Freetrack interface use in IL-2:CoD

[Wolf_Rider]

are you telling me I'm a fascist? elaborate please

you finished all the arguments so now you begin to offend people or what?



I've been getting offended all the way through, sport and from the start... what am I to think?

[albx]

I've been getting offended all the way through, sport and from the start... what am I to think?

that probably you exceeded your daily posts so you should stop writing idiocies?

[Wolf_Rider]

my point made...

if the shirt fits, albx...

[albx]

my point made...

if the shirt fits, albx...

yeah... fits very well, you ironed it very good... (no more TIR arguments? are you done?)

[Wolf_Rider]

that would depend on what else comes in... are you okay with that??

[albx]

you are bringing me in an unexplored land... should i begin to offend you? nah... you don't need my words because almost 80% of users that answer your posts thinks what exactly you are... they told you so many times :D

P.S.
go to bed it's late there, you have to get up early to go to school

[julian265]

I've been getting offended all the way through, sport and from the start... what am I to think?

You've been copping #### all the way through because of your style of "discussion".

For example, I would have thought an adult would be capable of understanding an analogy, rather than taking it as a literal (and thus irrelevant) point.

[swiss]

why do we have two threads about the same topic?
Yes, they started with different ones, but now they pretty much merged.
Please let one die. thx.

[Wolf_Rider]

You've been copping #### all the way through because of your style of "discussion".

For example, I would have thought an adult would be capable of understanding an analogy, rather than taking it as a literal (and thus irrelevant) point.



I'm sorry your (collective) points and arguments just aren't holding water... that's why you (collective) are so upset

[vicinity]

The reason you believe "our" points aren't holding any water is because:

1. You refuse to even look at them objectively.
2. You ignore points to which you have no counter arguement.
3. You can't answer simple questions when asked directly.
4. You fail to understand the points some people are making eg. the joystick analogy.
5. You state your opinion as fact and when someone disagrees, you then:
6. You deflect by telling people to read through the thread because their point has already been addressed (when it hasn't).
7. You construct posts which look like they are replies but actually aren't eg. by saying things like "see point 1" when point 1 doesn't even address the issue.
8. When someone tells you you're not addressing the point you say stuff like "what has that got to do with the thread?" trying to make it look like they are somehow attacking you.
9. You repeat the same arguments again and again because you believe your opinion is fact.
10. You also accuse people of personal attacks against you and then go on to call others fasists.

It's kind of hard to have a discussion with someone like that.

Now, you'll probably read this post and see it as some kind of attack against you but it really isn't, this is merely what I have witnessed from reading through these threads - when I said ealier "you clearly can't be reasoned with" I meant just that, you have a clear bias on this subject and no amount of reasonable discussion will change that so there really is no point continuing in this debate. At this point noone is going to change the others 'side' so why go on any further?

[Wolf_Rider]

you may have missed the consensus reached early in the piece?

[SEE]

This argument is a bit like two pilots in a turning battle and neither can get the angle.......one has to break.

I will post this in both threads as they are essentially the same and, as a user of both systems, have been the 'devils advocate' for too long. So both sets of protagonists read the following! I added the RED text to link the legal position to version.

Text strings bearing explicit notice of "EyeControl Technologies" copyright (former name of NaturalPoint, Inc.) can be found within previous versions of the library in question. However, the strings have been encrypted in recent versions of the library to hide them. The continued presence of the strings can be verified by connecting to the interface and reading them.

The creators of FreeTrack did not deny copyright infringement at this time.

During early releases FreeTrack V1 the source for their TrackIR Enhanced DLL was publicly viewable. The copyrighted strings were clearly visible in the file NPClient_h.pas. Since that time, the developers have removed public access to the TrackIR Enhanced DLL in their source control system , while the rest of their source remains open to the public.

[Wolf_Rider]

see response - other thread

[swiss]

NaturalPoint statement from their forum:


We are glad to see FreeTrack recognizing the value of head tracking in games and simulations as pioneered by our TrackIR product. We hope FreeTrack also recognizes the tremendous effort and investment NaturalPoint has and continues to make in getting titles to support head tracking and promoting it within the community. We encourage FreeTrack to undertake their own such efforts instead of relying upon the work of NaturalPoint.

[SEE]

As an owner of both systems I am free to use either but consider FT to have many advantages over my TrackIR.

I have full ownership rights over my hardware in tems of repair, upgrade and renewal?

The FT software is better (IMO) with added functionality not available in TrackIR.

The TrackIR clip is poor in terms of durability and construction, restricted to one side. If one LED fails the entire Clip has to be renewed.

There is no advantage in either regards performance with my set up. That may differ for others.

I have no interest in any legal disputes, or the opinions of others, whilst I m legally entitled to use FTv2.2 it will remain my first choice every time.

No support in CoD? I will use TrackIR.

[MadBlaster]

This argument is a bit like two pilots in a turning battle and neither can get the angle.......one has to break.

I will post this in both threads as they are essentially the same and, as a user of both systems, have been the 'devils advocate' for too long. So both sets of protagonists read the following! I added the RED text to link the legal position to version.

Text strings bearing explicit notice of "EyeControl Technologies" copyright (former name of NaturalPoint, Inc.) can be found within previous versions of the library in question. However, the strings have been encrypted in recent versions of the library to hide them. The continued presence of the strings can be verified by connecting to the interface and reading them.

The creators of FreeTrack did not deny copyright infringement at this time.

During early releases FreeTrack V1 the source for their TrackIR Enhanced DLL was publicly viewable. The copyrighted strings were clearly visible in the file NPClient_h.pas. Since that time, the developers have removed public access to the TrackIR Enhanced DLL in their source control system , while the rest of their source remains open to the public.

See reponse, other thread. Also, I agree with swiss. One thread only please. This is a poll thread.

[Sauf]

See reponse, other thread. Also, I agree with swiss. One thread only please. This is a poll thread.


OMG! They finally agree on something!

[Wolf_Rider]

that's frightening :s

[Wolf_Rider]

.

As an owner of both systems I am free to use either but consider FT to have many advantages over my TrackIR.

I have full ownership rights over my hardware in tems of repair, upgrade and renewal?

I have no interest in any legal disputes, or the opinions of others, whilst I m legally entitled to use FTv2.2 it will remain my first choice every time.

No support in CoD? I will use TrackIR.




and in the same vein of thought... NP has every right to ensure you don't do it through their software.

[LoBiSoMeM]

No support in CoD? I will use TrackIR.

I'll use some REAL "hack" way to use Freetrack. But just if 1C and NP wants. If they provide FreeTrackClient.dll route, I'll use it.

Without a trace of "moral" or "legal" concern. W-R can drop dead and talk a lot of crap. I'll use my hardware and my free software to provide me 6DoF TH data, if some crap hardware company and some game company don't want to give suport to my solution own interface, I'll find a way to use some that works.

And just a complete idiot can think it's either "ilegal" or "imoral". NP will never dictate the way I'll generate my 6DoF HT, sorry NP, drop dead!

Bye! Power to the people! LOL!

[norulz]

+1 ;)

[Wolf_Rider]

I'll use some REAL "hack" way to use Freetrack. But just if 1C and NP wants. If they provide FreeTrackClient.dll route, I'll use it.

Without a trace of "moral" or "legal" concern. W-R can drop dead and talk a lot of crap. I'll use my hardware and my free software to provide me 6DoF TH data, if some crap hardware company and some game company don't want to give suport to my solution own interface, I'll find a way to use some that works.

And just a complete idiot can think it's either "ilegal" or "imoral". NP will never dictate the way I'll generate my 6DoF HT, sorry NP, drop dead!

Bye! Power to the people! LOL!



Socialism will never survive without Capitalism, Lobi and Animal Farm, is more than a cartoon.

[norulz]

Capitalism will never survive...

[SEE]

Do you guys go on line? Someone could set up a private slot and watch the caps v the Socy's or NP brigade v FT Brigade. Those with both cannot take part (e.g. Moi!)- have to park-up and watch the action instead! :grin:

[Wolf_Rider]

what would be the point?
one would be running hacks and the other wouldn't ;)

[SEE]

Oh myGod!....damned FT must hack the weapons and FM too, I didn't know that....I want to change my vote!!

[Wolf_Rider]

Are you sure you are understanding the topic at hand? (At times, I'm not that sure you are... )

[SEE]

Yeah, your right W-R, I picked up on the last few thread topics and noticed the following comments, some nice ones by you too......sort of mix of politics and insults.......fight it out in the air I say!

This guy is pathetic...

When you can be civil and behave yourself, I'll take you off ignore again

how's yer black shirt? all nicely starched and ironed? if the shirt fits,

Socialism will never survive without Capitalism, Lobi and Animal Farm, is more than a cartoon.

[Wolf_Rider]

So, I guess that means you have nothing of worth to contribute to the thread, See?

[LoBiSoMeM]

So, I guess that means you have nothing of worth to contribute to the thread, See?

He contribute more than you. You just write a lot of crap.

[Wolf_Rider]

I'm sorry if my view doesn't appease your view, LoBi... you're just going to have to learn to live with that.

[LoBiSoMeM]

I'm sorry if my view doesn't appease your view, LoBi... you're just going to have to learn to live with that.

You don't even have a view. How Freetrack works in ArmAII?

[Wolf_Rider]

How Freetrack works in ArmAII?




the question at hand....

[LoBiSoMeM]

the question at hand....

I said how I believe it works, but you keep the "hidden hack" tone... And now? Any insight or just the usual crap?

:)

[Strike]

Why not just buy TIR 5?? It's the price of two PC games and will let you use it in nearly every flightsim there is + games like ARMA II and certain driving games/sims too.

I have had TIR 3, 4 and now 5 and I must say I am overall very very pleased with it. Definately worth the money. Also, it's very accurate and responsive, and with the track-clip pro with the IR diodes it just sticks to your headset and you can get rid of that silly cap :p

The only downside I can possibly think of with the TIR is that it doesn't like bright light sources, other IR devices or direct sunlight. Myself, I sit with my PC against the West so that in the afternoon I can get some direct sunlight in here from my 9 o Clock position. Even though, the biggest problem is being blinded by the sunlight myself, the Track IR rarely looses track :)

I paid a total of just under 200$ total to get it shipped to Norway, and it arrived within a week :)

[LoBiSoMeM]

Why not just buy TIR 5?? It's the price of two PC games and will let you use it in nearly every flightsim there is + games like ARMA II and certain driving games/sims too.

I have had TIR 3, 4 and now 5 and I must say I am overall very very pleased with it. Definately worth the money. Also, it's very accurate and responsive, and with the track-clip pro with the IR diodes it just sticks to your headset and you can get rid of that silly cap :p

The only downside I can possibly think of with the TIR is that it doesn't like bright light sources, other IR devices or direct sunlight. Myself, I sit with my PC against the West so that in the afternoon I can get some direct sunlight in here from my 9 o Clock position. Even though, the biggest problem is being blinded by the sunlight myself, the Track IR rarely looses track :)

I paid a total of just under 200$ total to get it shipped to Norway, and it arrived within a week :)

Because I don't want.

Why not just you jump in front of a train? I believe it's because you don't want to do that... :)

[albx]

Because I don't want.

Why not just you jump in front of a train? I believe it's because you don't want to do that... :)

LOLLLLL :cool:

[Wolf_Rider]

I don't belive jumping in front of a train has anything whatsoever to do with headtracking, and basicaly was just a really silly thing to say.

[Strike]

I don't belive jumping in front of a train has anything whatsoever to do with headtracking, and basicaly was just a really silly thing to say.

I'm going to +1 that one. And pose the statement : Irrelevance?

[LoBiSoMeM]

I don't belive jumping in front of a train has anything whatsoever to do with headtracking, and basicaly was just a really silly thing to say.

Have EVERYTHING with headtracking, because is about OPTIONS!

If you two don't understand that, sorry. I like to have OPTION in my life, FREE CHOICES...

I don't want to buy a TiR. And someone maybe don't want to jump in front of a train. Options, choices...

And the "Strike" guy voted NO for support for FT. They don't understand that people MAYBE can make their own choices... I'm not surprised...

[Wolf_Rider]

mentioned many times Lobi... your poll was poorly worded and you were pegged as using it only to prove your position.

[LoBiSoMeM]

mentioned many times Lobi... your poll was poorly worded and you were pegged as using it only to prove your position.

Yes, it's "poorly worded", but we have 83% for FT use in IL-2:CoD, as usual...

I'm proving my position, loser!

[SEE]

So, I guess that means you have nothing of worth to contribute to the thread, See?

Sort of Wolfy, you don't mind me calling you 'Wolfy - (sort of nice and cuddly). There are only a handful of people that actually read it anymore, add the Mods and that number probably doubles - (poor guys having to read the same old stuff all the time)


I was thinking that we could refresh the thread with a 'HT in combat' systems appraisal.
Think of the benefits guys.......


1. It embraces IL1946 - Get in yer cockpit - outmaneouvre your opponent - Kill him!. (and embraces this this thread too, erm, O.K., not the first a last bits)

2. Give the thread a Break, and the Mods, and save server space (at least for one night).


3. An opportunity to use language that a Pilot in Combat used but not appropriate in a forum - e.g, "....take that up your ass you (expletives of choice cuz it will be a private slot)


We can set it up for CRT=2 ...that will sort the hackers out....



Now think of the adavantages, we could return back to the thread and discuss the systems in combat, tactics, strategies, etc, posts like ..........

"the only reason that Fokker Wolf Rider shot my ass to bits was my wing man was useless.,Jeez, how could he not see him, he had a custom Skin with FT HAck slapped on the side.......


or, you never Know, things like.......


" You were so lucky pal, I was leading and lagging you perfectly through your entire rolling scissors - the only reason I screwed up was because the IR leds taped to my baseball cap fell off!


And guess what,,,,,,,,,,it would be DAMNED MORE INTERESTING THAN THIS ENTIRE THREAD and more people would bloody read it!



BTW, Wolfy is Sqdrn leader BLue

OB1 (lobi....good for comms) Sqdrn Ldr Red

[Strike]

Have EVERYTHING with headtracking, because is about OPTIONS!

If you two don't understand that, sorry. I like to have OPTION in my life, FREE CHOICES...

I don't want to buy a TiR. And someone maybe don't want to jump in front of a train. Options, choices...

And the "Strike" guy voted NO for support for FT. They don't understand that people MAYBE can make their own choices... I'm not surprised...

Ok analyzing...

"Have EVERYTHING with headtracking, because is about OPTIONS!"

Say what now? What/who HAS* everything with headtracking??? and the reason is about OPTIONS!"? nothing here makes sense!

next sentance:

"If you two don't understand that, sorry. I like to have OPTION in my life, FREE CHOICES..."

You are right, I don't understand a word of you, apology accepted! You like options? Well so do I, FREE CHOICES! is a part of living in a democratic society! This isn't North Korea (poor guys are probably not getting CoD). On the free choices topic, I like to choose between Mars and Snickers, I won't however, accept a free chocolate from a stranger, would you eat that?

Okay, further on:

"I don't want to buy a TiR. And someone maybe don't want to jump in front of a train. Options, choices..."

You are comparing buying track IR to commiting suicide. I can understand why you don't want to buy a track IR then. You should go look at www.naturalpoint.com and read the terms and restrictions etc. There is nothing there saying that if you purchase this product, you have to kill yourself. I choose Track IR, I am alive. (And happy with the product!)

And finally:

"And the "Strike" guy voted NO for support for FT. They don't understand that people MAYBE can make their own choices... I'm not surprised."

You are right, I voted no because I believe that Naturalpoint needs people to buy their products so that they can continue to Cooperate with the simulator developers and "tailor" the 6DOF experience together. Freetrack (to my knowledge) is a free "hack" that tries to simulate the inputs of "Track IR" by using your average webcam. I believe that freetrack is not accurate enough to produce the 6DOF experience we get with TrackIR and so I see no reason for game developers to use their time to add support for freetrack! TrackIR works GREAT with games that support this, but as far as goes for freetrack, I think it is better that the freetrack guys write their own stuff for IL-2: CoD and take responsability to make it compatible, rather than putting the work on Oleg. Just my opinion..

[LoBiSoMeM]

You are right, I voted no because I believe that Naturalpoint needs people to buy their products so that they can continue to Cooperate with the simulator developers and "tailor" the 6DOF experience together. Freetrack (to my knowledge) is a free "hack" that tries to simulate the inputs of "Track IR" by using your average webcam. I believe that freetrack is not accurate enough to produce the 6DOF experience we get with TrackIR and so I see no reason for game developers to use their time to add support for freetrack! TrackIR works GREAT with games that support this, but as far as goes for freetrack, I think it is better that the freetrack guys write their own stuff for IL-2: CoD and take responsability to make it compatible, rather than putting the work on Oleg. Just my opinion..

I can see now that you are a complete ignorant about the subject. Why do you vote?

[Wolf_Rider]

I can see now that you are a complete ignorant about the subject. Why do you vote?



what? ... you don't want people to vote now?

[vicinity]

Freetrack (to my knowledge) is a free "hack" that tries to simulate the inputs of "Track IR" by using your average webcam. I believe that freetrack is not accurate enough to produce the 6DOF experience we get with TrackIR and so I see no reason for game developers to use their time to add support for freetrack! TrackIR works GREAT with games that support this, but as far as goes for freetrack, I think it is better that the freetrack guys write their own stuff for IL-2: CoD and take responsability to make it compatible, rather than putting the work on Oleg. Just my opinion..

All freetrack does with older games that don't have the encrypted NP api is input values into the game the same way as TrackIR. It does the exact same thing as a generic joystick the only difference being that the HT interface was orginally designed for TrackIR (as it was the only HT device at the time). This imo is not so much a hack but falls under fair usage as there is no other way to interface with the headtracking in these older games.

Even if you think the previous implementation was a 'hack' developers are free to use the freetrack api - This way is definately NOT a hack as if it were no other developer would have implemented it.

I would like to know if you have used freetrack? If you have you may have had bad experiences but with the right setup I can assure you that it is quite impressive and i've had no issues with the quality of the setup (using wii remote at 100fps and a clip I spent a good amount of time perfecting).

The devs do not need to spend any considerable amount of time to implement freetrack as headtracking is already set up, all they need to do is allow access to a few bits of data.

As said before in this thread, the guys that write freetrack don't have to do anything. Freetrack is available for anyone to implement it, everything is there and all it needs is for devs to accept data from it, the program does the rest. It is for us, the FT users or community to try and convince the developers that there is enough demand for it to be worth their time (and it really wouldn't take a lot of time).

[LoBiSoMeM]

what? ... you don't want people to vote now?

I want thet people try to learn about the subject BEFORE vote... But I see now that some of the less than 20% of people that vote against FT support know nothing about the subject.

Very intersting...

[Strike]

I would like to know if you have used freetrack? If you have you may have had bad experiences but with the right setup I can assure you that it is quite impressive and i've had no issues with the quality of the setup (using wii remote at 100fps and a clip I spent a good amount of time perfecting)

Okay, well I have to be honest I have no experience with freetrack, except by reading about how to set it all up and seeing a few youtube vids that, to me, prove it can be quite glitchy. If everybody uses as much time as you to perfect it I can understand you might enjoy it alot! But again, how much did that wiimote cost you? Here it's about half the price of track IR complete setup if you want the nun-chuck. However as interesting as it sounds, one might start speculating if you can use the Kinect camera soon, and drop the IR/reflective parts all together, seeing that microsoft is probably going to drop a SDK for Kinect in the near future. Imagine that, free tracking with ONLY a camera :) Oh and have you ever tried Track IR? One of its best pros have to be that it's very simple to set up :)


As said before in this thread, the guys that write freetrack don't have to do anything. Freetrack is available for anyone to implement it, everything is there and all it needs is for devs to accept data from it, the program does the rest. It is for us, the FT users or community to try and convince the developers that there is enough demand for it to be worth their time (and it really wouldn't take a lot of time).

Well, I'm sure Oleg and team are aware of the options to tracking devices, but seeing that the entire commercial world (to my knowledge) has opted for Track IR, I don't see why they would consider adding more options for the release! But I wouldn't worry if I were you guys, there has to be a way to just "emulate" track IR input for CoD, regardless of official support. If you ask me wether to add a better pilot animation, or better effect or a vital bugfix for the first patch, or add freetrack support, I think even freetrack users would opt for the game fixes.

[Wolf_Rider]

All freetrack does with older games that don't have the encrypted NP api is input values into the game the same way as TrackIR.

[QUOTE=vicinity;228669]


and that was the beginning of the problems... Ft made use of NP property


[QUOTE=vicinity;228669]

It does the exact same thing as a generic joystick




nooo, it doesn't. MS allows the use of "generic joysticks, much the same as mice and keyboards.




the only difference being that the HT interface was orginally designed for TrackIR (as it was the only HT device at the time).




the HT interface is NP property




This imo is not so much a hack but falls under fair usage as there is no other way to interface with the headtracking in these older games.




it is a hack and not "free use" (see Berne convention) "Free use" is allowed when the source isn't financially affected.




Even if you think the previous implementation was a 'hack' developers are free to use the freetrack api -




No problem there, except FT is a hack tool - which is the problem.




This way is definately NOT a hack as if it were no other developer would have implemented it.




so FT went the route of hacking NP




The devs do not need to spend any considerable amount of time to implement freetrack as headtracking is already set up, all they need to do is allow access to a few bits of data.

[/QUOTE}


Np is already set up, which FT makes use of


[QUOTE=vicinity;228669]

As said before in this thread, the guys that write freetrack don't have to do anything. Freetrack is available for anyone to implement it, everything is there and all it needs is for devs to accept data from it, the program does the rest. It is for us, the FT users or community to try and convince the developers that there is enough demand for it to be worth their time (and it really wouldn't take a lot of time).




Then there should be no problem with the FT developer/s to present a clean product, which can't hack into NP software, eh?

[vicinity]

Okay, well I have to be honest I have no experience with freetrack, except by reading about how to set it all up and seeing a few youtube vids that, to me, prove it can be quite glitchy. If everybody uses as much time as you to perfect it I can understand you might enjoy it alot! But again, how much did that wiimote cost you? Here it's about half the price of track IR complete setup if you want the nun-chuck. However as interesting as it sounds, one might start speculating if you can use the Kinect camera soon, and drop the IR/reflective parts all together, seeing that microsoft is probably going to drop a SDK for Kinect in the near future. Imagine that, free tracking with ONLY a camera :) Oh and have you ever tried Track IR? One of its best pros have to be that it's very simple to set up :).Well luckily enough I happened to already have a Wii so i didn't have to buy that sperately. Still if I were to compare the cost of my FT setup vs even TIR4 then the FT setup would be 1/4 of the price.

No, I have not tired trackIR though I do someday intend to when I can afford to buy it. However I feel all these comparisons are pointless - I would expect trackIR to work better than a home solution but that doesn't mean I think developers should favour one over the other.

Well, I'm sure Oleg and team are aware of the options to tracking devices, but seeing that the entire commercial world (to my knowledge) has opted for Track IR, I don't see why they would consider adding more options for the release! But I wouldn't worry if I were you guys, there has to be a way to just "emulate" track IR input for CoD, regardless of official support. If you ask me wether to add a better pilot animation, or better effect or a vital bugfix for the first patch, or add freetrack support, I think even freetrack users would opt for the game fixes.Ideally I would like a standard interface for headtracking as it would save developers time, allow for real consumer choice, stop workarounds or hacks that have appeared since NP encrypted the API and stop the pointless TIR vs FT threads popping up all the time.

Best of all I think headtracking would be supported in more games because there would be more people in support of headtracking asking developers to implement.

I think i'm going to stop now for good, because even i'm starting to repeat myself.

EDIT: WR, i'm not even going to bother responding - same replies from you as the whole way through the thread. "it's a hack, it's a hack, it's a hack" is not an argument. "Prove it's not a hack" is also not an argument as the onus would be for you to prove that it is. Our opinion on this matter differs and it would be pointless for either of us to continue.

[Wolf_Rider]

Ideally I would like a standard interface for headtracking as it would save developers time, allow for real consumer choice,





consensus was reached very early on in the discussion about alternative forms of headtracking.





stop workarounds or hacks that have appeared since NP encrypted the API and stop the pointless TIR vs FT threads popping up all the time.




that would be nice and hopefully, notwithstanding the way FT went about it, the consensus becomes adopted.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Np is already set up, which FT makes use of

GIGANTIC lie ever.

Proof it! That's the point:

- NP pretends that they "own" HT solution for games, simply as that!

Freetracks does UNIQUE calcutations, uses a vast array of cameras, have A LOT of tweak tools and provide a lot of output options!

NP dislikes a lot Freetrack becuse it's a BETTER software than all NP does so far. That's because they request FT to remove support for NP hardware. And that's why NP keep the broken record of "reverse engineering", as if nobody can do the math behind provide 6DoF HT with some 2D image as source. Pathetic.

Stop the lies, loser! Be a man! :-)

[Strike]

GIGANTIC lie ever.

Stop the lies, loser! Be a man! :-)

Better a man, than a troll like yourself LoBi. this is my final post on the matter, thanks for being relevant and adultlike in your responses Vicinity, I appreciate that behaviour. Wolf_Rider, I think you should join us and leave this troll by itself.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/geek-to-me/assets_c/2010/02/Forum_Troll-thumb-312x445-68506.jpg

http://www.findagrave.com/forums/userUploads/925262-troll.jpg

[Wolf_Rider]

@ LoBi...

Prove it? run FT without TIR files being used

[norulz]

@ LoBi...

Prove it? run FT without TIR files being used

how about you prove it is using those files? make a youtube movie for the eternity showing how it is (ab)using them... :)

[Wolf_Rider]

Read back through the threads... or just ask LoBi.

[Extreme_One]

@ LoBi...

Prove it? run FT without TIR files being used

Surely this is the bone of contention.

Quite clearly FT can run without using TIR files but no developer has yet to accommodate this.

Nobody disputes that FT does use TIR files but that is simply because no game developer has incorporated FT native support.

[TheGrunch]

Nobody disputes that FT does use TIR files but that is simply because no game developer has incorporated FT native support.

Bohemia Interactive did for Armed Assault 2.

Anyway, we've seen Oleg say that joystick axes will be able to control the camera in CoD, which is clearly the most open and sensible solution that any head-tracking device could use. What remains to be seen is whether all 6 axes will be available for use or whether 6DOF will be artificially restricted to a few head-tracking solutions.

[Wolf_Rider]

Surely this is the bone of contention.




Yes, that is the bone on contention




Quite clearly FT can run without using TIR files but no developer has yet to accommodate this.




ArmaII, as mentioned before... also mentioned before is FSX through its Simconnect




Nobody disputes that FT does use TIR files but that is simply because no game developer has incorporated FT native support.



Thank you, but, even with support, many users pass the support over in favour of using TIR files.


@ Grunch

Joystick or mouselook?

[Sokol1]

And about NewView, that emule TrackIR with POV HAT?

Use NPClient.dll. Is "evil" like FT too?

http://www.newview.hruks.com/index_en.php

Sokol1

[Wolf_Rider]

does it need TIR files in any manner?

[swiss]

does it need TIR files in any manner?

http://www.newview.hruks.com/links_en.php

http://www.hruks.com/projects_en.php


lol

[MadBlaster]

That npclient.dll sure gets around a lot.

[norulz]

Thank you, but, even with support, many users pass the support over in favour of using TIR files.

You spin so fast in tight circles that you got dizzy.

[TheGrunch]

@ Grunch

Joystick or mouselook?
No idea...don't play Arma, so I'm not sure how complete the head-tracking is in that game anyway. Certainly this video shows a player leaning using Freetrack, at least according to the video description. FreeTrack - Infantry soldier- Arma II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsmpD1HGvuY)

[LoBiSoMeM]

No idea...don't play Arma, so I'm not sure how complete the head-tracking is in that game anyway. Certainly this video shows a player leaning using Freetrack, at least according to the video description. FreeTrack - Infantry soldier- Arma II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsmpD1HGvuY)

4DoF, X and Y rotation, leaning and zoom with translation. All hooked to Freetrack axis, in control settings.

And BIS wasn't in any court with NP lawers and ArmAII and O:A sales are really good!

[LoBiSoMeM]

And we ended with 81.60% for FreeTrack suport in IL-2:CoD.

Let's see what's happens now...

[swiss]

The release of COD would be a nice start.

[CharveL]

No idea...don't play Arma, so I'm not sure how complete the head-tracking is in that game anyway. Certainly this video shows a player leaning using Freetrack, at least according to the video description. FreeTrack - Infantry soldier- Arma II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsmpD1HGvuY)

Looks pretty laggy to me but better than nothing I guess. If everything is on the up-and-up I don't see why FT shouldn't be available to people in some manner or other.

Does FT have "absolute mode" tracking where you don't have to constantly re-center for drift like the TIR1 did before it was introduced (and implemented support from 1C in a patch) in the TIR2?

[MadBlaster]

You get a laggy video when you make a video with free version of FRAPS.

[CharveL]

You get a laggy video when you make a video with free version of FRAPS.

Actually, I can tell the difference between laggy video and input lag. Not saying it's there, just that it looks like it is by the slow deliberate movements when I get near instant response with a TIR5.

[MadBlaster]

Actually, I can tell the difference between laggy video and input lag. Not saying it's there, just that it looks like it is by the slow deliberate movements when I get near instant response with a TIR5.

Gotcha. It could be many things. Anyway, I have Freetrack and I don't get the lag you see in the video. It is smooth and I use Logitech webcam. If there is any input lag, I don't percieve it. Also, you can use wiimote if input lag is a concern. Regarding drift, I don't get drift. I center it up once when I start playing and I'm good for the duration provided I don't shift my sitting position. A steady chair is a must. Also, I made my mouse cursor visible so I always know my vision center. But that is personal taste.

[julian265]

Does FT have "absolute mode" tracking where you don't have to constantly re-center for drift like the TIR1 did before it was introduced (and implemented support from 1C in a patch) in the TIR2?

Absolute mode is the default mode in FT.

Actually, I can tell the difference between laggy video and input lag. Not saying it's there, just that it looks like it is by the slow deliberate movements when I get near instant response with a TIR5.

It's impossible to judge input-output lag when you can't see the person's head movement. The person might just "move like that", or they may be compensating for excessive input sensitivity, or they might have too little sensitivity, or they may just be making slower movements to create an easy to watch video.

I wouldn't be surprised if TIR has faster and smoother responses than FT (I hope so), however FT gives you a smoothing slider, which allows you to set your preferred compromise between instant response and smooth response.

[SEE]

FT uses a x4 multiplier for the data captured by a standard 30fps webcam to overcome the lower frame rate. In use I havent really noticed much difference in performance using a 30fps webcam with FT compared to my 120 fps TIR4 kit. A PS3 cam or a Wimote can be used with FT to have 120fps tracking (from what I have read).

[CharveL]

Absolute mode is the default mode in FT.



It's impossible to judge input-output lag when you can't see the person's head movement. The person might just "move like that", or they may be compensating for excessive input sensitivity, or they might have too little sensitivity, or they may just be making slower movements to create an easy to watch video.

I wouldn't be surprised if TIR has faster and smoother responses than FT (I hope so), however FT gives you a smoothing slider, which allows you to set your preferred compromise between instant response and smooth response.

I know what you mean, it is difficult to tell without a live shot of the guy's head. Maybe he's just not using quick and precise head movements in this demo, which is often a symptom of input lag which is why I brought it up.

People perceive input lag differently, like frame rates. I see lots of folks who can't consciously tell the difference between 25fps and 60fps but it shows on how slow they tend to react since it takes that extra split second to get their bearings after spinning around.

Anyway, not having used FT I wouldn't judge it's performance, I just question certain aspects of performance and precision since it lacks the dedicated hardware advantage of TIR. It may be as some say that the extra cpu load is not significant enough to make enough difference to justify the cost of a TIR.

I've never really found much use for a webcam but I may pick one up sometime to try out FT for myself and compare.

[Blackdog_kt]

FT uses a x4 multiplier for the data captured by a standard 30fps webcam to overcome the lower frame rate. In use I havent really noticed much difference in performance using a 30fps webcam with FT compared to my 120 fps TIR4 kit. A PS3 cam or a Wimote can be used with FT to have 120fps tracking (from what I have read).

I'm actually thinking of getting one of those PS3 cams, i'm just waiting to see if CoD will support freetrack first.

I had a trackIR4 which died, i tried FT as an alternative with my standard 30 FPS webcam and the trackclipPro that i already had and i did notice it's slower to react than trackIR. I wouldn't mind getting a used PS3 cam with 120FPS if CoD supports alternative head trackers.

With a current mid-range PC the CPU load of FT is negligible. I think it's the 30FPS webcams that cause this slight delay, plus my own has a somewhat narrow field of view which further complicates things: i sometimes need to move around in weird angles to compensate for my crappy profiles and then it loses track of the dots at certain points :-P

What i'd really like in Freetrack is an interface more like the one used by trackIR for setting up the response curves, as i can't seem to get a good profile for FT no matter what i try. As for the rest, it is a very capable alternative and i guess that using a 120FPS camera would get rid of most of the slight delay between actual and in-game motion.

[Wolf_Rider]

why don't you just get the real thing, instead of a sponge that offers less than optimal performance?

[albx]

why don't you just get the real thing, instead of a sponge that offers less than optimal performance?
everytime somebody talks about freetrack you come in and say your idiocy...
why don't you go to hell and shut your mouth? you are only a spammer

[CharveL]

everytime somebody talks about freetrack you come in and say your idiocy...
why don't you go to hell and shut your mouth? you are only a spammer

Or you could stop taking it so personally and just not reply.

FT uses a x4 multiplier for the data captured by a standard 30fps webcam to overcome the lower frame rate. In use I havent really noticed much difference in performance using a 30fps webcam with FT compared to my 120 fps TIR4 kit. A PS3 cam or a Wimote can be used with FT to have 120fps tracking (from what I have read).

That x4 multiplier quantizes between samples taken from the lower framerate of the webcam which enhances accuracy the same as "smoothing" on a mouse or TIR. The unfortunate trade-off for using a quantizing algorithm is input lag response which is unavoidable.

With TIR for example, I keep the smoothing fairly low, around 15% because the benefit of a little more precision is negated by the lag it introduces. It's not as noticeable on newer mice because of the insane sampling rates they work at now don't really require it.

You may not think you notice it but it definitely affects the way you pivot around in-game, even by milliseconds. You can equate it to playing an online FPS shooter game at 50ms vs 200ms, not as a direct comparison but to illustrate that sub-second lag can have a big impact on your effectiveness.

[Blackdog_kt]

why don't you just get the real thing, instead of a sponge that offers less than optimal performance?

Well, i'm spending 70 Euros on a collector's edition of CoD and possibly 70 more on a RAM upgrade, so i can't spare another 150 for a trackIR right now to replace my previous unit which proved unreliable and died after only 2 years of use. But tell you what, if you are willing to send me the cash i'll gladly buy a trackIR 5. Until you do however, it's none of your business what i use ;)

[albx]

Or you could stop taking it so personally and just not reply.



and who are you to tell me that? you know nothing at all of what he told me in other posts, so is just not your business

[CharveL]

and who are you to tell me that? you know nothing at all of what he told me in other posts, so is just not your business

Actually I do since I read them.

It's just that you have been far more offensive in your responses than WolfRider has, you just don't see that since you're too busy clutching your pearls in indignation.

[SEE]

Not sure if my settings will suit you BlackdogKt but they may help as a starter. These are for 6DOF which I use with a MS VX1000 30fps lifecam. You will see that I have dumbed down the roll, sideways and zoom axis with varying amounts of deadzone to suit each axis for my preferences. I tried this profile with my TrackIR Pro Clip (vertical LEDs) rather than my Hatclip (Horizontal LEds) - it needed a little bit of tweaking on some of the axis.


http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt341/Angeloevs/ftsetupwp.jpg

[Wolf_Rider]

everytime somebody talks about freetrack you come in and say your idiocy...
why don't you go to hell and shut your mouth? you are only a spammer




you could always go practise what you preach...




Until you do however, it's none of your business what i use ;)



aww, diddums

[MadBlaster]

Good to see this thread back on top of the heap where it belongs.:grin:

[Space Communist]

Ok this thread seems to have ended up being 99% about software related legal arguments but nobody has, as far as I can tell, actually answered the question as to whether or not Cliffs of Dover will work with freetrack.

Because wow I would be seriously choked if it didn't.

[albx]

you could always go practise what you preach...
aww, diddums

W_R pull out your head from the @ss of some NP's person... you'll see finally the light and the freedom...

[robtek]

Well albx, it seems that your fanatical support for FT has deleted your "be civilized - files".
Hopefully you find, maybe with a group therapy, a way back to normal.

[albx]

Well albx, it seems that your fanatical support for FT has deleted your "be civilized - files".
Hopefully you find, maybe with a group therapy, a way back to normal.

you are wrong, i'm not a "fanatic", i'm only answering W_R with his same words, perhaps he is a NP's fanatic, everytime we start to talk about this argument he begins to say "Tir is better","buy TIR","why don't you just get the real thing, instead of a sponge that offers less than optimal performance?" is this a sort of "TIR fanatic"?? or I'm again wrong?

[robtek]

Any fanatic is beyond reason!
I think everybody here should appear as if he seriously thinks about his answering posts and doesn't see only black and white.
I have missed that impression on quite a few posts here from both sides.
Besides that its fun reading.

[sigur_ros]

At least in this case fanatics have reason, people who resist do not.

[SEE]

The unfortunate trade-off for using a quantizing algorithm is input lag response which is unavoidable.

You may not think you notice it but it definitely affects the way you pivot around in-game, even by milliseconds.

even a sub-second lag can have a big impact on your effectiveness.

I will fire up my TrackIR (which is safely tucked away for CoD duty if required..:grin:) and concentrate on the issue of FT's response/lag times and wether it affects my game. It may well be that I haven't percieved the problem due to the fact I set my axis curves for a small deadzone , slow initial movement to the side and then rapid acceleration to my 6 (on both systems). If you are correct, and you may well be, I will look into getting a PS3 eyecam as I prefer FT with IL946 + 6DOF.

[albx]

You may not think you notice it but it definitely affects the way you pivot around in-game, even by milliseconds. You can equate it to playing an online FPS shooter game at 50ms vs 200ms, not as a direct comparison but to illustrate that sub-second lag can have a big impact on your effectiveness.

The lag that people talks about is a webcam limitation that the max framerate is 30 not the software (if you fine tune your curves you'll not notice any), but with a ps3 you can get 125 fps at 320x240 and 75 fps at 640x480

[LoBiSoMeM]

I use FT with a PS3 Eye with no lag. And yes - I tested TiR products. It's the same thing.

Simple as that: use some "webcam" with more than 100FPS and the magic is done, but cheap 30FPS webcams provide good experience too.

Waiting for Oleg's response about FreeTrack suport. Any word?

[albx]

I use FT with a PS3 Eye with no lag. And yes - I tested TiR products. It's the same thing.

Simple as that: use some "webcam" with more than 100FPS and the magic is done, but cheap 30FPS webcams provide good experience too.

Waiting for Oleg's response about FreeTrack suport. Any word?

I also have a ps3 eye, and about FT support, I think we should just wait and try if will work, i don't believe anybody will come here and tell yes or not.. :rolleyes:

[LoBiSoMeM]

I also have a ps3 eye, and about FT support, I think we should just wait and try if will work, i don't believe anybody will come here and tell yes or not.. :rolleyes:

Yes, I believe that too... And I'm a little bit "happy" with that, if you understand me... lol!

[CharveL]

The lag that people talks about is a webcam limitation that the max framerate is 30 not the software (if you fine tune your curves you'll not notice any), but with a ps3 you can get 125 fps at 320x240 and 75 fps at 640x480

For the most part you are right that a higher framerate camera will likely make the most difference and provide an adequate experience, perhaps even on par with one of the older TIR versions (the TIR3 was 120hz) even though it probably cannot match the field of view a TIR5 has.

The software limitation I mention effects everyone on FT or TIR, it doesn't matter. It comes from the amount of time it takes the computer to "guess" the amount of in-between frames (quantizing) from actual samples. You get better accuracy at the expense of lag (the amount of milliseconds it takes to process and return the information) which gets worse, linearly, with the amount of smoothing.

It's important to note that the higher the sampling rate of the camera, the less smoothing you need, much like a mouse.

How much is one of these PS3 eyes you mention? And is there any technical specs on it's field of view?

[LoBiSoMeM]

(...)even though it probably cannot match the field of view a TIR5 has.
(...)
How much is one of these PS3 eyes you mention? And is there any technical specs on it's field of view?

Google it first. Do a little research, because you have a lot of opinions and voted NO in this poll... I'm not suprised with that: you know very little but have a lot of opinions!

:cool:

[CharveL]

Google it first. Do a little research, because you have a lot of opinions and voted NO in this poll... I'm not suprised with that: you know very little but have a lot of opinions!

:cool:

Hush...adults are having a conversation here.

[Wolf_Rider]

you are wrong, i'm not a "fanatic", i'm only answering W_R with his same words, perhaps he is a NP's fanatic, everytime we start to talk about this argument he begins to say "Tir is better","buy TIR","why don't you just get the real thing, instead of a sponge that offers less than optimal performance?" is this a sort of "TIR fanatic"?? or I'm again wrong?



Actually, I say - FT is a hack ;) sooo, it looks like you're wrong.. it does offer less than optimal performance




And yes - I tested TiR products.



how could you have done that?

[SEE]

Just spent an hour or so with my TIR and, compared to FT with a 30fps web cam, TIR has a faster response time. Never thought about it before or the possible impact on game play. I don't know much about the PS3 eyecam other than it is compatible - wether to get one depends on COD's headtracking API support but, from what I understand, they are reasonably priced so worth getting for my second PC set up and have FT on one and TIR on other.

[albx]

For the most part you are right that a higher framerate camera will likely make the most difference and provide an adequate experience, perhaps even on par with one of the older TIR versions (the TIR3 was 120hz) even though it probably cannot match the field of view a TIR5 has.

The software limitation I mention effects everyone on FT or TIR, it doesn't matter. It comes from the amount of time it takes the computer to "guess" the amount of in-between frames (quantizing) from actual samples. You get better accuracy at the expense of lag (the amount of milliseconds it takes to process and return the information) which gets worse, linearly, with the amount of smoothing.

It's important to note that the higher the sampling rate of the camera, the less smoothing you need, much like a mouse.

How much is one of these PS3 eyes you mention? And is there any technical specs on it's field of view?
here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeTrack you can see some comparisons, ps3 eyecam have a max field of view of 75° instead TIR5 is 51.7° if the data there is not wrong. I paid for a new ps3 eyecam about 25 euros, and i can use like a webcam also not only for freetrack

CharveL, what people complain here is that TIR is overpriced, so for who can't or don't want afford it there is freetrack, cheap because today almost everybody have a webcam. I want be clear that i don't say one is better than another, just that one is "cheaper" than another.

[albx]

Actually, I say - FT is a hack ;) sooo, it looks like you're wrong.. it does offer less than optimal performance




how could you have done that?

can you prove FT is an hack? give us the prove.... and a technical explanation why is TIR better than freetrack.

[LoBiSoMeM]

here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeTrack you can see some comparisons, ps3 eyecam have a max field of view of 75° instead TIR5 is 51.7° if the data there is not wrong. I paid for a new ps3 eyecam about 25 euros, and i can use like a webcam also not only for freetrack

You must let the guy do a little "adult" research by himself... :cool:

For the always stupid W-R: I used a lot of TiR hardware bought by friends, tested since TiR2 to TiR5.

If the "VOTE NO!" crowd don't know a thing about Freetrack work, what's the specs of cameras avaliable for PC use, I don't care. I know how TiR performs. I like TiR performance, but like more "do yourself" Freetrack approach, with equal performance.

Simple as that.

[Wolf_Rider]

can you prove FT is an hack? give us the prove.... and a technical explanation why is TIR better than freetrack.

read back through the threads, and you'll see



@ LoBi

with equal performance? yes, Lobi, that's because FT uses part of NP software

[albx]

LoBiSoMeM, it seems that with CharveL is possible to have a decent conversation, with W_R is impossible... do you see his answers? always the same... hack,hack, performance, hack... it's like he get paid every time he write those words

[albx]

read back through the thread, and you'll see

you again are offending my intelligence and testing my patience... the words that you write about what YOU think are NOTHING, you have to PROVE what you say ok?

you edited after i wrote my answer...

WICH PART OF NP'S SOFTWARE DOES FT USE?

[Wolf_Rider]

@ albx

you've already done that

[albx]

@ albx

you've already done that

your posts are so clear.... :cool:

[Wolf_Rider]

@ albx...
so, who are you??

[CharveL]

here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeTrack you can see some comparisons, ps3 eyecam have a max field of view of 75° instead TIR5 is 51.7° if the data there is not wrong. I paid for a new ps3 eyecam about 25 euros, and i can use like a webcam also not only for freetrack

CharveL, what people complain here is that TIR is overpriced, so for who can't or don't want afford it there is freetrack, cheap because today almost everybody have a webcam. I want be clear that i don't say one is better than another, just that one is "cheaper" than another.

Interesting. Coupled with the cheap price it does sound like a decent alternative for those who don't want to pony up for the more expensive unit.

I totally agree that, barring any of the legal stuff, FT is a good alternative.

I'll reserve any judgements on performance comparisons until I can see for myself but I only bring up the technical aspects out of an interest in finding out or explaining what I do know about TIR, not to tell people what they should or should not use.

[sigur_ros]

WICH PART OF NP'S SOFTWARE DOES FT USE?

This part (http://code.google.com/p/linuxtrack-wine/source/browse/src/ltrnp.c) according to Wolf_Troll. This little source code from linux-track (http://code.google.com/p/linux-track/), another evil hacking project stealing from Naturalpoint. ;)

[Wolf_Rider]

the LT looks hard

[albx]

This part (http://code.google.com/p/linuxtrack-wine/source/browse/src/ltrnp.c) according to Wolf_Troll. This little source code from linux-track (http://code.google.com/p/linux-track/), another evil hacking project stealing from Naturalpoint. ;)

what he probably don't and will never understand is how it works. The software (the game) call some functions of a .dll, this .dll give back at the game the values X-Y-Z-yaw-pitch-roll. what freetrack do, when a software that don't use FT protocol, is to use a .dll with the same name of TIR's .dll, but are 2 completely different .dll. The game think is talking with NP's .dll and get the values back, but is freetrack, and no NP's .dll or software is involved in it. The complain that could only had NP was the string
sigdata = {
"precise head tracking\n put your head into the game\n now go look around\n\n "
"Copyright EyeControl Technologies",

"hardware camera\n software processing data\n track user movement\n\n "
"Copyright EyeControl Technologies"
};


that was removed, so can you again explain your statement?

@ LoBi
with equal performance? yes, Lobi, that's because FT uses part of NP software

thanks

[LoBiSoMeM]

Interesting. Coupled with the cheap price it does sound like a decent alternative for those who don't want to pony up for the more expensive unit.

I totally agree that, barring any of the legal stuff, FT is a good alternative.

I'll reserve any judgements on performance comparisons until I can see for myself but I only bring up the technical aspects out of an interest in finding out or explaining what I do know about TIR, not to tell people what they should or should not use.

And this is one of the "VOTE NO" guys... Glad to see! One vote less for "NO"?

Funny stuff!

[SEE]

I'll reserve any judgements on performance comparisons until I can see for myself but I only bring up the technical aspects out of an interest in finding out or explaining what I do know about TIR, not to tell people what they should or should not use.

I set the multiplier down to x2 and reduced the smoothing algorithms and it didn't make a fat lot difference to the slight (and it is very slight) lag. Having immediately changed from one system to another I am left unsure as to what, if any, impact the slight lag would make in actual use as I seemed fairly comfortable with both set-ups in full switch (others would probably say otherwise, I can only speak for myself). I'm sure if you were to try it you would be suprised at how well it 'can' perform even with a 30fps webcam - even if it didn't quite match your TIR performance. All will be revealed in a few weeks!

[Wolf_Rider]

what he probably don't and will never understand is how it works. The software (the game) call some functions of a .dll, this .dll give back at the game the values X-Y-Z-yaw-pitch-roll. what freetrack do, when a software that don't use FT protocol, is to use a .dll with the same name of TIR's .dll, but are 2 completely different .dll. The game think is talking with NP's .dll and get the values back, but is freetrack, and no NP's .dll or software is involved in it.

so can you again explain your statement?


thanks



thanks for all that albx... you just wrote your own response

[julian265]

with equal performance? yes, Lobi, that's because FT uses part of NP software

:lol::lol::lol:

that's the most obvious trolling so far.

[albx]

thanks for all that albx... you just wrote your own response

buahhhhhhhhhhhhhh TROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL you are only a TROLL

said this, you'll not get any other answer from me, think wathever you want, you think FT is an hack? I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK

goodbye

[Wolf_Rider]

@ albx...

Cya :)




:lol::lol::lol:

that's the most obvious trolling so far.



hmmm... let's see now - hmmm, a difference of opinion = troll, eh? (sticks and stones, sport.. sticks and stones)

[tjhowse]

For what it's worth I would like to see CoD support freetrack's interface. It's just another tickbox in a menu which provides more options for people. Simple as that.

Thanks,
tjhowse.

[Blackdog_kt]

From the English language manual (it's linked on another thread in the CoD sub-forum), Chapter "Flying the Planes - Pilot Controls", page 68, second to last paragraph:


More advanced players may consider using a head-tracking device or webcam software for an even more lifelike view control.


So, i guess that seals the deal ;)

[MadBlaster]

Thanks God. Some good news. :cool: Now if you can fix this epilepsy crapola, I go to church next Sunday.;)

[tjhowse]

Webcam software? Buh?

I suppose at least this confirms that it's not a TIR-exclusive thing.

[julian265]

Sounds good - I'll wait until I see the head axes in the controller setup screen before believing!

[julian265]

from http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/6751022719

"Jules: Can the six head control axes be assigned to by *any* game controller axis, rather than being limited to TrackIR?

Currently you can only control your head with the keyboard, mouse, or a head-tracking device.
Improvements to our in-game camera are high on our list, including smooth panning, axis support, “realistic” shaky-cam, etc."

hmmm. Sounds like IL-2 to me - 2 DoF for anyone without TIR. Given that the head position axes are axes (!), I'm a bit suspicious about the future "axis support".

[Sneaksie]

Russian players say that Freetrack is working fine with the game.

[Meek]

I have a TrackIR 5, but I would like alternatives to be supported as well, competition helps drive technology forward.

[SEE]

Russian players say that Freetrack is working fine with the game.

Thanks for that, excellent news for all Headtracking users (apart for some who shall not be named....:grin:)

[Space Communist]

from http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8071032709/m/6751022719

"Jules: Can the six head control axes be assigned to by *any* game controller axis, rather than being limited to TrackIR?

Currently you can only control your head with the keyboard, mouse, or a head-tracking device.
Improvements to our in-game camera are high on our list, including smooth panning, axis support, “realistic” shaky-cam, etc."

hmmm. Sounds like IL-2 to me - 2 DoF for anyone without TIR. Given that the head position axes are axes (!), I'm a bit suspicious about the future "axis support".


Well there has been a mod to allow 6 DoF support in IL-2 for years. Anyway even if they have to implement it a little later 2 DoF is plenty for normal situations. Just have to set a key to center the gunsight on German planes is all.

[sigur_ros]

Relief to see they didn't swallow NaturalPoint's interface 'upgrade' offer like Bohemia Interactive and Eagle Dynamics, screwing their customers in process.

[julian265]

IIRC the Russian version of one of the DCS sims worked fine with FT, but the US/UK etc version didn't. We'll just have to wait and see.

[SEE]

IIRC the Russian version of one of the DCS sims worked fine with FT, but the US/UK etc version didn't. We'll just have to wait and see.

According to the English manual (linked in another thread and hopefully appropriate for our version release) does state 'headtracking with webcam and software' support. Double whammy of no epi filter option and no FT for the rest of us would be .....:evil:

[Sauf]

from one of the russian threads:

"Fritrek works, but are lacking in smooth zooms, although it could not have found yet"

and

"Joystick mouse emulation software, RRjoy works"

[Sokol1]

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3248766.html#Post3248766

Sokol1

[Sokol1]

LOL - CloD manual, pag. 68:

More advanced players may consider using a head-tracking device or webcam software for an even more lifelike view control.

Sokol1

[tjhowse]

Freetrack using the old, unencrypted trackir interface works with CLOD.