Very short development update

[Boogz]

yes, we're alive. Me especially. I rarely feel more alive than after a morning reading of the forums!

The sound is progressing well.

lol irl!

:-d

[kalimba]

Yes, we're alive. Me especially. I rarely feel more alive than after a morning reading of the forums!

The sound is progressing well.

General mood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3qbB4Kq3Y0

" The sound is progressing well "... As for the FM , we should be ready for Italy's release. The DM should be good for Madagascar's release soon to be announced. Clouds will be implemented in time for Iceland's pre-Alpha testers in first quarter on 2012. So everything is going well !
:grin:

Salute !

[Kongo-Otto]

And a good devs <-> customer relation is a "nice to have" but in no way mandatory.



Well then this is the one and only kind of Business in which customer relations are not mandatory. :rolleyes:
We will see how long this kind of business behavior will work, because it's not the Customers Problem to keep them in business!
I don't pay money to keep someone in business, i pay money for a Product, the only thing which is keeping companies in business is their Product, from which company this product has been produced, i don't care at all. If there is a WW2 Flight sim from 1c or 3a or XYZ-Tralalla Ltd, i don't care at all.

Otherwise i don't really care if there is any kind of Communication from Luthier, he should do his work and release some patches.
If he does, that's good, if not then not.

[robtek]

Kongo-Otto,

please read what i did write! Customer <->DEVs!
Not as you assumed wrongly Customer <-> Publisher!
As in devs -> developing; publisher -> sales, marketing and PR

[esmiol]

but seriously... when are they give us a real info?

sincerely i like to have an approximate date for the next patch... know what are the real status of their work..

this lack of communication is really not a good thing. and the most optimistic like me begin to really be tired of this leak of info. and worse of all losing hope!

we don't even know when sdk will come... please luthier... give us real info next time! and sincerely this kind of humor with this video could be fun with infos... but give us this thing after weeks of silence...

if you want to give us smile on our face... give us good news and not stupid joke like this!

it is a shame when game was still in developement you were giving us more infos than now! you maybe should drink less and flirting less with chicks during cevellopement and work more like you do now... maybe you could give us more info now and less before! :(

[robtek]

People under pressure usually deliver less than perfect results.

So, Luthier avoids additional artificial pressure resulting from time-lines.

Perfectly understandable, imo.

[esmiol]

well... i really like to be so optimistic than you :)

but they can said if per example... IA will be partially fix for the next patch...(per ex command of wingmans)

and sincerely... they never been really under pression with the timeline during devellopement or other patch!

and they should know that it is better to give an hyppothetical date for a patch release than giving nothing!

that would help community to wait even if they pospone the release of the patch later.

i'm affraid to be without any info (no release date, no info on work about sound, IA, bug, optimisation, etc) the community begin to be tired and let COD as dead!

but i will try to stay optimistic!

[Robert]

but seriously... when are they give us a real info?

sincerely i like to have an approximate date for the next patch... know what are the real status of their work..

this lack of communication is really not a good thing. and the most optimistic like me begin to really be tired of this leak of info. and worse of all losing hope!

we don't even know when sdk will come... please luthier... give us real info next time! and sincerely this kind of humor with this video could be fun with infos... but give us this thing after weeks of silence...

if you want to give us smile on our face... give us good news and not stupid joke like this!

it is a shame when game was still in developement you were giving us more infos than now! you maybe should drink less and flirting less with chicks during cevellopement and work more like you do now... maybe you could give us more info now and less before! :(


Read Luthier's June 3rd post. He outlines what's going on. In the first paragraph he lists what's being worked on in the patch and that was released June 24th. The sound and a few other issues like SDK from the second paragraph will take a few months (2-3?). THAT'S a progress report. One part of that update was completed by the release of the patch. The rest is being worked on and when appropriate advances have been made we'll get pertinent info.

It's not Gibberish folks. It's plain English.

All the other stuff people are waiting for is window dressing compared to these foundational problems. When those are fixed we'll get more progress updates depicting where they are in fixing AI, load outs.... etc. etc. etc.


But don't let a good opportunity to take a swipe at the developers go to waste.

[6S.Tamat]

sorry robert, but if you say that a progress report is the one of the firsts days of june, you are saying that there is not progress until now from that date.
Not difficult reasoning: simple plain logic.

Said that, we can say whatever we wants, that does not modify that there is not a patch and there is not communication.

[Robert]

sorry robert, but if you say that a progress report is the one of the firsts days of june, you are saying that there is not progress until now from that date.
Not difficult reasoning: simple plain logic.

Said that, we can say whatever we wants, that does not modify that there is not a patch and there is not communication.


Probably what there is to communicate regarding the progress of the sound (for example) wouldn't make for an interesting or more importantly an informative update. But he did say in this very post that the sound is coming along.

Say a family member is having surgery. Yes you get progress reports. But the liaison isn't going to inform you of when every stitch is being applied. When the surgical progress reaches certain milestones the liaison will inform family members of what's going on.

What it seems some of you want is this:

We just wheeled Robert into the operating room.
He's undressed.
We sterilized the incision area.
He's put under and is experiencing no issues regarding anesthesia.
We set him up on an intebator.
He's breathing fine
The surgeon has arrived.
They made the first incision.
We cut the sternum.
The splitters have separated the chest to allow access to the heart.
Robert is placed on a machine to pump his heart for him.
The nurse applied the first bag of blood for transfusion.
The ready nurse is preparing heart patches and valves.
Robert's vitals are good.
We're now cutting into the heart.
The old valve is removed.
He's bleeding heavily so we applied another bag of blood.
His pressure is low.
More blood.
It looks like he's coming out of anesthesia.
More anesthesia.
A problem arose causing an unsterilized instrument. We need to back up, clean the area and continue.
The area of the heart requiring a new patch is prepared.
The new valve and patch are prepared.
The attending nurse gives the patch to the surgeon.
The surgeon asks for appropriate sutures an needles.
He sews patch.
More blood.
The nurse gives new valve to surgeon.
Surgeon asks for sutures and needle.
...
...
...
...

We just wheeled him up to the recovery room.
You can see him in about a half hour.





Do you get my point? A liaison would only report on the pertinent aspects of the surgery. The rest would be a waist of time or be of such useless information as to just add to the overall stress of the whole procedure for the family and staff. Out of all the hundreds of things that happen in a surgery a liaison will only report two to three times - barring unforeseen issues.

You'd get:

1)Robert's under anethesia and responding fine.
The surgeon has arrived and we're ready to start in 5 minutes.

2)The valve and patch have been inserted.
He's responding well to the new improvements.
We did have to use more blood than we thought.

3)The finishing nurse is sewing Robert up.
The surgeon will be out in about five minutes to inform you.
You cn see Robert in about half hour.

Why would this be any different for a patch and development communication if the posts would be filled with useless minutia?

No insult intended. I just don't get it when the road map (as small as it is) clearly points to where they are going - whether that road map was given 2 months ago or three days ago. To me that's communication. I don't feel out of the loop. I don't feel neglected. I don't feel it necessary to tell me about things that don't matter to me or I wouldn't understand.

[hc_wolf]

I heard the reason they are taking their time for the next patch is because they want to accurately model volcanic ash.

I see only one down side to this... If the wind is blowing over the English Channel then there will be no flying..... hummm

Still, with the Brilliant graphics of the horizon in this game it should make for some spectacular sunsets... :-P

As a Star wars Fan also. I can't wait till they accurately model the Millennium Falcon and the X-Win... CANYON RUN!!!!

What? Too soon?....... OK IL2 Far Far Away.


For the record I am loving flying on direct connect with my brother in the evenings with Full realism on. Just Awesome fun!

[retrojet]

The mental image of Robert being undressed is totally inappropriate in this forum!
Please apply patch this instance! Or I'll report it under the Vulgarity rule #13... There maybe innocent children present!!

Admittedly, he may have a valid point...

;)

[Robert]

The mental image of Robert being undressed is totally inappropriate in this forum!
Please apply patch this instance! Or I'll report it under the Vulgarity rule #13... There maybe innocent children present!!

Admittedly, he may have a valid point...

;)

Good thing I wasn't describing a vasectomy. ;)

[retrojet]

Now, that is definitely below the belt!
:x

[Robert]

Lol

[Varrattu]

Yes, we're alive. Me especially. I rarely feel more alive than after a morning reading of the forums!

The sound is progressing well.

General mood:

Hi Luthier,

Is that what you promised on 06-03-2011: more regular weekly (friday) updates ???

Please accept my condolences

Varrattu

[Blackdog_kt]

sorry robert, but if you say that a progress report is the one of the firsts days of june, you are saying that there is not progress until now from that date

He's saying there's not a finished product to display. Progress and finished product are different things and when something is finished it didn't just materialize out of thin air.
In our case here, progress is probably a bunch of C++ code, but i doubt it would be useful to most of the people here, hence there's nothing to show.

Imagine this "Hey guys, today we made great progress in the sounds, here's what we did", followed by a few hundred lines of code. How do you think the forum would react to this very real, very "inside info" type of progress report? :-P

[furbs]

What would be quite easy to do, as Luthier has said they have made good progress on the sound would be to show us a small sample of the sound.

so post a clip of banjo music, or post a very small clip of the new sound?

what would go down better?

[Robert]

He's saying there's not a finished product to display. Progress and finished product are different things and when something is finished it didn't just materialize out of thin air.
In our case here, progress is probably a bunch of C++ code, but i doubt it would be useful to most of the people here, hence there's nothing to show.

Imagine this "Hey guys, today we made great progress in the sounds, here's what we did", followed by a few hundred lines of code. How do you think the forum would react to this very real, very "inside info" type of progress report? :-P


On top of that, to explain Tomat's objection, there HAS been progress made on the game. If Luthier made his last update June 3rd indicating AI fixes and a few other corrections and then releases a patch several weeks later, you can't say they haven't done any work/progress on the game. He's fulfilled one half of his June 3rd update on June 24th. The other half has taken longer, which he admitted to 8 weeks ago. Last week he gave a very brief update saying things are going well with the sound engine. The team IS working on it.

[albx]

What would be quite easy to do, as Luthier has said they have made good progress on the sound would be to show us a small sample of the sound.

so post a clip of banjo music, or post a very small clip of the new sound.

what would go down better?

hhmmm... the banjo wasn't a joke... they just changed the background music in the menu with this :grin:

[Robert]

What would be quite easy to do, as Luthier has said they have made good progress on the sound would be to show us a small sample of the sound.

so post a clip of banjo music, or post a very small clip of the new sound.

what would go down better?

I have no answer why. There could be multiple reasons why a sample hasn't been released. I could speculate, but it would just add to the uneasiness. I'll be patient.

[Skoshi Tiger]

What would be quite easy to do, as Luthier has said they have made good progress on the sound would be to show us a small sample of the sound.

so post a clip of banjo music, or post a very small clip of the new sound?

what would go down better?

This is pure speculation on my part, BUT, if the sound is generated by the sound engine rather than simply a recorded sample, any sound that they could let us hear would be a work in progress.

If they let us hear the sound now and then they had to decrease the quality due to performance issues the development team would be virtually crucified by certain elements in the community, who would take any examples of work in progress items as a promise that this is how the finished sounds would be.

Also the quality of any sounds, like a lot of other things being discussed is purely subjective. What sounds good to me would sound atrocious to 90% of the community, (a misspent early life time of loud music, loud cars and quite a bit of shooting on the farm without hearing protection may account for some of it ;) ) just as some of the examples put forward by others in previous threads don't sound good to me.

As far as I'm concerned, until they let us hear the sounds in the proper context none of us would be able to judge anyway.

Hope they get that next patch out to us as soon as it’s ready!
Cheers

[furbs]

But thats what all we had before release "WIP" shots or "placeholders", im sure we would mind hearing a WIP sound of a 109 start up.

Again pure speculation from me, but it seems they said they were 95% finished after 2 weeks makes me believe were not getting "new" sounds, more like the old sounds redone from the start.

Hope im wrong.

anyway, anything would of been better than the banjo music.

[speculum jockey]

When was the last time Luthier mentioned DirectX 11? Or has that been put to the "waaaaaay-back burner"?

[furbs]

yep, its coming just after 64bit :) and thats coming 2 months after the 110 canopy fix:)

[skouras]

i think that the next patch will be much much bigger and with many fixes and many people in this forum will be pleased
the only annoying thing is that no one from the team didn't give us a little info for what they are working and what to expect to see:rolleyes:
-Salute-

[klem]

i think that the next patch will be much much bigger and with many fixes and many people in this forum will be pleased
the only annoying thing is that no one from the team didn't give us a little info for what they are working and what to expect to see:rolleyes:
-Salute-

Now there's faith.

[6S.Manu]

Now there's faith.

IF they have finished the sound engine I'm quite sure that the patch will contain all the sounds needed... probably they want to release a complete update.

Of course... IF!

[robtek]

Oh yeh, of little faith!

[TheEditor]

You guys are still talking about this thread...talk about beating a dead horse! I was lucky enough to get away from cod and forget bout it for a week. Then I was like, "oh yeah, lets check the forums!"

All I can say is thank you EVE Online for helping me forget about this game for a week!

[klem]

You guys are still talking about this thread...talk about beating a dead horse! I was lucky enough to get away from cod and forget bout it for a week. Then I was like, "oh yeah, lets check the forums!"

All I can say is thank you EVE Online for helping me forget about this game for a week!

Well, we're really just chewing the cud... and waiting.

[Ibis]

If the next patch has everything in the game running perfectly the howls of "my 109 is porked", "the flight model isn't right", "the Merlin isn't magic", the Merlin is a UFO", etc, etc, ad-infinitum will still fill a thousand threads be sure. :confused: :cool:

[von Pilsner]

If the next patch has everything in the game running perfectly the howls of "my 109 is porked", "the flight model isn't right", "the Merlin isn't magic", the Merlin is a UFO", etc, etc, ad-infinitum will still fill a thousand threads be sure. :confused: :cool:

Are you complaining about the possibility of other people complaining in the future...?

Seems kind of backwards... ;)

[retrojet]

I promise to whine, about whiners not whining enough about the patch!
:-D

[Ibis]

:grin:

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

paddling fast huh?

[the Dutchman]

We all had our fun,now give us some bloody serious stuff,ASAP!

[catito14]

Still did not appear the "Tomorrow is friday" posts "? :)

[skouras]

Still did not appear the "Tomorrow is friday" posts "? :)

hahahahahahahahah
and i'm wonder what happens:grin:

[albx]

Because we don't trust anymore in luthier and any possible update

[furbs]

Bump :)

[robtek]

I believe its because Luthier said one and a half months ago "The Patch" would need two to three months to be ready.
The people believing him are waiting and the ones without patience are elsewere.

[jojimbo]

actually with the latest patch i can fly over land on medium/low settings which is good for my gt9600 with relatively low lag in places, well chuffed.

the map still needs a bit of optimism, pity its not photorealistic, but well done i can play the game at least.

single player campaign is awful, needs some professional polish

[Ctrl E]

Would love to see an update tonight please luthier. And no more banjos please. While that was funny for a day those of us still a bit annoyed we bought a product that was not as advertised may mutiny.

And whatever do u plan to do with those wonderful models made for project galba? That mustang must see the light of day.

[Targ]

Thanks for the update and funny vid!

Hahahaha!

[klem]

I believe its because Luthier said one and a half months ago "The Patch" would need two to three months to be ready.
The people believing him are waiting and the ones without patience are elsewere.

OK, not a flame post but since you raise the issue, Luthier gave no timescales in his Roadmap:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=262502&postcount=1

On 3rd June he did say 'several months' for the sound bug fix:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=292905#post292905
repeated on 24th June:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=301529&postcount=6

and on 25th July 'sound progressing well' suggesting it may not take as long as first thought unless of course it was purely a jokey reference to the banjo playing rather than the banjo playing being a reference to how good they feel about progress but he did say the banjo playing represented their 'general mood':
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=314241&postcount=1

No mention of 'the patch' but I doubt we will see it before the sound is ready. We are of course two months down the road from the 'several months' statement. I wonder what 'several months' means to Luthier and whether that has been changed by their 'progressing well' and 'general mood'.

IMHO it really would be nice to hear another 'Very short development update' but lets not start that tit-for-tat argument again.

[Chivas]

Its impossible to give exact dates on completely new software production. Everyday you add code its a lottery on what happens next. It certainly won't happen quick enough for many, but I'm sure when the development team has something substantial to report we'll be one of first to know.

[Hood]

I'm not waiting for a patch as I'm sure it will be out eventually. Instead I'm trying to remember if there was ever an apology for what was released as a game.

Hood

[bongodriver]

I'm not waiting for a patch as I'm sure it will be out eventually. Instead I'm trying to remember if there was ever an apology for what was released as a game.

Hood

Not so much an appology but an aknowledgement of it.

[adonys]

The sound system is NOT the most important thing needing to be fixed.

Atm, the offline playing is almost impossible, due to broken Radio Commands system, and the bugs associated with AI behavior.

THAT is the thing most needing a fix.

[skouras]

The sound system is NOT the most important thing needing to be fixed.

Atm, the offline playing is almost impossible, due to broken Radio Commands system, and the bugs associated with AI behavior.

THAT is the thing most needing a fix.

totally agreed with you mate :rolleyes:

[Chivas]

I'm not waiting for a patch as I'm sure it will be out eventually. Instead I'm trying to remember if there was ever an apology for what was released as a game.

Hood

Yes, Luthier did say that everyone has a right to be pissed at the state of the unfinished sim on release, but suggested they would do everything in their power to make it right.

[Hood]

Yes, Luthier did say that everyone has a right to be pissed at the state of the unfinished sim on release, but suggested they would do everything in their power to make it right.

Ok, and for me they still have a lot of goodwill left because of IL2.

Hood

[ATAG_Doc]

When will the battle of Moscow come out?

[SacaSoh]

When will the battle of Moscow come out?

Probably before the next patch...

[AWL_Spinner]

Atm, the offline playing is almost impossible, due to broken Radio Commands system, and the bugs associated with AI behaviour.


Had my first flight the other day (having recently received the DVD) and was, I suppose, amused to see some of those treasured IL2 AI "features" still present:

Flew the channel dogfight, ran out of ammo, hadn't yet mapped/figured out radio commands so just broke off and headed home to land. Took half the flight with me, and watched as (on approach) they all assumed an increasingly improbably AOA before, like lemmings, flying into the ground en mass when I landed.

Sigh.

Haven't been able to repeat the experiment because CLoD will only start (once) if I reinstall my video drivers each time. Which is something of an unreasonable demand to make of a player.

[klem]

The sound system is NOT the most important thing needing to be fixed.

Atm, the offline playing is almost impossible, due to broken Radio Commands system, and the bugs associated with AI behavior.

THAT is the thing most needing a fix.

I feel for you even some of us are not interested in off-line play but at least we can turn Forest off and bypass the sound bug.

ALL the things that prevent actual play need fixing, like the poor so and so's that are stuck with a dual GPU card, the XP/Dx9.0 players that can't even run it, etc. Anything that prevents play is important, including stuff that doesn't directly affect me if it stops guys coming on-line - which does affect me. MP has improved with a few get-arounds and the US release but its still seems to be only available to a limited number.

Back on our heads.......

[Zorin]

Ok, and for me they still have a lot of goodwill left because of IL2.

Hood

Good for you, but I have to admit that for me they lost about 90% of it already. Please keep in mind they have "developed" this game for 5+ years! Both of the last expansion packs were mostly developed by third party companies and the only thing they needed to do was the implementation of new planes and maps, which we know now since the "MOD" incident, is not as complicated to do as they wanted us to believe.

The very fact that someone from the community (me) had to tell them that their Bf110 that they happily showcased in dev updates had a number of OBVIOUS flaws should have made me very suspicious. How can a company that has spent the last decade on the subject matter of WWII aviation get something like that wrong? It is beyond me. That 3D guy must have looked at hundreds of photographs of Bf110Cs and, as we were let to believe!, original blueprints. I'd have fired him on the spot!

[Blackdog_kt]

Thread cleanup performed, the entire slagging match has been moved to the arguments and speculations thread here: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=25051

Tree is on his 2nd warning for this:

Well stop posting crap.......

...and Chivas on his 1st for responding in kind.

Maybe we should start running a betting service and let people gamble on who will be the first person to get a few days of forum "vacation", but some people are so bent on achieving it that the odds are so heavily stacked nobody would put money down on such a bet :rolleyes:

Also, thread locked due to popular demand and to prevent it from deteriorating to the same old arguments.

Take a look at the way some of you treat other members of the community simply for having a different opinion and cherish the knowledge that because of your behaviour, the next development update threads will probably be locked as soon as any meaningful discussion has died down (a couple of days usually), preventing other members of the community from possibly continuing it at a later date.

This is a clear case of certain people pissing in everyone's bowl of cereal through their lack of manners:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=6973&d=1314468788

If it persists we'd rather stop a couple of people from posting than have them stopping the entire community from doing so, as being the lesser of two evils. The options exist, the choice is theirs to make.