ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[Mingan]

S!

Sorry for offtopic, but what does S mean? I've seen it said many times when playing in the ATAG server, and I have no idea what it means.

EDIT: I've had many crashes when trying to bomb radar stations... I guess I'll skip playing until those problems are solved.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Sorry for offtopic, but what does S mean? I've seen it said many times when playing in the ATAG server, and I have no idea what it means.

EDIT: I've had many crashes when trying to bomb radar stations... I guess I'll skip playing until those problems are solved.

S! is for salute

Do you restart the sim after every sortie? helps alot:grin::)

[5./JG27.Farber]

Sorry for offtopic, but what does S mean? I've seen it said many times when playing in the ATAG server, and I have no idea what it means.

Its a way of expressing respect for another pilot, friend or foe. Its a virtual representation of the fighter pilot brotherhood "club". So if you had a good fight, won or lost, you just give a little S!

[Untamo]

Their server is in Chigago USA.

Well that explains the ping :)

ALthough are you sure thats just not the server restarting?

No. Well at least there was no mission ending messages. This has happened more than once, and then there has been other squad mates on the server at the same time that did not have the timeout, at least not at the same time as me :)

[JG52Uther]

Did my first 'proper' bomb run in a JU88 last night on the server. Took off from Tramcourt and went 'the long way round' (Top Secret LW speak ;) )and ended up over the target at G10 some time later. Set up for a dive bomb attack, bombs set to 'series' and down I went!
Was pretty wicked seeing the bombs straddle the target as I pulled out from the long dive, then set course for the long trip home again, landing some time later with not a lot of fuel left. Great fun.
I really want a yoke now.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Did my first 'proper' bomb run in a JU88 last night on the server. Took off from Tramcourt and went 'the long way round' (Top Secret LW speak ;) )and ended up over the target at G10 some time later. Set up for a dive bomb attack, bombs set to 'series' and down I went!
Was pretty wicked seeing the bombs straddle the target as I pulled out from the long dive, then set course for the long trip home again, landing some time later with not a lot of fuel left. Great fun.
I really want a yoke now.


ATAG_Doc just got one(ch yoke) and I have used my Eclypse Yoke sence CoD release, I cant imagine flying my 88 without it! To complete the imersion, I included a throttle quad(also ch products) and a CH MFP and pedals, that adds 9 levers, engine start buttons, and trim wheels, so thats 75 labled and color coded levers/buttons, No more keyboard combos haha:-P

I still forget to arm my bombs somtimes lol:oops:

[JG52Uther]

I have a Ch fighterstick and pedals, and a Saitek throttle quad, so I'm sort of torn between the CH yoke and the Saitek one, as the saitek comes with another throttle quad.

[JG52Krupi]

Looks like the ch one has throttles on top of it rather than on a separate unit..

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

I have a Ch fighterstick and pedals, and a Saitek throttle quad, so I'm sort of torn between the CH yoke and the Saitek one, as the saitek comes with another throttle quad.

Im sure this is a personal preference but the Saitek has a center detent(deal killer for me....click-click-click:evil:)

And Krupi is correct, the ch eclypse has 3 more levers on top (space saver!)

CH Products are made in the USA and originaly retailed for much more:cool:

[SEE]

I seem to have lost server 1 (and a few others) - doesn't appear in my server list since the last windows 7 update. :confused:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hi Evangeluse,

I just came off Server 1, meaning it's up and running with no Steam problems. Have you tried briefly starting a server of your own, playing it for a few seconds, then logging off? This worked for me once when none of the servers were appearing in my Client list; I guess it reset my PC network settings.

Otherwise come onto the ATAG forum and we'll try to get it sorted out.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Hi Evangelous,

did u try the direct conect yet?

[SEE]

I tried Direct connect and it took me into server 2. I tried creating a server too but only for a few seconds. I checked on ATAG and can see the server list so I know it's running - there seems to be quite afew missing from the normal list but server 2 shows up and I can log into it. I will try again.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

can you find server1 i.p. ?

Ill have a look too

here it is i think

216.52.148.29 :27016

[ATAG_Bliss]

2nd server now has a 3 map rotation up. If all goes well for this setup, everything will be transferred over the 1st server.

Please help me test this out. (Stop playing on the 1st server! - one of the missions is the one on server 1)

Please :)

And thanks..

[bravoalpha]

2nd server now has a 3 map rotation up. If all goes well for this setup, everything will be transferred over the 1st server.

Please help me test this out. (Stop playing on the 1st server! - one of the missions is the one on server 1)

Please :)

And thanks..

Thanks Bliss! ...but maybe only a few player read this who play on server 1. Make a highlight screentext on server one, or a repeated line at the chat window, but the best will be the change of the servers. Maybe it would be better to run the old on server on 2, the new on server one. ;)
I think players choise will be the server 1 or the more players, no matter what mission is there.

Is the three map rotation depend on which side wins?

[klem]

2nd server now has a 3 map rotation up. If all goes well for this setup, everything will be transferred over the 1st server.

Please help me test this out. (Stop playing on the 1st server! - one of the missions is the one on server 1)

Please :)

And thanks..

Hi Bliss

Four or Five of our guys looked in on the new server around 7:30-8pm UK time last night but it was empty :(

We went to server #1 instead. Perjaps you should announce that #1 will be off line say Monday to Wednesday this week and see how the new one goes. You'll soon find out if there are problems and could swap #1 back in.

[5./JG27.Farber]

If you do that can you post up a new steam link in TS3 to get on that server. Its one of the major reasons I dont use that server.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Thats great news, new toys to bomb:cool:

[Jatta Raso]

2nd server now has a 3 map rotation up. If all goes well for this setup, everything will be transferred over the 1st server.

Please help me test this out. (Stop playing on the 1st server! - one of the missions is the one on server 1)

Please :)

And thanks..

the server list doesn't show (again...) in CLoD client menu, so i'm using direct connect, can you give the IP to ATAG 2nd server?

:arrow: thanks

[ATAG_Bliss]

Jatta,

Easiest thing to do is to put these in a .bat file and use them to join the servers.

steam://connect/216.52.148.29:27016 ////Server #1

steam://connect/216.52.143.205:27016 ////Server #2

Open notepad. Copy the details for server 1 or server 2 on the screen and do a "save as" with "all file types" with the file name ending with .bat - example - ATAG1.bat

Then you can place that anywhere on your desktop and use that instead of the launcher.exe from steam. Using the .bat file skips all menu screens and loads you directly into the server. It also automatically shuts down the game when you disconnect from the server. This makes it easy to simply restart the game after every sortie. (to stop with the CTD's)

@Farber - I'll put the link in all the Server #2 channels, but the direct connect link for both servers is also available on the header section in the forums as well.

@bravoalpha/klem - the mission is up on the 1st server now. Server 2 has the old one and some testing missions I'm doing as well. But it looks like some of the limit scripts aren't working all the time (of course they work fine when I'm the only one in there testing :( ), so I'm in the middle of fixing that now. So please don't be alarmed if you see some SpitIIa's or E4's. There's supposed to be 3 and 8 respectfully in this mission.

@Borris - yes, the bomber boys are going to be busy. On Blue you must sink 17 moving ships with AAA and a massive objective that's going to take many a bomb strike to take out. Red has the same sort of challenge.

[Jatta Raso]

Jatta,

Easiest thing to do is to put these in a .bat file and use them to join the servers.

steam://connect/216.52.148.29:27016 ////Server #1

steam://connect/216.52.143.205:27016 ////Server #2

Open notepad. Copy the details for server 1 or server 2 on the screen and do a "save as" with "all file types" with the file name ending with .bat - example - ATAG1.bat

Then you can place that anywhere on your desktop and use that instead of the launcher.exe from steam. Using the .bat file skips all menu screens and loads you directly into the server. It also automatically shuts down the game when you disconnect from the server. This makes it easy to simply restart the game after every sortie. (to stop with the CTD's)

lol i came from DOS so i know what 'bat' means, thanks for the tip, it does make it easier to launch directly to a server ;) i'll try it and report anything worth mentioning in here

[aus3620]

Hi Bliss,

I created a bat file for server #1, and is on my desktop as directed.
When I double-click it the DOS screen flashes by. I presume there is another step, like editing the Steam file???? ... or something!

thx

Post-edit
Thanks Bliss, missed the "start" section - ie Start "" "steam://connect/216.52.148.29:27016"

[ATAG_Bliss]

Hi Magpie,

Just use this thread: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?867-Launcher-Shortcut-for-IL2COD

It could be that you have the ///server #1 in your .bat file.

[SEE]

I have seen many threads regards the horizon appearing through the cockpit but never seen this and thought it was an ATI issue. With the new server 1 dawn start mission, I can see the runway lights through my cockpit instrument panel - anyone else noticed this?

[ATAG_Bliss]

Yep, been there since day one sadly :(

[salmo]

Bliss,
Any chance we can get:
1. variable time of day when mission new battle launches? Maybe have several main missions with different time of day & randomly lauch one of them?
2. Variable targets? The pilots have quickly learned where targets & AI flights are located. Maybe 10 targets each side, & get the script to select 3 each side for any given battle?

[ramstein]

re: ATAG server, latest mission settings, The sun, the weather, the environoment, time of day, bright colors, sky, sun, darkness...the sun and sunraise setting is implossble to enjoy, the time it take for the sun to fully rise..
no light to see where to taxi, takeoff, land, and much, much more..

I just cannot see anything,, maybe some younger people with the best eyesight can see, but I cannot... am I the only one that does not enjoy the bright early rising sun?

Just sayin'


I beg ATAG to move the time, change the sun brightness, make it more user freindly and not an eye test...

Thank you again,
Ram..

[klem]

re: ATAG server, latest mission settings, The sun, the weather, the environoment, time of day, bright colors, sky, sun, darkness...the sun and sunraise setting is implossble to enjoy, the time it take for the sun to fully rise..
no light to see where to taxi, takeoff, land, and much, much more..

I just cannot see anything,, maybe some younger people with the best eyesight can see, but I cannot... am I the only one that does not enjoy the bright early rising sun?

Just sayin'


I beg ATAG to move the time, change the sun brightness, make it more user freindly and not an eye test...

Thank you again,
Ram..

Sorry ramstein but I can't agree. I think that early morning sunrise time is brilliant. There is runwway lighting for takeoff and cockpit lighting for instruments. I do have to turn off the small lamp on my desk to help with the 'night vision' just as I did in IL-2 '46.

It makes you understand why the fighter pilots hated night flying though :)

It isn't long before the light begins to improve and the sun peeps over the horizon (beautiful, the devs have made such a good job of that).

Anyway I was coming here to congratulate ATAG on this so 'wtg' guys.

btw I'm not young either :)

[SEE]

I am 50/50 with the new mission time period. Its, ok for a short stint but I find it very tiring - its hard enough to see in good daylight. It is dark for too long for me to enjoy, the level of concentration wears me out pretty rapidly.

Yes, the RAF flew night missions and the majority of pilots considered them a waste of time - the results were very poor. They adopted a 500ft layering tactic to help improve the effectiveness of these sorties but it made little signicant improvement.

The best measure of what people would prefer is to run the Dawn mission on server 1 and the daylight mission on server 2 and then see which is the most popular mission.

[TomcatViP]

I hve to disagree with you SEE.

Many missions were launched before dawn in order for the flight to be on station over the target area at first lights.

It's was a dayly ration for pilots to hve to take off in the dark taxying only by the shear lights of their flight leader blue flammed exhausts.

Even If I hven't the opportunity to fly the mission entirely, Bliss did a great job with that mission. In fact having to fly such a mission once every day we fly migh greatly increade realism and immersion.

ALtough it still lack the Café noisette and Croissants when you take off on the blue side ;)

[SEE]

Bliss and the ATAG guys certainly have done a great job with the servers and missions. As I said, it's 50/50 with me regards the dawn missions - I just find the level of concentration required tires me out very quickly but the lighting ambience and atmosphere is fantastic none the less.

[ATAG_Doc]

You are hereby ordered to have your flight airborne and formed up over your airfield at 0400 hours. Flight leads take off first. Once your fight is airborne you are to lead your group out heading 330 to an altitude of 2000 meters. Once your flight has reached the shore you are to report into flight HQ. Keep R/T to a minimum. Look out for bombers and their escorts.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Bliss,
Any chance we can get:
1. variable time of day when mission new battle launches? Maybe have several main missions with different time of day & randomly lauch one of them?
2. Variable targets? The pilots have quickly learned where targets & AI flights are located. Maybe 10 targets each side, & get the script to select 3 each side for any given battle?

#1 is a good idea, but if all goes well with our new commander on the 2nd server, the 1st one will/can rotate any amount of missions we want. Colander has been working on this, giving us the same functionality as before (keeping the server up 24/7, keeping it up through steam errors, and restarting the server so players can join / not fail auth) but adding the ability to rotate missions on top of it, amongst a plethora of other things that will help with the mission building side/server side stuff. So, essentially this problem should be cured soon.

#2 also goes right along with what I said about #1. Once everything works as intended, there will be no reason to change it up, considering the mission will never be the same one again until it comes back into rotation. I don't think we are too far off here from incorporating it.

re: ATAG server, latest mission settings, The sun, the weather, the environoment, time of day, bright colors, sky, sun, darkness...the sun and sunraise setting is implossble to enjoy, the time it take for the sun to fully rise..
no light to see where to taxi, takeoff, land, and much, much more..

I just cannot see anything,, maybe some younger people with the best eyesight can see, but I cannot... am I the only one that does not enjoy the bright early rising sun?

Just sayin'


I beg ATAG to move the time, change the sun brightness, make it more user freindly and not an eye test...

Thank you again,
Ram..

Sorry ramstein but I can't agree. I think that early morning sunrise time is brilliant. There is runwway lighting for takeoff and cockpit lighting for instruments. I do have to turn off the small lamp on my desk to help with the 'night vision' just as I did in IL-2 '46.

It makes you understand why the fighter pilots hated night flying though :)

It isn't long before the light begins to improve and the sun peeps over the horizon (beautiful, the devs have made such a good job of that).

Anyway I was coming here to congratulate ATAG on this so 'wtg' guys.

btw I'm not young either :)

I am 50/50 with the new mission time period. Its, ok for a short stint but I find it very tiring - its hard enough to see in good daylight. It is dark for too long for me to enjoy, the level of concentration wears me out pretty rapidly.

Yes, the RAF flew night missions and the majority of pilots considered them a waste of time - the results were very poor. They adopted a 500ft layering tactic to help improve the effectiveness of these sorties but it made little signicant improvement.

The best measure of what people would prefer is to run the Dawn mission on server 1 and the daylight mission on server 2 and then see which is the most popular mission.

So we've got 1 for it, one against it, and 1 in the middle about the dawn start :D Haha - well, all I can say is what I said above, soon enough we'll have an actual server rotation. And hopefully, soon enough we'll have a patch that fixes the CTD's so I can finally add some of the other missions into the fray that aren't suitable for the state of the game yet.

@all get your butts on TS3 tonight. We are going to have a gaggle of a good time. ;)

Tell me if this isn't fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CTO4S7t80KQ

[ATAG_knuckles]

Most will hate me but I would like the dark to stay for at least an hour.

Night bombing yeah:

I would like to see if the exhaust stacks or cockpit lighting can be seen in the dark ?


Knuckles

[JG52Krupi]

Most will hate me but I would like the dark to stay for at least an hour.

Night bombing yeah:

I would like to see if the exhaust stacks or cockpit lighting can be seen in the dark ?


Knuckles

I am with you night flying is fun... I got right up close to a contact and just as I was about to fire I realised it was a 109, fantastic stuff.

Love it the atmosphere is awesome thanks chaps

[BaronBonBaron]

Yesterday, I played Clod online for the first time, on ATAG.
It was also my first time using CEM, lol it took awhile just to figure out how to start my JU-87. :-P

But I really enjoyed it, this server is very good, and the people nice!

[jimbop]

Glad you could join us, Baron. It was a good night. I counted ten planes on a single dogfight before the inevitable stutter... stutter... CTD!

[III/JG53_Don]

Guess I have some problems with my He111 on Online servers. A couple of minutes ago I started a Bombrun at the ATAG Server. Bomb Bay open, Bombs armed, fuze for horizontal bombing.
Im pretty sure I set the Lotfe right, thought of the different heights due to the target not on sea level. Bomb Automatic set and I didnt even had to correct the sight. After I overrun the target the Automatic went off.
All bombs should released all at once with a small distance of 40m each.
But still I cant see any explosions from up high (was on 3500m) :confused:

That happened to me also with a Blenheim attack at the Ju-88s near Calais. I chose the first fuze, armed the bombs, opened bay doors and released the bombs low level. But nothing happened.

[w1nd6urfa]

lol i came from DOS so i know what 'bat' means

Ah, the glorious days of AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS !

I wonder where those files are hidden in win 7 :grin: :grin:

[CaptainDoggles]

Ah, the glorious days of AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS !

I wonder where those files are hidden in win 7 :grin: :grin:
All the configuration settings from config.sys are now in the registry.

autoexec.bat can still sometimes be found in the root of your c:\ drive if you have "hide protected operating files" unchecked but windows doesn't actually use the file any more.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Hi all,

It's only been, umm, about 3 months since our dedicated machine for server #1 has been restarted. It has been running IL2COD 24/7 in that time. Every time I think I'll get a chance to do a little maintenance on the beast, there's always someone playing or in TS3.

With that said, we DO need to perform some computer maintenance in a bad way. Today has got to be that day. With that said, in an hour 4PM EST the machine will be rebooted and updated. TS3 will be down for 5 minutes tops. The game server will be down for just a tad longer as we install a new program for IL2COD and update windows.

Just FYI.. When it goes down it won't be down long. And server #2 will be up and be able to fly on.

Thanks

[ATAG_Bliss]

All done.

[ATAG_Colander]

All,

The stats have been reset to zero as well.

ATAG_Colander.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Server 1 has clouds and its killing everyones FPS. :(

[ATAG_Bliss]

Lay off the Whiskey m8. It's the same amount of clouds that have always been there ;)

[5./JG27.Farber]

Are you sure? Maybe they had just spawned all on the south coast of England rather than spread out.

I dont drink whisky :cool:

[Oldschool61]

Just got CLod and went on the ATAG server and most planes say unavailable to select. Whats up with that?? Are there any instructions on how to get into a game??

[ATAG_Snapper]

Just got CLod and went on the ATAG server and most planes say unavailable to select. Whats up with that?? Are there any instructions on how to get into a game??

Hi Oldschool,

Sorry for your trouble. I just logged in and selected an aircraft (Spit I at Manston) just to test -- no problem there. However, I noticed that of the 11 players currently on the ATAG server, the longest had been on only 15 minutes.

This coincides with the timing of your attempt to log in. I suspect that by unhappy coincidence you had logged in just as the server was resetting (which happens approx every 4 - 5 hours, less if one side achieves all of its target objectives laid out in the map briefing). Please give it another try and let us know, when you can, if you succeeded.

[ATAG_Colander]

Just got CLod and went on the ATAG server and most planes say unavailable to select. Whats up with that?? Are there any instructions on how to get into a game??


OldSchool,

The list of planes is there for you to jump into an existing plane. This only works if you are near that plane.
What you probably need is:
1.- Click on the flags above to select your army
2.- Once on an army, select a base to spawn from on the map at the left.
3.- You will then be presented with a default plane for that base. Click on the plane name, just above the plane image and select the one you prefer. (Note you will only see the planes available for that particular base).
4.- Click fly.

Hope this helps and we see you in the ATAG skyes!

ATAG_Colander.

[Oldschool61]

OldSchool,

The list of planes is there for you to jump into an existing plane. This only works if you are near that plane.
What you probably need is:
1.- Click on the flags above to select your army
2.- Once on an army, select a base to spawn from on the map at the left.
3.- You will then be presented with a default plane for that base. Click on the plane name, just above the plane image and select the one you prefer. (Note you will only see the planes available for that particular base).
4.- Click fly.

Hope this helps and we see you in the ATAG skyes!

ATAG_Colander.

Thanks for advice, that might be were most of the problems are. At work now wont be home for about 10 hours. Do the planes use realistic start up or can I just press the start engine key like in good ol IL2 ??

[5./JG27 Lehmann]

The list of planes is there for you to jump into an existing plane. This only works if you are near that plane.


Aah that's interesting!

I was on the other night with a pal and we decided we were going to try and crew a 110 together. My friend was unable to get into my 110 as it was showing the 'WPF Unavailable' message. Do all players who want to fly in the same aircraft have to first spawn at the same airfield?

[Oldschool61]

Aah that's interesting!

I was on the other night with a pal and we decided we were going to try and crew a 110 together. My friend was unable to get into my 110 as it was showing the 'WPF Unavailable' message. Do all players who want to fly in the same aircraft have to first spawn at the same airfield?

Thats the same message I saw on list to the right. It should say "WTF"

[bw_wolverine]

Aah that's interesting!

I was on the other night with a pal and we decided we were going to try and crew a 110 together. My friend was unable to get into my 110 as it was showing the 'WPF Unavailable' message. Do all players who want to fly in the same aircraft have to first spawn at the same airfield?

Correct. If you want to fly in his 110, spawn in another one at the same airfield, hit ESC, then double-click on the vacant gunner seat (which should just be blank instead of saying WPF Unavailable).

That should do it.

[Osprey]

Thanks for advice, that might be were most of the problems are. At work now wont be home for about 10 hours. Do the planes use realistic start up or can I just press the start engine key like in good ol IL2 ??

There is a procedure but it's not realistic. Best see youtube to instruction, that's the easiest way.

[5./JG27 Lehmann]

Correct. If you want to fly in his 110, spawn in another one at the same airfield, hit ESC, then double-click on the vacant gunner seat (which should just be blank instead of saying WPF Unavailable).

That should do it.

Fantastic, many thanks!

[jimbop]

For those on teamspeak (and you all should be!) who want to see who is talking and on channel in-game you can use either TSNotifier or the TS3 native Overlay plugin. TSNotifier seems to cause problems when running Fraps so here are the steps to get the Overlay plugin working in the current version of TS3:

1. Install TS3 v3.0.5 client.

2. Proceeded through the setup wizard and ticked Enable Overlay, agreed to the warning about anti-cheat.

3. Close TS3 and open the config_user.ini in %appdata%\ts3overlay. Add the following:

[LAUNCHER.EXE]
dll.force_loading=true

4. Start TS3, log onto 216.52.148.29:9987 and start CoD.

The C:\Users\Upstairs\AppData\Roaming\ts3overlay\confi g_user.ini entry looks like this after a successful test:

[LAUNCHER.EXE]
dll.force_loading=true
statistics.tried_in_version=3.3.5
statistics.doesnt_crash_in_version=3.3.5

Also discussed on the ATAG forum here (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?674-Teamspeak-3-Overlay-for-IL2-Cliffs-of-Dover&p=9114#post9114).

[JG52Uther]

Hmmm is that an older version of TS? I have the latest version.

[jimbop]

Hmmm is that an older version of TS? I have the latest version.

3.0.5 is current.

[pupaxx]

Hi all,
yesterday night (GMT +1) after weeks of inactivity I got two hours to dedicate to CloD. I connected to ATAG server as red player, as usual at take off you spawn in the middle of mess with 35 player fighting around, so I cautiously headed nortbound to gain altitude, then I turned eastbound trough the channel. At 8000ft I was almost feet dry over France heading towards 5-6 wellingtons on their bombrun mission. Closing in their 7oclock I spotted a lone 109 climbing in their direction, I decided to go after him but when I gained his six oclock an heavy stutter almost freezed the pc. CTD was avoided but the contacts (109 and wellis) appeared frozen at midair, 20 seconds later connection with server was lost. At the following connection the players were only 5 and the mission started by night. It was a simply mission reloading or what? Does the mission voluntarly was launched by night or was it a server time mis-synchronization.
THX

[SiThSpAwN]

Hi all,
yesterday night (GMT +1) after weeks of inactivity I got two hours to dedicate to CloD. I connected to ATAG server as red player, as usual at take off you spawn in the middle of mess with 35 player fighting around, so I cautiously headed nortbound to gain altitude, then I turned eastbound trough the channel. At 8000ft I was almost feet dry over France heading towards 5-6 wellingtons on their bombrun mission. Closing in their 7oclock I spotted a lone 109 climbing in their direction, I decided to go after him but when I gained his six oclock an heavy stutter almost freezed the pc. CTD was avoided but the contacts (109 and wellis) appeared frozen at midair, 20 seconds later connection with server was lost. At the following connection the players were only 5 and the mission started by night. It was a simply mission reloading or what? Does the mission voluntarly was launched by night or was it a server time mis-synchronization.
THX

The server does restart when all objectives are completed by one side, usually there is on screen notifications of the server restart though... perhaps you join right at the end?

[ATAG_Snapper]

The server does restart when all objectives are completed by one side, usually there is on screen notifications of the server restart though... perhaps you join right at the end?

Sithspawn, you nailed it.

@pupaxx As unlikely as it sounds, you were unfortunate to have spawned in at the end of the server cycle (although I seem to have a knack for doing that myself). There are several warnings flashed up on the screen, but then anyone who hasn't already exited gets dumped from the Server. The pronounced stutters and freeze ups are the telltale sign that the server is resetting.

I believe one of the cycles begins at 4:30 a.m. for bombers (and fighters) taking off in the pre-dawn darkness. Watch out for the airstrip flares; they are solid objects which can upend you unceremoniously (unlike the yellow placards that you can taxi through without damage).

The ATAG Server is objective-based. Click on the Briefing tab to see what your selected country's (Red or Blue) objectives are. The first country to achieve those objectives "wins the map", the server resets, and eternal glory is yours. Worth bragging to your grandkids someday and even mentioning in your job resumes.

Make sure you're on Teamspeak and hook up with those on the Bomber channel to see if anyone "needs escort". Odds are your offer will be gratefully accepted and they'll give you detailed instructions on where best to spawn and how to hook up with them. (That would be a BAD time to exit and respawn in the opposing country! LOL )

Good luck!

[pupaxx]

All clear finally, thanks Snapper. What a pity for that 109, I was closing to him...
Even if the time to dedicate to Clod is always less than I would, it is pleasant to join ATAG server!
See u
thx

[SiThSpAwN]

Sithspawn, you nailed it.

First time I nailed anything on the ATAG server, yeah me :P

[ATAG_Snapper]

First time I nailed anything on the ATAG server, yeah me :P

Ha! I know what you mean.....kills don't come easy for me over there. :-|

[Jatta Raso]

hi, quick question, just curious:

reseted the stats again, in middle of the month? i thought you did it by the end of every 1 or couple months, or it has to do with the time you choose to do server maintenance?

again no problem, congrats on the server, i'm just curious at how it works. ;)

[ATAG_Bliss]

As explained on our forums, we had to do this as one of the databases became corrupt after all the updates. I could go through a whole bunch of databases and find the corrupt file, but I really don't have 5 hours to spare to do that atm.

The updates were supposed to take around 30 minutes and that alone ended up taking around 6 hours of my time. So I took the easy route. As Luthier would say, these stats are just a "placeholder" for what we have in the works anyhow :)

[bw_wolverine]

I know the blown up stuff is nice to look at, but is there any way to script removing the objects entirely?

I just spent the last 30 minutes trying to keep a target defended that was supposedly already destroyed. The models showed as pristine condition to me, but were apparently blown up already.

Dunno. This might help.

I won't fly with the server messages on. I think it's cheating since it shows info you can't know. So I don't get any messages about destroyed bits and pieces. Just the big ol' BLUE HAS DESTROYED OBJECTIVE X message in orange/red that shows up.

Anyway, I understand if there's nothing that can be done or will be done. It just sucks a lot to be telling people to defend something and then have Blue win the match at a different location.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I know the blown up stuff is nice to look at, but is there any way to script removing the objects entirely?

I just spent the last 30 minutes trying to keep a target defended that was supposedly already destroyed. The models showed as pristine condition to me, but were apparently blown up already.

Dunno. This might help.

I won't fly with the server messages on. I think it's cheating since it shows info you can't know. So I don't get any messages about destroyed bits and pieces. Just the big ol' BLUE HAS DESTROYED OBJECTIVE X message in orange/red that shows up.

Anyway, I understand if there's nothing that can be done or will be done. It just sucks a lot to be telling people to defend something and then have Blue win the match at a different location.

Well, every 15 minutes the server tells you what objectives have been completed and the time remaining in the mission. I understand not wanting to see the server messages to a degree, but you'd have to assume in real life if something on, say, the English coast got attacked/destroyed, you'd have a pretty good chance of knowing about it fairly quickly. That's why those server messages scroll through telling you that in 15 minute intervals.

And if you hop into the mission during the middle of it, you'd have no idea what to protect/attack without them.

[adonys]

You should add radio comms for getting info about the current submission's objectives.

[SiThSpAwN]

Well, every 15 minutes the server tells you what objectives have been completed and the time remaining in the mission. I understand not wanting to see the server messages to a degree, but you'd have to assume in real life if something on, say, the English coast got attacked/destroyed, you'd have a pretty good chance of knowing about it fairly quickly. That's why those server messages scroll through telling you that in 15 minute intervals.

And if you hop into the mission during the middle of it, you'd have no idea what to protect/attack without them.

Yeah, I would have to agree, maybe not as fast as today, but I am sure back then they would be able to tell you if an objective was hit, maybe not to the accuracy we get with the messages but you would know something....

[bw_wolverine]

Is there no way to script those messages to go to the chat window or 'voice' text instead?

Again I understand if no change is made. I'm mostly just asking for my own info. The server messages stuff kills the immersion for me with all the player kill/join/leave stuff.

[pupaxx]

Hi to all ATAG masters,
the miracle happened! For the third evening consecutively I grabbed some hours to my family and enjoyed some battles on your server. Great community!
My ask is: would be possible implement your mission with some bomber formations tasked for bombing the City and industrial districts simulating some sept 1940 raids? I ask for this for a specific purpose that is to lighten the combat pressure over the coastal airports in south england. It is a bit predictable the axis on which the combats will occur. If u would plan some bomber ingressing the south england from routes along splintered paths and deep in the territory, more people would be temped to adopt a more reasoned defensive tactic and would not set up a giant meleè over the southern airports.
Thanks

[klem]

Played a new map on ATAG last night. Really good.

Lets separate the arguments.

1. As many Spitfire IIa's as you want. That's nice for a change and is welcome on the occasional map. LW whiners queue over there >>> :) But perhaps there should have been (more/some?) 109E-4s for balance?

2. A good feel to the missions, I like the information given (even if it is in 'banner' form). Enough AI bombers including a low level raid which was intercepted and decimated by about 5 RAF; no LW escorts.

We could use a couple more maps like that. Maybe 1 in 5?

[5./JG27.Farber]

Is there no way to script those messages to go to the chat window or 'voice' text instead?

Again I understand if no change is made. I'm mostly just asking for my own info. The server messages stuff kills the immersion for me with all the player kill/join/leave stuff.

+1 I hate the Orange in your face text, shame its not at the top of the screen and slightly smaller. Or in the chat bar.


Not quite sure what all the changes are. Although its certainly differrent. :-P

[klem]

+1 I hate the Orange in your face text, shame its not at the top of the screen and slightly smaller. Or in the chat bar.


Not quite sure what all the changes are. Although its certainly differrent. :-P

I did notice some of the messages (all of them?) repeating in the info window that gives the radar messages. Perhaps that can be done instead of the banner messages?

[bw_wolverine]

Played a new map on ATAG last night. Really good.

Lets separate the arguments.

1. As many Spitfire IIa's as you want. That's nice for a change and is welcome on the occasional map. LW whiners queue over there >>> :) But perhaps there should have been (more/some?) 109E-4s for balance?

2. A good feel to the missions, I like the information given (even if it is in 'banner' form). Enough AI bombers including a low level raid which was intercepted and decimated by about 5 RAF; no LW escorts.

We could use a couple more maps like that. Maybe 1 in 5?

I've played it a few times now. It's not bad except for the fact that it seems many blue pilots quit the server when it comes on.

Though, not before some smarmy comments about the Spit IIa and its advantages. And from a surprising source considering....

The ratio of Spit IIas to Hurricane Rotols/Spit Ias on the server at the time was 2 to 1. The ratio of E4's to E3/1's was 3 to 1.

Is there a limit on the E4 on that map? There shouldn't be.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Is there a limit on the E4 on that map? There shouldn't be.

E4's are limited to about 6 I think.

[klem]

Will ATAG move to the beta patch on its imminent release? Or will it wait for Steam release?

Release is probably next week :)
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=31097

[ATAG_Bliss]

Beta definitely!

[klem]

Beta definitely!

Good !
:D

[bw_wolverine]

New mission:

Aparently the 2nd British Bomber Flight gets destroyed many many times? Not sure if this is a bug or not. Pretty much like clockwork it came up every five minutes or so, along with Objective 11 Complete!

[Ataros]

S!, ATAG team!

I think some experienced C# coders are working on missions for your great server now. I hope the upcoming patch will fix CTD issue and allow more bombers flying in formation. As many people are missing COOP-style missions I have a suggestion for your server that can possibly make gameplay even more objective-based and incite more organized squads to participate making it truly tactical experience:

- a squad or any group of pilots on comms spawn in fighters/bombers at a same airfield. Probably there should be a limit like not less than 5 players must spawn together for a mission.

- anyone of them uses Mission Menu to command the server to spawn a group of AI bombers at the same airfield. This person becomes a flight-leader. Script checks how many players are present within a certain radius of the leader.

- number of AI bombers equals from 2x to 1x of number of human players. Bombers can be spawned on the ground or in the air in 5-minutes flight time from airfield with airfield being their next waypoint (to allow takeoff time for human players). Bombers may have standard mission targets for now. Later it is possible to allow flight-leader to select bomber types, target, loadout, altitude and even one - two waypoints as well as secondary pbjectives. The ratio of bombers spawn is varied from 2x to 1x (or less) of number of human players to prevent performance issues because of huge group size.

- friendly team is informed of the mission to gain more escorts

- in some time enemy team is informed of incoming flight to allow guarantied opposition in old-style COOP fashion. Flights without guaranteed opposition may became very boring quickly and will not attract many squad-players. High competitiveness is one of reasons COOPs were so popular among squads.

- 5+ players which participated in the mission creation are not allowed to create new mission for at least 15 minutes to prevent bomber spamming

- squad-based statistics is introduced to incite squads to get organized and create missions. Squads and pilots should get more points for flying squad-created missions or intercepting squad-created missions (for kills within a certain radius from the AI bombers)

- optionally a squad is able to announce a mission in several minutes before its start to invite more players into it. More players allow to spawn more bombers.

- individual pilots who are not on comms may gather a group of 5+ players via chat and create a mission

This activity may be added to current server missions, no need to get rid of current objectives of cause.

At a later stage recon and other types of missions can be added.

AFAIK technically it is possible to implement this now. If the bug breaking the menu for one of sides when number of airgroups exceeds certain number still exists, it is possible to limit number of flights by script, schedule flights for every 20 - 30 minutes, announcing countdown to start time. This will keep number of airgroups low fixing the bug and allow everyone who is interested to participate.

An autobalance script may reduce number of bombers available to one side (and increase fighter respawn time) depending on balance to prevent team stacking.

The main idea behind this is to give players and incentive for flying organized missions together. The incentive is quantity of bombers they can spawn. The more players is gathered the more bombers are available for a particular mission.
I hope squads and players like the idea.

[ATAG_Doc]

This is a good start but I want to say I am not at all a fan of anything that autobalances.

If a person wants do whatever they want then they should be allowed to take that risk.

I agree on providing an incentive to fly organized. I think that is why the server is objective based not statistical based.

I believe fighter squads want to do their thing. That's fine. I'd love to see less emphasis on individual stats and more on red vs. blue over all win/loss.

- squad-based statistics is introduced to incite squads to get organized and create missions. Squads and pilots should get more points for flying squad-created missions or intercepting squad-created missions (for kills within a certain radius from the AI bombers)

I like this objective in the idea. I do wish there was more interest in guys flying fighters to do more escorts or gunner positions. Just know that if your bomber has escorts it requires enemy to have fighters up to defend. That means they will engage bombers and eventually your fighters that come down to fend off the attack then you are at a dogfight again.

I think you have a lot of good ideas. I just do not care to see anything where you are forced to either do it or you just can't go in and create havoc.

There are a ton of people that spawn in and fly around and look for anything to shoot at and do when they see it.

[danjama]

Extremely disappointed in my experience on the ATAG server tonight. The action is spread very thin, even with 40 players in game. When asking for a bit of direction or encouragement in chat, nobody would reply or was of very little use. I found myself flying to locations and patrolling where I expected enemies to be, but they were simply not there.

I do not have TS installed yet on my machine, but i dont see why i should have to enter TS just for a little bit of co-operative play from my team.

This is exactly why I miss IL2 Co-ops.

[ATAG_knuckles]

Danjama: Certainly sorry for your disappointment. Personally I find it very difficult to attempt to fly and type. Also as i am busy looking for enemy I often miss chat messages.

Trust me no one ignores on purpose. Much of the fun in multiplayer is having the opportunity to talk to so many different people, and making friend at the same time.

Give team speak a chance, you wont be disappointed. If you see me on TS give me a holler, we can go to a "help" channel and work on anything you want.


Knuckles

P.S. most of the folkes on TS are a bloody hoot :eek:

[danjama]

Danjama: Certainly sorry for your disappointment. Personally I find it very difficult to attempt to fly and type. Also as i am busy looking for enemy I often miss chat messages.

Trust me no one ignores on purpose. Much of the fun in multiplayer is having the opportunity to talk to so many different people, and making friend at the same time.

Give team speak a chance, you wont be disappointed. If you see me on TS give me a holler, we can go to a "help" channel and work on anything you want.


Knuckles

P.S. most of the folkes on TS are a bloody hoot :eek:

No need to apologise it's not any member of ATAG's fault. I'll definitely make moves to get TS set up, but I just felt people could have been more helpful - especially considering its a closed-cockpit server. As I said though, nobody to blame for that.

Look forward to getting more involved in the future. Was probably just expecting too much because it's a Friday night.

Cheers!

[ATAG_Colander]

Danjama,

There are a couple more things to take into consideration:
1.- The more players in the server, the more the pilots are busy flying/fighting/bombing and talking over TS.
2.- Not everyone on the server speaks English. This also applies to TS as you will notice many times, there are more people on the server than on TS (besides the fact that some squadrons have their own TS server).

In short, I hope your next time is more "enjoyable".

~S~
ATAG_Colander

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/forum.php

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/banner.png

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hi Danjama,

I echo Knuck's regrets that your first foray onto the ATAG Server was less than satisfying. I confess that although I keep a chat window open, I miss more than I catch -- it scrolls so quickly. On occasion I've flown with TS deliberately turned off, and the feeling of isolation in such a large map (especially with no icons) can be overwhelming. Even a large furball is easily missed from nearby because the contacts are so inconspicuous.

I'm glad you've indicated that you'll be installing Teamspeak 3. As Knuckles would agree, it will change your experience and immersion 100%. The best tip I can give anyone is to log into the ATAG Server, intro yourself, and simply ask what's doing. If anyone is flying bombers an offer to escort is always gratefully accepted -- they'll give you the specifics of where best to spawn and how to meet up with them.

Here's a quick how-to on setting up TS for ATAG:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?732-Teamspeak-3-How-to-set-it-up!

If you need any further info, don't hesitate to PM me. Hoping we see you back online with us soon!

Snapper

[ATAG_Septic]

Hi Danjama,

I'm sorry to hear your first time on the server was not very rewarding. Sadly, there's an element of luck with obtaining assistance sometimes.

I was in the Help channel on Teamspeak with a new-to-the-sim flier for two hours last night. In all that time we only managed to get him near to the action once where he tore his ailerons off in his first dive, and he was a very experienced IL2 player. It was a timely reminder to me of just how many hurdles the game presents to someone new, I'm sure many people must just give up with the frustration. There's too often stark evidence of this in chat, as there was last night, when someone could not solicit the necessary assistance but the chat system is so limited that even with the time to type it's not much good for anything complex.

I've seen around forty people on recently, with only a few on Teamspeak and at times I'm guilty of hiding from communication, especially when I'm on late at night as I have to be quiet, but a few hours later and both chat and teamspeak are buzzing and its all immense fun. So I'm glad to hear you've not been put off and have the necessary perseverance to get going with the sim in its current state.

I hope to see you and many more in the skies over Dover soon old chap and if I'm able to be of any help, even in chat, I'll be only to glad to try.

Septic.

[TRIK]

AI BOMBERS never see em maybe putting a few more bombers in at abit more frequency will help :) , i remember when game 1st was out and on atag server ther were like a bomber squadron of stuka divers totaling maybe 18 planes in one go why cant we have some of this ?

[klem]

Danjama,

There are a couple more things to take into consideration:
1.- The more players in the server, the more the pilots are busy flying/fighting/bombing and talking over TS.
2.- Not everyone on the server speaks English. This also applies to TS as you will notice many times, there are more people on the server than on TS (besides the fact that some squadrons have their own TS server).

In short, I hope your next time is more "enjoyable".

~S~
ATAG_Colander

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/forum.php

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/banner.png

Just another 2p / 2c

The Reds generally make good use of the ATAG TS server, the other night there were about 25 Reds flying with 15 on TS. It is well worth using.

Comms discipline is important but is hard to enforce due to the voluntary nature of it all but if the main channel gets too 'chatty' its easy to suggest that guys planning a particular sortie move to a sub channel or, like 56RAF, to the channel provided for their Squad (we often have non 56'ers join us, its np) so that they can focus on their sortie.

That's not any kind of gripe, we've come to regard the main Allies channel as highly useful, sometimes a bit chatty but ok unless it gets overloaded but its no big deal to move channel.

Similarly if some people don't speak English (there don't seem to be many) they can move to a subchannel too which would help them avoid foreign cross-talk.

If there are a bunch of guys all doing different things then comms/TS will not be much value to them, better to work together and get the best out of it as often happens naturally on the Allies channels. I expect the Axis are the same.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Yep - That's why we have soo many channels. Colander had made some code that allowed you to move TS channels from within the in-game chat window so you wouldn't even have to alt+Tab out of game (if you're TS3 name was the same as in game) but we need the Coms menu to work correctly 1st.

[ATAG_Colander]

New mission being tested on Server 2.

Details here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=31421

[dnr]

Hey fella's, what was up on ATAG Axis Vrs Allies yesterday. I was quietly minding my own business, warming up my trusty Hurricane and waiting for my 401 Sqn mates, when I saw a Spitfire slowly pass by standing up on its wing which was buried up to the fusilage. It plowed a nice furrow in the ground as it slide by and then proceeded out into the countryside (maybe the local farmers needed help) only to be followed by another with it's elevators and rudder submerged underground and driving backward. I had to move to get out of the way. Later, as we were putting a big hurt on a Staffle of Ju 88s, I swung around for second pass coming in low only to see the Ju 88 that I was now targetting, flying almost fully upside down and going backward. It was all kinda' like a weird dream, and before you suggest it, there were no recreational sustances involved on my end.

Like our buddy Bill Shatner would say "Is that weird, or what?

Otherwise, your server rocks!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Don't know, dnr. We've had a few queries over at the ATAG Forum about last night regarding some massive warping problems, including those from Russia (high pings) and Ottawa, Canada (low pings -- the ATAG Server location is Chicago). I happened to be on the Server myself last night at the same time these problems were occurring, but it was running fine for me other than a sudden massive slowdown in frame rates when I was in a furball against two 109's.

Did you notice if your pings were erratic at the time?

[dnr]

Yeh they were erratic. I live just across the pond in Southern Ontario (Kingston) and I normally get a ping as low as 49 and sometimes as high as 80 or 90, but on Sunday it jumped up to 240 similar to the ACG server in the UK. I also got bad framerates, noticed some warping of planes and ships and at one point got kicked out (could have been a Steam problem I suppose). Anyway, just a funny thing to see as I normally get good results.

Just finished tonight and it was a flawless one hour flight. All was fine and those pesky 109s didn't find me. Whew!!!

I like the upgrades and may check out the ATAG 2 server this week.

Cheers from the great white north.

401 Sqn, we fly virtually anywhere!

[BH_woodstock]

can you please put your servers up in hyperlobby?

thank you ;)

~S~

[MK.Mr.X]

Hi all!:)
So many new nicknames (pilots) appeared on the server.
All the new forces of mainly supplement our ranks, it pleases.
To date, this is the best server. Definitely!
Do not stop there, Atagi success!;)

MK.Mr.X-always with you!;-)

[pupaxx]

Hey mk.mr.X, only rookie pilots here, you decimated all the experten!
Hope to see you again on atag!
Salute!

[icetbag]

Hi guys,

On the ATAG server tonight (approx 10-11pm GMT 0) flying a Rotol Hurri, must have been on for approximately an hour and I got a low system memory warning and CLOD was consuming a huge amount of memory for some reason, I had to leave the server and exit the game to free the memory up.

First time I've ever had it, havent changed anything in CLOD and I've been on the ATAG server in the past without issue. Im running the latest patch version (not a beta).

Anyone noticed higher than normal memory usage of late?

[ATAG_Colander]

Sorry all. Some problems where discovered once players started to join. The mission is now removed from rotation.

A new mission, courtesy of hc_wolf, was placed into the server's rotation.
There are lots of new goodies on it, hence be warned of the possible long loading times.

On this mission, the counts of planes available are decreased if the plane does not land behind friendly lines.
For example, if there are 10 E4's available and one crashes, there will be only 9 remaining. However, if the E4 returns to base, the availability will remain at 10.

Also, plane counts can be increased by completing objectives.

As usual, please report any issues on our forums.

Enjoy!

~S~

[Storm of When]

I`m back playing after 6 months away and I also enjoy the ATAG server.IMHO it would be nice to see a map based on when the RAF was still in France, thus compressing the action into a smaller area, I`ve spent ages flying round and not seeing a thing, the map`s massive and even with 30 on I`ve struggled to find a human opponent. Apologies if you have such a map btw, there used to be a BoF map doing the rounds, this was my favourite. Great server and thx for hosting.

[klem]

I`m back playing after 6 months away and I also enjoy the ATAG server.IMHO it would be nice to see a map based on when the RAF was still in France, thus compressing the action into a smaller area, I`ve spent ages flying round and not seeing a thing, the map`s massive and even with 30 on I`ve struggled to find a human opponent. Apologies if you have such a map btw, there used to be a BoF map doing the rounds, this was my favourite. Great server and thx for hosting.

NP. If you fly Blue just tells us where you are and we'll find you. :lol:

Best thing is to get on ATAG's Teamspeak and join up with others.

[Storm of When]

Will do, I seem to fly mostly red due to the inevitable imbalance, I guess the same blue only mob have ported over from IL2, personally I love the Rotol Hurricane. I`ll be on ATAG as much as possible as it`s pretty steady ping wise for me in the UK and is the most populated.

[klem]

Will do, I seem to fly mostly red due to the inevitable imbalance, I guess the same blue only mob have ported over from IL2, personally I love the Rotol Hurricane. I`ll be on ATAG as much as possible as it`s pretty steady ping wise for me in the UK and is the most populated.

Well if you're around on Wed and Sun evenings (7:30 onward) look us up. And there's usually someone from 56 on most evenings.

[SG1_Gunkan]

Love the server! Can you enable the external recording of online tracks? I would love to make videos from the real game server...

[ATAG_Doc]

That is external views while in the server. That is a limitation of CoD. Wish you could record and still have full switch but its either or.

[JG5_emil]

4 of us were in the server when it crashed JG5_Thijs, JG5_Schuck and myself. We now cannot join after the server reboot.

It is the Server authentication failed message we're getting

Cheers

Nick

[ATAG_Snapper]

4 of us were in the server when it crashed JG5_Thijs, JG5_Schuck and myself. We now cannot join after the server reboot.

It is the Server authentication failed message we're getting

Cheers

Nick

Hmmm, looks like you were able to get back in soon after you posted this.

[JG5_emil]

Hmmm, looks like you were able to get back in soon after you posted this.

Yes we were. Someone on TS told us we could join after the next server reset.

Thanks

[ATAG_Bliss]

That's why we restart the server after every mission. If not the list of people that can't join just grows and grows. Gotta love having to run the server as a client through steam.

[JG5_emil]

Yes it was strange, the other two guys were actually in the game but I was in the process of joining when it happened.

Thanks for the help.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Server 1 (Axis vs Allies) will be running the beta patch as soon as it's downloaded.

Who's ready for large formations of bombers without crashing? :)

[Blackdog_kt]

I think i'm sufficiently tempted to give it a shot, even though i'll probably be dying horribly most of the time.

Haven't flown much in quite a while due to real life commitments, but it will be good to see the corrected Blenheim CEM/FM, and maybe a working gyro on the Ju88 and fixed bombsight code for the bombers in general. The latter two are not mentioned in the patch notes, i'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

Count me in :-P

[von Brühl]

Have you guys got a test of multiple bombers yet? How many can you go up to now before CTD?

[ATAG_Bliss]

Have you guys got a test of multiple bombers yet? How many can you go up to now before CTD?

Sure can :)

See here: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=419782&postcount=163

[von Brühl]

Were these Ju-88s, He-111s, or Blenheims? I always suspected the Blennies require more processing, and more bugs, so crashed faster. Can't wait to fly a Blennie formation!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Were these Ju-88s, He-111s, or Blenheims? I always suspected the Blennies require more processing, and more bugs, so crashed faster. Can't wait to fly a Blennie formation!

88's, 111's, Stukas, and 110's :)

Btw, blennys could do some formation flying before the patch. I've been told they fly quite nice now!

__________________________________________________ _________________

On another note:

As of right now custom skins are turned on the server. That means not only the default skins, but all the wonderful community made skins can be used on the server.

With that said, loading of custom skins will cause long pauses and stuttering at times, but you have the choice as a client to turn on / off custom skins.

By going to your in game settings, then under the network tab, there's a box you can enable to allow/disallow custom skins. If you feel the stuttering/pausing is too much you can simply shut them off.

Personally I think we've gone on too long without having the ability to see some user made skins, so with the players having the ability to allow it or not, the extra stuttering/pausing to have some pretty skins is totally up to you guys.

[Blackdog_kt]

Have you guys got a test of multiple bombers yet? How many can you go up to now before CTD?

What Bliss said, plus another raid with 3 Ju88s and an escort of 2 109s and a 110, nobody crashed. ;)

As for the Blen, its engines now handle in a much more believable fashion and it's a breeze to fly. I momentarily disconnected from ATAG to try a quick mission with it last night.

For some reason it still spawns with rudder trim dialed in, which i forgot to correct, but even so i could take off just fine. If you remember, it used to veer to the right quite heavily pre-patch. It would be impossible to hold it straight with right trim dialed in, but post-patch i could just hold it straight with the rudder and as soon as i realized about the trim, i centered it and all was fine.

Most importantly, that was all on the stock, formerly almost impossible, cross country quick mission. Warm up happens much faster and the engines can deliver power without sputtering from as low a temp as 150 degrees or so, plus we now have partial flap settings (the lever has up, down and neutral positions) and the pitch and mixture levers correctly correspond to 2-way switches (no axis effect, just fine/coarse pitch and automatic rich/lean mixture).

Try it and you'll see for yourself. You just start the engines (mixture rich and prop pitch fine), trim for takeoff, give it 4-5 notches of flap, open cowl flaps, set boost cut-out to on and gradually advance throttles to maximum.

I managed to take-off just fine in the cross country mission with 100% fuel and a full bomb load. Happy times ahead :-P

[pencon]

Ok so I tried to register with atag and as a referer I put down 1c forums , and they rejected it . So What or who do I put down as a referer ?

[ATAG_Colander]

Ok so I tried to register with atag and as a referer I put down 1c forums , and they rejected it . So What or who do I put down as a referer ?

Pencon,

Strange... We are moderating the requests (i.e. every new request requires our approval) but unless we thought you where a bot trying to spam the forum, we don't reject anyone.

Please try again, unless I'm mistaken, the refferer could be anything, even blank.

Colander.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Ok so I tried to register with atag and as a referer I put down 1c forums , and they rejected it . So What or who do I put down as a referer ?

Strange. Did you try to register under the name pencon? Please try again. The referrer link doesn't matter. If it doesn't work, just PM me your email addy and I can manually make one for you.

[ATAG_knuckles]

Strange. Did you try to register under the name pencon? Please try again. The referrer link doesn't matter. If it doesn't work, just PM me your email addy and I can manually make one for you.

WOW that makes sense, when I registered I used

Leonard Spagoni and it worked, gee I though I guessed something special:grin:

[Dano]

Saw what was hopefully an unintended cheat tonight, bunch of 109s and Spits over Hawkinge, one of the 109s kept throwing out huge amounts of steam whenever somebody seemed to get on their tail, assuming their engine was on the boil but it certainly looked controlled from my vantage, this was causing my FPS to drop to single digits and lower making it very hard to stay with them, eventually resulted in my colliding with them :(

Other than that it was nice to have such decent fps over land :)

I did have my first launcher crash though :(

[ATAG_Snapper]

Saw what was hopefully an unintended cheat tonight, bunch of 109s and Spits over Hawkinge, one of the 109s kept throwing out huge amounts of steam whenever somebody seemed to get on their tail, assuming their engine was on the boil but it certainly looked controlled from my vantage, this was causing my FPS to drop to single digits and lower making it very hard to stay with them, eventually resulted in my colliding with them :(

Other than that it was nice to have such decent fps over land :)

I did have my first launcher crash though :(

Hi Dano,

Actually it's a graphical glitch and can --and does -- happen with fighters of both sides. The pilot of the aircraft in question is unaware of it happening. When we first witnessed this glitch we were accusing the hapless pilot of using his "fire extinguisher" to deliberately cause lag and/or warping to throw off our aim. Turns out -- not so. Seems like this glitch hasn't been fixed with the beta patch.

Also, I've been in a number of dogfights with this new patch where my frame rate suddenly drops from the mid-nineties (over the Channel) down to 1 fps -- a real slideshow. Happened last night online attacking 5 human-flown Ju88's, then again today mixing it up with 109's over Hawkinge. I reported the attacking-Ju88's frame rate drop to Ilya by email (along with my .dmp file and log.txt from an earlier CTD).

Lots left to fix, it seems.

[Dano]

Snapper, I am glad to read that, was quite concerned it was going to be CLoD's 'screenshot' cheat :)

[ReconNZ]

Hey there Atag guys

Where are all the bombers????? I've played ATAG a few times since the new patch came out - havent been on for a month or two before that.

Where the hell are all the bomber flights?? What frequency do you guys have them set at? I remember it used to be high level bombers, stukas all sorts of things happening. I was on there for over an hour with not a single enemy bomber flight reported by radar. And the two or three times before that i saw just one flight of wellies.

I get you now have objectives, but please increase the german ai bomber attack frequency. The server is kinda boring.

[von Brühl]

With the new FM's being "closer" to the dev team's aircraft test results, are we going to see the full range of planes being allowed now? Basically, since the SpitIIa is no longer the uber-plane, can we get full allowance on IIa's, E-4s, and Emil-Bs?

[ATAG_Colander]

ReconNZ,

Not sure what you mean. There still are AI bomber formations in the server.


Von Brühl,

Unlimited planes was enabled when the Alpha version was installed in the server although there are several missions in rotation so we might have missed one.

[von Brühl]

ReconNZ,

Not sure what you mean. There still are AI bomber formations in the server.


Von Brühl,

Unlimited planes was enabled when the Alpha version was installed in the server although there are several missions in rotation so we might have missed one.

Ok, just logged in real quick to check some settings about 3 hours ago, and no Emil-B's that I could find (need to tweak some loadout settings for them). Guess I'll check again in a bit.

[SEE]

You need to check all the airfields, e.g, only Mk1 Spits available at Gravesend on some missions but Spit2's enabled at others.

Reconz, one of the daylight missions has allied AI Bomber groups but no axis group spawning between them, as if a Script for an axis group isn't working or set. You could be joining when there is a around one and half hours with no bomber groups.

[outer beacon]

Is anyone else getting alot of server time outs on ATAG#1 tonight? I keep on getting them, 4-5 in a row now. Is there anything I can do, or is it a steam issue? Nothing changed with my router/hardware at my end.

If not I'll just try agaib tomorrow.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Try to direct connect. If you click on the forum link in my sig, look at the top and you'll see a "direct connect to server #1" tab. Just click on it and you should be fine.

The steam browser is taking forever to show up today with some never getting it. I imagine going through the browser isn't good right now.

[outer beacon]

Cheers Bliss. Will try that tomorrow.

[Thee_oddball]

Try to direct connect. If you click on the forum link in my sig, look at the top and you'll see a "direct connect to server #1" tab. Just click on it and you should be fine.

The steam browser is taking forever to show up today with some never getting it. I imagine going through the browser isn't good right now.


any luck listing through HL?

[ATAG_Bliss]

We'd have to code it to make it work. If things didn't crash (steam), then it'd be ok. We'll be using it someday though. Hopefully about the time server's don't have to connect as clients :)

[LeLv8_Otto]

As of right now custom skins are turned on the server. That means not only the default skins, but all the wonderful community made skins can be used on the server.

With that said, loading of custom skins will cause long pauses and stuttering at times, but you have the choice as a client to turn on / off custom skins.

By going to your in game settings, then under the network tab, there's a box you can enable to allow/disallow custom skins. If you feel the stuttering/pausing is too much you can simply shut them off.
Thanks for the nice server - we have enjoyed for it couple times in the past week. Looks like the CTD problem is mainly solved :)

Should the custom skins be enabled on server side now ? Me and my squad mates have them enabled on client side but for some reason skins do not show up.

[Dowly]

Should the custom skins be enabled on server side now ? Me and my squad mates have them enabled on client side but for some reason skins do not show up.

AFAIK the custom skins are disabled atm.

[bw_wolverine]

Question about the ATAG server missions:

The AI bombers are targetting...what?

I know the Luftwaffe bombers come in and hit some of the airfields, but other than that, what are the rest of them hitting? What do the British bombers hit?

If they don't currently, might I recommend that the bombers be made to target the AA defenses around the player bomber targets? That would give significant incentive to escort them - make it easier for the player bombers to attack their targets.

It might even be possible to have the AA regenerate after a period of time. Say, they get taken out by the AI Bombers and then there's a window of no AA cover before they come back, so get your player flown bombers launched!

Just a thought.

[Insuber]

Saw what was hopefully an unintended cheat tonight, bunch of 109s and Spits over Hawkinge, one of the 109s kept throwing out huge amounts of steam whenever somebody seemed to get on their tail, assuming their engine was on the boil but it certainly looked controlled from my vantage, this was causing my FPS to drop to single digits and lower making it very hard to stay with them, eventually resulted in my colliding with them :(

Other than that it was nice to have such decent fps over land :)

I did have my first launcher crash though :(

Those huge vapor trails seem to be a wrong rendering of the condensate trails from wingtips generated during tight turns. They are there since the beginning.

Cheers!

[ATAG_Bliss]

We're now on Hyperlobby - Please join through it ;)

[ATAG_Snapper]

We're now on Hyperlobby - Please join through it ;)

Will give it a go tonight! Did you and Jiri hit on a solution?

[SirAthlon]

We're now on Hyperlobby - Please join through it ;)

Nice :grin:

[ATAG_Colander]

We're now on Hyperlobby - Please join through it ;)

Bear in mind that the list of players connected shown in HL does not show the ones currently connected via other means (i.e. In game server list).

.

[SlipBall]

Bear in mind that the list of players connected shown in HL does not show the ones currently connected via other means (i.e. In game server list).

.


Interesting

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

We're now on Hyperlobby - Please join through it ;)

Cool!

Thanks Bliss:eek:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Tried it last night ie logging in through HL. Worked like a charm - no issues.

[III/JG53_Don]

Any plans when the new missions by hc_wolf go live on ATAG 1 which are currently tested on ATAG 2?
You know the ones with the huge bomber formations, an enhanced point system and so forth....

[BH_woodstock]

hey guys
past 2 nights i have been trying to play on the ATAG2 server in HL and i can join server no problem but when i go to create a plane it does nothing. i tried on all bases.

[Thee_oddball]

hey guys
past 2 nights i have been trying to play on the ATAG2 server in HL and i can join server no problem but when i go to create a plane it does nothing. i tried on all bases.

i had the same issue the other night...i was unable to see bases or create plane :( do you have any problems playing the single missions or traks?

[IvanK]

Whats the fix for the ServerFailAuthentication error message I get when trying to join either via the Server Browser or HL ?

I have tried exit of CLOD, Exit of STEAM, Reset of Router and PC. Still get the message after around 3 Hrs after it first displayed this.

Do I just need to wait till the server restarts itself ?

[Warhound]

@ Woodstock and Oddball : This occured on ATAG server 1 aswell and was fixed by Bliss shortly after..I guess noone noticed the same bug crept into ATAG2 aswell up till now.


@IvanK : The fix is waiting till the server itself restarts and releases all Steam ID's. As I understsand it's something to do with CLOD not releasing the ID's when you have a failure while connecting is in progress or if you cancel connecting as it's busy.
So don't ever cancel while the loading bar is showing or you will be locked out of that server till a restart!
It's the reason ATAG restarts every X hours and also that passworded servers end up showing high playernumbers after a while even if noone is on them. People try connect ,don't know the password so disconnect again..which adds 1 more to the playercount in the lobby.
Quite a horible bug and one that should have been fixed long ago.
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/228

[IvanK]

Ok thanks for the info Warhound

[ATAG_Bliss]

Any plans when the new missions by hc_wolf go live on ATAG 1 which are currently tested on ATAG 2?
You know the ones with the huge bomber formations, an enhanced point system and so forth....

Well tbh, we need to have the game fixed 1st. There's soo many things going on in wolfs fantastic missions that the game won't handle much over 15 players when they are on. Network goes to crap, loading time turns into 15 minutes etc. Trust me, we can't wait to be able to use them either :(

hey guys
past 2 nights i have been trying to play on the ATAG2 server in HL and i can join server no problem but when i go to create a plane it does nothing. i tried on all bases.

Ah that's because we have the options wrong in HL. I'll fix it right now. Thanks for the heads up!

i had the same issue the other night...i was unable to see bases or create plane :( do you have any problems playing the single missions or traks?

Fixing now. We had the "create planes" section shut off in the HL difficulty section. Ooops! :oops:

Edit: Should be fine now. Thanks for letting us know!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Whats the fix for the ServerFailAuthentication error message I get when trying to join either via the Server Browser or HL ?

I have tried exit of CLOD, Exit of STEAM, Reset of Router and PC. Still get the message after around 3 Hrs after it first displayed this.

Do I just need to wait till the server restarts itself ?

Yea Ivank. That's why we restart the server every mission end. If not tons of people wouldn't be able to play after a 24 hour window. Only way I've seen around the message is to wait until server restart/mission end.

But I believe the bug can only be created if you break the connection while loading into the servers. Just make sure, even if it takes 5 minutes, let it load or timeout without clicking the mouse to disconnect before hand and you should never get the auth error. ( I think!)

[BH_woodstock]

thank you!! :grin:

[322Sqn_Dusty]

june 2nd constant freezes and reboots on ATAG+fix server (0932 gmt)

[U505]

june 2nd constant freezes and reboots on ATAG+fix server (0932 gmt)

perhaps du to the number of payer ?:rolleyes:

[322Sqn_Dusty]

The server held 20 players at most that evening, i've flown with more. It was a complete reset, all players dropped. Late in the evening even Clod quit on us.

[klem]

Guys, I'm passing on some mission design observatioms from one of our members. It's not rocket science and I thing he hits several nails on the head. Would it be possible to change the emphasis of mission objectives in the way he says?

"it is all far too easy with the majority of targets for blue on or near the coast for low level sortie map wins, rather than some further inland were we should get intelligence on approx location and they need to map read and manage fuel. We are just not getting the BoB at the moment, but rather the old IL-2 server type set up for a map win. I was looking forward to something different with the BoB, but it appears not to be happening at the moment; perhaps due to problems with the sim coping with large bomber formations.
Thing is, at this time of the war the RAF was more geared for defensive ops in terms of effort, numbers and types of aircraft on inventory. On the other hand, the LW effort and aircraft inventory was very well geared up for offensive expeditionary ops. Our bomber force was insignificant as far as the result of the BoB was concerned, so red map wins should not be about red bombers hitting targets in France. Red are at a disadvantage from the off if we do not have the proper BoB scenario, but insist on sticking to non BoB scenario map win points.
I would like to see server maps with more emphasis on the RAF defending targets, including inland targets, against LW bombers and escorts, with map wins for red down to destroying or damaging X number of bombers and escorts (AI or human) and killing or capturing X number of pilots in a given time frame. If LW pilots and planes do not make it home to France and blue do not destroy enough targets (and there need to be a lot of them) that should be points in the bag towards a map win for red. Map wins for blue should be against targets destroyed, RAF fighter aircraft destroyed and fighter pilots killed/captured (there should be no reason to be over France to be captured or you are a liability as far as a map win is concerned) in a given time frame. By all means have targets in France for red bombers so that bomber pilots can get sorties in if they want, but red bomber activity, whether they hit targets, lose aircraft or get killed or captured should have no impact as far as scores for a map win is concerned. Maps should be set up to encourage people to fly red to attack bomber formations and fly blue to fly bombers, or fighters to escort the bombers.
In short, I think that more blue fighter pilots would escort blue AI and human bombers attacking England if the AI bomber loses counted as far as map wins for red were concerned, because then more red fighter pilots would attack bomber formations and we might get more ding-ding action as per BoB. Unless there is a change towards more BoB scenarios on the servers soon, we might as well not bother to think that CloD has anything to do with the BoB."

The only comment I would add is that if red bombing sorties are to contribute to the map win they should be aimed at disabling or reducing some AI bombers/formations or perhaps reducing numbers of LW fighter aircraft available either by type or by numbers. However the emphasis should remain on RAF Fighter defense and LW bomber offense and aircraft/pilot attrition on both sides for map wins.

[BH_woodstock]

been having problem getting into ATAG server 2 in HL

it gives a timeout everytime. Also i did not see it in client player list in game.

just wanted to give a heads up on it.

~S~

[JG52Krupi]

So where is everyone had less than 10 players on last night :(

[ATAG_Doc]

As ATAG_Colander once told me. Playing the game of Life. :)

[ATAG_Dutch]

So where is everyone had less than 10 players on last night :(

Sorry mate, have to confess that I'm loving the new RoF update. :)

Also trying to get the damned HSFX stuff downloaded.

Apparently it'll be here around the same time as the next patch for 'cliffs'.

According to the ETA on utorrent. :(

[ATAG_Snapper]

So where is everyone had less than 10 players on last night :(

I'm hoping with the upcoming patch we'll get some of the old players back. We'll see.

[ATAG_Colander]

Apparently it'll be here around the same time as the next patch for 'cliffs'.
(

So, in two weeks? :grin:

[notafinger!]

So where is everyone had less than 10 players on last night :(

It's ironic that the much anticipated patch that would cure most CTD's is also the patch which killed online play. It just shows how awful the flight models are that things were better before. Now we have impotent Spits/Hurris & unstable 109's.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Yea the reds are very unhappy. The 109 stall is pretty bad and some people are intent on keeping new players away from the game on this forum.

Also for me the amount of Bofors on ATAG server is my major turn off. I get shot down by bofors more than anything else. Now that alambash isnt doing cuban eights all over the red fields can we tone the bofors batteries right down? - please?

[ATAG_Dutch]

So, in two weeks? :grin:

Heh! So glad someone got it! :lol:

That is indeed what utorrent said initially, but then when I set it up properly it downloaded in about 4hrs. I went to the pub, which shortened the wait somewhat! :grin:

[Talisman]

It's ironic that the much anticipated patch that would cure most CTD's is also the patch which killed online play. It just shows how awful the flight models are that things were better before. Now we have impotent Spits/Hurris & unstable 109's.

Not just FM's and the like putting people off, but also the fact that we are not getting the BoB as far as on-line map/mission design is concerned (see post from Klem above dated 12 June). I suppose this is mostly to do with the current limited capability of the sim, but in the mean time a little more realistic map/mission design may help deliver more of the type of BoB action I believe people had looked forward to. The BoB was not about RAF bombers or fighters attacking the LW in France and not about Spitfires and Hurricanes escorting bombers to France; that is what happened after the BoB. Nor was the BoB about Me 109s attacking formations of RAF bombers over France. So, to add insult to injury regarding the FM's, we also have to suffer fighting the wrong battle. Rant over; for now, LOL.

Happy landings all.

[notafinger!]

Yea the reds are very unhappy. The 109 stall is pretty bad and some people are intent on keeping new players away from the game on this forum.

Also for me the amount of Bofors on ATAG server is my major turn off. I get shot down by bofors more than anything else. Now that alambash isnt doing cuban eights all over the red fields can we tone the bofors batteries right down? - please?

It's not just the 109 stall/spin but this patch made the E1/E3 poor gun platforms with the way the nose wobbles all over regardless of joystick sensitivity.

I used to fly bombers every now and then but you can only get sniped by AAA so many times before that gets old.

[SlipBall]

Yea the reds are very unhappy. The 109 stall is pretty bad and some people are intent on keeping new players away from the game on this forum.

Also for me the amount of Bofors on ATAG server is my major turn off. I get shot down by bofors more than anything else. Now that alambash isnt doing cuban eights all over the red fields can we tone the bofors batteries right down? - please?


On the 109, the speed needs to be monitored to prevent such a stall. I know sometimes things can get hectic, but speed has to be watched.:grin:

[ATAG_Bliss]

Not just FM's and the like putting people off, but also the fact that we are not getting the BoB as far as on-line map/mission design is concerned (see post from Klem above dated 12 June). I suppose this is mostly to do with the current limited capability of the sim, but in the mean time a little more realistic map/mission design may help deliver more of the type of BoB action I believe people had looked forward to. The BoB was not about RAF bombers or fighters attacking the LW in France and not about Spitfires and Hurricanes escorting bombers to France; that is what happened after the BoB. Nor was the BoB about Me 109s attacking formations of RAF bombers over France. So, to add insult to injury regarding the FM's, we also have to suffer fighting the wrong battle. Rant over; for now, LOL.

Happy landings all.

Trust me I do want the BoB as well but the dedicated server is by far the most broken aspect of the game. We have flying ships and that don't sink, AI that freeze in mid air or fly sideways, triggers that don't work, spawn points that are garbage, convoys that won't convoy (trailers fall off when spawned in the dedicated server environment), and that's just the small particulars. Couple this with insane FPS drops with a few planes around, people still getting CTD's, and FM problems that make flying red a misery atm, unless you want to fly around for hours on end and never get into a scuffle, there's not much we can do about it.

It's setup so red bombers can bomb. Blue bombers can bomb. Red fighters have stuff to shoot at if there's no blues and blue fighters have stuff to shoot at if there's no reds. Until the very basics of some of this are fixed, I don't see much point in taking away something from one side, especially with the very few numbers online currently. Most people want to be able to shoot or bomb something. When the game has gotten there, there will be BoB, but please realize literally everything we've done from our commander to the missions themselves have been a work around of the very big problems with the game itself. 1000's of hours have been put into finding what works and what doesn't in the online environment. Even some of the stuff / code, we use currently has a 50% failure rate for w/e reason. So please just bare with what we have to work with atm. We have an IL246 server up and made a mission similar to one of our Clod one's for nostalgia's sake. It took a few hours. Now realize the Cliffs of Dover one has around 2000 hours trying to work around all the bugs and problems for 50-60 players. That should say something.

We'll get there, but the game has to as well. Either that or Colander will just fix the game itself ;)

[klem]

Trust me I do want the BoB as well but the dedicated server is by far the most broken aspect of the game. We have flying ships and that don't sink, AI that freeze in mid air or fly sideways, triggers that don't work, spawn points that are garbage, convoys that won't convoy (trailers fall off when spawned in the dedicated server environment), and that's just the small particulars. Couple this with insane FPS drops with a few planes around, people still getting CTD's, and FM problems that make flying red a misery atm, unless you want to fly around for hours on end and never get into a scuffle, there's not much we can do about it.

It's setup so red bombers can bomb. Blue bombers can bomb. Red fighters have stuff to shoot at if there's no blues and blue fighters have stuff to shoot at if there's no reds. Until the very basics of some of this are fixed, I don't see much point in taking away something from one side, especially with the very few numbers online currently. Most people want to be able to shoot or bomb something. When the game has gotten there, there will be BoB, but please realize literally everything we've done from our commander to the missions themselves have been a work around of the very big problems with the game itself. 1000's of hours have been put into finding what works and what doesn't in the online environment. Even some of the stuff / code, we use currently has a 50% failure rate for w/e reason. So please just bare with what we have to work with atm. We have an IL246 server up and made a mission similar to one of our Clod one's for nostalgia's sake. It took a few hours. Now realize the Cliffs of Dover one has around 2000 hours trying to work around all the bugs and problems for 50-60 players. That should say something.

We'll get there, but the game has to as well. Either that or Colander will just fix the game itself ;)

We're very aware of the great job ATAG and others like them do to provide us with online mission maps. With no online provision by MG we have nothing without the community input and even that takes a team effort, its too much for a single guy to take on.

Although we can get online play because if guys like you, and it is enjoyable, it is stilted by the problems you face causing a lack of more realistic BoB scenarios and of course the lack of large numbers even though this often hits 50+ on the average European night. Its staggering to think that so many things are still not working properly but the dev team are clearly undermanned (but don't restart that discussion here).

[ATAG_Bliss]

Axis vs Allies updated to the latest beta patch!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Axis vs Allies updated to the latest beta patch!

Wow! That was quick! (That's what she said.....)

[macro]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR2hXUcV6QQSkIW1Gkk7gFHnq4K15VCn xrpiU2W-_PXaRAChBmzk8sVVbP1

[SlipBall]

So what do you guys think of the new patch on-line?...the gremlins gone:grin:

[Blackdog_kt]

There are some new methods for the scripts (check the FMB sub-forum), i think it's now possible to designate static/building target areas for area bombing.

Also, the Ju88 has a working gyrocompass and autopilot (it was the first thing i tested). If the bombsights have also been corrected (no time to test tonight, will try it tomorrow), we can probably start getting some level bombers up with appropriate objectives. ;)

[VO101_Tom]

Axis vs Allies updated to the latest beta patch!

Hi Bliss. When can we expect to abolish restrictions of the 109 E-4 numbers on ATAG?

[Skoshi Tiger]

Wow! Online rocks with 30+ players. Only had a single short mission.

Vulched taking off from Hawkinge, Rescued by team mate comming to my aid. Managed to get a gew shots on my attacker and was awarded a partial kill.

Wow, those brownings sound like they've got a punch since the patch.

Spotted a flight of Unidentified aircraft heading to france at about 10,000feet, vectored that way and flight turned out to be 4 unescorted Ju-88's returning from a mission.

Manuvered to attack position just as they approached the french coast. saw a single tracer flash infront of me, not sure if it was from a plane or from a bofors

Took out an engine on tail end charlie and he broke from formation and slid off trailing smoke rapidly loosing height. Need to get on the stats page to see if I got him.

Circled around back to the remaining three planes on the way I saw another spitfire closing in on the formation.

I came up behing one of the 88's and gave it to him, rewarded by a ball of flame/smoke and a wing comming off.

Just then I got bounced two 109's and started a circling fight that slowly decended to about a thousand feet.

All Credit to the guy in the spitfire, he broke off from an easy kill to help me out. Thanks Team mate!!!!

The dog fight seamed to go on for ages, But I couldn't get my guns onto either of the 109's,and something bad happened to my engine, I perforated the radiator. but tried to keep with the battle not wanting to leave my rescuer by himself with two opponents.

Just thin I got nailed between the eyes with a bofors round!

Thanks ATAG for putting up a patched server so quickly. COD is great in multiplayer!

Thanks team mates that helped along the way! Much appriciated!!!

[Blackdog_kt]

Got a few suggestions regarding mission design (the discussion a few posts up).

With the latest beta there are some new scripting tools available that permit setting area effect targets for level bombers. If we wanted to take this further we could even get airfields to disable after a certain % of damage, or after a certain amount of bombs drops within a radius from the center of the airfield.
Which is precisely what the LW was trying to do to the RAF, so we'll be having a more historically oriented scenario on our hands to fly.

For that to happen though, we need to iron out the kinks with the bombers. The ATAG guys host the server and tweak the scripts for us based on our feedback.

In the meantime, we can show some cooperation and help them towards attaining that goal by testing out the bombers. I urge anyone who is interested in moving towards a "BoB proper" scenario to take some time and test the bombers. Particularly, it's feedback on the bombsights that i'm interested most, are they working correctly after the latest beta patch?

I'll probably be online later on, i hope we can get a few people to experiment and see what's going on.

P.S. The reason i'm bringing this up now is that they fixed the Ju88 gyrocompass and added new scripting commands, so maybe they did a more thorough overhaul on bombing in general.

[ATAG_Colander]

Yes, the new path brings new mission possibilities however, the missions don't write and test them self :)
Here's an example: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?1797-Channel-Command&p=14790

Please be patient.

[Blackdog_kt]

Of course, that's the point i was trying to make.

Instead of twiddling our thumbs while you guys update things, it would be good to get a group of people practicing in the meantime, so that we know how to work with bombers when these things get implemented.

If we have 4-5 people that somewhat know what they are doing (meaning, a half-decent bomber formation, correct navigation and moderatly accurate drops) it would then be relatively easy to train more people to do it.

Then before you know it, we'd have 10-15 bomber pilots and everyone on the server would be having a better time ;)

[SlipBall]

Yes, the new path brings new mission possibilities however, the missions don't write and test them self :)
Here's an example: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?1797-Channel-Command&p=14790

Please be patient.


You guys are on the ball:cool:

[ATAG_Bliss]

Thanks to some suggestions I've made a new mission with a BoB'esque type feel to it. Reds must go after the bombers or lose the map/objectives. Blues must escort the bombers to target in order to take out objectives. Altitude is roughly 4000-6000m for the bomber groups. Should make for some hair raising high altitude combat. Definitely gonna need good team work for this one.

Good luck. Please let me know of problems.

[notafinger!]

Thanks to some suggestions I've made a new mission with a BoB'esque type feel to it. Reds must go after the bombers or lose the map/objectives. Blues must escort the bombers to target in order to take out objectives. Altitude is roughly 4000-6000m for the bomber groups. Should make for some hair raising high altitude combat. Definitely gonna need good team work for this one.

Good luck. Please let me know of problems.

Sounds good, I'm just hoping this takes place during daylight. My biggest beef with the ATAG missions is the times the mission builders are using. I understand some ATAG guys who only fly bombers like the darkness and there was the channel dawn map which gave them some cover. But now there are 2 or 3 missions where it is so damn hard to see anybody there is no point in even going up. It's hard enough to see contacts in broad daylight and when it's dark it forces the combat to be one dimensional by having to fly low just to be able to see anything. That gives a major advantage to the side who turns better.

Maybe part of the problem is the same missions keep hitting at the same times each day. My squad seems to be most active between 3PM-5PM EST and pretty much everytime there is a mission running with poor light. Is it possible to scramble the mission order?

Anyway, I really do appreciate the service ATAG is providing the community and basically single handedly keeping the multiplayer scene alive. When are we going to see that Dunkirk mission?! :-P

[Redroach]

damn hard to see anybody there is no point in even going up. It's hard enough to see contacts in broad daylight and when it's dark it forces the combat to be one dimensional by having to fly low just to be able to see anything. That gives a major advantage to the side who turns better.

In night-time there is no such thing as air-to-air dogfight. At least not with those machines available to us.

[SiThSpAwN]

Sounds good, I'm just hoping this takes place during daylight. My biggest beef with the ATAG missions is the times the mission builders are using. I understand some ATAG guys who only fly bombers like the darkness and there was the channel dawn map which gave them some cover. But now there are 2 or 3 missions where it is so damn hard to see anybody there is no point in even going up. It's hard enough to see contacts in broad daylight and when it's dark it forces the combat to be one dimensional by having to fly low just to be able to see anything. That gives a major advantage to the side who turns better.

Maybe part of the problem is the same missions keep hitting at the same times each day. My squad seems to be most active between 3PM-5PM EST and pretty much everytime there is a mission running with poor light. Is it possible to scramble the mission order?

Anyway, I really do appreciate the service ATAG is providing the community and basically single handedly keeping the multiplayer scene alive. When are we going to see that Dunkirk mission?! :-P


I actually feel the opposite, I like the time of day they are setting the missions, in certain situations it does make it tougher to spot (although with the latest patch I can spot easier...) but I love the ambiance :)

[SlipBall]

Two questions guys

1. JU-88 can't create with two other AI pilots ?...only myself with my one bomber, instead of three, me and two AI aircraft

2. why do my engines smoke black so bad, on startup and warming up.

I'm new to the CEM for the 88, thanks for the tips

[5./JG27.Farber]

In continuation with my discussion with ATAG Colander, I would like to add:

The sheer amount of Bofors on the ATAG maps makes the server unenjoyable for me and my squad mates.

There are in fact so many AA guns I actually cant remember the last time I was lagitimatley shot down by another human pilot. Please do not take this as bragging, I am at best an average pilot, this is a sincere and just statement.

The AA guns, as far as I beleive, were placed to prevent "vulching" with special regard to a pilot by the name of alambash. Considering I have not seen him online for some considerable time and all 100 octane fighters are airspawning this means that currently vulching on the red side is impossible on red fighters!

Furthermore as has been stated by ATAG on many occasions if you are getting "vulched" then you should move to a different airfield, get on comms, dont get mad and get even! - there are no rules on ATAG except that everyone must respect one another.

Yet ATAG seem also to want to balance the game and as such are influencing the way that the game is played upon their server. By having so many AA guns the best red fighter tactic is to stay on the deck over England and use the AA as a weapon not themselves - knowing that we blue fighters cannot engage with red pilots (as the game is for!) with out having to come to them and be damaged by AA so that they inturn may finish the process and claim victory over a blue pilot. A false victory.

Please understand this not an attack on anyone, nor ATAG nor red fighter pilots, but a perspective of a Blue fighter pilot who wishes to enjoy this simulator and the ATAG server but cannot due to this machanic which is shaping the events as I mentioned above.

I would also like to salute the red pilots who have something about them to fly not only exclusively over England but to come to the neutral ground of the channel and beyond into our terrortory where they too face the same redicoulous prospect of being hammered by the AA in the same way as do we Blue pilots when over England. What joy it brings me when the reds attack us for a change or we engage each other over the channel!

If the AA was as good in real life as it is in this game then England would not have needed RAF fighter command! The whole purpose of this sim, I am sure you will agree, is to emulate the Battle of Britian. The ATAG server has about 9 Bofors for ever active airfield. Im am confident without checking that there are more Bofors than in the actually real war where they did not engage with even half the range of the current bofors in game.

Please address this problem before I cannot anymore find myself to use you server.

S!

[Abbeville-Boy]

quote: please address this problem before I cannot anymore find myself to use you server.



bofors are needed as deterant for both sides or server will suffer. If you leave server will suffer too

[Flanker35M]

S!

Thanks ATAG crew for the server :) Had a blast there in the last couple of days with people. Attacking targets, listening to vectors coming over the radio and all that. That is what I call immersion :)

So a Salute and thank You from me to ATAG :)

[ATAG_Bliss]

In continuation with my discussion with ATAG Colander, I would like to add:

The sheer amount of Bofors on the ATAG maps makes the server unenjoyable for me and my squad mates.

There are in fact so many AA guns I actually cant remember the last time I was lagitimatley shot down by another human pilot. Please do not take this as bragging, I am at best an average pilot, this is a sincere and just statement.

The AA guns, as far as I beleive, were placed to prevent "vulching" with special regard to a pilot by the name of alambash. Considering I have not seen him online for some considerable time and all 100 octane fighters are airspawning this means that currently vulching on the red side is impossible on red fighters!

Furthermore as has been stated by ATAG on many occasions if you are getting "vulched" then you should move to a different airfield, get on comms, dont get mad and get even! - there are no rules on ATAG except that everyone must respect one another.

Yet ATAG seem also to want to balance the game and as such are influencing the way that the game is played upon their server. By having so many AA guns the best red fighter tactic is to stay on the deck over England and use the AA as a weapon not themselves - knowing that we blue fighters cannot engage with red pilots (as the game is for!) with out having to come to them and be damaged by AA so that they inturn may finish the process and claim victory over a blue pilot. A false victory.

Please understand this not an attack on anyone, nor ATAG nor red fighter pilots, but a perspective of a Blue fighter pilot who wishes to enjoy this simulator and the ATAG server but cannot due to this machanic which is shaping the events as I mentioned above.

I would also like to salute the red pilots who have something about them to fly not only exclusively over England but to come to the neutral ground of the channel and beyond into our terrortory where they too face the same redicoulous prospect of being hammered by the AA in the same way as do we Blue pilots when over England. What joy it brings me when the reds attack us for a change or we engage each other over the channel!

If the AA was as good in real life as it is in this game then England would not have needed RAF fighter command! The whole purpose of this sim, I am sure you will agree, is to emulate the Battle of Britian. The ATAG server has about 9 Bofors for ever active airfield. Im am confident without checking that there are more Bofors than in the actually real war where they did not engage with even half the range of the current bofors in game.

Please address this problem before I cannot anymore find myself to use you server.

S!

I don't understand how you are getting shot down so much with flak. The flak hardly does anything unless you are low and slow. I'm actually trying to think the last time that any sort of flak/AAA shot me down, and I'm usually a person that will fly my 109 right through the enemies hanger "to stir up the hornet's nest" :)

But not only as a deterrent, the flak is there to force people to try to level bomb at altitude. It's there for the opposing side to allow others to spot enemies. One of the hardest things in the game considering the LOD issues is spotting of aircraft. But, to me, the flak (unless you are low and slow / loitering around an enemy airfield) won't hit you often. One thing I've found, that I like, is that the AAA takes some time to hone in on you. So it's very poor to begin with, but if you hang around in one spot for a few minutes to long it can get some hits.

We can't be historic, when some of the stuff we do is just a work around for stuff that doesn't work properly in the game. But I think the flak, is, if anything quite underpowered. I know in RL if I was at an active airfield and there was some 109 constantly circling, vulching, etc, I'd be shooting anything I could at you. But I don't think many 109's dove from 6000m to 100ft to chase an enemy on the opposing lines near an airfield either. And I honestly can't remember the last time AAA ever got me when I was over 3000m ever in the sim.

S!

Thanks ATAG crew for the server :) Had a blast there in the last couple of days with people. Attacking targets, listening to vectors coming over the radio and all that. That is what I call immersion :)

So a Salute and thank You from me to ATAG :)

Thanks m8 :grin:

[ATAG_Dutch]

The AA guns, as far as I beleive, were placed to prevent "vulching" with special regard to a pilot by the name of alambash.

You give the bloke too much credit Farber mate. As a former dedicated Blenheim pilot, I can tell you that the AAA on the other side is just as lethal.

I even distrusted the balance of it so much, I once (and only once) flew a Ju88 from France over to England, flew over the targets a number of times, and reported back that the intensity of the 'bofors!, bofors!' was woefully inadequate. Nowhere near the intensity that yer average Blenny pilot experienced over France.

Welcome to the club! :grin:

[ATAG_Bliss]

Two questions guys

1. JU-88 can't create with two other AI pilots ?...only myself with my one bomber, instead of three, me and two AI aircraft

2. why do my engines smoke black so bad, on startup and warming up.

I'm new to the CEM for the 88, thanks for the tips

1.) The airfields are setup that way so the possibility of 100 planes spawning at one time doesn't exist. This used to cause big stutters setting the airfields to spawn more than 1 plane at a time. We have to wait on some stuff to get fixed before allowing that atm.

2.)They always do at idle and it's a real FPS killer. I have no idea why they smoke like a freight train. :-)

[5./JG27.Farber]

Well if thats the way you feel ATAG then I know what I have to do. ;)

[ATAG_Colander]

Going back to the flak/bofors....
I seem to remember seeing somewhere that the flack, more than bringing planes down, was a crew killer.
Anyway, I don't remember any in game messages stating gunner killed by flak or something similar so for now, it seems to be just an "eye candy" FPS waste.

[SlipBall]

Going back to the flak/bofors....
I seem to remember seeing somewhere that the flack, more than bringing planes down, was a crew killer.
Anyway, I don't remember any in game messages stating gunner killed by flak or something similar so for now, it seems to be just an "eye candy" FPS waste.


I did see a few yesterday on the server. If low and strafing an airfield, the bofors can cramp your style. :-P

[Robo.]

There are in fact so many AA guns I actually cant remember the last time I was lagitimatley shot down by another human pilot. Please do not take this as bragging, I am at best an average pilot, this is a sincere and just statement.

I've seen you complaining in the chatline yesterday and my guess is you've been just unlucky. I agree with the others that unless you end up low and slow circling the RAF airfield, the AAA is not much of a threat for a small 109s. In fact even the German aircraft strafing the bases (Hawkinge and Manston as per objectives) didn't seem to be bothered too much and Stukas or 110 got away easily unless they loitered in ther for too long. Yes the visual show is nice, the flak can give your position away and it actually hits sometimes. Like 1 in 500 burst can come really close. In fact it is just as likely to hit your Spitfire in the same area because the ack ack chaps don't bloody care! :D

I suggest you keep flying on ATAG and stay away from the actual bases, fly higher up and you should be fine just like everybody else.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I suggest you keep flying on ATAG and stay away from the actual bases, fly higher up and you should be fine just like everybody else.

We do and there is rarely anythiung to do up there because all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.

I take it no one actually red my post that hard. :rolleyes:


I must admit it does make me laugh when I see so and so red pilot was shot down by bofors. :-P


I'll tell you the only things that ever happen if you are hit by bofors:

1.Nothing
2.Loss of aileron controls
3.Loss of elevator Controls
4.Loss of rudder controls
5.Pilot kill
6.A combination of the above

So either way you headed back acrros the channel with half your controls gone.

[notafinger!]

I am in agreement with Farber about the AAA on ATAG. Just yesterday my 109 was cut in half by bofors over Manston and on multiple occasions I've seen people lose wings at high alt just cruising. I have little interest in flying bombers on either side as even a high speed pass over a target will get you pk'd or have a major control surface destroyed. The flak on both sides is insanely deadly. If I'm flying blue and I'm being chased back across the channel, I just drag them to the Oye-Plage target and it's game over for them.

The problem is the accuracy of the faster firing small caliber guns and the composition of guns ATAG's mission builders are using. There are these odd blocks of AAA over bases/targets with 1 large caliber in the center surrounded by 8 smaller caliber guns. Because the guns are so close together they tend to fixate on a single target no matter how many enemy are in the vicinity. Over Hawkinge you'll often see a single 109 getting all the AAA while 2 or 3 buzz about without a single puff going off near them. If the guns were spread out a little more and the ratio of large/small caliber guns tweaked it would be more believable and more planes would come under a smaller amount of fire.

Also, you can't really tell people to stay away from the bases considering there are bases & targets all along the coast of England. The fact is there are very few red pilots who come to France or even venture out over the channel forcing blue to come to red most of the time. So with the exception of the Blenheim boys, most of the red fighter pilots haven't really experienced the might of the AAA. Come to France more often and you might begin to sympathize with what Farber is saying.

[Robo.]

I admit I have not flown any 109 sorties in this patch and there were some changes with the missions on ATAG, too. I have had no problem before for I never really enjoyed buzzing the airfields. I remember the times when you could land your 109 in Hawkinge without getting any damage. They might go the other extreme now, I don't know. I also rarely get across to France as I am and defending interceptor. I do fly CAP over French coast quite often, flak was reasonable but I had no reason to go anywhere near the airfields.

We do and there is rarely anythiung to do up there because all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.

I assure you there is quite a few Spitfires flying up there. I believe we had a nice 20k drag and bag tackle with someone from I./JG26 (not sure, just judging from the skill) somewhere mid channel. Don't generalise on all red pilots please. It is true that sometimes you get attacked by LW right after take-off and it's not easy to extend from the fight with the performance we've got. If you have any advise on that that would be appreciated.

I must admit it does make me laugh when I see so and so red pilot was shot down by bofors. :-P

I am glad you're having a laugh. Just to let you know that you can easily get hit by own AAA while taking off (the ack acks really don't care and shoot no matter if there are friendlies in the area).

I'll tell you the only things that ever happen if you are hit by bofors: (...)

You have to try not to get hit by bofors then. I am aware of that damage, I spend quite a lot of time in a 109 and it's the same if you get hit by the AAA on the other side. Controls gone, engine gone, pilot dead...

I am not saying that ATAG is ok now and realistic because I don't know but you have to take AAA in account if you're the invading guys. What is the altitude where Bofors shoots anyway? I'd say I have never seen the white Bofors burst above some 5000 ft. Heavy flak alright, but that's inaccurate unless you really have bad luck.

[ATAG_Septic]

We do and there is rarely anythiung to do up there because all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.

I take it no one actually red my post that hard. :rolleyes:




You make two incorrect and frankly insulting assumptions. My subjective experience is largely flying along both coasts, for both sides in a fighter at 15k plus and I'm usually alone. After an hour or so I sometimes choose to land at Hawkinge (when playing red) as doing so often leads to some action. I make no assumption or comment about how others choose to enjoy their game.

Septic.

Septic.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I admit I have not flown any 109 sorties in this patch and there were some changes with the missions on ATAG, too.


You have to try not to get hit by bofors then. I am aware of that damage, I spend quite a lot of time in a 109 and it's the same if you get hit by the AAA on the other side. Controls gone, engine gone, pilot dead...

I am not saying that ATAG is ok now and realistic because I don't know but you have to take AAA in account if you're the invading guys. What is the altitude where Bofors shoots anyway? I'd say I have never seen the white Bofors burst above some 5000 ft. Heavy flak alright, but that's inaccurate unless you really have bad luck.

Youdo fly 109's or you dont? I am confused. :confused:

The altitude where bofors stop firing at you is 3500 metres. :rolleyes:

Please can we all start to distinguish between AA (bofors etc) and AAA (FLAK, 88's etc) My problem is only with the AA.


SEPTIC:

I did not mean to insult anyone. If you were insulted Im am sorry. However I do not see where I insulted someone.

[Robo.]

Youdo fly 109's or you dont? I am confused. :confused:

I do quite a lot, but not on ATAG since the last beta patch is out. I thought it was clear from what I wrote.

The altitude where bofors stop firing at you is 3500 metres. :rolleyes:

I suggest you stay above 10000 ft whenever possible then. Under 3500m I find rather low especially over enemy territory and near airfields.

Please can we all start to distinguish between AA (bofors etc) and AAA (FLAK, 88's etc) My problem is only with the AA.

I agree. Flak and 88' is the same thing btw.

I did not mean to insult anyone.

I don't know, you certainly didn't insult me - I just pointed out that there is always a way not to get shot down by the AAA (or AA if you really mind) and that it is certainly not true that 'all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.'

Cheers, hope to see you on ATAG again.

[5./JG27.Farber]

The best solution I can see is if the AA could be set to only open fire on a target within a set range as they could in the old IL2. I think 1km would be right for AA. Whereas the AAA is fine.

[Robo.]

I think 1km would be right for AA.

Why do you think that? Because it's shooting at you? ;) Bofors has had effective ranges of 3500 yards (cca 3200m) and it certainly attempted to shoot at targets above 1000m. I understand you're reporting this issue from the playability point of view but even in the sim the chance you get hit is lesser if you're further away from the gun. You know there is AA on the airfields and there is AA protecting the targets. Just don't fly down there in these areas. If you do, you're likely to be hit. That's the price for catching the low flying RAF taking off or landing. Pretty fair and realistic I'd say.

I don't know anything about mission making and I appreciate what notafinger! said about blocks of AA guns and their amounts, but I don't see anything wrong with the gun range. Just my opinion of course.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Why do you think that? Because it's shooting at you? ;) Bofors has had effective ranges of 3500 yards (cca 3200m) and it certainly attempted to shoot at targets above 1000m. I understand you're reporting this issue from the playability point of view but even in the sim the chance you get hit is lesser if you're further away from the gun. You know there is AA on the airfields and there is AA protecting the targets. Just don't fly down there in these areas. If you do, you're likely to be hit. That's the price for catching the low flying RAF taking off or landing. Pretty fair and realistic I'd say.

I don't know anything about mission making and I appreciate what notafinger! said about blocks of AA guns and their amounts, but I don't see anything wrong with the gun range. Just my opinion of course.

So what your saying is, Im vulching and deserve what I get. Im Vulching if I go below 3.5km? :confused:


Im sticking to this:

In continuation with my discussion with ATAG Colander, I would like to add:

The sheer amount of Bofors on the ATAG maps makes the server unenjoyable for me and my squad mates.

There are in fact so many AA guns I actually cant remember the last time I was lagitimatley shot down by another human pilot. Please do not take this as bragging, I am at best an average pilot, this is a sincere and just statement.

The AA guns, as far as I beleive, were placed to prevent "vulching" with special regard to a pilot by the name of alambash. Considering I have not seen him online for some considerable time and all 100 octane fighters are airspawning this means that currently vulching on the red side is impossible on red fighters!

Furthermore as has been stated by ATAG on many occasions if you are getting "vulched" then you should move to a different airfield, get on comms, dont get mad and get even! - there are no rules on ATAG except that everyone must respect one another.

Yet ATAG seem also to want to balance the game and as such are influencing the way that the game is played upon their server. By having so many AA guns the best red fighter tactic is to stay on the deck over England and use the AA as a weapon not themselves - knowing that we blue fighters cannot engage with red pilots (as the game is for!) with out having to come to them and be damaged by AA so that they inturn may finish the process and claim victory over a blue pilot. A false victory.

Please understand this not an attack on anyone, nor ATAG nor red fighter pilots, but a perspective of a Blue fighter pilot who wishes to enjoy this simulator and the ATAG server but cannot due to this machanic which is shaping the events as I mentioned above.

I would also like to salute the red pilots who have something about them to fly not only exclusively over England but to come to the neutral ground of the channel and beyond into our terrortory where they too face the same redicoulous prospect of being hammered by the AA in the same way as do we Blue pilots when over England. What joy it brings me when the reds attack us for a change or we engage each other over the channel!

If the AA was as good in real life as it is in this game then England would not have needed RAF fighter command! The whole purpose of this sim, I am sure you will agree, is to emulate the Battle of Britian. The ATAG server has about 9 Bofors for ever active airfield. Im am confident without checking that there are more Bofors than in the actually real war where they did not engage with even half the range of the current bofors in game.

Please address this problem before I cannot anymore find myself to use you server.

S!

[Robo.]

So what your saying is, Im vulching and deserve what I get. Im Vulching if I go below 3.5km? :confused:

No, I didn't say any of that (vulching & deserving) at all. :o

All I am saying is that 3.5km Bofors radius around the airfield seems to be reasonable to me (again, my opinion only). I said stay away from the well defended areas because that's what I would do.

[Steuben]

As a pilot that is doing jabo missions with 110 and 109E3 b and 4 b i can absolutly say the AA is deadly. Its very hard to make it back in one peace when doing low level bombing.

[Blackdog_kt]

Two questions guys

1. JU-88 can't create with two other AI pilots ?...only myself with my one bomber, instead of three, me and two AI aircraft

2. why do my engines smoke black so bad, on startup and warming up.

I'm new to the CEM for the 88, thanks for the tips

1. There is a despawn script running on the server to prevent overloading it. What this means is that any aircraft that is not piloted by a human player will automatically disappear after a while.

2. If you keep your RPM too low you get the black smoke (maybe the injection system doesn't work that well at idle and you get too rich mixture). Try idling at a bit higher throttle, the aircraft is heavy enough to stay in place. If my memory serves me right about 7%-8% throttle solves the problem, which is just a touch of the levers forward.


On the matter of flak now...

I fly bombers or something that carries a bomb 90% of the time (on either team) and i actually like the flak. It forces me to make interesting tactical decisions that drive me to more realistic gameplay behaviors.

Get that Blen up to 4000ft to level bomb and lose some accuracy but defeat all the low-alt rapid firing flak, or make a dive bombing run for increased accuracy and run the gauntlet?

Loiter over the enemy areas in search of targets taking off/landing and risk the flak, or fly higher and bounce them while they climb out?

etc, etc.

If anything, i think the flak is actually pretty ineffective at deterrence (i don't expect it to be the main aircraft killer in the sim, but i expect me to feel some respect for it).

Sure, with some mission profiles it's 99% certain that i'll get shot down (eg, low altitude pass or multiple passes over the target) but even then it's usually because i hang around to see the result of the impacts. In fact, i think there hasn't been a single case where flak has succeeded in defending a target. No matter what, even if i get damage i'm always able to swoop in and drop bombs on the target. And we're talking a single aircraft here, without wingmen or bomber formations to spread the flak out among more players.

I've managed to destroyer the Oye Plage target in one pass in a Blenheim and i've done the same to the armory target in G7 with an 88. Flak be damned, i'ma dropping mah bombs and that's the end of the story :-P

Something similar happens with the ships as well. I can take a 110 and make 10 consecutive sorties that will play out exactly the same. I will skim the waves at 450km/h, sink two ships per run and pick up a Spit or two that will be circling way too low to be able to accelerate in a dive and stop me in time. From that point on it depends on how persistent they are. If they keep following me they'll catch up somewhere over France and if i have no friendlies nearby they'll shoot me down, otherwise i will land back home. In the meantime, the ships are not covered and another 110 is sinking two more of them :-P

I think the problem is that we are forced into artificial balancing through mission design, because we don't have the tools yet that would allow the players to do it on the fly (literally).

If bombers could reliably level bomb (most bombsights are currently bugged), the 109s would be up there escorting them and wouldn't need to play "look at me, i'm over Hawkinge" to get a fight. Then it would make sense to punish the ones that do it by making the flak really deadly. Similarly, the RAF would have a real target and would go up there to tangle with them, especially if the availability of 100 octane fighters depended on not getting its oil refineries and storage facilities bombed to smithereens.

For this to happen however, we need bombers that can level bomb, scripts and FMB triggers that work as intended and the netcode to run all these things reliably. In the meantime we just make do with artificial balancing decisions and these will have advantages and drawbacks. My take on things is just use what's available, enjoy what works and learn whatever i can, then when things get fixed it will be much easier to adapt to the new way of doing things ;)

[ATAG_Colander]

Well said Blackdog.
As I stated before, let's wait for the game to be fixed before we worry about smaller issues.

[Flanker35M]

S!

I have no problem with flak on ATAG server. As stated above plan your attack so the exposure to the flak is minimal and as it takes a while for them to "wake up" = get in and out fast. Doing so you are most times out of harm's way when they start shooting, at least the Bofors :) Heavy flak is just a nuisance pointing out your general location. If you enter a target with someone already on it then you can be sure flak responds faster as it is already triggered. Or am I wrong?

Another thing is that if you vulch then suck it up when dying :) Flak is awake and waiting by then and you are well within their engagement envelope while circling the field at low altitude and slow speed.

Thanks ATAG again for enjoyable moments :) Was fun!

[CaptainDoggles]

Phew!

Keller, Colander, Lolsav, Ernst, Chasing Fear and myself just had one seriously awesome sortie.

We all took off piecemeal but eventually met up over Folkestone and flew in a really nice formation for a while which made for nice screenshot opportunities.

Shortly thereafter, BigTrout was hitting targets at low altitude near Manston so we all made our way over there and, using teamspeak to maintain our SA, proceeded to smack down a whole bunch of spitfires (and also a single 100-octane hurri). Oddly enough the Red guys kept spawning underneath us and trying to climb up through the dogfight, so we never really lost the advantage until some of the 71st guys came in from a different airfield.

Eventually it was just me and poor Keller who'd done most of the dragging (and none of the bagging). I can't remember if he got a kill at the end or not, but kudos to Keller for being a good team player.

Big thanks to all you guys for a fun sortie, and ATAG for hosting. http://simhq.com/forum/images/graemlins/default/salute.gif


EDIT: Also, I got razzed a lot because I ran into a Wellington that I swear was invisible. :oops::oops:

[5./JG27.Farber]

On the matter of flak now...



Flak is not AA... if this was in refrence to what I mentione earlier - there is a diffrence.


Today I challanged the RAF the to come up to altitude - AND THEY DID! AWESOME! ;)

[CaptainDoggles]

Flak is not AA... if this was in refrence to what I mentione earlier - there is a diffrence.


Today I challanged the RAF the to come up to altitude - AND THEY DID! AWESOME! ;)

Despite the usual tactic of swirling around on the deck, I've noticed some serious RAF presence at altitude of late. The =AN= guys have been climbing up to where the Spit outperforms the 109 and then using team tactics to dominate.

I try to stay away if I don't have a wingman :eek:

[Robo.]

Today I challanged the RAF the to come up to altitude - AND THEY DID! AWESOME! ;)

You don't have to challenge anyone, we fly high regardless of your silly remarks in the chatline. ;)

[Robo.]

Despite the usual tactic of swirling around on the deck, I've noticed some serious RAF presence at altitude of late. The =AN= guys have been climbing up to where the Spit outperforms the 109 and then using team tactics to dominate.

I try to stay away if I don't have a wingman :eek:

We fly at different timezones so we never really meet on ATAG, I know =AN= fellas are flying high and so is quite a few of other pilots I know. I would not say Mk.II outperforms the 109 up there, I'd say the performance gap is not as big as at lower altitudes and by deploying some decent team tactics it is possible to have a nice and even(-ish) fights. You can't really dominate a pilot with equal skill even up there. Despite the ususal tactics of running home when things get hotter ;) I am really having fun with higher alt dogfights with the 109s.

As for flying low - I guess it's the same on both sides, only certain squads bother climbing. You can't generalise and also, not everybody enjoys flying at 20k when the skies are empty because the blues are somewhere at 1km above Hawkinge (Manston, Lympne...). Fair enough. It's when I see the I./JG26 boys or our JG26 lads joining when I know the real fun and challenge begins and I climb from my 15000 to 20000 feet. All the best on the US side of the ATAG mate. ;)

[CaptainDoggles]

I would not say Mk.II outperforms the 109 up there

I think once you get up to about 6000m/~19000ft then the 109 loses its speed advantage.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Was escorting some bombers after had dropped my bombs on a target. Was flying around 5-6km altitude in the Bf110C-7 and we got engaged by Spitfires. I think Robo was there and some others. But it was rather easy to keep distance from a Spitfire in the Bf110C-7, their speed difference is not that big and I bet most of it boils down how well you trim the plane. I had mine pretty nicely in trim at all times and kept RPM at optimal, required a lot of prop pitch adjusting but manageable :) Shame the Bf110 turns like a brick, but if you get to B&Z it holds it's own quite well :)

[Robo.]

I think once you get up to about 6000m/~19000ft then the 109 loses its speed advantage.

They become about equal at said altitude, I wouldn't say that by losing speed advantage you're getting 'outperformed'. I agree with what Flanker35M says - you can get bnzd even up there if you're not careful and it boils down to CEM and trim (overall skill I would say). I really enjoy these kinds of flights, I guess larger bomber groups flying at 17000 also helped so well don ATAG! Yeah and you're right btw, you got involved with No.64 and No.501 Squadrons, there were two 110 escorting the bombers - nice view and good job. S!

[Osprey]

I think once you get up to about 6000m/~19000ft then the 109 loses its speed advantage.

Use your head not your heart, keep your energy and speed, never turn with him and stay on top..........:rolleyes:


I'm regretting not joining in btw, I could have but chose to play a bit of guitar instead.....all on my lonesome....yet I could've been nailing Fritz for the second day running.

A message to those ATAG loners, if you want to get involved in a crew then look us up, we like to be up high and in some sort of organised fight. We recruit all standards for red or blue (since we also run JG26)
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=334267&postcount=5

[hc_wolf]

Hi, I understand where u are coming from, and thanks for your view.
I am now an ATAG MEMBER. was HC_wolf. now ATAG_Wolf.

I can tell u that in channel command mission the flack is totally re-done. The look, feel, the coverage In England and france, the accuracy etc... Everything is from scratch and looks different from current missions online.

It is not wise to fly around near flak on either side of the channel. It is not crazy or stupidly accurate, it is just well balanced. You will see very soon.

I just love the visual spectacle more then anything.

[ATAG_Deacon]

You will see very soon.

I just love the visual spectacle more then anything.

Tease...:-P

[AbortedMan]

Just wanted to comment on Farber's post...

Most Red's probably hide around base defenses because most Blue's can do the same and hide in their ability to climb...with the current state of the FMs there's not much a Spit can do when met at Co-alt with a 109 but watch it go vertical and rocket up another 5000ft upon contact. Even when the Spit has the altitude advantage, a 109 can easily overtake them if the Spit pilot isn't careful or skilled enough to be aware of the situation.

Spits have to work 10x harder to get to a proper altitude that a 109 can reach with relative ease...this leads to most solo pilots (the majority of the server at most times) not dedicating the couple minutes it takes to get to 22k ft and just taking refuge in the lower populated airbase areas, or they've probably attempted the climb, made contact with 109, then watched it zoom up even then and got frustrated.

Cause and effect. Players are going to "game the game" unless encouraged to do otherwise. I'm hoping Wolf's new mission will alleviate this base-babysitting/base vulching mentality, and we can finally put the "Battle of Hawkinge" mission behind us.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Just wanted to comment on Farber's post...

Most Red's probably hide around base defenses because most Blue's can do the same and hide in their ability to climb...with the current state of the FMs there's not much a Spit can do when met at Co-alt with a 109 but watch it go vertical and rocket up another 5000ft upon contact. Even when the Spit has the altitude advantage, a 109 can easily overtake them if the Spit pilot isn't careful or skilled enough to be aware of the situation.

Spits have to work 10x harder to get to a proper altitude that a 109 can reach with relative ease...this leads to most solo pilots (the majority of the server at most times) not dedicating the couple minutes it takes to get to 22k ft and just taking refuge in the lower populated airbase areas, or they've probably attempted the climb, made contact with 109, then watched it zoom up even then and got frustrated.

Cause and effect. Players are going to "game the game" unless encouraged to do otherwise. I'm hoping Wolf's new mission will alleviate this base-babysitting/base vulching mentality, and we can finally put the "Battle of Hawkinge" mission behind us.

I disagree. The battle of hawkinge as you put it, is because most reds, not all, spawn at the front line bases. That makes easy pickings for a cannon equipped 109 hovering above. The reason this accumulates and turns into the hawkinge show is because more reds spawn in at hawkinge to try to get the low flying 109 that was already there because of the decision of the red pilot to spawn at hawkinge in the 1st place. People's bad decisions shouldn't be blamed on mission design. Every single red pilot could take off and get to 20K without ever a thought of a 109 in the vicinity during the entire climb if they really wanted to. There's more than enough airfields spread out all over England to do just that.

The same can be applied for the 109 fields. I generally take off quite a bit inland so by the time I reach the coast of France I'm already at 4-5km at altitude. Actually most of the 109's I fly with on coms generally take off inland as well.

I do agree that the FMs are not the greatest, but at altitude, real altitude, the spit performs much better than it does on the deck, where as the 109 starts performing a lot worse. The higher the engagement the more even (not saying it's even) the better for a spitfire.

Altitude also takes flak/AAA completely out of the picture. So my suggestion is to simply not spawn anywhere near the front lines. When everyone on red figures this out, there won't be anyone at hawkinge for the blues to shoot at.

[JTDawg]

I disagree. The battle of hawkinge as you put it, is because most reds, not all, spawn at the front line bases. That makes easy pickings for a cannon equipped 109 hovering above. The reason this accumulates and turns into the hawkinge show is because more reds spawn in at hawkinge to try to get the low flying 109 that was already there because of the decision of the red pilot to spawn at hawkinge in the 1st place. People's bad decisions shouldn't be blamed on mission design. Every single red pilot could take off and get to 20K without ever a thought of a 109 in the vicinity during the entire climb if they really wanted to. There's more than enough airfields spread out all over England to do just that.

The same can be applied for the 109 fields. I generally take off quite a bit inland so by the time I reach the coast of France I'm already at 4-5km at altitude. Actually most of the 109's I fly with on coms generally take off inland as well.

I do agree that the FMs are not the greatest, but at altitude, real altitude, the spit performs much better than it does on the deck, where as the 109 starts performing a lot worse. The higher the engagement the more even (not saying it's even) the better for a spitfire.

Altitude also takes flak/AAA completely out of the picture. So my suggestion is to simply not spawn anywhere near the front lines. When everyone on red figures this out, there won't be anyone at hawkinge for the blues to shoot at.

+1 I have really been enjoying the high level flying with the new maps , The 71st squad an others we fly with go high !! ( even at 20,000 seems low ,them bad guys ) It is great fun to see a large bomber formation come into view. (then when you can make them out we start counting 109s above them ) Then ts erupts with the number 4 5 6 I SEE 6 (Was doggles an his crew i believe ) Then the jockying for position ( we should have been 22,000) Any way , then it starts (bombers already forgotten about ) Then the call out HE IS ROLLING DOWN ON ME !!!! AND I'M ON HIM HE MISSED ME . And the dance has begun ( i'm thinking i wonder if AN squad is on) While a 109 is trying to hammer head me !! Again, but last pass i got hits on him. ( wow those 88mm cannon rounds almost got me ) It's my story! After what seemed to be for ever. The Dance is almost over, sixes being cleared , Guys saying i;m all red .And many a good pilots being lost from both sides. We land respawn (those that died giggle giggle ) Then it's time to do it again , to repeat the whole thing again (this time at 24,000) Them bad guys!! As we climb up laughing and joking about the carnage ,We just incountered!!! Plain fun :mrgreen: It just puts a big smile on your face when you get your special kill!!!! ( normally the guy that pked you) YEAH!! Any who , THANKS ATAG!! BIG SALUTE!! Dawg PS I like lots of flak hell you can even add some to my plane!! (those bad guys lol)

[Robo.]

Yeah 20k seems to be not enough lately. I like it. Good show yesterday.

[David198502]

a few days ago, i think there was a new mission on atag...we spotted a big formation(bigger than normally seen on atag) of german bombers north of manston at +5000meters.i have not seen this before on atag.
we headed towards them and saw a group of spits, it was "our" guys from ACG who attacked the bombers.so we engaged and had a really good fight at 5000meters.
i really like those "high" altitude fights.there it seems to be way more even, and suddenly skill is demanded in a 109.

btw, has anybody now after one and a half years after the release, thought about a mission with bombers heading towards london???
i mean, i have a really weak machine, but have no problem whatsoever to fly on rooftop level above london.i would really like to escort bombers to different locations then the usual ones....the "atag zone" gets really boring now.

[Skoshi Tiger]

a few days ago, i think there was a new mission on atag...we spotted a big formation(bigger than normally seen on atag) of german bombers north of manston at +5000meters.i have not seen this before on atag.
we headed towards them and saw a group of spits, it was "our" guys from ACG who attacked the bombers.so we engaged and had a really good fight at 5000meters.
i really like those "high" altitude fights.there it seems to be way more even, and suddenly skill is demanded in a 109.

btw, has anybody now after one and a half years after the release, thought about a mission with bombers heading towards london???
i mean, i have a really weak machine, but have no problem whatsoever to fly on rooftop level above london.i would really like to escort bombers to different locations then the usual ones....the "atag zone" gets really boring now.

German bombers running the gauntlet with multiple waves of RAF fighters trrying to stop them would be quite cool.

So If you intercepted from your base at Manston and had to bail, would you be able to take off from Eastchurch and be able to get enough height to have a second go at them? Croyden for the third go? Hmmm! could we get the height?

[ATAG_Doc]

I can't remember when I was hit by AA in a 109. I always loiter over the island because that's where the action is all the time.

[FFCW_Urizen]

Spitfire´s able to make 160mph/3000fpm at certain altitudes, combine that with a course heading the same way as the bombers and there you go, lunchtime, yummy, tastee 88s :twisted: .

[ATAG_Colander]

I can't remember when I was hit by AA in a 109. I always loiter over the island because that's where the action is all the time.

I got hit 2 out of 2 last night.
First at around 1500 m @ 500kph, from untouched to bam! left wing gone.
Second at around 2000 m @350 kph, from untouched to bam! PK.

Both times bofors.

[AbortedMan]

I disagree. The battle of hawkinge as you put it, is because most reds, not all, spawn at the front line bases. That makes easy pickings for a cannon equipped 109 hovering above. The reason this accumulates and turns into the hawkinge show is because more reds spawn in at hawkinge to try to get the low flying 109 that was already there because of the decision of the red pilot to spawn at hawkinge in the 1st place. People's bad decisions shouldn't be blamed on mission design. Every single red pilot could take off and get to 20K without ever a thought of a 109 in the vicinity during the entire climb if they really wanted to. There's more than enough airfields spread out all over England to do just that.

The same can be applied for the 109 fields. I generally take off quite a bit inland so by the time I reach the coast of France I'm already at 4-5km at altitude. Actually most of the 109's I fly with on coms generally take off inland as well.

I do agree that the FMs are not the greatest, but at altitude, real altitude, the spit performs much better than it does on the deck, where as the 109 starts performing a lot worse. The higher the engagement the more even (not saying it's even) the better for a spitfire.

Altitude also takes flak/AAA completely out of the picture. So my suggestion is to simply not spawn anywhere near the front lines. When everyone on red figures this out, there won't be anyone at hawkinge for the blues to shoot at.

Actually, you're not disagreeing with me at all...just talking about something different in half of your post. I agree with what you're saying completely here. Reds love throwing their aircraft into the meat grinder for some reason despite constant efforts to rally or strategize the mindless uncollectiveness. I am not one of those, mind you...10k ft is my MINIMUM engagement/first contact altitude in any sortie.

The battle of Hawkinge...I'm not saying this is bad mission design by common definition, but it's a condition that hasn't been addressed effectively, so affords some sort of fault to the mission design simply because it's a misallocation of resources and motivation to get those "meat-grinder" pilots away from the deathmatch areas and start engaging in a proper flight SIMULATOR fashion. I understand what the mission designer was trying to accomplish, but that's not what is happening. It's like trying to make a irrigation ditch with the intentions of routing water around the Eastern side of your house, implementing your planned dig route, then when the water escapes and flows on the Western side of your house you just stare at it and say, "Well, this isn't what's SUPPOSED to happen."...that isn't going to fix the issue. We all know the problem, now the next step is to find the solution. The players are "gaming the game", so now the mission builders need to "game the game" right back to balance it out.

Example, there's not a lot, well...enough motivation and emphasis right now on objectives for the common non-regular player, whether that be to go bomb something (which is not on the common Red pilot's mind/agenda...we only have one buggy bomber), escort AI bombers (no real reason to other than hopes to find other enemy fighters, possibly exacerbating the air-quake mentality issue) defend a grid/building from bombers, etc. If there was a constant stream of AI bombers attacking each Army's *vital, round winning objectives* and actually had purpose there would be constant pressure to take out bomber formations and get pilots off the airfields and onto escorting/intercept missions. As I see it right now, AI bombers are fairly immaterial and just serve as target practice and/or a stage for a high altitude contact scenario with their escorts, if applicable, and go to the wayside never to be seen again after the engagement.

This is a matter of a mission designer providing motivation to do the fun, interactive and balanced activities this simulator has to offer (bombing runs, escorts, interception, recon), meanwhile discouraging the less desirable, unfair, unbalanced activities (vulching, base raping, unrealistic altitude engagements, lone wolfing, "gaming the game"). Stuff like Wolf's Channel Command seems promising with missions on demand, limited aircraft supply (this will be a big one, as it will discourage unrealistic/unsportmanlike bailing out/crashing to skip the flight home), random AI fighter engagements, etc.

Bliss you seem to turn a blind eye to the current mission's faults and have repeatedly cited the pilots as the issue (did you make it yourself or something?), while I don't disagree with you, the pilot's actions are not something that is going to change because of forum posts. Said pilot's actions are a constant. We cannot force or change them, but the mission parameters in-game can. It can be something complicated like an aircraft supply system, or a simple on-screen notification of a formation of bomber's location heading toward a critical mission objective...Or ailerons falling off of an aircraft upon spawn because you don't want to deal with that aircraft in the sky, you big blue babies ;).

[Warhound]

All i'm going to say about it is that you can do everything you just suggested as missionmaker, and those players you mentioned will still do exactly what they are doing now.
That is play low level airquake, occasionally intercept a bomber they run into and in general not care about the mission at all. Once the plane(s) they prefer are depleted they will complain a bit and then disconnect.

Now you can argue those players aren't wanted anyway..but seeing as they make up half or more of the players online at times, I'd prefer to have them present.
Just consider them as new pilots (and thus easy targets) and try to convert a few into missionfocused pilots.
Help with their questions, encourage them to hop on teamspeak and wing up. With luck a few will eventually join TS, see the light and turn into great wingmen and even fligthleaders.

Afterall I think most of us started as random players just wanting to fly and shoot at something.
And even many IL-2 vets rarely did anything but play on servers/coops with 3rd person and icons enabled..so it's a big transition for many to play on full switch servers.

[ATAG_Doc]

Everything you mentioned is being implemented. How is that for an answer? :) feel better now? :mad:

[AbortedMan]

Everything you mentioned is being implemented. How is that for an answer? :) feel better now? :mad:

Not complaining or mad about it in my post, just discussing, disseminating, and educating.

One day I hope we can live in an internet that is devoid of sarcastic and ill-mannered undertones and/or the assumptions of such undertones as a default.

[ATAG_Doc]

+1

Just saying m8 its coming. Seems everyone hates the blue people. Lol

[AbortedMan]

+1

Just saying m8 its coming. Seems everyone hates the blue people. Lol

Heh, it's because you're always sticking your yellow noses up our ***.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Seems everyone hates the blue people. Lol

Nooooooo. :grin:

[AbortedMan]

I disagree. The battle of hawkinge as you put it, is because most reds, not all, spawn at the front line bases. That makes easy pickings for a cannon equipped 109 hovering above. The reason this accumulates and turns into the hawkinge show is because more reds spawn in at hawkinge to try to get the low flying 109 that was already there because of the decision of the red pilot to spawn at hawkinge in the 1st place. People's bad decisions shouldn't be blamed on mission design. Every single red pilot could take off and get to 20K without ever a thought of a 109 in the vicinity during the entire climb if they really wanted to. There's more than enough airfields spread out all over England to do just that.

The same can be applied for the 109 fields. I generally take off quite a bit inland so by the time I reach the coast of France I'm already at 4-5km at altitude. Actually most of the 109's I fly with on coms generally take off inland as well.

I do agree that the FMs are not the greatest, but at altitude, real altitude, the spit performs much better than it does on the deck, where as the 109 starts performing a lot worse. The higher the engagement the more even (not saying it's even) the better for a spitfire.

Altitude also takes flak/AAA completely out of the picture. So my suggestion is to simply not spawn anywhere near the front lines. When everyone on red figures this out, there won't be anyone at hawkinge for the blues to shoot at.

Also, the "easy pickings" attraction of the front lines base would be nullified if there were more severe consequences for entering that airspace, like a guaranteed 15 sec max survivability chance due to AA damage, no fly zone. This would force the fight at least off shore a bit, which in turn would open up the possibility for the fight to move farther out and into the rest of the map. If Red or Blue still used AA as a safe zone to hide in, that would leave the rest of the objectives completely unguarded to bomb/capture/whatever for the opposing team, so the overall mission feel would inherit a "if you hide you lose, be pro-active you win" sense which we need, imo.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

If anyone out there has the C# skills to script bad ass missions we all would love to enjoy their work!

Be warned:!:

The pay is 0 and invariable someone with little or no experience in mission building will question your effort.

[5./JG27.Farber]

The pay is 0 and invariable someone with little or no experience in mission building will question your effort.

So true.

S! Borris. :-P

[AbortedMan]

The pay is 0 and invariable someone with little or no experience in mission building will question your effort.

Nice. I see what you did there.

I'm truly lovin' this warm reception to potentially constructive and critical debate.

I'mma just start keeping my opinions to myself and let you ATAG guys do your thing...Everyone's got opinions, who needs another...on a forum no less.

What was I thinking? Silly me.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Nice. I see what you did there.

I'm truly lovin' this warm reception to potentially constructive and critical debate.

I'mma just start keeping my opinions to myself and let you ATAG guys do your thing...Everyone's got opinions, who needs another...on a forum no less.

What was I thinking? Silly me.

Dont be silly AbortedMan,

We all have been hashing the very same things you bring up for a year.

Im sure if you join us on coms and ask the horse you will get what it takes to make a mission and why all the cool stuff isnt all there yet.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Actually, you're not disagreeing with me at all...just talking about something different in half of your post. I agree with what you're saying completely here. Reds love throwing their aircraft into the meat grinder for some reason despite constant efforts to rally or strategize the mindless uncollectiveness. I am not one of those, mind you...10k ft is my MINIMUM engagement/first contact altitude in any sortie.

The battle of Hawkinge...I'm not saying this is bad mission design by common definition, but it's a condition that hasn't been addressed effectively, so affords some sort of fault to the mission design simply because it's a misallocation of resources and motivation to get those "meat-grinder" pilots away from the deathmatch areas and start engaging in a proper flight SIMULATOR fashion. I understand what the mission designer was trying to accomplish, but that's not what is happening. It's like trying to make a irrigation ditch with the intentions of routing water around the Eastern side of your house, implementing your planned dig route, then when the water escapes and flows on the Western side of your house you just stare at it and say, "Well, this isn't what's SUPPOSED to happen."...that isn't going to fix the issue. We all know the problem, now the next step is to find the solution. The players are "gaming the game", so now the mission builders need to "game the game" right back to balance it out.

Example, there's not a lot, well...enough motivation and emphasis right now on objectives for the common non-regular player, whether that be to go bomb something (which is not on the common Red pilot's mind/agenda...we only have one buggy bomber), escort AI bombers (no real reason to other than hopes to find other enemy fighters, possibly exacerbating the air-quake mentality issue) defend a grid/building from bombers, etc. If there was a constant stream of AI bombers attacking each Army's *vital, round winning objectives* and actually had purpose there would be constant pressure to take out bomber formations and get pilots off the airfields and onto escorting/intercept missions. As I see it right now, AI bombers are fairly immaterial and just serve as target practice and/or a stage for a high altitude contact scenario with their escorts, if applicable, and go to the wayside never to be seen again after the engagement.

This is a matter of a mission designer providing motivation to do the fun, interactive and balanced activities this simulator has to offer (bombing runs, escorts, interception, recon), meanwhile discouraging the less desirable, unfair, unbalanced activities (vulching, base raping, unrealistic altitude engagements, lone wolfing, "gaming the game"). Stuff like Wolf's Channel Command seems promising with missions on demand, limited aircraft supply (this will be a big one, as it will discourage unrealistic/unsportmanlike bailing out/crashing to skip the flight home), random AI fighter engagements, etc.

Bliss you seem to turn a blind eye to the current mission's faults and have repeatedly cited the pilots as the issue (did you make it yourself or something?), while I don't disagree with you, the pilot's actions are not something that is going to change because of forum posts. Said pilot's actions are a constant. We cannot force or change them, but the mission parameters in-game can. It can be something complicated like an aircraft supply system, or a simple on-screen notification of a formation of bomber's location heading toward a critical mission objective...Or ailerons falling off of an aircraft upon spawn because you don't want to deal with that aircraft in the sky, you big blue babies ;).

See, you're saying that people spawning at Hawkinge is still a problem, that low flying combat is a problem. Basically what you are saying is the mission should tell people how they should fly. Again, I completely disagree. If we were running some sort of hosted event with signups and everyone knew the exact objectives with the intent of the whole event completing them, had a tactical plan, etc., then I would expect people that signed up to fly a particular way that was intended.

But we are not running an event. We are a public server. The last thing I will ever do is force someone to fly a certain way. One of the main reasons we started the server is because we were sick and tired of playing on servers that had ridiculous rules. If someone wants to spawn at hawkinge and die repeatedly, so be it. If someone on blue wants to dive their Ju88 right into a red airfield, have fun. I'm never going to tell other people how to fly and I'm sure as hell never gonna penalize someone for how they want to fly. Team killing is a different story obviously, but this isn't about that.



Also, the "easy pickings" attraction of the front lines base would be nullified if there were more severe consequences for entering that airspace, like a guaranteed 15 sec max survivability chance due to AA damage, no fly zone. This would force the fight at least off shore a bit, which in turn would open up the possibility for the fight to move farther out and into the rest of the map. If Red or Blue still used AA as a safe zone to hide in, that would leave the rest of the objectives completely unguarded to bomb/capture/whatever for the opposing team, so the overall mission feel would inherit a "if you hide you lose, be pro-active you win" sense which we need, imo.

As I stated above, I will never penalize someone for how they want to fly. When I'm on red, I enjoy spawning at hawkinge and getting a quick fix. I also enjoy spawning further inland and doing a proper high altitude flight.
But the last thing I'm going to do is penalize people for not flying a certain way. Every single person that joins the server should have every right to do w/e they want (sight seeing in a Tiger Moth, landing a JU88 at london, or w/e minus team killing) without having to hear a rash of crap about it. They paid for the game just like I did and I'm not about to tell them how they should play it.

I'm sorry you seem to think all your desires should be implemented, but when it comes to forcing or penalizing players for their styles of playing the game, I will never agree with you. The missions we run are designed that way. So again, there's no fault in the mission at all. That's how our server is run and will always be run, albeit some special event. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's who we are.

[AbortedMan]

Dont be silly AbortedMan,

We all have been hashing the very same things you bring up for a year.

Im sure if you join us on coms and ask the horse you will get what it takes to make a mission and why all the cool stuff isnt all there yet.

Not talking about "cool stuff" talking about gameplay stuff. Fixes for base raping/vulching (more anti-air), a purpose to AI bombers (making them mission essential), motivation to not constantly hover around Hawkinge.

But of course, you guys are intelligent and if there was a fix, it would have been done by now, no doubt. So I'm essentially bored at work and beating a dead horse by stating the (hopefully) obvious. By my logic I was thinking the guy that made the current mission can obviously create missions, but maybe he hasn't thought of what I pointed out in my post. I wouldn't be much of a successful person in life if I just assumed and never took action to ask, or point out what seems to be important information. Maybe it helped and informed someone, maybe it didn't...it kept me awake at my desk though.

Either way I sense some mis-directed forum hostility from some of you ATAG guys. Put down your dukes, I'm not berating, insulting, calling out, or hurting anyone. I come in peace and I'm doing what I can to reach the common goal. It may not be C++ programming, but ideas are ideas and can be invaluable to an undertaking such as this.

[AbortedMan]

See, you're saying that people spawning at Hawkinge is still a problem, that low flying combat is a problem. Basically what you are saying is the mission should tell people how they should fly. Again, I completely disagree. If we were running some sort of hosted event with signups and everyone knew the exact objectives with the intent of the whole event completing them, had a tactical plan, etc., then I would expect people that signed up to fly a particular way that was intended.

But we are not running an event. We are a public server. The last thing I will ever do is force someone to fly a certain way. One of the main reasons we started the server is because we were sick and tired of playing on servers that had ridiculous rules. If someone wants to spawn at hawkinge and die repeatedly, so be it. If someone on blue wants to dive their Ju88 right into a red airfield, have fun. I'm never going to tell other people how to fly and I'm sure as hell never gonna penalize someone for how they want to fly. Team killing is a different story obviously, but this isn't about that.





As I stated above, I will never penalize someone for how they want to fly. When I'm on red, I enjoy spawning at hawkinge and getting a quick fix. I also enjoy spawning further inland and doing a proper high altitude flight.
But the last thing I'm going to do is penalize people for not flying a certain way. Every single person that joins the server should have every right to do w/e they want (sight seeing in a Tiger Moth, landing a JU88 at london, or w/e minus team killing) without having to hear a rash of crap about it. They paid for the game just like I did and I'm not about to tell them how they should play it.

I'm sorry you seem to think all your desires should be implemented, but when it comes to forcing or penalizing players for their styles of playing the game, I will never agree with you. The missions we run are designed that way. So again, there's no fault in the mission at all. That's how our server is run and will always be run, albeit some special event. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's who we are.

Haha, no one is talking about penalizing...unless you mean losing a round counts as penalizing because you didn't play the mission to its objectives, which makes very little sense. This is a multiplayer game, with set parameters (rules, if you will) for winning as per the objectives/rounds/team-based structure. By your logic, the server should be on free flight with no mission loaded at all...and that's not speaking in hyperbole, I'm being literal.

I'm not the only one frustrated about the issue. A few pages back there's a couple other people citing gameplay changes. So what's ATAG's goal with this server? Free flight do-what-you-want or realistic BoB mission style sorties? Declare it now so I can stop rambling about mission suggestions.