PDA

View Full Version : Equilibrium Mod


The Rider
10-12-2010, 02:41 PM
I have a lot of free time at the moment and I started to mod Orcs on the Marsh game. What do you think of the following changes in the game:


Skill Changes:

MIGHT
Heroism: +2,+4,+6 Attack (was +1, +3, +6)
Resistance: +2, +4, +6 Defense (was +1, +3, +5)
Anger: 20%/+2, 40%/+4, 60%/+8 Rage Increase/Maximum Rage (was 20%,40%,60% rage flow increase)
The Power of Darkness: +3, +5/1, +7/2 Attack AND Defense/Initiative of all Undead (was +3, +5/1, +7/2 Attack/Initiative)
Bloodlust: +6/+2, +12/+4, +18/+6 Maximum Rage/Attack (was +5,+10,+15 maximum rage)

Counter-Attack: now in the Might Tree. Level 2 and 3 now give no retaliation ability to all allies for the 1st/2nd round.

MIND
Prayer: +3%/+1, +5%/+2, +7%/+3 Critical Chance/Defense (was +3%,+5%,+7% Critical Chance)
Absolute Balance: +4/+1, +8/+2, +12/+3 Mana and Rage/Attack and Defense (was +4,+8,+12 Mana and Rage)
Dragon Voice: +1/+6, +1/+12, +2/+18 Morale to animals and dragons/Increases Maximum Rage (was +1,+1,+2 Morale)
Trophy now costs only 5,5,5 mind runes, not 5+1,5+1,5+1 mind+magic runes

Holy Armor: now in the Mind Tree. Increases the magic, fire, poison and astral resistance with 30%, 30%, 50% for the first 1,2,2 rounds.

MAGIC
Linguistics: +2, +4, +6 Intellect (was +1, +3, +6 Intellect)
Order Magic: +6, +9, +12 Maximum Scrolls (was with no scolls bonus)
Distortion Magic: +2, +4, +6 Maximum Mana and Scrolls (was with no mana/scrolls bonus)
Chaos Magic: +6, +9, +12 Maximum Mana (was witn no mana bonus)
Thesis: +2/+8, +4/+16, +6/+24 Intellect/Maximum Mana (was +2/+7, +4/+14, +6/+21 Intellect/Maximum Mana)

Mega Mage: Now slows down all enemies and reduces their initiative for the first 1/2/2 rounds with -1/0, -2/0, -2/-1 speed/initiative




With all skills learned now your hero will be with:
Attach +18 (was +9 )
Defense +18 (was +11 )
Intellect +18 (was +18 )
Mana +90 (was +69 )
Rage +90 (was +67 )
Scrolls +27

Changes after the battle:
Hero gains different bonuses


Alchemy skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 2,4,6 Crystalls
Rage skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 1,2,3 Rage Potions
Wisdom skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 1,2,3 Mana Potions
High Magic skill: 3%/6%/9% Chance for 1 Mana Well
Spirit Power skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 1,2,3 Life Fruits
Bloodlust skill: 2%/4%/6% Chance for Divine Blood Potion (+150 Leadership)

Warrior class:
Might Runes: 3% Chance for 2 Might Runes (~18 might runes for the whole game)
Mind Runes: 3% Chance for 3 Mind Runes (~27 mind runes for the whole game)
Magic Runes: 5% Chance for 4 Magic Runes (~60 magic runes for the whole game)

Paladin Class:
Might Runes: 4% Chance for 3 Might Runes (~36 might runes for the whole game)
Mind Runes: 3% Chance for 3 Mind Runes (~27 mind runes for the whole game)
Magic Runes: 4% Chance for 3 Magic Runes (~36 magic rune for the whole game)

Mage Class:
Might Runes: 5% Chance for 4 Might Runes (~60 might runes for the whole game)
Mind Runes: 3% Chance for 3 Mind Runes (~27 mind runes for the whole game)
Magic Runes: 3% Chance for 2 Magic Runes (~18 magic runes for the whole game)

Morale
Whole army of humans (or with neutrals) +1 Morale
Whole army of elves (or with neutrals) +1 Morale
Whole army of humans and elves (or with neutrals) +1 Morale
Whole army of dwarves (or with neutrals) +1 Morale
Whole army of orcs (or with neutrals) +1 Morale
Whole army of lizards (or with neutrals) +1 Morale

Demons always have at least +1 Morale

Hunters give +1 morale to elven archers.
Green Dragons give +1 morale to all elves and all spellcasters.

Skill dependencies
A lot has been changed in Might and Mind Tree. Look at the attached pictures.
Absolute Balance since it was improved to give not only Mana and Rage but Attack and Defense is made harder to be reached.
High Magic 2 now needs Destruction 2, High Magic 3 needs Destruction 3 (until now High Magic only needed 5 previous skills to be learned, Bloodthirst needs 7 skills and Resurrection needs 6).

N3MES1S
10-12-2010, 10:21 PM
Since i didnt even started the new orcs campaign yet, i cant tell u if your changes will be good, but i think they will. Since the gain runes after a battle is no longer working on the other campaigns (almost i tried without success, the code must be different or something) would be good if u can adapt the bonuses after the battles to the other campaigns.

The Rider
10-13-2010, 10:02 AM
Here is the mod, changed few things in the description in the first post.
Unfortunately for some reason the file with the descriptions of the skills that is in the mod_equilibrium_orcs.kfs doesnt work. To make it work, you have to open the mod file and to extract the eng_skills.txt in the same directory.

Both mod_equilibrium_orcs.kfs and eng_skills.txt should be in the Kings Bounty Armored Princess\sessions\orcs directory

yujy
10-13-2010, 11:32 AM
For the changes after the battle; it is possible to get 2 bonuses or just one of the following. If is only one which is the order?


Alchemy skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 2,4,6 Crystalls
Rage skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 1,2,3 Rage Potions
Wisdom skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 1,2,3 Mana Potions
High Magic skill: 3%/6%/9% Chance for 1 Mana Well
Spirit Power skill: 5%/10%/15% Chance for 1,2,3 Life Fruits
Bloodlust skill: 2%/4%/6% Chance for Divine Blood Potion (+150 Leadership)

The Rider
10-13-2010, 12:00 PM
It is chance based on the level of the skill, usually 3 or 5% per skill level. You can get several bonuses after one battle.

marcinl0
10-13-2010, 12:25 PM
Very interesting mod, for now the best for Crossworlds, but maybe too "overpowered" I think - maybe half of the bonuses value would be sufficient for real, hardcore, not only easy fun & finally boring gameplay? I don't want overpowered terminators of any 5-th level enemy units.

yujy
10-13-2010, 01:18 PM
Very interesting mod, for now the best for Crossworlds, but maybe too "overpowered" I think - maybe half of the bonuses value would be sufficient for real, hardcore, not only easy fun & finally boring gameplay? I don't want overpowered terminators of any 5-th level enemy units.

It might be overpowered if you use the same style of play (the black knight option, paladin resurrection + phantom etc), but if you want to try using some different styles, different combos, units etc you'll find the normal game close to impossible to finish (no loss game). This might be just the boost needed to try something different.
For example for my mage game impossible no loss i found it extremely hard to play (much, much harder that Armored Princess). Some fights i had to play them over and over again just to get that no loss.

The Rider
10-13-2010, 01:56 PM
Exactly my idea, the mod is created so you can use every combination of units, not only 5th level plus paladins and phantoms. I myself had more than enough of this game-style, so feel free to use something different. The intention after the bonuses is:
mana and rage - so you can play battle after battle, and not to wait your pools to charge.
leadership - not so big bonus, it is equal to 3-4 more flags for the whole game.
The more runes - you will have enough runes for 2-3 more skills (and it is not even sufficient to raise them all to third level). I have played 3 games with this mod, and there were plenty of hard battles even with it - just try the mistirious tower with mage (the last 2 battles), I needed more than 5 reloads to win the battles.

The Rider
10-13-2010, 01:59 PM
Very interesting mod, for now the best for Crossworlds, but maybe too "overpowered" I think - maybe half of the bonuses value would be sufficient for real, hardcore, not only easy fun & finally boring gameplay? I don't want overpowered terminators of any 5-th level enemy units.
which bonuses do you think are overpowered?

ICECOOL
10-13-2010, 04:07 PM
Hi.
I want to play that game once more, and i`ll try play with mod this time. So I suppose to unpack this file and thats it? Game will be chanded? There will be no bugs? I dont want to stop playing in the middle when game crashes by this mod. One more thing - I have Polish version of that game - is that a problem?

marcinl0
10-13-2010, 06:28 PM
which bonuses do you think are overpowered?

I think the solution is simple:

one 1. "fun" basic version of the mod - as in your proposal,

and second 2. more "hardcore" version,


I think IMHO (some bonuses was even lowered vs original):

Skill Changes:

MIGHT
Heroism: +1,+2,+3 Attack (was +1, +3, +6)
Resistance: +1, +3, +5 Defense (was +1, +3, +5)
Anger: 20%, 30%/+1, 50%/+2 Rage Increase/Maximum Rage (was 20%,40%,60% rage flow increase)
The Power of Darkness: +1, +3/1, +5/2 Attack AND Defense/Initiative of all Undead (was +3, +5/1, +7/2 Attack/Initiative)
Bloodlust: +5, +10/+1, +15/+2 Maximum Rage/Attack (was +5,+10,+15 maximum rage)

Counter-Attack: now in the Might Tree. Level 2 and 3 now give no retaliation ability to all allies for the 1st/2nd round.

MIND
Prayer: +3%, +5%/+1, +7%/+2 Critical Chance/Defense (was +3%,+5%,+7% Critical Chance)
Absolute Balance: +4, +8/+1, +12/+2 Mana and Rage/Attack and Defense (was +4,+8,+12 Mana and Rage)
Dragon Voice: +1, +1/+2, +2/+4 Morale to animals and dragons/Increases Maximum Rage (was +1,+1,+2 Morale)
Trophy now costs only 5,5,5 mind runes, not 5+1,5+1,5+1 mind+magic runes

Holy Armor: now in the Mind Tree. Increases the magic, fire, poison and astral resistance with 30%, 30%, 50% for the first 1,2,2 rounds.

MAGIC
Linguistics: +1, +3, +5 Intellect (was +1, +3, +6 Intellect)
Order Magic: +0, +2, +4 Maximum Scrolls (was with no scolls bonus)
Distortion Magic: +0, +1, +2 Maximum Mana and Scrolls (was with no mana/scrolls bonus)
Chaos Magic: +0, +2, +4 Maximum Mana (was witn no mana bonus)
Thesis: +1/+5, +2/+10, +3/+15 Intellect/Maximum Mana (was +2/+7, +4/+14, +6/+21 Intellect/Maximum Mana)

Mega Mage: Now slows down all enemies and reduces their initiative for the first 1/2/2 rounds with -1/0, -2/0, -2/-1 speed/initiative

The Rider
10-13-2010, 09:57 PM
I dont get your point. You want to weaken the heroes from the original game? Why? You can simply not use your runes and buy only level 1 or 2 from a skill if you want to be hard.

One of the reasons I created this was of course for fun. But I have asked myself while playing the original AP why the skills dont offer equal possibilities for the three aspects of the game: Attack, Defense and Intellect or why mana and rage are always insufficient. When I played as warrior often did I this mistake to upgrade a dragon skill with demands over my rage skill or I have cursed the game because I only needed mana for one more spell after 30 or 40 rounds of playing for a final resurrection and I had to replay the fight which at the end become boring. Or why the scrolls are so limited and I had to run to a castle to sell not needed scrolls so I can buy another I need and sometimes this takes hours if I have to travel between islands (some scrolls are very expensive and you always need some extra money). So at the end I raised Attack and Defense adding some extra points to them to the level Intellect can be raised from the original rules. Added some more mana and rage (+21 points actually, which is exactly one middle level spell - if you have noticed much of the enemy heroes in OOTM have 250-300 mana points and you have only 60 or 70)

About the Polish version:
the language file I edited is in English, this could be the only problem. This mod cannot crash in the middle of the game. The files that are edited either work from the beggining or dont work. And these work just fine. I finished 2 games with it. So Enjoy it :)

marcinl0
10-13-2010, 10:45 PM
My main benefit from KB is strategic planning, development of hero, tactical solutions of battles, thinking how to wise use all available runes, equipment, crystals etc. without abil. lvl limitations for most effective final result - but without any "cheating". With cheating the game quickly losing any fun.

You significantly powered the hero (for fun) with fine new powerful skills and abilities, and with simultaneously notably raising the values of basic Attack, Def, Int, Mana, Rage - but it is good for not very experienced "fast" KB players I think. Therefore, I even lowered values of the original basic bonuses to balance the whole gameplay with your mod for experienced players. But it is only my proposition, you are the author of your very interesting mod.

yujy
10-14-2010, 08:11 AM
My main benefit from KB is strategic planning, development of hero, tactical solutions of battles, thinking how to wise use all available runes, equipment, crystals etc. without abil. lvl limitations for most effective final result - but without any "cheating". With cheating the game quickly losing any fun

What planning are you talking about?!, everyone who ever did the no loss used the same lineup, the same general equipment (changing it from time to time to face a specific unit). If you weaken the hero you will end up using the same line ups but will only take more rounds to do it. There will be no significant change to your game play just a longer game.

Now more to the point i played until lvl 18 with this mod. First thing i did i stopped digging all the treasures from the battle are with my dragon(only when it was convenient) what a relief (getting so bored with that). Significant stronger hero, more mana at the end of the fights which means less time waiting for it to regenerate. Most battle now last 5-10 rounds. Not using any paladins, inquisitors (just great so tired of these units). I'll see how strong the hero really is when i hit verona. Currently i'm using rune mage, archmage and green dragon (for the trap medal).
The moral bonus is also great, but i suggest to receive the bonus only for all human, all orcs etc, without neutrals (most power units are neutrals and with the archmege and rune mage they make a very strong line up). Currently i have the maximum morale for this unit (except dragon).

p.s. using mage hero

ICECOOL
10-14-2010, 09:02 AM
Added some more mana and rage (+21 points actually, which is exactly one middle level spell - if you have noticed much of the enemy heroes in OOTM have 250-300 mana points and you have only 60 or 70)

About the Polish version:
the language file I edited is in English, this could be the only problem. This mod cannot crash in the middle of the game. The files that are edited either work from the beggining or dont work. And these work just fine. I finished 2 games with it. So Enjoy it :)
THX

So true man about that mana. I think U should give even more mana than this - 21. I played as mage and at the end of the game when I was puttin everything in increasing my mana count, that mana was only 175 point high! That was so frustrating when enemy heroes had about 300 and even 400 mana! So I strongly advise U to change this in that mod. Or just tell me where I can change it in that file. I also think that runes count after gettin level up should be higher, or at least more fair, for ex. not 0 red, 1 green and 3 blue as U could get after 50th level. I hope that U didnt forget to NOT decrease that runes count after 50th level?

PS Did U thought about modding an artifact in game? Im dreaming :) about artifact gaveing +3 morale to every unit (incl. dragons!) and some extra (ex. +1 to all stats :) And why the hell I cant hire red dragons in KBCW? In greater numbers than about 8 in that game?

marcinl0
10-14-2010, 10:23 AM
What planning are you talking about?!, everyone who ever did the no loss used the same lineup, the same general equipment (changing it from time to time to face a specific unit). If you weaken the hero you will end up using the same line ups but will only take more rounds to do it. There will be no significant change to your game play just a longer game.


I disagree with "everyone who ever did the no loss used the same lineup, the same general equipment". I finished KBAP many times with different heroes and with different equipment, especially sets - this was the main pleasure to plan the usage of various sets and final efficiency. For example, with paladin hero I prefer basically inquisitor set with live units, for mage dead set etc. Always different.

Really, if you like fast gameplay - maximum powered, not balanced mod is for you. KB series is generally rather too easy, especially in late game, even on impossible difficulty - so the end of gameplay is fast.


I finally repeat: I think the solution is simple: more versions of this fine mod:

1. "for fun" basic version of the mod, as in first post,

2. totally overpowered version (even vs basic v.) for "fast & for fun" players (notably more mana total 300-400 etc.),

3. more "hardcore" version, for example as I proposed, for experienced, strategic, not only "for fun" players.

The Rider
10-14-2010, 03:40 PM
marcinl0, I still dont get your point, so I have to ask you something. Are you sure you know the basics of KB? Can you tell me how you can reach 300-400 mana with your hero?

This mod raises your mana with 21 in difference with the original rules. Again if you want hardcore version, play with the original rules and dont raise your skills on level 3, I have done this, playing only with skills level 1 and 2. I will not change anything you suggest, because my objective was different than yours (which I still dont understand). The only thing that comes in my mind is that maybe you think your hero can raise her attributes with 18 each, or adding 90 more mana and rage (these are the new values, not extra bonuses), which is not the case, read again the description.

I will change the morale file of the units, removing the neutral creatures bonus :) I wanted more morale for trolls and cyclops and I didnt count that dragons are still neutral and they are buffed by voice of the dragon skill. Just download again the file and install the mod. It doesnt need a fresh game start.

marcinl0
10-14-2010, 04:55 PM
Can you tell me how you can reach 300-400 mana with your hero?

Basic thing, because maybe not all of us fully understand the basics of KB. Mana= 300-400 is absolutely not needed to Amelia hero, because in battle there are many various tactical possibilities of mana gain (spell, abilities, special units etc. etc.) - enemy hero NOT have these possibilities at all. Therefore, mana 300-400 for enemy hero is balanced, but for Amelia not.

Simply: I see a problem with your interesting mod to balance the whole gameplay - especially in late game, even on impossible difficulty, therefore game become "boring".

Why you don't want to create more versions of your interesting mod (1. fun basic, 2. overpowered with mana=400, 3. hardcore strategic) as proposed - and all of us would be satisfied.

ICECOOL
10-15-2010, 08:22 AM
Yes, but instead of useing i.e. spell that transfer Ur rage into mana, U use spell that U normally use in battle - therefore - U dont "waste" Ur spell turn.

EDIT
****! I started to play with that mod, choose warrior and I dont have counterattack skill!! Same problem is with paladin - I dont have holy armor skill! WTF?!

ocsisajt
10-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Warrior class:
Might Runes: 3% Chance for 2 Might Runes (~18 might runes for the whole game)
Mind Runes: 3% Chance for 3 Mind Runes (~27 mind runes for the whole game)
Magic Runes: 5% Chance for 4 Magic Runes (~60 magic runes for the whole game)


Thank you for your great mod, but if you don't mind i'm gonna edit your mod only for my pleasure :) i don't want redistribute your work under my name, would be pretty disgusting, so don't be afraid... :)

i've found already the string that responsible for random runes after battle, but I'm still looking for the "~XX Y runes for the whole game" string. I would ask respectfully for the string that i'm looking for. That would be definitely saved my day :D

Thank you for advance.

Cheers, Ocsisajt.

ocsisajt
10-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Oooh and I’ve Always wanted to ask from you:

Have you ever thought of migrating PCBUN's Mod?
>Click< (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=14741)

that would be awesome!!! :)

Thank you.

Cheers, Ocsisajt.

The Rider
10-19-2010, 01:00 PM
:)
What you are looking for is not in the mod.
Open orcs.kfc with rar/zip program, find the file logic_hero.lua and go to line 287
The strings with the runes for every class when leveling up look like this:
rune_war={"6,4,2","5,5,2","6,3,3","7,4,1"}
rune_pal={"3,6,3","2,7,3","3,5,4","4,6,2"}
rune_mag={"2,4,6","1,5,6","2,3,7","3,4,5"}

there are 4 columns of numbers for every class, they are for levels 1-4 then the string just repeats itself. The first number in every string is for might runes, then mind runes, the third number is for magic runes.

ocsisajt
10-19-2010, 04:12 PM
:)
What you are looking for is not in the mod.
Open orcs.kfc with rar/zip program, find the file logic_hero.lua and go to line 287
The strings with the runes for every class when leveling up look like this:
rune_war={"6,4,2","5,5,2","6,3,3","7,4,1"}
rune_pal={"3,6,3","2,7,3","3,5,4","4,6,2"}
rune_mag={"2,4,6","1,5,6","2,3,7","3,4,5"}

there are 4 columns of numbers for every class, they are for levels 1-4 then the string just repeats itself. The first number in every string is for might runes, then mind runes, the third number is for magic runes.

Thank you very much, Sir! :cool:

You've avoided gently my migration question :) (no offense, though^^)

hasim
10-28-2010, 06:39 AM
Both mod_equilibrium_orcs.kfs and eng_skills.txt should be in the Kings Bounty Armored Princess\sessions\orcs directory

Hello and thank you for the mod. But, should it be in the directory as you say or in a mods folder that I should create there (as per usual)?

hasim
10-28-2010, 06:59 AM
Hello and thank you for the mod. But, should it be in the directory as you say or in a mods folder that I should create there (as per usual)?

Heh - nevermind I tried it :) and it works (does not need to be in a "mods" folder as per your instructions)

Ancentre
11-23-2010, 10:10 PM
great mod, i thought the balance was great and the new skills are nice too.
there is a problem with the inflow skill, after getting one level of it, any increase in rage is set to 100, 200, 300 based on level (i think), the rage fills to max with each attack is what i meant.

Rudi
11-24-2010, 09:40 AM
there is a problem with the inflow skill, after getting one level of it, any increase in rage is set to 100, 200, 300 based on level (i think), the rage fills to max with each attack is what i meant.
You can fix it by setting the values of rage skill in the skills.txt file in the mod file
back to 1,2,3 as is in the unmodded file. I don't know if The Rider fixed it, probably not ,but that's really all about it

Ancentre
11-24-2010, 03:52 PM
got it working, thanks

Fatt_Shade
03-07-2011, 04:26 PM
I tryed this mod, and i like it allott. Gj for all mode `Rider`, great ideas for bonus runes.
And for balancing bonus Attack Defence for classe`s. Before it was max 54Att, 62Def, and +80Int !!! This is with best items, and Wanderer spells, but nontheless just not right for Mage class to have so much higher bonus.
As for rage inflow from skill, i managed to fix it as `Rudi` said.
Also found mistake on 3 lvl Onslaught skill, it`it cost 0 runes, so same as fixing Rage skill, go to skills.txt, and find `Rush` in 3lvl set from 0,0,0 , to 10,3,0 as in originall seting of KB-AP.
Sugestion for some changes ( i did it, you ppl decide for yourself) :
1) Dark commander to +2 , +4/1 , +6/2 Atack,Defence/Intiative
2) Quick draw +2 , +4/1 , +6/2 Atack/Intiative
3) To change requirements for class specific skills,, i didnt do this cause cant find where to change it. For Bloodthirst it needs 7 skill, for Resurection 6, and for Higher magic only 4. Not really balanced :-(
4) Prayer remove bonus Def. This way Paladin class get same bonuses for all attributes.

And for my question, if any1 know`s where and how to change unit skills to be affected from acumulated runes, as for Rune mages resurection from mind runes. I`d like to set paladins resurection, and fauns plant heal and similar unit skills, but cant find where those skills are set in mod files.
All Orcs get bonuse form adrenaline in Might skill tree, sumoning units get bonuse form Mage skill tree - Summoner. So i thought to ballance tihngs for Mind skill tree.
Maybe this would be changing alott, but i just dont want to lose time in battles and skip ronuds to use rage so i can to cast mana recharge so i can phantom paladins, to resurect fallen troops . . . it`s not imposible, i just dont like ot waste time on that (example against some heroes, or boss fights i lose units from Gayser spell, or Armagedon, so after killing main threat i cast fear/blind/sheep on some weak unit, and in next rounds cast phantom to resurect units while battle itself is already over just prolonged). Some might say it`s cheating and saving mana, but it`s no diferent from Warrior Bloodthirst skill, and perma 40% of rage. And in this mode after battles we get those mana source witch are ridiculus ( got 14 of them, on 21 lvl ) 500 mana is just to much :-) How to lower that ? Say to 150-200 maybe.
I`m not sure how this will effect enemy troops, as for no rune bonuses for them.
If any1 can help me get this done, send PM or reply here.

Zechnophobe
03-08-2011, 01:14 AM
just glancing at this. I'm not sure I understand the point. Just giving larger bonuses for skills seems like it would just make the game flat out easier. I could do that via difficulty setting pretty easily. What is the drive behind using or creating this mod?

Fatt_Shade
03-08-2011, 10:05 AM
@ Zechnophobe
Why would you say this is cheating mode ???
`Rider` just balanced it out. In original game for all skills you could get +9Att, +11Def, +18Int ( overpowered Mage class by me, we could make Warrior with lower Att then Int !!! ), with this mode you get same attribute bonues for al classes if you want.
Might tree +12Att, +9Def and bunch or rage, Mind tree +6Att, +9Def ( i sugessted to lower to 6 ), +6Int and some mana and rage, and Magic tree +12Int, 20 more mana then before and +18scrolls tihs is bigest change but not so much of cheat ( how are those scrolls important in ? we got more mana by this change more scrolls are just so you can buy spells you find in shops/castles and dont want to destroy one`s you already have in spell book). So all in all new skills are just balanced as they should be for each class.
Other big change are bonuses after battles, more runes and potions of rage/mana/mana source. More runes are so we can get those skills we want (if you dont want to just odnt use all tohse runes/potions). I played Mage and had more then 20 mana sources, and +50 mana/rage potions in inventory just didnt use them. maybe it`s cheat if oyu sell all tohse potions and get more ogld then without moding, i dont think so.
So it is true this make game a bit easier, but think about what i said. In what degree is it cheating ? All those bonus runes/potion/cristalls you can ignore in your invertory. For lvling up skills you can write somewhere how much runes you got after battles and dont use them. Potions you sell, that gold wont make big diference , and for magic cristalls you get form alchemy . . . dont know cant sell them, cant destroy but you can get same from destroying items with Neatness skills so it`s not so big change.
All in all, Rider only balanced skills nothing more, and for me it`s ok should had been done by developers (they f...ed up with Final score at end of game also).
If you still think it`s cheating say what exactly so we can discuss (im back playing this game, so i check forum here from time to time :-)

Jah
03-08-2011, 11:21 AM
So it is true this make game a bit easier, but think about what i said.


All in all, Rider only balanced skills nothing more

"Balancing" suggests that the original, unmodded game had some kind of imbalance that needed fixing. Are you saying that the unmodded game, even at Easy difficulty, is too hard?

Fatt_Shade
03-08-2011, 12:55 PM
Not `unbalanced` as in hard.
I said Rider balanced stat bonuses form skills in dieferent skill tree`s. You get same amount of Att Def & Int bonuses, and mana/rage from all skills. He gave us more runes so if you want you can get those skills, if not, leave runes unused.
Before this mode with proper items, and build max Int was 84 i think, and max Att just 54. So with Mage and Higher magic you could 20K+ direct dmg with spells, on other side no Warrior could do that with dragon. Max is 3200-3800 with lava call, witch compared to Mage spell dmg outputt is nothing, considering that cost 80+ rage and only usable every 3 turns. I know about waking dragon spell, but that for Warrior and Paladin class just waste turn for some other buff/suport spell.
This mod gave us more dmg for pure fighting players in bonus +6Att in might tree just Warrior class), and +3/+6 Att/Dmg in mind. That is all that is new. Bonus runes after battles - dont use them , bonus potions after battles - dont use them, bonus cristals after battles - dont use them.
All i see changed in this mod is +3Att (+9 for Warrior), +6Def, and some rage/mana. Rage is more use for Mage/Paladin, and mana for Warrior.
I think you`ll agree that imposible/no loss is norlam these days, this bonus mana and rage is just so we dont wast time in skiping turns to resurect fallen units with fantoms. + bonus rage means nothing in Boss fights like before, and those fights were most tedious to resurect units (you leave some pathetic range/no retaliation enemy alive to resurect. And i`ll summ it all , in this mode i dont see cheating only shorter time playing battles to resurect units, and +3/+6 Att/Def for all classes. All those after battles bonuses can be discarded, cause you simply dont have to use them.

Jah
03-08-2011, 02:04 PM
Before this mode with proper items, and build max Int was 84 i think, and max Att just 54. So with Mage and Higher magic you could 20K+ direct dmg with spells, on other side no Warrior could do that with dragon. Max is 3200-3800 with lava call, witch compared to Mage spell dmg outputt is nothing, considering that cost 80+ rage and only usable every 3 turns. I know about waking dragon spell, but that for Warrior and Paladin class just waste turn for some other buff/suport spell.
This mod gave us more dmg for pure fighting players in bonus +6Att in might tree just Warrior class), and +3/+6 Att/Dmg in mind. That is all that is new.

So if I understand you correctly, you're arguing that pure fighting types needed some kind of extra boost, because they were underpowered compared to mages? A warrior with Lava Call may not be able to inflict as much damage as a mage with maxed INT using some damage-dealing spell, but that comparison alone doesn't say much about class balance.


Bonus runes after battles - dont use them

If you have rune mages in your army (as most no-loss players seem to have), you really can't "not use" them. Even if you don't use them for buying new skills, they'll still be there to boost your rune mages.


I think you`ll agree that imposible/no loss is norlam these days, this bonus mana and rage is just so we dont wast time in skiping turns to resurect fallen units with fantoms. + bonus rage means nothing in Boss fights like before, and those fights were most tedious to resurect units

It could be used as a "convenience tweak" for Impossible/no-loss games the way you described, but not everyone plays Impossible/no-loss, and even in those games, the same bonuses could be used in a number of different, arguably overpowered ways.

So while it may be possible to use the mod in a way that doesn't significantly lower difficulty (which I believe is what the "cheating" comment referred to), I think it offers rather unnecessary opportunities for it - in other words, you have to constantly remind yourself not to "cheat" by keeping track of how many extra runes and crystals you have and making sure you only use that extra mana to resurrect your troops faster at the end of a battle. For the purpose of convenience and faster resurrection, I think the changes are too heavy-handed.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying you or anyone else shouldn't be using this mod - after all, KB is a single-player game and anyone can enjoy it any way they like. Personally, I just feel that for me, this particular mod would break more than it would fix.

Zechnophobe
03-08-2011, 06:17 PM
cheating


Uh... Cheating? I didn't say anything about that.

Unless the original posts notes aren't right, this mod just increases all areas. More attack, more defense, more rage, more mana. Nothing goes down anywhere. How is that balance?

And more runes? That's somehow not making it easier?

Fatt_Shade
03-08-2011, 10:11 PM
So if I understand you correctly, you're arguing that pure fighting types needed some kind of extra boost, because they were underpowered compared to mages? A warrior with Lava Call may not be able to inflict as much damage as a mage with maxed INT using some damage-dealing spell, but that comparison alone doesn't say much about class balance.
Ok i compared bad with hign Int spells for Mage, and Warrior, i meant to say mid/late game when you get class specific skills it it get even. More rage form Bloodthirst isn`t strong as double casting with mage.
I dont think pure fighting class need special boost, i just say it makes things even ground. In original setings was +9/+12/+18 Att Def Int, here is +18 all = it`s balanced.

If you have rune mages in your army (as most no-loss players seem to have), you really can't "not use" them. Even if you don't use them for buying new skills, they'll still be there to boost your rune mages

Yes it is bonus for Rune mages, but it`s caped to 20 runes. You can trade runes around on Montero Might for Mind/Magic and back again untill you waste enough runes. So having 20 or 50 reserve runes wont make any difference, Might doesnt mean much as Mind and Magic for him. And more runes for revive is same as casting 1 or more illusions = 1+ rounds in battle. Thus i said bonus mana shorten that, and no more wasting time just to get no loss. As many ppl save some weak units, and skip turns to ressurect, i think this bonus mana just make skipping rounds obsolete. If you know you can finish battle with no loss, and only thing you need is to wait couple turns to regen mana, and cast illusion this mode helps you with that. Only problem are Magic runes, for 30% sheep on target, so i must agree here it is a bit of a problem.
No loss doesnt make any difference in scoring in game (days played, lvl of hero and quests). This mode doesnt get you next things : shorter traveling time, more lvl for hero (no bonus exp, or leadership), better items, or better units. All you get is really +3Att and +6Def ( +3Att/Def from Absolute balance isnt cheap so it`s optional).
Ppl who play for 7day, 63lvl, 92(or 93)quests usualy save game before going to new islands and scout for units and items, then plan in advance way around and then load, and replay every 30 battles to get Ancient knowledge scrolls from Elenthel. To me this way of playing is more wrong then using this mode. This mode wont make it much easier, only shorten your battles.

Uh... Cheating? I didn't say anything about that.
Unless the original posts notes aren't right, this mod just increases all areas. More attack, more defense, more rage, more mana. Nothing goes down anywhere. How is that balance?
And more runes? That's somehow not making it easier?

Sry, my bad for `cheating`. Didnt get your post before.
You dont get MORE anything, you only get same amount of everything. Thus name of mode `Equilibrium` :-)
As for bonus runes i said above if you really need to spend only runes you get regularly you can write somewhere how much runes you get every lvl, it`s easier then remembering bonuses after every battle. So far only unit that is dependent of runes is Rune mage, so i cant say it`s so much easier with this mode then original settings of game.

That is why i asked about changing other heal/resurrect units. If you play this mode, you either have bunch unused runes that you must hire some poor peasant to carry them around, or use them for lvling up skills. If you dont use runes my idea is to make them work something for you. Either to get Might runes to boost up dmg from unit abilitys, Mind for heal/resurrect for Paladins, Fauns . . . , for Magic runes maybe Evil beholders Hypnotise, or Druid`s charm.
Before dissing me that it would be overpowered think about this : you use runes to get lets say Dark commander, so it means your runes boost all undead, or Summoner you used runes to boost every unit that have some summoning ability.
In this expansion developers get new unit Rune mage who get bonuses from your unused runes. On 1 side you have some skills that change stats for group of units all undead, or all archers, and then you get ONLY 1 unit that is boosted by unused runes. Am i only 1 that think this is wrong ?
I posted this question on 1 more tread, but if you ppl have some idea how to change this tell me. Cause i cant figure out how to get this change to unit ability`s, to be dependent from unused runes in % like for Rune mage.

Jah
03-09-2011, 07:41 AM
Ok i compared bad with hign Int spells for Mage, and Warrior, i meant to say mid/late game when you get class specific skills it it get even. More rage form Bloodthirst isn`t strong as double casting with mage.
I dont think pure fighting class need special boost, i just say it makes things even ground. In original setings was +9/+12/+18 Att Def Int, here is +18 all = it`s balanced.

But then, mages start out with lower leadership and gain ATT and DEF slower, and at low levels, the difference in spellcasting abilities isn't really significant enough to compensate for that. In that regard, the classes are already balanced: Warriors have an easier start, which is why it's only fair that their late-game abilities aren't as powerful as the mages'.


This mode wont make it much easier, only shorten your battles.

...assuming that you use the mod precisely the way you described, and I kind of doubt that was the author's intention; if it was, there would have been no need to add extra runes, extra crystals or extra potions.

Like I said, it may be possible to use the mod in a way that doesn't decrease difficulty too much, but since that requires you to consciously restrain yourself from using many of the things it offers, I can't agree with the notion that it wasn't designed to make the game easier.

Fatt_Shade
03-09-2011, 02:47 PM
But then, mages start out with lower leadership and gain ATT and DEF slower, and at low levels, the difference in spellcasting abilities isn't really significant enough to compensate for that. In that regard, the classes are already balanced: Warriors have an easier start, which is why it's only fair that their late-game abilities aren't as powerful as the mages'.


Early game/low lvls this mod doesn`t change anything, bonuses on Att/Deff are only available around mid game +Att for Warrior for class skill. Or from absolute balance, but that is for all classes. I dont think it`s so much stronger then before, compared to Mage higher Int and double casting.
As for spell casting early game, warrior have none his magic rune income is pathetic. Therefore some medal`s are harder to get for him comparing to Pally/Mage (this i mean without changes in mode).
Lets try this out, i think you`ll agree most important medal is Grand strategy asap 3 lvl is playing normally around changing from Rusty to Verona, that is 50 battles no loss, in those 50 battles you have chance to get bonus runes 2-4 might, 3-6 mind, 8-10 magic. For all that trouble you get 1k leadership which was plan in beginning, and maybe 1 more skill lvl depending how much runes you get and what skills you plan to lvlup.
So early-game you`ll get probably 1 skill lvl for bonus runes , mid-game most ppl get heavy battle control with phantom, summons from units, and take skills they need so no much unused runes to boots Rune mages ( ok you used runes from bonus after battles, that can be easing things a bit), but again late-game you`ll have your planed army on which you decided some items to help out, and for changes in skills biggest is for warrior class and that is only +6Att for which i cant agree is so stronger then in original game.

On other topic still no suggestions for helping me with changing unit abilities :-(

Zechnophobe
03-09-2011, 10:36 PM
Heroism: +2,+4,+6 Attack (was +1, +3, +6)
Resistance: +2, +4, +6 Defense (was +1, +3, +5)
Anger: 20%/+2, 40%/+4, 60%/+8 Rage Increase/Maximum Rage (was 20%,40%,60% rage flow increase)
The Power of Darkness: +3, +5/1, +7/2 Attack AND Defense/Initiative of all Undead (was +3, +5/1, +7/2 Attack/Initiative)
Bloodlust: +6/+2, +12/+4, +18/+6 Maximum Rage/Attack (was +5,+10,+15 maximum rage)

Counter-Attack: now in the Might Tree. Level 2 and 3 now give no retaliation ability to all allies for the 1st/2nd round.

MIND
Prayer: +3%/+1, +5%/+2, +7%/+3 Critical Chance/Defense (was +3%,+5%,+7% Critical Chance)
Absolute Balance: +4/+1, +8/+2, +12/+3 Mana and Rage/Attack and Defense (was +4,+8,+12 Mana and Rage)
Dragon Voice: +1/+6, +1/+12, +2/+18 Morale to animals and dragons/Increases Maximum Rage (was +1,+1,+2 Morale)
Trophy now costs only 5,5,5 mind runes, not 5+1,5+1,5+1 mind+magic runes

Holy Armor: now in the Mind Tree. Increases the magic, fire, poison and astral resistance with 30%, 30%, 50% for the first 1,2,2 rounds.

MAGIC
Linguistics: +2, +4, +6 Intellect (was +1, +3, +6 Intellect)
Order Magic: +6, +9, +12 Maximum Scrolls (was with no scolls bonus)
Distortion Magic: +2, +4, +6 Maximum Mana and Scrolls (was with no mana/scrolls bonus)
Chaos Magic: +6, +9, +12 Maximum Mana (was witn no mana bonus)
Thesis: +2/+8, +4/+16, +6/+24 Intellect/Maximum Mana (was +2/+7, +4/+14, +6/+21 Intellect/Maximum Mana)


So, Fatt_Shade, I'm probably just misunderstanding. But you keep saying there isn't 'just more'. I don't have the Mod installed so you have more information than I do.

All the changes are listed above, each one shows skills being enhanced, and none show them getting weaker. Can you please explain what penalties exist that offset these bonus'?

Jah
03-10-2011, 07:47 AM
Early game/low lvls this mod doesn`t change anything

That's my whole point. The game is currently pretty well balanced in that warriors are stronger in the early game, while mages become more powerful in the late game. If you're going to give warriors some extra bonuses in the mid-/late game, then in order to maintain balance, you need to either give them penalties in the early game, or give mages a similar boost for low levels. Otherwise you're just making warriors stronger in relation to mages, which is not what I would call "balancing".

Fatt_Shade
03-10-2011, 10:19 AM
So, Fatt_Shade, I'm probably just misunderstanding. But you keep saying there isn't 'just more'. I don't have the Mod installed so you have more information than I do.

All the changes are listed above, each one shows skills being enhanced, and none show them getting weaker. Can you please explain what penalties exist that offset these bonus'?

Yes skills are enhanced, but to degree +1Att/Def/Int early game of 1%2 lvl of Heroism, Resistance, Linguistic and cost same as before. It grows linearly=balanced. You get some more rage/mana/scrolls (read below for that balance). And for getting weaker skills there is skill distribution in respective tree`s - to get Bloodthirst you need 7 other skills, for Resurrection you need 6, and for High magic only 4.
As for after battles bonus rewards all except runes were obsolete for me, finished game with 30 mana wells, 300 crystals, and with 50 mana/rage potions. i used only runes and them after 40th lvl, cause didnt know what to take any more. Didn`t used rune mages, so bonus for their talents wasn`t in question ( i had Princess, Darkness, Undead and Insanity sets so realy didn`t know which combo to pick :-)

That's my whole point. The game is currently pretty well balanced in that warriors are stronger in the early game, while mages become more powerful in the late game. If you're going to give warriors some extra bonuses in the mid-/late game, then in order to maintain balance, you need to either give them penalties in the early game, or give mages a similar boost for low levels. Otherwise you're just making warriors stronger in relation to mages, which is not what I would call "balancing".

I played Mage impos with this mode so i`ll tell you form that example : for bonus rage/mana from Anger/Magic skills they are evenly distributed you get more mana scrolls for Mage, then rage for Warrior. So it`s really easier for Mage early then before (for achieving medals) , and Warrior get some bonus later in game with +6Att from Bloodthirst. It`s not as strenghtning Warrior, as is helping Mage early, both classes get some bonus.
Extra runes helps out all classes, no difference there.

As for making higher score then other players without this mode it`s not possible. You cant finish game in less then 7 days, with all quests, and 60+ lvl cause it doesn`t affects exp gain, or traveling time. So you cant get more points in the end=no cheating. This mode only give you easier way to no loss if you really want that 0 casualties on high score screen. I`m defending this mode because finished game with both Warrior and Mage impossible/no loss in original game, with preety much same early mid game (royal thorns trackers for sumoning frenzy, inquisitor archmage for suporting until Rusty and hope for some dragons, from Verona 90% players go paladins/rune mage phantom tactics, or go with boring 2 repair droid 1 guard-those arent units, they are kitchen appliances :-D . . . pretty much generic). Now i tried this to have some fun and different unit tactics : girl power with Fauns and Ents, full Orc army for adrenalin frenzy, dwarf army with alchemist set-got it with Warrior and it`s hilarious, hordes or droids rolling across battlefield . . . for demons there are no bonuses except +1morale, but they are still bitches to resurrect.
To sum it up who dont like changes - dont use this mode, if you wnat to try different things with some units you havent used before, go for it.

On different note, i found where to change unit talent for rune mages and in sessions/orcs/orcs.rar runemage.lng file, and it scared me. Does that needs to be done for any unit that have active talent ? Holy s..t !!!
If yes, i`m dropping my idea for bonus from runes, to other units.

Edit : I found 2 more errors,.
1) In neatness skill same as Anger remove 100 , 200, 300 from skill.txt this way Mechanic get 100% bonus from lvling that skill. Instead curent numbers leave only 10, 20, 30 so he`ll receive 10/20/30% in mechanics sumoning as in original.
2) Other is problem with onslaught and getting adrenaline distributed to Orc troops, it`s not working. I have only 1 orc unit , and 3 lvl onslaught so it should get 30 adrenaline, but i`m not getting any on start of battle. How to fix this ?

I think i found problem with Onslaught. If some1 can try to find sesion\orcs\orcs.kfc\skills.lua
in that file there is string :

function skill_rush(name,level)
local bonus = skill_power(name,2,level-1)
if level >1 then bonus=bonus-skill_power(name,2,level-2) end
local cur_rage=Logic.hero_lu_item("rage","limit")
Logic.hero_lu_item("rage","limit",cur_rage+bonus)
return true
end

which define bonus initiative, and rage from that skill, but i`m missing part local_bonus2 . . . for defining adrenaline distribution to orc troops in army. Pls copy other part of string and send it to me by PM. I`m not rly good with moding, but i think that should fix it. In eng_skills.lng i found description for functioning of this skill, but in skills.lua that part is missing.
Thx in advance ppl :-)

Zechnophobe
03-11-2011, 12:27 AM
Well, I think theres is some miscommunication here, I'll try to clear this up in a nice way.

There are two ways you can talk about balance. One is the human against the AI here. That is, is the challenge of the game perserved with a given change? The other is 'is the challenge of the game equal between game choices'.

I believe that you think this is 'more balanced' because it is making some classes stronger to bring them in line. That is, warrior gets stronger, Mage gets only a little stronger.

But does that address the concern of IS the fundamental challenge of the game preserved? Because it is not. You spend the same runes as you did pre-mod, but you get more rage, attack, defense, whatever. The game is then easier because you have more of these things at your disposal.

Considering that I don't find the game in need of less challenge, and in fact find ways to make it HARDER not EASIER, this mod seems very bad.

Also, your comment:

"It grows linearly=balanced."

Is false. Linear does not mean balanced. Nor does non-linear mean unbalanced. Consider, for example, that the cost of each rank isn't the same. THe first +1 attack you get is 4 might, 1 mind. The next two is 8 Might 2 mind. The last three are 12might, 3 mind. These are actually the same runes per attack cost, but broken up into different chunks.

By making the first point of attack cheaper, it lets you unlock the tier two skills earlier, while maintaining the same relative cost for a point of attack.

Fatt_Shade
03-11-2011, 09:44 AM
There are two ways you can talk about balance. One is the human against the AI here. That is, is the challenge of the game perserved with a given change? The other is 'is the challenge of the game equal between game choices'.


If you check on first page of this tread you`ll see mod creator said he made this mode for fun, not to preserve the way things are in original setup.
He didn`t thrived to preserve anything, he wanted to have fun in game without need to constantly cast phantom to revive units you cant buy while playing certain islands. Yes you get bonus on Att/Def, so you have stronger units thus less need to resurrect them-no more phantom casting rounds in battles-no more wasting time that way.


"It grows linearly=balanced."
Is false. Linear does not mean balanced. Nor does non-linear mean unbalanced. Consider, for example, that the cost of each rank isn't the same. THe first +1 attack you get is 4 might, 1 mind. The next two is 8 Might 2 mind. The last three are 12might, 3 mind. These are actually the same runes per attack cost, but broken up into different chunks.

Yea i made mistake here, didnt mean linearly, but evenly. Same bonus for every lvl of skill. I said balanced cause this way you get same bonus for every lvl, like with rage/mana gain from Anger/Wisdom or magic dmg from Destroyer/Summoner. Before no 1 lvl +1Att/Def/Int pretty weak, 2 so-so, and 3 lvl is great, now every lvl is usefull.
I`m thinking doing same for Learning/Healer skills, now in those for first lvl you get same bonus as for 2&3 lvl`s together, it`s seems uneven.

The Rider started working on similar mode, with some changes here and interesting ideas http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=17260 but just dessapeared around middle of november, i wonder is he alright.

Any hints for fixing my problem with Onslaught , and no adrenaline on start of battle for my Orcs ? I remember it worked in KB-CW 1.2, but since i patched to 1.31 seem that skill doesnt work anymore. Havent noticed it with Mage cause never used Orcs, but it`s boring playing them without it :-(

affe111
03-26-2011, 11:04 AM
Here is the mod, changed few things in the description in the first post.
Unfortunately for some reason the file with the descriptions of the skills that is in the mod_equilibrium_orcs.kfs doesnt work. To make it work, you have to open the mod file and to extract the eng_skills.txt in the same directory.

Both mod_equilibrium_orcs.kfs and eng_skills.txt should be in the Kings Bounty Armored Princess\sessions\orcs directory

Do I need to start a new game to get this mod working?

Fatt_Shade
03-26-2011, 02:36 PM
@affe111
No you dont have to restart game to get this mod working. All changes in skills are aplied to your hero when place mod in game folder/orcs/mods ,but you`ll miss bonus runes and mana/rage potions that are probable in % after battles, and that is bigest change in game in this mode. But if you`r not to far off in game go for it, anything less then 50 battles wont make much difference.
But chech my other posts in this tread, i played this mode 2 times so far, and found couple of errors :
1) in Onslaught skill 3 lvl, there is no runes cost,, change in skills.txt
2) Neatness skill change on lvl`s from 100/200/300 to 10/20/30 that`s % of boost to mechanic`s creating droid ability
3) if you want to go Orc army, Onslaught skill start working from 2 lvl, distribution of adrenaline to orc units at start of battle. Still no idea why it`s not working on 1 lvl though.

affe111
03-27-2011, 01:27 PM
Thank you!
I started a new game though.

gimpz
06-29-2011, 10:14 PM
I like that you are trying to balance the talents by evening out the rate at which you get the bonuses and I also like the change to Voice of the Dragon because now it's actually useful. But it's too overpowered to add all those att/def bonuses. If you want those traits you should simply invest in the skills that grant them. The changes to troops are good though.

gimpz
06-29-2011, 10:30 PM
As for making higher score then other players without this mode it`s not possible. You cant finish game in less then 7 days, with all quests, and 60+ lvl cause it doesn`t affects exp gain, or traveling time. So you cant get more points in the end=no cheating


Who cares about points nowadays? You play a game because it's fun, not to compare to other players who might have completely different ambitions than you. If you want to compete, this is not the game. The days when points mattered were on the 80s with games like Bubble Bubble and Tetris. :P

Dart25
11-06-2013, 07:42 PM
this new skill treee seems not to work on me got steam version other mechanics seems to work is it possibel to get it some how to work?

i know that its pretty old mode but still hope some one maybe can help me