a new WWII Sim based on the ROF engine with unique new content. In this case all models and content from the Moscow/Stalingrad sequels will be trashed. The second suggestion is the porting of 3D models etc from the cancelled Moscow/Stalingrad sequels into the ROF engine to be part of the new 1C/777/ROF WWII Sim.

Foobs touched on all this in his Blog not so long ago. Many have lambasted Foobs scoop as garbage however it does actually closely agree with the info I have received from trusted knowledgeable sources.

So what is the TRUE situation ? the community are enjoying the current "Final" release patch of CLOD. It shows the awesome potential that CLOD has to offer. There is still work to be done however. The community anticipation is that improvements that will come with the sequels will flow through to CLOD. Of course if the sequels have been cancelled (which I believe to be the case) then what we have is it !

So 1C please tell the community what the True situation is. At present the community is in a Vacuum still awaiting that Official "sequel" announcement that was supposed to have been be made a couple of months ago."

All these threads are pure speculation, so let's speculate?

MP

[Mysticpuma]

http://www.freakflag.biz/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/x_files_intro_11.jpg

http://www.freakflag.biz/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/x_files_intro_02.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mqE4UHkvQyY/Tuk8JVirnvI/AAAAAAAABY8/oqWTj0oY1To/s1600/xfiles-b.jpg

[swiss]

Its quite possible IC has been in discussions for many months with an investor like their own government to help sponsor work on a series of historical Russian fronts. ;)

You should mark jokes.

[SlipBall]

It's all a fair point and this was IvanK's post:

"We all know something is up inside 1C with respect to CLOD and the planned Moscow/Stalingrad sequels.... which I believe have been cancelled. I base that on hard information provided to me by trusted independent sources. These same sources also say that an "arrangement " has been made between 1C and 777 studios. Exactly what this arrangement is not clear. I say not clear because a third credible source provides a slightly different story.

Two options have been suggested. The first a new WWII Sim based on the ROF engine with unique new content. In this case all models and content from the Moscow/Stalingrad sequels will be trashed. The second suggestion is the porting of 3D models etc from the cancelled Moscow/Stalingrad sequels into the ROF engine to be part of the new 1C/777/ROF WWII Sim.

Foobs touched on all this in his Blog not so long ago. Many have lambasted Foobs scoop as garbage however it does actually closely agree with the info I have received from trusted knowledgeable sources.

So what is the TRUE situation ? the community are enjoying the current "Final" release patch of CLOD. It shows the awesome potential that CLOD has to offer. There is still work to be done however. The community anticipation is that improvements that will come with the sequels will flow through to CLOD. Of course if the sequels have been cancelled (which I believe to be the case) then what we have is it !

So 1C please tell the community what the True situation is. At present the community is in a Vacuum still awaiting that Official "sequel" announcement that was supposed to have been be made a couple of months ago."

All these threads are pure speculation, so let's speculate?

MP


It's almost like his very life is depending on getting some kind of reply from the devs, seems odd. :-P everyone chill and let them work! having all the answers will not change your life for now.. lol :-P

[IvanK]

WRT the statement about the investment of government money ... that is old news. If some one wants to take the time and go back through the archives you will discover that it was made back in Olegs time.

This investment was instrumental with the decision to go with a Russian (Moscow/Stalingrad) sequel scenario rather than the original Mediterranean/Desert scenario for the sequel.

And no SlipBall my life doesnt rely on getting a reply from the devs (thats the new devs btw), it was an attempt to get a timely statement for the community. .... I am pretty sure I know whats coming down the track !

[major_setback]

Guessing.

B6: They're spreading rumours on the forum.
Luthier: Again?


.

[SlipBall]

WRT the statement about the investment of government money ... that is old news. If some one wants to take the time and go back through the archives you will discover that it was made back in Olegs time.

This investment was instrumental with the decision to go with a Russian (Moscow/Stalingrad) sequel scenario rather than the original Mediterranean/Desert scenario for the sequel.

And no SlipBall my life doesnt rely on getting a reply from the devs (thats the new devs btw), it was an attempt to get a timely statement for the community. .... I am pretty sure I know whats coming down the track !


I am just as curious as you are Ivan, we all love the series. But they have been saying for months, that it must remain a secret for awhile longer. So even though I am curious as hell, I will give them that respect, and wait to hear an official announcement. If I were to ask now I would be met with silence, so why bother them, and disappoint myself.:-)

[ATAG_Colander]

SlipBall,

What we are asking is not for them do divulge the secret of the sequels but to let us know officially if there will be any sequel using the improved CLOD engine.

Is a simple:
"Hi, we had some internal changes but development of the CLOD engine has not stopped for the sequels. You will have an announcement in two weeks, for sure"

I, for one, do not understand why the silence for such a simple notification that would squash the rumors about it being cancelled or a different engine being used.

[fruitbat]

SlipBall,

What we are asking is not for them do divulge the secret of the sequels but to let us know officially if there will be any sequel using the improved CLOD engine.

Is a simple:
"Hi, we had some internal changes but development of the CLOD engine has not stopped for the sequels. You will have an announcement in two weeks, for sure"

I, for one, do not understand why the silence for such a simple notification that would squash the rumors about it being cancelled or a different engine being used.

This......

[planespotter]

I don't believe in astrology. I am a Sagittarius and we're very sceptical. Arthur C Clarke

(Just wanted to get a post in before this thread is deeeeeeleted.)

[major_setback]

If you were on the development team would you feel a need to inform this community of wingers, whiners, saboteurs and rumour-mongers any of your intentions?
Isn't the community just a little bit too needy?

If I was on the team I would be thankful for the break from the community so I could concentrate on developing the game and for once not have to answer a myriad of questions.

I don't think it's a good idea to go and knock on the door and ask if there's anyone there.

They gave us what we asked for - a reasonably well finished version of the game. Now let's leave them in peace.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

It's very nice to hear the unofficial rumor/inside information/scuttlebutt (however you choose to catagorize the information in this thread), that CoD follow-on will not be implemented in a "pay-to-win" model.

While I can see at least some benefits to an MMO Il2, my great fear for months is that it would be implemented in a World of Tanks type model, whose worst aspect is the sheer amount of time that player must spend in order to obtain the next aircraft.

Anyway, it's nice to see a little positive information - even if it turns out it's incorrect in some aspect or the other. Helps me get through the day.

[SlipBall]

SlipBall,

What we are asking is not for them do divulge the secret of the sequels but to let us know officially if there will be any sequel using the improved CLOD engine.

Is a simple:
"Hi, we had some internal changes but development of the CLOD engine has not stopped for the sequels. You will have an announcement in two weeks, for sure"

I, for one, do not understand why the silence for such a simple notification that would squash the rumors about it being cancelled or a different engine being used.


Yes it is a simple question and common sense would be, to get a short simple answer from them. To tell the truth, I doubt they even have time or bother to read here. Ivan could very well be right about things, but what would such an answer do to morale...would be a lock fest around here:grin:

[addman]

Incredible, they've already said "wait for announcement", then someone says something about someone they know that may know something and the rumour mill starts spinning like there's no tomorrow. Here's a little tip, wait for the announcement.:rolleyes:

[klem]

Reading the sukhoi site through the Bing translator is like reading ancient druid poetry written by a schizophrenic. The speculation/translation in here is as hard to follow.

Anyone got a simple one liner for what it is trying to say?

[GF_Mastiff]

well you guys remember those little video teasers with the player controlled vehicles and AA guns...?

I think there just improving on that and making it better for an announcement in 2 weeks.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

This latest rumour just hi-lights once again the real question, which needs to be answered by a 1C Spokesperson:

What is the status of Battle of Moscow/Battle of Stalingrad? Is the series continuing and in what form?

[Chivas]

Salute

This latest rumour just hi-lights once again the real question, which needs to be answered by a 1C Spokesperson:

What is the status of Battle of Moscow/Battle of Stalingrad? Is the series continuing and in what form?

We have to assume this will be the whole point of the announcement. I can't see any point in delaying the announcement unless they were still in negotiations, which is probably the case.

[priller26]

I will believe there is a sequel when I have a working product on my harddrive which is bug free. Engaging in a couple years of speculation and unkept promises is pointless.

[zapatista]

Salute

This latest rumour just hi-lights once again the real question, which needs to be answered by a 1C Spokesperson:

What is the status of Battle of Moscow/Battle of Stalingrad? Is the series continuing and in what form?

we already had that confirmed at the completion of the most recent CoD patch (which is only a few weeks ago), work on BoM is continuing and there was mention by luthier of some major announcement due about other aspects of the SoW series. the initial indications were that this new announcement might be about a possible MMO project (with or without still creating later installments of the SoW series is not clear)

which brings us to the current date, where a few 3e hand whiff's of possible change at 1C has the usual same trolls and whiners in the western forums go in a tail spin while cluttering the forums with their clouds of doom and negative speculation. no doubt foobar and ivanK heard something, but there is no indication of what part of the elephant the blind man is holding and then trying to describe to the rest of the crowd of onlookers. neither is there any indication of how reliable their sources are, and these would be lower level employees in any case (who dont hold the big picture information senior management has).

meanwhile in the russian forums (which are usually much better informed) there is no increased chatter or leaked reports of imminent negative changes regarding the future of the SoW series (or reports of major staff changes, or disgruntled recently fired staff members posting under new pseudonyms and bringing out all the dirty laundry). if anything there are positive reports of a new possible investor to breath further life into the series (with a strong emphasis on maintaining realism and a high quality flightsim), AND work continuing on BoM as planned

and if it would so turn out that there has been some change in the current project leader for SoW (luthier), then the lot of you have advanced notice so each of you can go and buy him a case of good vodka as a big thank you for rescueing the SoW series from the imminent death it faced 18 months ago, and for fixing the giant mess he was given when he took over. our only hope for a high realism ww2 flightsim was saved from near death, and after 12 months or so he has given us a pretty good next gen flightsim product that has lots of potential in it to quickly make further giant leaps forward in a very short space of time (since the core game and gfx engine is now working well enough to address the other residual issues)

it is much easier to break and destroy something, then it is to create it, and if any of you are at all interested at all to maximize our chances of getting to the promised land of all-things-good-in-ww2-flightsim, then you better stop giving matches and cans of fuel to the trolls and whiners who have no intention to ever help create anything positive, as they are only here to share their misery

[planespotter]

we already had that confirmed at the completion of the most recent CoD patch (which is only a few weeks ago), work on BoM is continuing and there was mention by luthier of some major announcement due about other aspects of the SoW series. the initial indications were that this new announcement might be about a possible MMO project (with or without still creating later installments of the SoW series is not clear)

which brings us to the current date, where a few 3e hand whiff's of possible change at 1C has the usual same trolls and whiners in the western forums go in a tail spin while cluttering the forums with their clouds of doom and negative speculation. no doubt foobar and ivanK heard something, but there is no indication of what part of the elephant the blind man is holding and then trying to describe to the rest of the crowd of onlookers. neither is there any indication of how reliable their sources are, and these would be lower level employees in any case (who dont hold the big picture information senior management has).

meanwhile in the russian forums (which are usually much better informed) there is no increased chatter or leaked reports of imminent negative changes regarding the future of the SoW series (or reports of major staff changes, or disgruntled recently fired staff members posting under new pseudonyms and bringing out all the dirty laundry). if anything there are positive reports of a new possible investor to breath further life into the series (with a strong emphasis on maintaining realism and a high quality flightsim), AND work continuing on BoM as planned

and if it would so turn out that there has been some change in the current project leader for SoW (luthier), then the lot of you have advanced notice so each of you can go and buy him a case of good vodka as a big thank you for rescueing the SoW series from the imminent death it faced 18 months ago, and for fixing the giant mess he was given when he took over. our only hope for a high realism ww2 flightsim was saved from near death, and after 12 months or so he has given us a pretty good next gen flightsim product that has lots of potential in it to quickly make further giant leaps forward in a very short space of time (since the core game and gfx engine is now working well enough to address the other residual issues)

it is much easier to break and destroy something, then it is to create it, and if any of you are at all interested at all to maximize our chances of getting to the promised land of all-things-good-in-ww2-flightsim, then you better stop giving matches and cans of fuel to the trolls and whiners who have no intention to ever help create anything positive, as they are only here to share their misery

Very good post zapman. Right on.

[Kaiser]

WRT заявление об инвестиционных правительственных денег ... это старые Новости. Если кто-то хочет взять на время и вернуться в архиве вы обнаружите, что оно было принято еще в Олег времени.

Эта инвестиция была инструментальной с решением идти с России (Москва, Сталинград) продолжение сценария, а не оригинальное Средиземном море/Пустыня сценарий для сиквела.

И не SlipBall моей жизни не рассчитывать на получение ответа от разработчиков, новый случай, кстати), это была попытка получить своевременное заявление для общественности. .... Я уверен, я знаю, что сходит с дорожки !

Indeed, in 2010 the question was raised about allocate
financing that would support the patriotic education of youth.
(!) Perhaps this project today touched the simulator IL2.

Watch from 1.30 minute
http://www.1tv.ru/news/polit/153305

waiting for official information

[Feathered_IV]

Of all the tiniest crumbs of information that we've had to subsist on over the last few years, this is by far the smallest and most vague. Wait and see fellas. Wait and see.

[jojimbo]

I only want to go tank busting at Kursk in a Stuka equipped with 50mm cannons, is that too much to ask? :)

[He111]

Thanks, didn't think BOM would be shelves so close to sale time.

Love this video .. pity no english text though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAuQDynn3wY&feature=plcp

and this one ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF9VZSkVZI0&feature=fvwrel

pity it didn't have the original engine, thought it didn't sound right.
.

[Ataros]

Love this video .. pity no english text though.

Deda posted a link to an unlisted U-2 (Po-2) video today. Check out aircraft visibility at 2:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dU0JH2wGZKA

[MadTommy]

I hope the news is positive when it comes out. Unfortunately the negative news I've been hearing appears to have more weight that this snippet.

Fingers crossed development is ongoing and taking the same course as last reported by Luthier.

[He111]

please, no more haze-layers, we're not in LA. :grin:

.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Deda posted a link to an unlisted U-2 (Po-2) video today. Check out aircraft visibility at 2:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dU0JH2wGZKA

Good AA in this one! Driver or ingame settings? It's FXAA or SMAA?

[major_setback]

we already had that confirmed at the completion of the most recent CoD patch (which is only a few weeks ago), work on BoM is continuing and there was mention by luthier of some major announcement due about other aspects of the SoW series. the initial indications were that this new announcement might be about a possible MMO project (with or without still creating later installments of the SoW series is not clear)

which brings us to the current date, where a few 3e hand whiff's of possible change at 1C has the usual same trolls and whiners in the western forums go in a tail spin while cluttering the forums with their clouds of doom and negative speculation. no doubt foobar and ivanK heard something, but there is no indication of what part of the elephant the blind man is holding and then trying to describe to the rest of the crowd of onlookers. neither is there any indication of how reliable their sources are, and these would be lower level employees in any case (who dont hold the big picture information senior management has).

meanwhile in the russian forums (which are usually much better informed) there is no increased chatter or leaked reports of imminent negative changes regarding the future of the SoW series (or reports of major staff changes, or disgruntled recently fired staff members posting under new pseudonyms and bringing out all the dirty laundry). if anything there are positive reports of a new possible investor to breath further life into the series (with a strong emphasis on maintaining realism and a high quality flightsim), AND work continuing on BoM as planned

and if it would so turn out that there has been some change in the current project leader for SoW (luthier), then the lot of you have advanced notice so each of you can go and buy him a case of good vodka as a big thank you for rescueing the SoW series from the imminent death it faced 18 months ago, and for fixing the giant mess he was given when he took over. our only hope for a high realism ww2 flightsim was saved from near death, and after 12 months or so he has given us a pretty good next gen flightsim product that has lots of potential in it to quickly make further giant leaps forward in a very short space of time (since the core game and gfx engine is now working well enough to address the other residual issues)

it is much easier to break and destroy something, then it is to create it, and if any of you are at all interested at all to maximize our chances of getting to the promised land of all-things-good-in-ww2-flightsim, then you better stop giving matches and cans of fuel to the trolls and whiners who have no intention to ever help create anything positive, as they are only here to share their misery


+1
Well said.

[pupaxx]

somewhere I read '....to promote patriotism...', for sure red planes FM will be overmodded...:grin: :grin:
salute!

[JG52Krupi]

some were I read '....to promote patriotism...', for sure red planes FM will be overmodded...:grin: :grin:
salute!

:lol: exactly what I thought :D

[xpzorg]

Да, действительно, в 2010 году подняла вопрос о выделении финансовых средств для поддержки патриотического воспитания молодежи.
(!)Возможно этот проект сегодня коснулся симулятор IL2.

Смотреть 1.30 мин
http://www.1tv.ru/news/polit/153305

waiting for official information

Why you translate it in russian? Unreadable! (google translator working bad in both directions R-E/E-R).

[ECV56_Guevara]

some were I read '....to promote patriotism...', for sure red planes FM will be overmodded...:grin: :grin:
salute!

Officially you re the first Luftwhiner of CloD´s sequel. Two years before it hit the shelves.

[klem]

Officially you re the first Luftwhiner of CloD´s sequel. Two years before it hit the shelves.

Oh, goodeeee, were starting the party early :)

Where's Tree_UK?

[raaaid]

i have the theory the spit was is and always be uber at any game

so fars true gues who won the war

[JG52Krupi]

i have the theory the spit was is and always be uber at any game

so fars true gues who won the war

No aircraft was really "superior" to any other. The allies won the air war just like they won the ground war, basically through sheer numbers, the war was doomed from the start.

Ww1 was where technological advances constantly swayed the air war in favour of one side to the other...

[Kaiser]

почему вы перевести ее на русский? нечитаемым! (переводчик google работает плохо в обоих направлениях r-e/e-r).

I would be grateful if you could offer me something best.

[Kaiser]

война была обречена с самого начала....

Otto von Bismarck stated that war is between Germany and Russia - is the greatest folly.
But unfortunately Hitler not destined to hear the admonition ..

[xpzorg]

я был бы признателен, если бы вы мне предложить что-то лучшее
Try speake english? Why you translate to russian?
I assure you, for Russian native speaker is difficult to understand this set of words.

[JG52Krupi]

try speake english? Why you translate to russian?
I assure you, for russian native speaker is difficult to understand this set of words.

простите, но что это ваша проблема, имеет он как-то оскорбил вас?

[xpzorg]

простите, но что это ваша проблема, имеет он как-то оскорбил вас?
Ok if you want speak russian.
Я просто хочу понять зачем пытаться писать по русски на англоязычном форуме. Это похоже на передразнивание/троллинг.

[Bricks]

No aircraft was really "superior" to any other. The allies won the air war just like they won the ground war, basically through sheer numbers, the war was doomed from the start.

Ww1 was where technological advances constantly swayed the air war in favour of one side to the other...

The question is, which "sway" you model. ;)

[JG52Krupi]

The question is, which "sway" you model. ;)

Haha hmmm... a Fascist or Communist sway ;)

[Kaiser]

Try speake english? Why you translate to russian?
I assure you, for Russian native speaker is difficult to understand this set of words.

Thank you!
Now I understood what you mean. :)
The fact that I had the automatic translation of the page, and when administered the English text occurs automatically translation into Russian, but I could not see because the page at me is displayed in Ru
after disabling automatic translation of I saw that my posts are displayed in clumsy Ru.
I'm sorry.

P.S.
corrected messages

[Frequent_Flyer]

No aircraft was really "superior" to any other. The allies won the air war just like they won the ground war, basically through sheer numbers, the war was doomed from the start.

Ww1 was where technological advances constantly swayed the air war in favour of one side to the other...

The Allies won WW II because the US developed the most potent weapon still known to man and the most technologically advanced delivery system, for its time . They out managed and produced the axis at every phase necessary to prosecute a war.

If it would have been necessary the US would have designed far superior engineered equipment. However, as it was they only needed a fighter designed in 1943 and a bomber designed pre war to devistate Germany from the air.

[*Buzzsaw*]

No aircraft was really "superior" to any other. The allies won the air war just like they won the ground war, basically through sheer numbers, the war was doomed from the start.

Ww1 was where technological advances constantly swayed the air war in favour of one side to the other...

In the crucial period Jan. 1944 to September 1944, the Western Allies had the superior technology versus Germany. The Mustang and Spitfire of that time period were superior to the German aircraft they opposed, (primarily the 109G6) and despite not having any better numbers advantage than the Germans had during the BoB, the better aircraft told. During that time period the Western Allied airforces established complete air superiority, destroyed the German ability to manufacture and distribute fuel, attritioned the German pilot cadre to the point it could not recover and managed to land in France and liberate it. During the same time period, in an effort to counter the Allied air offensive, the Germans committed the bulk of their airforce to oppose the Western Allies, reduced their aircraft opposing the Soviets to the point the Soviets also gained complete air superiority, and were able to mount a ground offensive which liberated most of the remainder of the Soviet Union as well as seizing the oil assets in Rumania.

The Allied and Soviet air superiority greatly improved their ground force's ability to mount offensives as well as advancing and capturing territory. The lack of fuel, (due to the Western Allied bombing of German assetss) on the German side led to strategic paralysis, the inability to maneuver and position reserves to counter Allied or Soviet attack thrusts, or properly exploit counterattacks. (France being the primary example)

In the second half of 1944 and the first half of 1945, the Germans began to produce a few superior aircraft, in particular the Me-262, but these were built in too small numbers and the Luftwaffe could not take advantage of this superiority due to the lack of trained and experienced pilots remaining, (many not being trained sufficiently in the flight schools due to the lack of fuel allocated to training, a direct result of the bombing campaign) and the misallocation of the few aircraft which were produced. And of course, the situation on the ground had irretrievably deteriorated to the point Germany had lost most of the resources it needed to continue.

[Al Schlageter]

The Allies won WW II because the US developed the most potent weapon still known to man and the most technologically advanced delivery system, for its time . They out managed and produced the axis at every phase necessary to prosecute a war.

If it would have been necessary the US would have designed far superior engineered equipment. However, as it was they only needed a fighter designed in 1943 and a bomber designed pre war to devistate Germany from the air.

The Mustang first flew in 1940. It needed a British engine to be successful. The USAAF wasn't interested in the a/c till the USN took notice of it.

[hiro]

winnng wars has several factors . . . many factors . . .

and often these factors are lined up like dominos, one factor falling causes others to fall also . . .


one of the key was industrialization and supply, of which as been discussed
another was the leadership quality (hitler playing general while the allies generally gave their generals and admirals to work)

strategy and tactics. the Axis powers had great tactics but their strategy had holes the Allies did not . . .

this leads into resource managment, one side managed resources better

Controlling the sea . . . (this played more a role in the pacific but played a role in western front), Germany threatened the sea, but didn't control it

Controlling the air . . .

military strength, economic / industrialization power of allies . . .

quality and quantity of troops . . .

use the environment / situation (Russian winter etc) . . .

one could go endless



I could see the Soviet planes getting more love, but as things go on, hopefully the devs will make things historically accurate.


It's pointless to argue over something that hasn't happend even if there's a highly likely chance of it happening.



--------


back to the topic



I don't think the devs will close it, because its not a wild rumor that leads off the path completely, and leads to multiple infractions by participants like the ones they've locked.

They may close if people start arguing and breakin rules . . . here


It's kind of like earlier, pre B6 times . . . when sukhoi seemed to get news about the new IL-2 over there.

but its hearsay, however I do remember the sukhoi news would have some truth when the official dev press release was given . . .




I don't know where the rumor started that the devs weren't going to use the game engine that ClOD used . ..

Well the devs could either continue to fix or redo a new one with what they learned form the old one.

Either way if they learned the lessons, hopefully those will cut down the time and monumentality that designing an engine from scratch or overhauling badly coded one . . .

but we can't know and speculate like the following

Then there's the devs use the ROF engine. But the ROF engine is not a current engine (this was discussed in IvanK's thread (already), and use it would be reliable but the engine is dated and we are expecting much more.

And there would be licensing etc . . .


Or ROF team is building a successor engine (and later ROF successor) and IL-2 team will use that or do a join team thing and develop an engine based off the new gen ROF one . . . That might be interesting.

Maybe IL-2 devs are looking at what other sim engines do well (like ROF, 1946, DCS must) and figuring their own way to pull it off . ..

I don't know but while rumors and speculation can be fun, we won't know until the offical ball drops.

But we can only speculate.

Still this rumor points in a good direction, that they are working to develop something professional;

there isn't levelling up or uber planes, and they aren't going to take money from players so this could mean they aren't having a pay per plane or F2P mmo model where to get the real goodies you have to pony up $ . . .

And we have the usual 2 week notice . . . It seems that's a running joke from the devs . . .

they'll always say official announcement in 2 weeks whether they are going to or not just for "shits n giggles"

But its not comfirmed, so we can only take this with a grain of salt . . .




Yes good news indeed )
And something more from DEDA:
Originally Posted by DEDA
Thanks for the kind words about my humble person and the film. I was asked not chatter, and I keep his word. For those who care about the genre, and the veterans community to add that this is not a resuscitation of mummies or pleasant eye makeup. This is a new complex idea for the Eastern Front. The usefulness of the simulator in every sense, to be released not to Sanchez pockets on towns and villages of the country, and to close the target genre niche professional aviasims. That's all. Enough to swing the censer!

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=481328&postcount=25

->

errrr ... and who is Sanchez?


I was laughing so hard . . .


I think it means the devs are aiming for a sim engine that even professional aviators can use for an accurate depiction of flight.

I thought about the "Sanchez"

Sanchez is that mustache you see most of the Mexican banditos (bandits) sporting in those old westerns

or

that "sex" move (google it)

or

Sancho means the other guy (having sex with your wife / gf) or the other guy a woman has on the side (for sex / weird relationship)




----------------




we already had that confirmed at the completion of the most recent CoD patch (which is only a few weeks ago), work on BoM is continuing and there was mention by luthier of some major announcement due about other aspects of the SoW series. the initial indications were that this new announcement might be about a possible MMO project (with or without still creating later installments of the SoW series is not clear)

which brings us to the current date, where a few 3e hand whiff's of possible change at 1C has the usual same trolls and whiners in the western forums go in a tail spin while cluttering the forums with their clouds of doom and negative speculation. no doubt foobar and ivanK heard something, but there is no indication of what part of the elephant the blind man is holding and then trying to describe to the rest of the crowd of onlookers. neither is there any indication of how reliable their sources are, and these would be lower level employees in any case (who dont hold the big picture information senior management has).

meanwhile in the russian forums (which are usually much better informed) there is no increased chatter or leaked reports of imminent negative changes regarding the future of the SoW series (or reports of major staff changes, or disgruntled recently fired staff members posting under new pseudonyms and bringing out all the dirty laundry). if anything there are positive reports of a new possible investor to breath further life into the series (with a strong emphasis on maintaining realism and a high quality flightsim), AND work continuing on BoM as planned

and if it would so turn out that there has been some change in the current project leader for SoW (luthier), then the lot of you have advanced notice so each of you can go and buy him a case of good vodka as a big thank you for rescueing the SoW series from the imminent death it faced 18 months ago, and for fixing the giant mess he was given when he took over. our only hope for a high realism ww2 flightsim was saved from near death, and after 12 months or so he has given us a pretty good next gen flightsim product that has lots of potential in it to quickly make further giant leaps forward in a very short space of time (since the core game and gfx engine is now working well enough to address the other residual issues)

it is much easier to break and destroy something, then it is to create it, and if any of you are at all interested at all to maximize our chances of getting to the promised land of all-things-good-in-ww2-flightsim, then you better stop giving matches and cans of fuel to the trolls and whiners who have no intention to ever help create anything positive, as they are only here to share their misery

well said


I remember on a commentary about Tolkien said its much more divine to create than to make a mockery, so creation, even if its fantasy, is a on higher level while satire, which is a mockery of what has been created is considred a low form and a ride in devil's play ground . . .






I only want to go tank busting at Kursk in a Stuka equipped with 50mm cannons, is that too much to ask? :)


it depends of BoM is successful or not
if it is, there's a high probability the Il-2 series will take off and we will see that.

I kinda like that version of the Stuka in IL-2 1946; online I'd just fly low and knock off the wheels for better performance and puncture tanks.

I like the mixed fight + mud mover missions.

I remember I stayed low and all these Mustang dudes were looking for me and couldn't really focus cuz some bad team mates were vulching the crap out of the opposing airfields with their 190s . . .

[major_setback]

i have the theory the spit was is and always be uber at any game

so fars true gues who won the war

raaaid, you are truly a genius. You only have to mention that one plane was superior (won the war) and all the recent speculation is forgotten in the ensuing squabble.

[5./JG27.Farber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPgdzgncG0&feature=youtu.be

[Kaiser]

I was laughing so hard . . .


I think it means the devs are aiming for a sim engine that even professional aviators can use for an accurate depiction of flight.

I thought about the "Sanchez"

Sanchez is that mustache you see most of the Mexican banditos (bandits) sporting in those old westerns

or

that "sex" move (google it)

or

Sancho means the other guy (having sex with your wife / gf) or the other guy a woman has on the side (for sex / weird relationship)




----------------

:)
"Sanchez" mistranslation (чесать).
Should be understood as "scratching your pockets users" - extracting maximum profit without much effort.

P.S.
If it is short:
DEDA told that it will be high-grade an avia the exercise machine (East Front) in the new decision.

[lonewulf]

If it would have been necessary the US would have designed far superior engineered equipment. However, as it was they only needed a fighter designed in 1943 and a bomber designed pre war to devistate Germany from the air.

The good old P51 Mustang. Of all the fighter aircraft (other than the Spit/Tempest/Mossie and Fury) to be commissioned, named and powered by the British, the Mustang was probably the best :grin:

[Toni74]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPgdzgncG0&feature=youtu.be

Such a small gap doesn't let the train derail.

One have to put at least 1,50 metres out of the rail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-8gV4DJZUw#!

[F19_Klunk]

The Allies won WW II because the US developed the most potent weapon still known to man and the most technologically advanced delivery system, for its time . They out managed and produced the axis at every phase necessary to prosecute a war.

Yet another believer of modern myths and simplistic explanations i see.

[Toni74]

The Allies won WW II because the US developed the most potent weapon still known to man and the most technologically advanced delivery system, for its time . They out managed and produced the axis at every phase necessary to prosecute a war.

m(

that's of course is the reason they do win all wars they declare against others. and even those they didn't declare. you are so...

[JG52Krupi]

Yet another believer of modern myths and simplistic explanations i see.

:lol:

"America **** YEAH, USA USA USA..."

Mean while the rest of the world..

"Sigh...."

[5./JG27.Farber]

Such a small gap doesn't let the train derail.

One have to put at least 1,50 metres out of the rail:



You forgot one thing, this is the banana forum - the laws off physics dont exist here! :-P

[KG26_Alpha]

You forgot one thing, this is the banana forum - the laws off physics dont exist here! :-P

And priss monunciation.

:)

[major_setback]

And priss monunciation.

:)

Ironically (and unfortunately), I think you will find that it's spelled 'piss minunciation':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0nFQgRApY

http://www.google.se/#hl=sv&sclient=psy-ab&q=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&oq=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&gs_l=hp.12...222860.223391.1.226657.2.2.0.0.0.0.0. 0..0.0...0.0...1c.1.2EfW1Sk05GM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=20c8495ed0164cc8&bpcl=38625945&biw=1302&bih=540




.

[JG52Krupi]

Ironically (and unfortunately), I think you will find that it's spelled 'piss minunciation':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0nFQgRApY

http://www.google.se/#hl=sv&sclient=psy-ab&q=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&oq=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&gs_l=hp.12...222860.223391.1.226657.2.2.0.0.0.0.0. 0..0.0...0.0...1c.1.2EfW1Sk05GM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=20c8495ed0164cc8&bpcl=38625945&biw=1302&bih=540




.

And I think you will find it was Ronnie not Ronny :P

[major_setback]

and i think you will find it was ronnie not ronny :p

:-(



.

[KG26_Alpha]

Ironically (and unfortunately), I think you will find that it's spelled 'piss minunciation':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0nFQgRApY

http://www.google.se/#hl=sv&sclient=psy-ab&q=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&oq=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&gs_l=hp.12...222860.223391.1.226657.2.2.0.0.0.0.0. 0..0.0...0.0...1c.1.2EfW1Sk05GM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=20c8495ed0164cc8&bpcl=38625945&biw=1302&bih=540




.

The clue is in the name of the tile of the sketch its the same as my misspelling.

You failed on all levels with this rhetorical attempt of irony.

Have another go.

:razz:

[Rjel]

:lol:

"America **** YEAH, USA USA USA..."

Mean while the rest of the world..

"Sigh...."

More and more I wish the rest of the world would "sigh" it's self right to hell. Your self righteous posts really wear thin. Give China a call if you need help of any nature in the future. I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to help. I'd rather my tax dollars stay home for a while.

[major_setback]

The clue is in the name of the tile of the sketch its the same as my misspelling.

You failed on all levels with this rhetorical attempt of irony.

Have another go.

:razz:

You missed my Google link (posted under the video), showing the appropriate spelling.

http://www.google.se/#hl=sv&sclient=psy-ab&q=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&oq=ronny+barker+piss+minunciation&gs_l=hp.12...222860.223391.1.226657.2.2.0.0.0.0.0. 0..0.0...0.0...1c.1.2EfW1Sk05GM&pbx=1&fp=1&bpcl=38625945&biw=1302&bih=540&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&cad=b


So no need to try again :-)
.

[Faustnik]

In the crucial period Jan. 1944 to September 1944, the Western Allies had the superior technology versus Germany. The Mustang and Spitfire of that time period were superior to the German aircraft they opposed, (primarily the 109G6) and despite not having any better numbers advantage than the Germans had during the BoB, the better aircraft told.

The lufwaffe had good fighters in 1944 for technology. The Bf109s and fw190 had improved power.

The improvment for the allies was pilot training.

The Soviets has a problem with tech in 1941 to mid 1942.

The RAF maybe had a tech problem in mid 1942, but, it was a very small fight.

RAF, US and USSR trained a large number of pilots with new tactics.

LW had kept their veteran pilots in combat.

[Catseye]

In the crucial period Jan. 1944 to September 1944, the Western Allies had the superior technology versus Germany. The Mustang and Spitfire of that time period were superior to the German aircraft they opposed, (primarily the 109G6) and despite not having any better numbers advantage than the Germans had during the BoB, the better aircraft told. During that time period the Western Allied airforces established complete air superiority, destroyed the German ability to manufacture and distribute fuel, attritioned the German pilot cadre to the point it could not recover and managed to land in France and liberate it. During the same time period, in an effort to counter the Allied air offensive, the Germans committed the bulk of their airforce to oppose the Western Allies, reduced their aircraft opposing the Soviets to the point the Soviets also gained complete air superiority, and were able to mount a ground offensive which liberated most of the remainder of the Soviet Union as well as seizing the oil assets in Rumania.

The Allied and Soviet air superiority greatly improved their ground force's ability to mount offensives as well as advancing and capturing territory. The lack of fuel, (due to the Western Allied bombing of German assetss) on the German side led to strategic paralysis, the inability to maneuver and position reserves to counter Allied or Soviet attack thrusts, or properly exploit counterattacks. (France being the primary example)

In the second half of 1944 and the first half of 1945, the Germans began to produce a few superior aircraft, in particular the Me-262, but these were built in too small numbers and the Luftwaffe could not take advantage of this superiority due to the lack of trained and experienced pilots remaining, (many not being trained sufficiently in the flight schools due to the lack of fuel allocated to training, a direct result of the bombing campaign) and the misallocation of the few aircraft which were produced. And of course, the situation on the ground had irretrievably deteriorated to the point Germany had lost most of the resources it needed to continue.

Source?
Or your conjecture?

[Faustnik]

Buzzsaw has solid sources.

I was just pointing what was the main advantage of the Allies where excellent training.

[JG52Krupi]

Training and numbers, having that many pilots allowed for rotations/rests, something that the luftwaffe could not afford to give its pilots.

@Buzzsaw- The aircraft were not "superior" they just had the upper hand it was the numbers and when it comes to things like fuel manufacturing it was also numbers that destroyed them too a HUGE amount of bombers constantly pounding crucial facilities to dust.

[Hood]

I always thought the allies one because they had more people and more stuff?

Nuclear bombs just sped the end up that's all. I'm not even getting into the rights and wrongs of dropping them. The delivery method wasn't special though. It was a bomb dropped from a plane.

Hood

[lonewulf]

In the crucial period Jan. 1944 to September 1944, the Western Allies had the superior technology versus Germany. The Mustang and Spitfire of that time period were superior to the German aircraft they opposed, (primarily the 109G6) and despite not having any better numbers advantage than the Germans had during the BoB, the better aircraft told. .

I'd be very interested to see the basis for your assertion that the western allies didn't have an overwhelming advantage in fighter aircraft in 1944. And given that the numerical advantage the Germans held in single seat fighters at the beginning of BoB was but a few hundred, this doesn't really sound like a particularly useful or valid comparison.

[raaaid]

the truth is that war was won thank to certain unknown churchill brillliant move:

they were losing badly so they influenced the natzis into bombing civilians instead of strategy targets known to be not only harmless in the big scheme of war but besides boosting own war moral

how he did it?

he commanded a 007 small bomber on a full moon to bomb london and make it appear as a natzi raid and as this justify what appeared a retalation(something on the maine style and as some propose 911)

hitler with his philosophy of two eyes for an eye fell for it dumbly

this changed the course of war had this not happened then we would be all praising hitler

[JG52Krupi]

the truth is that war was won thank to certain unknown churchill brillliant move:

they were losing badly so they influenced the natzis into bombing civilians instead of strategy targets known to be not only harmless in the big scheme of war but besides boosting own war moral

how he did it?

he commanded a 007 small bomber on a full moon to bomb london and make it appear as a natzi raid and as this justify what appeared a retalation(something on the maine style and as some propose 911)

hitler with his philosophy of two eyes for an eye fell for it dumbly

this changed the course of war had this not happened then we would be all praising hitler

OMFG... Is that supposed to be funny?

[raaaid]

isnt to much wishfull thinking atribute to coincidence the single most afecting event to war?

are you negating that if the nazis had kept bombing strategic targets and not swithching to bombing civilians they would have had much more chances to win the war?

so do you think the reason why the civilian bombing started was a coincidence?

[FFCW_Urizen]

raaaid, take your meds and steer clear of this thread, thank you very much.

[CWMV]

Sweet Jesus tap-dancing Christ....

[klem]

raaaid, take your meds and steer clear of this thread, thank you very much.

:D

They're not all locked away are they?

[Kaiser]

The Allies won WW II because the US developed the most potent weapon


Allies have destroyed 176 enemy divisions. Red Army - 607 enemy divisions.
You can not ignore the following fact. After the Allied landing largest and the best part of the fascist forces remained in the East.

[JG52Krupi]

Allies have destroyed 176 enemy divisions. Red Army - 607 enemy divisions.
You can not ignore the following fact. After the Allied landing largest and the best part of the fascist forces remained in the East.

They can't but they will ;)

[DD_crash]

It seems to me that the land war was mainly in the east and the air war was in the west.

[FAE_Cazador]

Such a small gap doesn't let the train derail.

One have to put at least 1,50 metres out of the rail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-8gV4DJZUw#!

Right but, here in the banana forums, just one post is enough to derail the whole thread !

Pls don't take offence but, wasn't this thread about the future of BOM? :grin:

Cheers!

[bongodriver]

Right but, here in the banana forums, just one post is enough to derail the whole thread !

Pls don't take offence but, wasn't this thread about the future of BOM? :grin:

Cheers!

Yes it was but someone got the tape measure out and started measuring.....

[major_setback]

Right but, here in the banana forums, just one post is enough to derail the whole thread !

Pls don't take offence but, wasn't this thread about the future of BOM? :grin:

Cheers!

No, no, no...it's about Spitfires being the best planes in the war.
Honestly, it is.
:-)

[WTE_Galway]

Right but, here in the banana forums, just one post is enough to derail the whole thread !

Pls don't take offence but, wasn't this thread about the future of BOM? :grin:

Cheers!

but think of the money you could save laying tracks with a 1.25 metre gap in the rails every 3 metres.

[He111]

Allies have destroyed 176 enemy divisions. Red Army - 607 enemy divisions.
You can not ignore the following fact. After the Allied landing largest and the best part of the fascist forces remained in the East.

Very telling point that the media always ignores.

Thus my point that if Hilter had made an alliance with stalin, i can see it now .. to meglos at dinner together comparing mass-murders, laughing and drinking into the night while the world burns ...

.

[JG52Krupi]

Very telling point that the media always ignores.

Thus my point that if Hilter had made an alliance with stalin, i can see it now .. to meglos at dinner together comparing mass-murders, laughing and drinking into the night while the world burns ...

.

Hitler would never have kept his "no conflict" pact with Stalin, Hitler was a deranged fool who thought that the Russians and Polish were "sub human". It wasn't only Jews that he ordered sent to the concentration camps.

[lonewulf]

Very telling point that the media always ignores.

Thus my point that if Hilter had made an alliance with stalin, i can see it now .. to meglos at dinner together comparing mass-murders, laughing and drinking into the night while the world burns ...

.

Hitler and Stalin did form an alliance of course, the so-called Nazi Soviet Pact in 1939, which is one of the great ironies when you consider that German expansion into the soviet sphere was a stated National Socialist objective; as was the total elimination of European Marxism.

I agree that generally speaking the most significant land engagements fought after 1940 occurred in the East. However, it would be a serious misreading of history to go on and argue that the Soviets are mainly responsible for the defeat of the Axis powers. In essence, without western aid the Soviet armies could not have pushed German forces out of Eastern Europe. Specifically the western allies (and mainly the US) supplied the soviets with over 240,000 trucks and lesser but highly significant quantities of aircraft and tanks as well as vast quantities of other war materials. The supply of western food stocks (SPAM) was crucial to the maintenance of viable soviet land forces up to and following the Battle of Stalingrad. And one shouldn't underestimate the contribution made by British and US land forces prior to the D Day landings in 1944. The campaigns in Italy, Tunisia and the Middle East took an enormous amount of pressure off the Soviets - as did the strategic air campaign over Germany, which the US joined in 1944. The German decision to break off the Kursk offensive, (which the Soviets claimed as a great victory) was largely due to the pressing need to transfer vital armoured units to Tunisia, where an allied success would threaten vital German oil supplies. Frankly, for anyone to even suggest that the Soviets might have defeated the Germans on their own is simply nonsense.

For me the greatest irony of the whole War concerns Poland. Ostensibly the war was fought to secure Polish independence and yet, in the end, after all the blood letting and sacrifice by countless millions, the Poles were sold down the bloody river and handed over to the Soviets. If the whole ugly business wasn't so tragic and shocking one might almost laugh.

[zapatista]

Hitler would never have kept his "no conflict" pact with Stalin, Hitler was a deranged fool who thought that the Russians and Polish were "sub human". It wasn't only Jews that he ordered sent to the concentration camps.

with poland being the country in ww2 where hitler killed the most jews (almost 3.000.000), most people dont realize the germans killed even more polish Catholics in poland then jews. the jewish lobby is just much better at reminding the world of how many of their own tribe got killed, compared to our willfully poor collective west european memory. the genocidal war initiated by the fascists in ww2 was on a massive industrialized scale, and had a disproportionately high death rate amongst civilians. once hitler's henchmen moved into russia the civilian casualty number became apocalyptic, with over 15 million civilians killed (compared to 12 million military russian casualties in the whole of ww2). less then 10% of those civilian casualties in russia were jews. much of that death toll was due to the indiscriminate bombardment and destruction of civilian area's by the germans, but also the executions squads that followed behind the advancing german troops to round up civilians, then mass deportation to concentration camps, and the forced relocation of civilians under starvation conditions etc. for the jewish populations of those central and east european countries however (for ex Poland, Lithuania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc), proportionately jews were more targeted as a subgroup then any other group, and in many of those eastern countries over 90% of them were killed during the german occupation (compared to 50% of jews in belgium, 70% in holland, 25% in france, 10% in denmark etc..)

with those high numbers of russian military deaths (and in the early part of the war 100.000's of russians surrendering, many of whom would later die in captivity), it indicates stalins total disregard to his own population and how he used massive numbers of poorly trained men from other parts of russia to try to halt the german advance, fight them to a standstill, and then push them back (2 years later) . iirc the death ratio on the eastern front was at least around 5 russian soldiers for every german killed. at the time the russians halted the german advances (with germans affected by over stretched supply lines), there was very little allied millitary aid to russia. it was basically the indiscriminate sacrifice of a very high number of russians (both military and civilian) by stalin that stopped the german advances, giving the russians just enough time to start rearming themselves with basic war supplies from factories located further east (combined with the russian winter, during which german equipment and soldiers were under-performing, while the russians performed better).

comparing ww1 and ww2 casualty lists, there is an obvious difference in civilian vs military numbers
WWI 95% of casualties were Military Dead, and 5% Civilian Dead
WWII 33% of casualties were Military Dead and 67% Civilian Dead (with over 80% of all those civilian deaths being in poland and russia)

most of those civilian deaths were caused by the germans as a deliberate act of targeting the "sub human races of the east" (not the jews), which was exacerbated by stalin's total disregard of his own civilians. hitlers main purpose of moving east was to create "lebens raum" (living space) for his german race, and he/they saw the eastern lands as populated by subhumans that could just be exterminated with their land free for the taking. with the russians being fairly poor opponents during the 800 years of the austro-hungarian empire, hitler seriously miscalculated how different an industrialized mechanized war would be against an adversary that significantly outnumbered him, compared to the old days of horse and cart when russia was feudal empire populated by uneducated peasants.

it is no surprise the current russian government is trying to put in place some elements that help remember the terrible death toll and destruction that took place in the east during ww2 (including the possible funding of our il2 flightsim series), so that this theater of war does not get forgotten (or overshadowed by western selective memory of how the war affected them). with western countries dominating the world media and press, their selective remembrance of events that affected these western countries risks creating globally a distorted perspective of the horrors of ww2

[Walrus1]

with poland being the country in ww2 where hitler killed the most jews (almost 3.000.000), most people dont realize the germans killed even more polish Catholics in poland then jews. the jewish lobby is just much better at reminding the world of how many of their own tribe got killed

You are right that millions and millions of Polish Catholics died, and millions of other non Jews in Europe as well, although sources I looked at quoted the number of non Jewish Poles as slightly less than the 3 million Jewish Poles. See this article about the terrible toll on the Polish people, especially the Catholic Clergy in Poland, during the Holocaust.

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=472&CFID=20994420&CFTOKEN=46917956

But there is still a reason that there is a special association of the Holocaust and its Jewish victims.
This quote from the article linked above, sums it up well:
If we must rank the Nazis' victims, it is only right to place the Jews first. They were the primary target of the Nazis. For as long as the Third Reich endured, they bore the full brunt of Nazi hatred. And when the Third Reich collapsed, six million Jews were dead, over one million of them children. The slaughter inflicted on the Slavs, the Gypsies and the other designated victims of the Third Reich was haphazard compared to the systematic annihilation of the Jews. Even the Nazis, those twentieth-century paragons of ruthless efficiency, could not fight a global war, administer occupied territory that covered almost the entire continent of Europe, operate a campaign of genocide against the Jews and cleanse Europe of the tens of millions of other "undesirables."

[arthursmedley]

I agree that generally speaking the most significant land engagements fought after 1940 occurred in the East. However, it would be a serious misreading of history to go on and argue that the Soviets are mainly responsible for the defeat of the Axis powers. In essence, without western aid the Soviet armies could not have pushed German forces out of Eastern Europe. Specifically the western allies (and mainly the US) supplied the soviets with over 240,000 trucks and lesser but highly significant quantities of aircraft and tanks as well as vast quantities of other war materials. The supply of western food stocks (SPAM) was crucial to the maintenance of viable soviet land forces up to and following the Battle of Stalingrad. And one shouldn't underestimate the contribution made by British and US land forces prior to the D Day landings in 1944. The campaigns in Italy, Tunisia and the Middle East took an enormous amount of pressure off the Soviets - as did the strategic air campaign over Germany, which the US joined in 1944. The German decision to break off the Kursk offensive, (which the Soviets claimed as a great victory) was largely due to the pressing need to transfer vital armoured units to Tunisia, where an allied success would threaten vital German oil supplies. Frankly, for anyone to even suggest that the Soviets might have defeated the Germans on their own is simply nonsense.



Laughable and you forgot the bit about the P51 winning the war too!

[major_setback]

Right but, here in the banana forums, just one post is enough to derail the whole thread !

Pls don't take offence but, wasn't this thread about the future of BOM? :grin:

Cheers!

You'd never believe it would you?

Thread history: BoM>Spitfires rule>Why the war was lost/won.

Is there any way to get back on track? Or is this thread a lost cause?

By the way...wouldn't it be a good idea if we paid for multiplayer sessions? This way the revenue would be secured for the future development of the series, and those who are most dedicated to the series would be the ones who contribute most to those future developments.


:-);-):-)




.

[csThor]

Lonewulf is actually right. Soviet truck production was whoefully inadequate even before the war and once the war had started the increased need for tanks lowered it even more (in relative numbers). Without the allied truck deliveries the Red Army's composition and/or performance (after 1943) would have been very different: either they wouldn't have had the enormous amount of tanks due to a modified production schedule or they would not have had the strategic mobility of 1944/45. The real contribution of Lend&Lease was the provision of the logistic part of an army (trucks, food, radios and other technical systems etc) so that the Soviet industry could concentrate fully on producing the sharp tip (aircraft, tanks, artillery). Without either the sweeping offensives of late 1943 and 1944 would not have been possible with the results we know.

[KG26_Alpha]

Nah .....

The war was won right here.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/47999000/jpg/_47999275_bletchley-park.jpg

[5./JG27.Farber]

So much for the thread then, even the mods are in on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPgdzgncG0

[addman]

Nah .....

The war was won right here.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/47999000/jpg/_47999275_bletchley-park.jpg

Aaah, Bletchley Park. Indeed, suddenly the allies new almost every step that the Germans were taking, especially German sub-marine operations were seriously impaired.

[arthursmedley]

Aaah, Bletchley Park. Indeed, suddenly the allies new almost every step that the Germans were taking, especially German sub-marine operations were seriously impaired.



Oh lordy! More nonsense.

[major_setback]

Nah .....

The war was won right here.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/47999000/jpg/_47999275_bletchley-park.jpg

Really, what does this have to do with the original post?

What has this to do with the future of BoM?

[KG26_Alpha]

Really, what does this have to do with the original post?

What has this to do with the future of BoM?

Nothing.

Same as the rest of this thread.

[fruitbat]

what future? :rolleyes:

[zapatista]

Really, what does this have to do with the original post?

What has this to do with the future of BoM?

OK's, back on track !

i think right now all we can do is keep an eye on the russian forums to see if there are any other snippets of information from DEDA being posted, or any further progress reports or updates on BoM development from other russian posters who are closer to the project.

since B6 stopped managing the CoD/BoM forums, our english 1C forums have been left in a bit of an information vacuum. so all we can do is wait for now :)

[WTE_Galway]

Nah .....

The war was won right here.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/47999000/jpg/_47999275_bletchley-park.jpg

Fixed your picture ...





http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/clannagh/drwho.jpg

[lonewulf]

Yup, we came within an inch of the truth and then what do you know 'booomfffffa'; derailed by IC fifth columnists. Bugger!

[Al Schlageter]

Lonewulf is actually right. Soviet truck production was whoefully inadequate even before the war and once the war had started the increased need for tanks lowered it even more (in relative numbers). Without the allied truck deliveries the Red Army's composition and/or performance (after 1943) would have been very different: either they wouldn't have had the enormous amount of tanks due to a modified production schedule or they would not have had the strategic mobility of 1944/45. The real contribution of Lend&Lease was the provision of the logistic part of an army (trucks, food, radios and other technical systems etc) so that the Soviet industry could concentrate fully on producing the sharp tip (aircraft, tanks, artillery). Without either the sweeping offensives of late 1943 and 1944 would not have been possible with the results we know.

http://www.1jma.dk/articles/1jmaarticlelendlease.htm

As of 05/01/45, Soviet truck park

domestic trucks 58,1%
imported trucks 32,8%
captured trucks 9,1%

[csThor]

http://www.1jma.dk/articles/1jmaarticlelendlease.htm

As of 05/01/45, Soviet truck park

domestic trucks 58,1%
imported trucks 32,8%
captured trucks 9,1%

Thanks for the link. Interesting. :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

It seems to me that the land war was mainly in the east and the air war was in the west.

There is a US propaganda film "target for today" (I think) that talks about this as being a deliberate strategy for grinding down the German war machine.

Although there was a major Tactical air war in the east which will hopefully be modeled soon in the BOM sim!

Cheers!

[Kaiser]

In essence, without western aid the Soviet armies could not have pushed German forces out of Eastern Europe. Specifically the western allies (and mainly the US) supplied the soviets with over 240,000 trucks and lesser but highly significant quantities of aircraft and tanks as well as vast quantities of other war materials. The supply of western food stocks (SPAM) was crucial to the maintenance of viable soviet land forces up to and following the Battle of Stalingrad. And one shouldn't underestimate the contribution made by British and US land forces prior to the D Day landings in 1944. .

You in vain think that it is not undervalued.
Financial assistance from the West USSR has a great appreciation.
We store this memory.

But it would be better if the allies fulfilled their promise at the set time ... During the visit of the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs Molotov to London and Washington allies have promised a few months later disembark at continental Europe. But they have not made this neither in 1942 nor in 1943, when we were carrying particularly heavy losses. From May 1942 to June 1944, while the Allies been putting off the opening of the second front in the fierce battles left more than 5.5 million Soviet troops.
And other important nuance. If for us a problem of a second front was a matter of life and deaths of millions of Soviet people, for the Allies it was an issue strategy: where appropriate to disembark? They had landed in Europe, hoping determine the advantageous post-war map of the world. The more so was already obvious that the Red Army independently able end this war and get out on the coast of the English Channel, providing the USSR for the winner leading role in the postwar reconstruction of of Europe. What the Allies could not allow.

As for supplies lend-lease, we must understand if Hitler took possession resources of the USSR, the next on turn would be Britain. Churchill as a wise politician could not allow of this.
And after all if to look at the history of impartially, all countries of the world then, except Germany and its allies, looked at the Soviet peoples with hope. June 22, 1941, Winston Churchill stated that although he and anti-communist, but the security of Great Britain and the U.S. is now entirely in the hands of Russia. June 24 a similar speech said, and the American President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Newspaper Times, mouthpiece of financier-oligarchical elites of the West, has also stated that the fate of humanity is decided on the Eastern Front. Today reminisce then in effect, the whole world behind the scenes reached for our country as a magic wand, few want. Therefore through myths and falsifications of role of the USSR in war every way lowered.

[klem]

You in vain think that it is not undervalued.
Financial assistance from the West USSR has a great appreciation.
We store this memory.

But it would be better if the allies fulfilled their promise at the set time ... During the visit of the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs Molotov to London and Washington allies have promised a few months later disembark at continental Europe. But they have not made this neither in 1942 nor in 1943, when we were carrying particularly heavy losses. From May 1942 to June 1944, while the Allies been putting off the opening of the second front in the fierce battles left more than 5.5 million Soviet troops.
And other important nuance. If for us a problem of a second front was a matter of life and deaths of millions of Soviet people, for the Allies it was an issue strategy: where appropriate to disembark? They had landed in Europe, hoping determine the advantageous post-war map of the world. The more so was already obvious that the Red Army independently able end this war and get out on the coast of the English Channel, providing the USSR for the winner leading role in the postwar reconstruction of of Europe. What the Allies could not allow.

As for supplies lend-lease, we must understand if Hitler took possession resources of the USSR, the next on turn would be Britain. Churchill as a wise politician could not allow of this.
And after all if to look at the history of impartially, all countries of the world then, except Germany and its allies, looked at the Soviet peoples with hope. June 22, 1941, Winston Churchill stated that although he and anti-communist, but the security of Great Britain and the U.S. is now entirely in the hands of Russia. June 24 a similar speech said, and the American President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Newspaper Times, mouthpiece of financier-oligarchical elites of the West, has also stated that the fate of humanity is decided on the Eastern Front. Today reminisce then in effect, the whole world behind the scenes reached for our country as a magic wand, few want. Therefore through myths and falsifications of role of the USSR in war every way lowered.

All true except that the Allies were not in a position to launch a successfuil invasion before June '44. Even then it was not an "easy victory". I expect Stalin would have liked them to try and destroy themselves on the beaches while drawing German forces away from the East and leaving Europe open to him although its not certain he would have succeeded without the Allies strategic devastation of the German war machine and logistics capability. I believe Stalin had no Strategic air capability of his own. In any case my own belief is that Hitler could never win a war against the Soviet Union. The Allies were well aware of Stalin's appetite for the rest of Europe and History shows that he was as bad as Hitler in many ways. Even so, the Allies had to watch Poland (the reason the West went to war) and other countries slip from one oppressive dictator to another. But its true, the Soviets suffered huge casualties on the Eastern Front. The Eastern Front was the WWII killing ground that mirrored the Western Front killing ground in WWI, only more so.

[Al Schlageter]

Kaiser, have you heard of a place called Dieppe?

I did not know that Italy was not part of continental Europe.

[*Buzzsaw*]

You in vain think that it is not undervalued.
Financial assistance from the West USSR has a great appreciation.
We store this memory.

But it would be better if the allies fulfilled their promise at the set time ... During the visit of the Soviet Commissar for Foreign Affairs Molotov to London and Washington allies have promised a few months later disembark at continental Europe. But they have not made this neither in 1942 nor in 1943, when we were carrying particularly heavy losses. From May 1942 to June 1944, while the Allies been putting off the opening of the second front in the fierce battles left more than 5.5 million Soviet troops.
And other important nuance. If for us a problem of a second front was a matter of life and deaths of millions of Soviet people, for the Allies it was an issue strategy: where appropriate to disembark? They had landed in Europe, hoping determine the advantageous post-war map of the world. The more so was already obvious that the Red Army independently able end this war and get out on the coast of the English Channel, providing the USSR for the winner leading role in the postwar reconstruction of of Europe. What the Allies could not allow.

As for supplies lend-lease, we must understand if Hitler took possession resources of the USSR, the next on turn would be Britain. Churchill as a wise politician could not allow of this.
And after all if to look at the history of impartially, all countries of the world then, except Germany and its allies, looked at the Soviet peoples with hope. June 22, 1941, Winston Churchill stated that although he and anti-communist, but the security of Great Britain and the U.S. is now entirely in the hands of Russia. June 24 a similar speech said, and the American President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Newspaper Times, mouthpiece of financier-oligarchical elites of the West, has also stated that the fate of humanity is decided on the Eastern Front. Today reminisce then in effect, the whole world behind the scenes reached for our country as a magic wand, few want. Therefore through myths and falsifications of role of the USSR in war every way lowered.

In 1942 and 1943 the Western Allies inflicted quite a number of casualties on the German and Italian Armies as well as diverting after November of 1942, the majority of the Luftwaffe. They captured over 250,000 men in Tunisia, and invaded Sicily and Italy, driving Italy out of the war, and forcing the Germans to send large numbers of troops to Italy to maintain their lines there. At the height of the Kursk battle, the Germans were forced to send their elite 1st and 2nd SS Panzer divisions, plus quite a number of other Panzer and Panzergrenadier divisions to Italy from the East Front. So to say the fact that the Western Allies did not invade France in 1943 was a failure on their part is not completely accurate.

There is no question the Soviets did the majority of the fighting on the ground on the European Front in WWII, no one can deny their contributions and suffering. At no time was less than 50% of the Wehrmacht deployed on the East Front, much of the time the figure was closer to 65%.

Still the facts are WWII was won by an alliance of countries fighting against Germany, Italy and Japan. The Japanese were beaten by the Americans and British fighting on their own, the Soviet declaration of war in 1945 had almost no effect on the outcome in the Pacific and was more a political decision by Stalin to allow him to occupy parts of Manchuria and Korea for resource rather than for noble reasons.

The Soviets would have had much more difficulty in succeeding had they not had the assistance of American and British Lendlease in the form of supplies and war materials. Fuel supplied, or things such as locomotive engines are sometimes overlooked when the overall contributions are accounted for.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

A real examination of the facts would show that Germany should have been defeated in the first year of a war with the Soviet Union.

Why were they not?

One answer: Stalin

The Soviets had one of the most advanced armies in the world in 1936, with tanks which were superior to others, aircraft which were on a par, and leaders who were innovative and far thinking. Marshal Mikhail Tukhachevsky was a brilliant tank theorist who was a leading Marshal in the thirties, he invented armour use doctrines know as "Deep Operations" which mirrored the German Blitzkrieg tactics of deep penetration by armoured forces and the surrounding and pocketing of enemy forces. He created the beginnings of a Soviet tank force which would have been a dangerous opponent for the Germans.

But Stalin perceived him as a political opponent, and set a series of false accusations during the purges of 1936 which led to a show trial and the execution of Tukhachevsky. With him went the needed reforms to the Soviet Army. Worse, almost all the innovative officers who were supporters of him were also purged, many executed or sent to the Gulags. In their place Stalin appointed old incompetent cronies of himself, yes men and toadies who were selected on the basis of their unquestioning loyalty, not for their skills as officers.

As WWII started, the Soviet army was in a state of paralysis, commanded by incompetents who were afraid to speak out regarding needed reforms or new ideas lest they too would be either shot or sent to Siberia.

And Stalin added to this failure by refusing to acknowledge the warnings the Germans were about to invade. He insisted troops not prepare defenses, not plan for a German attack and not make any movements which might give offense to Hitler. This happened despite reports from his own troops of German reconnaissance overflights, infiltration by German scouts, etc. etc.

The result was that on May 22nd 1941 the Soviets were caught completely unprepared, and the commanders on the spot were frozen in place because of Stalin's insistence no one had authority to respond until he gave his personal say so.

The Soviets had their armies on the Frontier nearly completely destroyed in a matter of a few weeks.

It wasn't till Stalin retreated into a depression in the fall of 1941, leaving most of the running of the war to his generals that the situation began to recover. That and the fact that many of the disgraced and purged officers were brought back to positions of authority. Generals like Rokossovsky, one of the premier tank commanders of the war on the Soviet side, and the man who led Operation Bagration, also known as the 'Destruction of Army Group Center', was an example.

All of the tactical doctrine formulated by Tukhachevsky was re-adopted by the Soviet Army and formed the basis of the tactics used at Stalingrad, Kursk and other major battles.

Had the Soviet Army been led by Tukhachevsky at the beginning of the war, with his armoured doctrine and formations in place, there is very little doubt in my mind the Germans would have run into a brick wall, and been soundly defeated.

[lonewulf]

Salute

A real examination of the facts would show that Germany should have been defeated in the first year of a war with the Soviet Union.

Why were they not?

One answer: Stalin

The Soviets had one of the most advanced armies in the world in 1936, with tanks which were superior to others, aircraft which were on a par, and leaders who were innovative and far thinking. Marshal Mikhail Tukhachevsky was a brilliant tank theorist who was a leading Marshal in the thirties, he invented armour use doctrines know as "Deep Operations" which mirrored the German Blitzkrieg tactics of deep penetration by armoured forces and the surrounding and pocketing of enemy forces. He created the beginnings of a Soviet tank force which would have been a dangerous opponent for the Germans.

But Stalin perceived him as a political opponent, and set a series of false accusations during the purges of 1936 which led to a show trial and the execution of Tukhachevsky. With him went the needed reforms to the Soviet Army. Worse, almost all the innovative officers who were supporters of him were also purged, many executed or sent to the Gulags. In their place Stalin appointed old incompetent cronies of himself, yes men and toadies who were selected on the basis of their unquestioning loyalty, not for their skills as officers.

As WWII started, the Soviet army was in a state of paralysis, commanded by incompetents who were afraid to speak out regarding needed reforms or new ideas lest they too would be either shot or sent to Siberia.

And Stalin added to this failure by refusing to acknowledge the warnings the Germans were about to invade. He insisted troops not prepare defenses, not plan for a German attack and not make any movements which might give offense to Hitler. This happened despite reports from his own troops of German reconnaissance overflights, infiltration by German scouts, etc. etc.

The result was that on May 22nd 1941 the Soviets were caught completely unprepared, and the commanders on the spot were frozen in place because of Stalin's insistence no one had authority to respond until he gave his personal say so.

The Soviets had their armies on the Frontier nearly completely destroyed in a matter of a few weeks.

It wasn't till Stalin retreated into a depression in the fall of 1941, leaving most of the running of the war to his generals that the situation began to recover. That and the fact that many of the disgraced and purged officers were brought back to positions of authority. Generals like Rokossovsky, one of the premier tank commanders of the war on the Soviet side, and the man who led Operation Bagration, also known as the 'Destruction of Army Group Center', was an example.

All of the tactical doctrine formulated by Tukhachevsky was re-adopted by the Soviet Army and formed the basis of the tactics used at Stalingrad, Kursk and other major battles.

Had the Soviet Army been led by Tukhachevsky at the beginning of the war, with his armoured doctrine and formations in place, there is very little doubt in my mind the Germans would have run into a brick wall, and been soundly defeated.

Yeah well, we'll never really know will we, because that isn't the way events played out. Hitler attacked the Soviets on the basis on the facts as he understood them to be at the time. The leadership of the Red Army had been all but annihilated throughout the 1930s, as you note. That he also knew. The consequences of those purges became apparent for all to see during the Winter War in 1939, when the Finns inflicted horrendous casualties on the Soviets (perhaps as many as 2 million men) by some accounts. It has also been noted elsewhere that Stalin's decision to systematically murder virtually the entire leadership of the Red Army may have come about through a dis-information campaign launched by the Germans. Whatever the truth of the matter, it was clear for all to see that the Red Army was in a very vulnerable state by 1941. Given that a confrontation between National Socialism and Soviet-style Marxist Leninism appeared inevitable, an attack on the Soviets in 1941 is not as absurd as it may at first appear. As events in the East unfolded, the Germans came very close to achieving their overall objectives. In 1942, very few people would have bet on a Soviet victory.

As regard's German so-called Blitzkrieg tactics, these are more myth than reality. There was nothing revolutionary about German combined arms tactics in 1939-41 and in reality these were just an extension of the tactics developed by the Germans in 1914-18. Although the Germans were no doubt flattered by the attention their endeavours received in 1939-40, they tended to attribute their battlefield successes to the fighting spirit of their soldiers, which they believed, and with very good reason, to be second to none (National Socialist furvour no doubt playing a role here). Blitzkrieg, as a concept, was essentially invented by the defeated western powers to explain and cover-up their dismal performance and subsequent defeat during the Battle of France.

Those who disagree with this view should have a hard look, in first instance, at the tanks the Germans were supposedly intending to use to spearhead their "revolutionary" new tactics in Poland and France. In the main these were composed of Panzer I and IIs, both essentially training vehicles and both essentially obsolete in 1939. The French Char B and the British Matildas, for example, easily out gunned and out-armoured their German counterparts and should have and could have easily eliminated their thin-skinned German opposition – if correctly used. The French air force, which was easily a match for the Germans on paper, simply failed to put in an appearance. The success of the German's Sickle-cut plan, which was an improvisation put together in haste in 1940, was very much due to the sheer guts and determination of the men charged with it's execution. A properly organized French defence could have and should have stopped it in its tracks, but in the face of German resolve, that defence simply crumbled away.

[MadBlaster]

you need to play more open general /panzer general 2. you forget, the 88 mm anti-tank guns. :-P

[csThor]

Pardon my french, lonewolf, but 'Nuts!' The term "Blitzkrieg" is indeed no german invention but of course Goebbels was quick to utilize it. In a few significant sectors, especially in doctrine and force structure, the Wehrmacht was clearly ahead of its western opponents - be it the french with their defensively minded idea of warfare and tanks which couldn't decide whether to be infantry support or "exploitation" (and in the end they were neither) nor the british with the problems the nasty feuds of the 20s and 30s had left behind and which was mirrored in the ineffective structure of their forces (especially the armored divisions which were no combined arms formations in 1940). The doctrinal environment the term "Blitzkrieg" describes is nothing more than the traditional prusso-german way of war just with the added element of tanks and aircraft - it reenabled the Wehrmacht to prosecute the war as a war of movement on the operational level, just like its great ancestors under the Great Elector Friedrich Wilhelm of Brandenburg-Preussen, Friedrich II or Moltke the Elder.

If I may offer a book recommendation: Robert M Citino "The German way of War". ;)

[WTE_Galway]

Guderian attributed much of the early German success to the "operational" level of planning between tactical and strategic which only existed informally in other armed forces.

Also bear in mind that Adolf Hitler's tendency to favor and encourage bold unusual and slightly risky ideas and plans (capturing the massive Belgian fortress Eben-Emael by landing gliders on top of it for example) worked against the Germans later in the war when caution was advised but it was usually to their benefit in these early years.

[*Buzzsaw*]

As regard's German so-called Blitzkrieg tactics, these are more myth than reality. There was nothing revolutionary about German combined arms tactics in 1939-41 and in reality these were just an extension of the tactics developed by the Germans in 1914-18.

Gonna have to disagree with you. Ludendorff's "Kaiserschlact" attacks of Spring 1918 used none of the concept of deep penetration and attack on rear objectives which were characteristic of German armoured doctrine in WWII. Yes, the Stossstruppen used infiltration techniques on a tactical level which involved bypassing strongpoints instead of assaulting them, but there was no combined arms with tanks, the Germans barely had any tanks available. And Ludendorff did not know how to exploit his initial successes, he had no plan to feed reserves through the holes he created, and get into the Allied rear areas. In fact, the Allied commanders in WWI were much better at exploiting success than the Germans, they managed to break the conflict out into open countryside out of the trenches by October of 1918 in their counter-offensive.


Although the Germans were no doubt flattered by the attention their endeavours received in 1939-40, they tended to attribute their battlefield successes to the fighting spirit of their soldiers, which they believed, and with very good reason, to be second to none (National Socialist furvour no doubt playing a role here).

Gonna have to disagree with you again. Ironically the Wehrmacht under Adolf Hitler, a totalitarian dictator who insisted on complete obedience to his wishes, was actually the most democratic institution in Nazi Germany. Initiative in this new German army was encouraged on all levels, junior Wehrmacht officers, even NCO's were encouraged to take decisions which in other armies, such as the French and British, would be referred upwards in the chain of command, hence causing delays and failures to exploit opportunities. Some of the greatest successes the Germans achieved were as a result of junior commanders following this spirit of initiative, and ignoring the directions of their superiors. In the Battle of France, both Guderian and Rommel ignored Hitler's and their superior's orders to stop short after crossing the Meuse, and instead drove forwards at a relentless pace because they knew they had the French on the run. Only the Americans developed a Officer corps which was capable of showing the same level of initiative in the junior levels. There was not a lot of "National Socialist" fervour in the Wehrmacht, to the contrary, it was the largest source of opposition to Hitler once he started to run into trouble. Yes, Hitler did create an elite body of troops in the SS Panzertruppen, who were committed Nazis, but surprisingly, if you look at their combat record, they were no more effective, in many cases worse, than the standard Wehrmacht Panzer divisions. The Divisions with the best record in the German army were the 116th Panzer Division, and the 2nd Panzer Division. Look at the Battle of the Ardennes. The 6th Panzer Army under SS General Seip Dietrich, all SS Divisions, failed in its breakout attempt, despite much better equipment. The Wehrmacht Panzer divisions in the 5th Panzer Army, under Wehrmacht General Manteuffel were the ones who actually broke out through the American lines and made the deepest penetration. Unfortunately for them, and fortunately for the rest of us, the lead Panzer Divisions ran out of fuel just short of the Meuse river and were surrounded and slaughtered by one of the US Army's best Tank commanders, Ernest Harmon of the 2nd Armoured division. Contrary to the myths perpetuated by the Patton cheerleading section, this was the real critical moment of the Battle not the relief of Bastogne.

Those who disagree with this view should have a hard look, in first instance, at the tanks the Germans were supposedly intending to use to spearhead their "revolutionary" new tactics in Poland and France. In the main these were composed of Panzer I and IIs, both essentially training vehicles and both essentially obsolete in 1939. The French Char B and the British Matildas, for example, easily out gunned and out-armoured their German counterparts and should have and could have easily eliminated their thin-skinned German opposition – if correctly used. The French air force, which was easily a match for the Germans on paper, simply failed to put in an appearance. The success of the German's Sickle-cut plan, which was an improvisation put together in haste in 1940, was very much due to the sheer guts and determination of the men charged with it's execution. A properly organized French defence could have and should have stopped it in its tracks, but in the face of German resolve, that defence simply crumbled away.

Again, you are ignoring the facts. In the case of Poland, the Polish had only 45 tanks, which were obsolete R35's. In fact, by far the majority of the French tank forces were comprised of these same obsolete Renault R35 tanks dating from 1933. These had weak armour, a low velocity inaccurate 37mm gun designed for fighting infantry, and were not a match for the Panzer II's high velocity 20mm, which were the majority of the German tank force. The 20mm on the Panzer II could penetrate the R35's turret at 100 meters, the 37mm on the R35 could not penetrate the Panzer. The Panzer II was a fine tank, quite fast and maneuverable for its time, it had a top speed of 40km/hr compared to 20 km/hr for the R35. In addition, almost all French tanks had no radios, which meant the tanks could not work in concert, and their commanders had to load and fire as well as call out maneuver commands, something which did not work in practice. Imagine leaning out your turret and waving a flag to try to get the remainder of your tank platoon to follow a direction... Yes, there were some Char B's and Somua S-35's, but they were the minority, the next most numerous French Tank was the Hotchkiss H35, which was as slow as the R35, and had the same poor gun, with weaker armour, which was notorious for bad manufacturing and weak spots which were easily penetrated. The most numerous British tank was the Mk VIA, which was very much inferior to the Panzer II, having weak armour and a MG as armament. There were very few Matildas.

And the French airforce was not a match for the Germans, they had nowhere near the same number of Squadrons in the air, their infrastructure could not support the number of aircraft they had in reserve. Also the Morane 406, the most numerous French fighter was simply not a match for the 109E. Only the Curtis H75 and Dewoitine 520 were a match and the 520 was manufactured in small numbers while the Curtiss was an American import. (Curtiss H-75's shot down more German aircraft than any other French manned fighter)

[lonewulf]

Pardon my french, lonewolf, but 'Nuts!' The term "Blitzkrieg" is indeed no german invention but of course Goebbels was quick to utilize it. In a few significant sectors, especially in doctrine and force structure, the Wehrmacht was clearly ahead of its western opponents - be it the french with their defensively minded idea of warfare and tanks which couldn't decide whether to be infantry support or "exploitation" (and in the end they were neither) nor the british with the problems the nasty feuds of the 20s and 30s had left behind and which was mirrored in the ineffective structure of their forces (especially the armored divisions which were no combined arms formations in 1940). The doctrinal environment the term "Blitzkrieg" describes is nothing more than the traditional prusso-german way of war just with the added element of tanks and aircraft - it reenabled the Wehrmacht to prosecute the war as a war of movement on the operational level, just like its great ancestors under the Great Elector Friedrich Wilhelm of Brandenburg-Preussen, Friedrich II or Moltke the Elder.

If I may offer a book recommendation: Robert M Citino "The German way of War". ;)

Yeah well, nuts to you too m8 :grin:

Actually, I'm not sure my position is all that different from your own.

I said: "There was nothing revolutionary about German combined arms tactics in 1939-41 and in reality these were just an extension of the tactics developed by the Germans in 1914-18."

[csThor]

The "Nuts" was really more aimed at your comments re "fervour" and "NS indoctrinization". In fact I'd hesitate to make such broad statements on any armed forces. I'd not attribute the Red Army of 1945 a particularly "communist fervour", rather the ancient concept of "the victor takes it all". ;)

[csThor]

@ Buzzsaw

The better equipment of the Waffen-SS is pretty much as mystical as many urban myths about WW2. For example even in 1944 none of the german Panzer Divisions, regardless whether they were Heer or Waffen-SS, had enough half-tracks to equip its two Panzergrenadier Regiments with them. So even the "elite" SS never got everything it wanted. It often needed more replacements because these divisions tended to get the "suicide assignments" and suffered accordingly.

And as for the Ardennes Offensive ... Sepp Dietrich himself said it best.

"All Hitler wants me to do is to cross a river, capture Brussels, and then go on and take Antwerp! And all this in the worst time of the year through the Ardennes, where the snow is waist deep and there isn't room to deploy four tanks abreast, let alone panzer divisions! Where it doesn't get light until eight and it's dark again at four and with reformed divisions made up chiefly of kids and sick old men - and at Christmas!"

I recently purchased the excellent "The Battle of the Bulge - Then and Now" because I want to make an accurate model of a King Tiger of schwere SS-Panzerabteilung 501 and the advance of Panzergruppe Peiper was held up mostly by the atrocious state of the roads and timely destruction of key river crossings by the US forces. This, in turn, forced them into the confrontation at Stoumont - La Gleize and thwarted any chance of a decisive breakthrough. The whole idea of "Wacht am Rhein" was ludicrous given the looming Red Army in the East ...

[Insuber]

No news on future of BOM.

[klem]

lonewulf, sorry to add to the pile, but a flaw in your statement about Hitlers objective in Russia retains the flaw in Hitler's own perception of victory in Russia.

Hitler believed that by capturing Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad etc he would defeat Russia, because the Russians would capitulate. He wouldn't have because they wouldn't have. Stalin would have (and was already) withdrawing Eastward where he was relocating his production facilities and rebuilding his forces as well as drawing on forces from Mongolia etc. If Hitler did not pursue him Stalin would have re-built and come back against him as he did in any case and with far superior numbers and equipment (for the region). If Hitler did pursue him through the sccorched earth of Russia he would have been unable to sustain his forces and eventually he would have been crushed, as in fact happened to his 6th Army when he was no-where near as stretched. He may have captured the Caucuses and the Ukraine wheat fields but sustained forces means both supplies and men and I don't think he had the manpower to stretch that far. These are the reasons why I don't think Hitler could ever have defeated Russia. His perception of victory was flawed.

The Russians might have welcomed Hitler with open arms after Stalin but as Hitler had pronounced them sub-human and the German forces took full advantage of their conquest with killings, rapings, destruction, etc, the Russians weren't likely to take kindly to the Germans.

[klem]

No news on future of BOM.

ooops, we got a bit OT :(

[Insuber]

ooops, we got a bit OT :(

Normal. Horror vacui. Natura abhorret a vacuo. Nature abhors a vacuum.

[SlipBall]

No news on future of BOM.


One week has passed since, lets hope some word this Friday:-P

[Insuber]

One week has passed since, lets hope some word this Friday:-P

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.
Albert Einstein

[lonewulf]

Gonna have to disagree with you. Ludendorff's "Kaiserschlact" attacks of Spring 1918 used none of the concept of deep penetration and attack on rear objectives which were characteristic of German armoured doctrine in WWII. Yes, the Stossstruppen used infiltration techniques on a tactical level which involved bypassing strongpoints instead of assaulting them, but there was no combined arms with tanks, the Germans barely had any tanks available. And Ludendorff did not know how to exploit his initial successes, he had no plan to feed reserves through the holes he created, and get into the Allied rear areas. In fact, the Allied commanders in WWI were much better at exploiting success than the Germans, they managed to break the conflict out into open countryside out of the trenches by October of 1918 in their counter-offensive.



Gonna have to disagree with you again. Ironically the Wehrmacht under Adolf Hitler, a totalitarian dictator who insisted on complete obedience to his wishes, was actually the most democratic institution in Nazi Germany. Initiative in this new German army was encouraged on all levels, junior Wehrmacht officers, even NCO's were encouraged to take decisions which in other armies, such as the French and British, would be referred upwards in the chain of command, hence causing delays and failures to exploit opportunities. Some of the greatest successes the Germans achieved were as a result of junior commanders following this spirit of initiative, and ignoring the directions of their superiors. In the Battle of France, both Guderian and Rommel ignored Hitler's and their superior's orders to stop short after crossing the Meuse, and instead drove forwards at a relentless pace because they knew they had the French on the run. Only the Americans developed a Officer corps which was capable of showing the same level of initiative in the junior levels. There was not a lot of "National Socialist" fervour in the Wehrmacht, to the contrary, it was the largest source of opposition to Hitler once he started to run into trouble. Yes, Hitler did create an elite body of troops in the SS Panzertruppen, who were committed Nazis, but surprisingly, if you look at their combat record, they were no more effective, in many cases worse, than the standard Wehrmacht Panzer divisions. The Divisions with the best record in the German army were the 116th Panzer Division, and the 2nd Panzer Division. Look at the Battle of the Ardennes. The 6th Panzer Army under SS General Seip Dietrich, all SS Divisions, failed in its breakout attempt, despite much better equipment. The Wehrmacht Panzer divisions in the 5th Panzer Army, under Wehrmacht General Manteuffel were the ones who actually broke out through the American lines and made the deepest penetration. Unfortunately for them, and fortunately for the rest of us, the lead Panzer Divisions ran out of fuel just short of the Meuse river and were surrounded and slaughtered by one of the US Army's best Tank commanders, Ernest Harmon of the 2nd Armoured division. Contrary to the myths perpetuated by the Patton cheerleading section, this was the real critical moment of the Battle not the relief of Bastogne.



Again, you are ignoring the facts. In the case of Poland, the Polish had only 45 tanks, which were obsolete R35's. In fact, by far the majority of the French tank forces were comprised of these same obsolete Renault R35 tanks dating from 1933. These had weak armour, a low velocity inaccurate 37mm gun designed for fighting infantry, and were not a match for the Panzer II's high velocity 20mm, which were the majority of the German tank force. The 20mm on the Panzer II could penetrate the R35's turret at 100 meters, the 37mm on the R35 could not penetrate the Panzer. The Panzer II was a fine tank, quite fast and maneuverable for its time, it had a top speed of 40km/hr compared to 20 km/hr for the R35. In addition, almost all French tanks had no radios, which meant the tanks could not work in concert, and their commanders had to load and fire as well as call out maneuver commands, something which did not work in practice. Imagine leaning out your turret and waving a flag to try to get the remainder of your tank platoon to follow a direction... Yes, there were some Char B's and Somua S-35's, but they were the minority, the next most numerous French Tank was the Hotchkiss H35, which was as slow as the R35, and had the same poor gun, with weaker armour, which was notorious for bad manufacturing and weak spots which were easily penetrated. The most numerous British tank was the Mk VIA, which was very much inferior to the Panzer II, having weak armour and a MG as armament. There were very few Matildas.

And the French airforce was not a match for the Germans, they had nowhere near the same number of Squadrons in the air, their infrastructure could not support the number of aircraft they had in reserve. Also the Morane 406, the most numerous French fighter was simply not a match for the 109E. Only the Curtis H75 and Dewoitine 520 were a match and the 520 was manufactured in small numbers while the Curtiss was an American import. (Curtiss H-75's shot down more German aircraft than any other French manned fighter)


I think we're essentially arguing around the margins here but maybe I’m just not explaining myself very well. All of the principles employed by the Germans in their assault on France and the Low countries were known to the western allies prior to 1940. Most of the combined arms principles used in the course of the German assault had in fact been pioneered in WW 1 or well before. Tank tactics, the concept of armoured thrusts and breakthroughs etc were international concepts by the 1920s and 30s and certainly not the exclusive preserve of the German Army. The Germans essentially continued where they had left off at the end of in WW 1 and with further refinements employed these same tactics again in 1939-40. But crucially, it was not beyond the powers of the French to stop them. German supply lines, which were strung out along a very narrow front were highly vulnerable and at absolute breaking point and sometimes beyond breaking point during the German drive for the coast. However, the French failed to seize the initiative and exploit this glaring weakness. French leadership utterly failed at the critical moment. It was this failure rather than the introduction of new unheralded tactical innovations that secured a German victory. And yes, I agree about the greater abundance of initiative among German officers and NCOs during critical moments during the assault, but what has this to do with Blitzkrieg? If anything it simply reinforces my point that even if the Germans were making use of unheard of tactical innovations during the assault (they weren't), they could only take the invaders so far, and on numerous occasions, the assault would have stalled or failed had it not been for the willingness of small units and in some cases individuals to undertake extraordinary feats of arms to ensure its success.

[fruitbat]

It was the Battle of Amiens (8th aug 1918 )that was the first to incorporate an all-armed co-ordinated attack, bringing together artillery, tanks, infantry and aircraft, for the first time, by the British, not the Germans......

And to those who still believe there is a BoM coming, big lol's.....

[lonewulf]

lonewulf, sorry to add to the pile, but a flaw in your statement about Hitlers objective in Russia retains the flaw in Hitler's own perception of victory in Russia.

Hitler believed that by capturing Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad etc he would defeat Russia, because the Russians would capitulate. He wouldn't have because they wouldn't have. Stalin would have (and was already) withdrawing Eastward where he was relocating his production facilities and rebuilding his forces as well as drawing on forces from Mongolia etc. If Hitler did not pursue him Stalin would have re-built and come back against him as he did in any case and with far superior numbers and equipment (for the region). If Hitler did pursue him through the sccorched earth of Russia he would have been unable to sustain his forces and eventually he would have been crushed, as in fact happened to his 6th Army when he was no-where near as stretched. He may have captured the Caucuses and the Ukraine wheat fields but sustained forces means both supplies and men and I don't think he had the manpower to stretch that far. These are the reasons why I don't think Hitler could ever have defeated Russia. His perception of victory was flawed.

The Russians might have welcomed Hitler with open arms after Stalin but as Hitler had pronounced them sub-human and the German forces took full advantage of their conquest with killings, rapings, destruction, etc, the Russians weren't likely to take kindly to the Germans.

I don't agree with this. If anything it was Hitler, rather than his generals, who understood that it was the control of resources, rather than bricks and mortar, that would determine ultimate victory. That is why he withdrew from the Battle for Moscow and thrust towards Stalingrad and the Volga because he understood the economic significance of the Volga to the survival of the Soviet Union. And it was also Hitler who understood that, despite the claims to the contrary, the Soviets didn't have unlimited man power. By the end of the war the Soviets, like everyone else, were beginning to scrape the bottom of the barrel. That is why Hitler insisted on unwavering defense because he knew that wasteful Soviet tactics worked ultimately in his favour.

And while I think much can be said about the disgraceful behaviour of German forces in the East during the War, I am not aware that they had a reputation for rape. The Red Army on the other hand had a well documented propensity for this type of behaviour.

[fruitbat]

I don't agree with this. If anything it was Hitler, rather than his generals, who understood that it was the control of resources, rather than bricks and mortar, that would determine ultimate victory. That is why he withdrew from the Battle for Moscow and thrust towards Stalingrad and the Volga because he understood the economic significance of the Volga to the survival of the Soviet Union.

umm, the original point of Fall Blau was to attack the Caucasus to capture the vital Soviet oil fields there, it was Hitler who got hung up on Stalingrad, which had no resource benefit at all.......

[JG52Krupi]

Right okay I know I was part of the thread derailment but please use a different thread.

Stick to the topic please!

[raaaid]

yeah having helped also to derailed the thread i created a new one on who won the war i dont like to discuss rumours so ill stay out of this thread

[Kaiser]

All true except that the Allies were not in a position to launch a successfuil invasion before June '44.

In the U.S. shipyard in 1943 "produced an unprecedented number of ships" in 1943, the American shipyard launched the merchant ships with a total tonnage 19.2 million deadweight tons, which exceeded more than twice the tonnage of the vessels built in 1942
Makalvi in ​​1965, claims that plans landings across the English Channel in August 1943 were unrealistic because "in 1942, the Allies suffered heavy losses in the courts, when the losses were greater than the possibility of their completion." However, the American historian McInnis immediately after the war, published data, which indicate that in 1943, the American shipyard launches tonnage "is ten times more than the tonnage of their losses." American historian McNeill in 1953, only slightly McInnis said. He concluded that by August 1943 the "new tonnage is nine times higher than the loss of tonnage from all causes".
During the years of World War II, the U.S. built merchant ships with a total displacement of 33 million tons, and the military - to 8 million tons.
In August 1943, the British merchant fleet tonnage, despite Poterna is maintained at a high level and amounted to 13.5 million tons.
Status of the sea was so prosperous that in early August 1943 Chiefs had to officially inform the chairman of the military production that they are no longer considered a bottleneck merchant navy for the war overseas.
On the eve of the Tehran conference in Cairo, the special Anglo-American Conference, which found that "the review of applications for the court rather than the estimated total deficiency in tonnage on the adopted plan to get even some slack". After this, the JCP strategic operations was forced to admit that there was an opportunity to "provide for scheduled maritime and ground operations."
American journalist Ralph Ingersoll in the acclaimed book "The Secret" refers to a conference in Quebec (August 1943), which found that, "for the plan" Overlord "(the plan landing of British and American troops in Northern France. - VS ) existing landing craft is not enough ... ". But when experts have carefully studied all the possibilities, says British military historian Herman, and especially to investigate the possibility of rational use of the merchant navy, it was found that "the strategic plans are not threatened by the lack of real courts, and a flaw that actually existed only on paper"
Joint Planning Committee, presented at a conference in Quebec report, which noted that "the operation planned for throughout 1943 and into the summer of 1944, provided a sufficient number of amphibious ships, vessels and resources"

[FAE_Cazador]

OK's, back on track !

i think right now all we can do is keep an eye on the russian forums to see if there are any other snippets of information from DEDA being posted, or any further progress reports or updates on BoM development from other russian posters who are closer to the project.

since B6 stopped managing the CoD/BoM forums, our english 1C forums have been left in a bit of an information vacuum. so all we can do is wait for now :)

Back on track :)

This is reminding me the old Cold War years "Kremlinology"

From Wikipedia:

"Lack of reliable information about the country (USSR) forced Western analysts to "read between the lines" and to use the tiniest tidbits, such as the removal of portraits, the rearranging of chairs, positions at the reviewing stand for parades in Red Square, the choice of capital or small initial letters in phrases such as "First Secretary", the arrangement of articles on the pages of the party newspaper "Pravda" and other indirect signs to try to understand what was happening in internal Soviet politics...."

Change "country" by "BOM", "Pravda" by "Sukhoi.ru" and "First Secretary" by "Project Manager" and There you are...... Back to the Cold War! :)

[Jaws2002]

Someone should change the name for this thread to something like "Who TF won WW2 whine-fest".

[jctrnacty]

True

Are there really any particular news about BoM????

[JG52Krupi]

someone should change the name for this thread to something like "who tf won ww2 whine-fest".

lol

[Mysticpuma]

What is BoM?

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=35489

[fruitbat]

What is BoM?



What is it? It is no more, is what it is......

[klem]

Someone should change the name for this thread to something like "Who TF won WW2 whine-fest".

Well it did get way OT, my fault as much as anyone. Maybe a mod can move those posts to the coffee lounge. Or delete them, it was just an exchange of opinions.

[lonewulf]

Someone should change the name for this thread to something like "Who TF won WW2 whine-fest".

Woooooooo .... hang on a minute. OMG, are you telling me this isn't the bleeding 'Who TF won WW2 whine-fest' thread?? Well, bloody Klem told me it was.

C'mon Klem m8, what's going on?

[Skoshi Tiger]

If anyone thinks they could win a whine fest like this they are deluded. It's just like the Vietnam war.

There are no winners - only whiners!

The good news about BOM is that while we're waiting we've got COD to keep us busy!

[Goanna1]

Reading the sukhoi site through the Bing translator is like reading ancient druid poetry written by a schizophrenic. The speculation/translation in here is as hard to follow.

Anyone got a simple one liner for what it is trying to say?

Fully agree with your analogy
'No News is Good News'- so the saying goes!

[major_setback]

What is it? It is no more, is what it is......

Rumours, rumours, more rumours, and lies.

I know this because I heard that Luthier had told SaXoN (who's wife goes to the same hairdresser as Oleg's sister) that he thought the game would continue at least until it got as far as Moscow. Failing that they would settle for Southend.

[F19_Klunk]

Rumours, rumours, more rumours, and lies.

I know this because I heard that Luthier had told SaXoN (who's wife goes to the same hairdresser as Oleg's sister) that he thought the game would continue at least until it got as far as Moscow. Failing that they would settle for Southend.

...eller som Mäster Skräddare sa: "Det bidde ingenting" ;)

[SlipBall]

Here in the States, barber shops are a good source for hot investment tips;)

[fruitbat]

Yeah well, you can belive all you want, but heres some other news for you, the earth isn't flat, father christmas isn't real, and the government isn't going to drop your taxes.

[No1 Cheese]

"father christmas isnt real"



YOU GIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


;)


Cheese

[Mysticpuma]

What is BoM?

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=35489

?

[Skoshi Tiger]

?

It's the term used by the community to name the Eastern Front based sequel (In lieu of the actual title - which I guess we won't know until it is announced) Someone might of mentioned Battle of Moscow in the dark dim past and it stuck.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=439110&postcount=1

Cheers!

[fruitbat]

"father christmas isnt real"



YOU GIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!


;)


Cheese

I knew i shouldn't of mentioned santa:smile:

[=CfC= Father Ted]

Of course Father Christmas is real - it's just that the FM for his sleigh is a bit off.

[WTE_Galway]

Of course Father Christmas is real - it's just that the FM for his sleigh is a bit off.

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/xLIGHTSx/StarWars/NaughtyorNice/b.jpg

[raaaid]

i thought bom was battle of mediterranean, so no pyramids any soon :(

[JG52Krupi]

Good job keeping on topic guys I am impressed.

[podvoxx]

News from DEDA - http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1934734&viewfull=1#post1934734

Привет. Обещанного три года ждут. А если серьёзно, то все нормально. Информация по новому симулятору готовится. Насколько я могу судить, придерживать ее никто не собирается, а решаются технические моменты. К примеру, сайт делать нужно. Дату никто не называл, а я и не спрашивал. Даю техническую информацию по репликам из Новосибирска. Копаюсь в истории вопроса и ищу интересные факты. Как-то так…

Hey. It's okay. Information on the new simulator is being prepared. As far as I'm concerned, to hold it no one is going, and resolved technical issues. For example, the site should be done. Date, no one called, and I did not ask. Give technical information on replicas from Novosibirsk. Study the history of the question and looking for interesting facts.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Cool!

Thanks for the heads up!

[baronWastelan]

With all this great news, all that's missing is a stirring theme music.

Now here it is!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJtPHlEQ-uU

[JG52Krupi]

Awesome, thanks podvoxx!

[Continu0]

News from DEDA - http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1934734&viewfull=1#post1934734

Can someone clarify a little bit?
They are preparing the information for the announcement? Meaning that it really shouldn´t take so long anymore?

What does this mean?

"As far as I'm concerned, to hold it no one is going, and resolved technical issues."

[Yvetette]

Обещанного три года ждут
But these words say something about waiting for three years!! Unfortunately I can't speak Russian so well that I could say exactly the true meaning.

[Screamadelica]

Thanks for the update podvoxx, sounds intriguing. Good choice of theme music baron! :) The light at the end of the tunnel is......

[Continu0]

Обещанного три года ждут
But these words say something about waiting for three years!! Unfortunately I can't speak Russian so well that I could say exactly the true meaning.

And the next words are "but to be serious" if i translate it from russian to german with google.... He could be joking with this 3 years...

[Fjordmonkey]

As always, I'll go "meh" and wait for the official word, in english, by Luthier & Co, before I even bother THINKING about getting excited.

[podvoxx]

Обещанного три года ждут
But these words say something about waiting for three years!! Unfortunately I can't speak Russian so well that I could say exactly the true meaning.

This is a joke. There is such a thing: "In two weeks'. Next DEDA writes is serious ))

Can someone clarify a little bit?
They are preparing the information for the announcement?
Yes.

[SlipBall]

Yep, that's really all we can do is wait.

[Continu0]

This is a joke. There is such a thing: "In two weeks'. Next DEDA writes is serious ))


Yes.


Thank you! Looking forward!

[Richie]

A couple of weeks from November 14 = now. Give it to me.

[U505]

a couple of weeks from november 14 = now. Give it to me.

+1 :-p

[Mysticpuma]

It was reported that it would be two weeks, three weeks ago.

Currently I find no news that puts a positive or negative spin on progress, only silence and optimism and pessimism however you read the silence.

Whatever it is, silence certainly isn't Golden!

MP

[SlipBall]

The only problem is you guys are basing on a rumor 2 weeks ago, there was no promise made by anyone in the dev team...we just keep speculating, and getting upset when the speculation expires, usually in 2 weeks time:-P

[zapatista]

News from DEDA - ....... Originally Posted by DEDA
Hey. It's okay. Information on the new simulator is being prepared. As far as I'm concerned, to hold it no one is going, and resolved technical issues. For example, the site should be done. Date, no one called, and I did not ask. Give technical information on replicas from Novosibirsk. Study the history of the question and looking for interesting facts.....

thx for the update podvox !!

i believe this could be interpreted as
- "Information on the new simulator is being prepared". = 1C is still working on the "major announcement" (could mean anything, BoM, new MMO, or 2e project), ....but ALL of those are a continuation of the SoW series !
- "As far as I'm concerned, to hold it no one is going, and resolved technical issues".= no major staff changes or layoffs if he is involved (so none have taken place yet, talk of this is rumors about that being a potential issue in the near future ?), they are still working on resolving technical issues of the sim performance and bugs
- "For example, the site should be done" = new website for new flightsim ?
- "Give technical information on replicas from Novosibirsk" = there is an eccentric russian in Novosibirsk who has been building ww2 tank and army vehicle replica's based on original factory specifications and historical documentation he sourced. seems DEDA has contacted him to source some of the technical drawings and original documentation for the SoW flightsim series http://www.odditycentral.com/news/russian-ww2-enthusiast-builds-his-very-own-armored-division.html
- "Study the history of the question and looking for interesting facts"... = study further the time period and ww2 event history of the period the next SoW instalment will cover (? BoM, stalingrad ?), so they can be more accurate in their sim design


all this is good news again, other then the few whiners and trolls here spreading misinformation and getting all the brainless little forum lemmings to collectively jump over the cliff with a herd like behavior stampede, in real life SoW development land all seems well :)

my personal hope is that BoM will still be 1C's next release. it should be very near completion by now and would include further fixes that can be injected into CoD as well (ai behaviour high altitude flight models, weather simulation etc).

[ACE-OF-ACES]

all this is good news again, other then the few whiners and trolls here spreading misinformation and getting all the brainless little forum lemmings to collectively jump over the cliff with a herd like behavior stampede, in real life SoW development land all seems well :)
+1

[xpzorg]

- "Give technical information on replicas from Novosibirsk" = there is an eccentric russian in Novosibirsk who has been building ww2 tank and army vehicle replica's based on original factory specifications and historical documentation he sourced. seems DEDA has contacted him to source some of the technical drawings and original documentation for the SoW flightsim series http://www.odditycentral.com/news/russian-ww2-enthusiast-builds-his-very-own-armored-division.html


Wrong. Deda said about another team from Novosibirsk(Mig-3, Il-2, I-16, I-153, Po-2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aDOz7tvXvk (6 parts with english subs)

[swiss]

i (want to) believe

fyp

[zapatista]

Wrong. Deda said about another team from Novosibirsk(Mig-3, Il-2, I-16, I-153, Po-2)

you mean to say that there is 2 teams in that far flung isolated corner of the russian empire that are making replica's or are rebuilding ww2 vehicles/aircraft ?

www.sras.org/img/photo/russianovosibirskcity.jpg

must be something in the water, or they have long cold winters :)

[podvoxx]

More good news from DEDA :)
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1935516&viewfull=1#post1935516

[Thee_oddball]

(BAD TRANSLATION)

Colleagues, I do not want to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation, and act as a "broken telephone". Be patient and wait for the official announcement. Yes, I know for sure and certain that the plan, but there are limits beyond which I will not pass. I spoke up enough about the upcoming simulator. The name of the theater of the air war on the Eastern Front did not change as a result, except for the historical nuances. For the official announcement may suffer as a principal decision DO BUDGET THEME, Genre, etc. have long been identified. WORK IN PROGRESS ON simulator. And do not, I think to explain the details of the new project - public information. Post Date? Will take a date for some time. Yes, even before the new year. So what? Banging spoons on the table? Someone breaks the patience? As far as I know, it will all happen in due course. When ready. And no one is going to gather a crowd in the square in front of the Christmas tree. Knowing himself a producer, I am sure that all this work will be focused on results and not on the cheap sensation. After the departure of Oleg with this we have serious problems.

[zapatista]

podvox,

thanks for posting it :)

sounds pretty positive !!

[Ataros]

To me it looks like a (maybe former) part of RoF team is working hard on the sequel after Ilya has left the building.

Announcement will come ASAP of cause, not earlier.

[zapatista]

To me it looks like a (maybe former) part of RoF team is working hard on the sequel after Ilya has left the building. .

it is all pure speculation if some old RoF employees are or are now not working for 1C, and with the russian flightsim programmers market being so small it is not an impossibility or particulalry important either (partic since we know several ex 1C BoB employees already ended up at the RoF coalface). and jason from RoF has already formally denied there is any new cooperation agreement between the 2 companies in any formal way, BUT all of that right now is pure speculation, there is NO hard evidence or 1e hand reports about this. neither is there any confirmation luthier might or might not have left

if anybody has some reliable first hand information on this, quote your sources and exact information, if not DONT FILL THIS BOARD WITH WILD NEGATIVE SPECULATION that is not substantiated, it will only spook the feeble minded and will cause another stampede of lemmings jumping over the cliff, to busy smelling each others bottoms to look up and see their stampede is only leading to doom death and destruction !

with CoD having significantly improved recently and many of its major problems having been fixed, we need objectivity and clarity to build on the positives and improve the odds of a good outcome, not wild negative speculation

[Ataros]

To me it is very positive news.

[zapatista]

yes, it is also good news to me :)

didnt mean to have a go at you, i am just frustrated by the cluster of mindless negative people here (not you) who keep picking at anything that possibly might have some negative implication (even if completely fabricated and without a shred of truth) and then blow things wildly out of proportion.

[SlipBall]

It is good news, make's me wonder what is coming...could be epic:-P

[raaaid]

what seems to me is that the comunity of the funny hats will remain with so much offer whatever hapens to bom

[flyingblind]

you mean to say that there is 2 teams in that far flung isolated corner of the russian empire that are making replica's or are rebuilding ww2 vehicles/aircraft ?

www.sras.org/img/photo/russianovosibirskcity.jpg

must be something in the water, or they have long cold winters :)


The feeling I was getting from the mangled translation was that there are actual WW2 aircraft based near Novosibrsk that they are able to use as a comparison between game and real life data and/or there are members of the developement team based there but there are problems coordinating and exchanging data as the unpacked files are so large. But of course I am most likely entirely wrong as almost any meaning can be given to stuff from that forum unless you are a native Russian speaker.

[Mysticpuma]

it is all pure speculation BUT all of that right now is pure speculation, there is NO hard evidence or 1e hand reports about this. neither is there any confirmation luthier might or might not have left

if anybody has some reliable first hand information on this, quote your sources and exact information, if not DONT FILL THIS BOARD WITH WILD NEGATIVE SPECULATION that is not substantiated

I think it would have been better if it had read "DONT FILL THIS BOARD WITH WILD SPECULATION"

Negative or Positive it's all just pointless as without any 'official' news, all of it is speculation.

MP

[SlipBall]

^

Good news is in high demand and welcomed...even if its just hear say:-P

[podvoxx]

Gradually we make DEDA tell us new information :)

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=68949&p=1936502&viewfull=1#post1936502

Коллеги, я уж не знаю, как ещё тоньше намекать? Человек, вставший во главе проекта, знает, что мы хотим эти долгие годы. Он ясно дал понять и это не пустые слова: никаких долгостроев, изобретения новых движков для симулятора или латания старых, никаких дурацких коров и десятков микроскопических карт. Никаких модных сегодня ММО, хотя и не исключены продажи контента… Виртуальным пилотам нужен авиасимулятор и честная война в воздухе, а не ещё одна попытка свалить в кучу все жанры на свете.

Colleagues, I do not know what else to suggest thinner? The man who gets the head of the project, knows that we want all these long years. He made it clear this is not just empty words: no long-term construction, the invention of new engines for the simulator or patching up the old, no stupid cows and tens of micro cards. No fancy today IMO, though not excluded content sales ... virtual pilot needs simulator and honest war in the air and not another attempt to pile all the genres in the world.

[Continu0]

Don´t push it too much, but go on:)

[CARTOON]

Hi all. I am new to this forum but not to the flight sim's ))). Think it will be nice for you to get some first hand news from the russian sukhoi forum where i and Podvoxx ( 'podvokhh') belong.

As for today folks there are positive that some good news are coming up. We got some info that we should expect Eastern front theatre as a sequel to IL2 series and some work is already being done.At the moment we have only good guess who are those guys but waiting for an official anouncement very soon. Will keep you updated on the matter.

[Ibis]

Thank you for that information CARTOON.
Cheers.

[Insuber]

Hi all. I am new to this forum but not to the flight sim's ))). Think it will be nice for you to get some first hand news from the russian sukhoi forum where i and Podvoxx ( 'podvokhh') belong.

As for today folks there are positive that some good news are coming up. We got some info that we should expect Eastern front theatre as a sequel to IL2 series and some work is already being done.At the moment we have only good guess who are those guys but waiting for an official anouncement very soon. Will keep you updated on the matter.

Thank you Cartoon. What's your guess about "those guys", if I may ask?

[WTE_Galway]

Do not understand why they do not just do this sort of thing ...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-a-fantasy-sandbox-mmo

[furbs]

Do not understand why they do not just do this sort of thing ...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-a-fantasy-sandbox-mmo


With their track record most people wouldn't touch it with a barge pole

[csThor]

Not to mention that this is - IMO - first and foremost for small indie studios and not for a "department" of a big publisher.

[CARTOON]

Thank you Cartoon. What's your guess about "those guys", if I may ask?

Well known with a well earned reputation in creating flightsim .I hope today we get some info.

[JG52Uther]

Well known with a well earned reputation in creating flightsim .I hope today we get some info.
And the board went wild! (maybe)

[Viking]

Well known with a well earned reputation in creating flightsim .I hope today we get some info.

Amen to that Cartoon.
And spasiba tavarich.

Viking

[Insuber]

Well known with a well earned reputation in creating flightsim .I hope today we get some info.

Thanks. Albeit I highly doubt that we will have any news from 1C in the next months (or years ...).

[jamesdietz]

I do have one very serious suggestion to the folks at 1C when they are ready ( whenever that is...) to release BoM : They hire Thomas at Desastersoft ( or someone like him,)to design the default campaigns.I think we can all agree that the ones released with the original CloD were both short & sketchy,whereas some of the third party ones we now see are quite well designed ,with interesting action on the ground as well as in the air-better menus too.Having purchased both Wick vs.Dundas & yesterday the Galland Fighter Aces campaign,I can only praise the developer for really thinking through the potential of CloD and using it to the full.IC & Ubisoft have a history of bring new elements to a flight sim ( think Pacific Fighters & 1946 ,) but not really exploiting these new aircraft & maps with anything very interesting in camapigns especially or single missions.To me they look very much like an after thought,but put a guy like Thomas on it & boy you might really have something!)
( An unsolicitated review & unpaid for to boot!}

[Chivas]

I do have one very serious suggestion to the folks at 1C when they are ready ( whenever that is...) to release BoM : They hire Thomas at Desastersoft ( or someone like him,)to design the default campaigns.I think we can all agree that the ones released with the original CloD were both short & sketchy,whereas some of the third party ones we now see are quite well designed ,with interesting action on the ground as well as in the air-better menus too.Having purchased both Wick vs.Dundas & yesterday the Galland Fighter Aces campaign,I can only praise the developer for really thinking through the potential of CloD and using it to the full.IC & Ubisoft have a history of bring new elements to a flight sim ( think Pacific Fighters & 1946 ,) but not really exploiting these new aircraft & maps with anything very interesting in camapigns especially or single missions.To me they look very much like an after thought,but put a guy like Thomas on it & boy you might really have something!)
( An unsolicitated review & unpaid for to boot!}

I agree and the third party campaigns have peaked my interest in flying again. I think the developers have the right priority, concentrating more on providing a decent FMB so the community who may have a more historical background, imagination, and flair to build the missions and campaigns. A mission/campaign builder in the development two or three years ago would have a hard time considering the state of the game engine they had to work with. There are still AI, and FMB problems etc, that need to be addressed in the Sequel so they can be applied to BOB campaigns and missions.

[planespotter]

Hi all. I am new to this forum but not to the flight sim's ))). Think it will be nice for you to get some first hand news from the russian sukhoi forum where i and Podvoxx ( 'podvokhh') belong.

As for today folks there are positive that some good news are coming up. We got some info that we should expect Eastern front theatre as a sequel to IL2 series and some work is already being done.At the moment we have only good guess who are those guys but waiting for an official anouncement very soon. Will keep you updated on the matter.

Sorry I call BS on this. Random guys turns up with vague comments, of no facts, we are supposed to believe it?

[SlipBall]

^
Absolutely would make some question, but there is a cartoon over there who has many posts

[klem]

Sorry I call BS on this. Random guys with English worse than mine turns up, we are supposed to believe it? Proof that you are not just a dumb troll.

Another one line doomsayer. If you don't like his translation go to sukhoi forum and do it yourself. Then when you have some evidence that he's a troll come back and present your case