Kiting on impossible?

[Sanctuary]

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I keep reading about how some people are able to kite monsters away to get navigational charts for quite a long time before having to fight their first battle. Is this entirely luck based and do these people keep resetting until they are able to do it? I am only on Bolo, but I cannot get beyond that area because the chart is being guarded by an impossible pack in a narrow area that won't kite more than half of an inch before stopping. Again, is this luck based or is there some secret to pulling these packs out farther than what they would normally go? To clarify, I already have the rest of the available charts from Scarlet, Rusty and Debir.

[Razorflame]

that one is almost impossible

but doable

the trick is

u get very close
when u see the red marks on the enemy
pause

unpause move a little inch back

pause


(loop)

[Sanctuary]

Right, that's what I tried over and over again. I would move up to the point to where it would move close enough to almost hit me, then click around a fourth of an inch behind me to move and when I would move the pack would not and would then simply sit there a while and reset. The robot boss in the labyrinth seemed to be in a similar placement, but I was able to kite it out and grab the amulet without having to fight anything, and this should be the same but doesn't seem to be.

[N3MES1S]

Its not the same. The robot boss in the labyrinth has different path rutes that the troop u talking about. The troop u are talking about is almost impossible to kite, because sometimes it wont move, even if u are touching it xD. And if it moves, it will move only for a very short range, so that let u only a bit margin of maneouver. I tell u, i only did that once, i tried 6 more times without success, and now i directly fight the troop.

[Razorflame]

i have succeeded twice in getting that troop away:p

but i had to reload couple of times

but it was just for fun to see if it's possible to do
now i just fight it and own him:P

[Sanctuary]

I spent over an hour trying to move that pack out and it simply cannot be done, so I'm wondering if we are playing different versions of the game or something. The pack simply will not move ever beyond a certain point and there are plenty of spots like this all over the various islands, so I really have no idea how people are "kiting" their way so far unless like I said they are getting really lucky with item placement.

These packs also cannot be beaten when they say "impossible" as a low level Mage without phantom or any really good units. I'm at the point where there's absolutely nothing left to level up on that wouldn't cause a loss of at least one unit that I won't be able to get back and my group is pretty horrible. All I have to chose from are Royal Snakes, Paladins (no more than 7 were sold), one Ogre, 5 Mages, Inquisitors (that can only rez a max of 3 regular Priests or 2 snakes) and a bunch of Droids. Not only is that not a high damage setup, I lose out over time through attrition of mana and turns even though they can "tank" the time away up to around turn 15 or so, but not much dies.

[Zechnophobe]

There are tricks to it, as have been described. I am surprised you are unable to get to Rusty Anchor Island. there are multiple locations for this to show up.

1) Scarlet Wind, up the path on the left, in the woods on the right side of the path.

2) Bola, Right near to where you spawn when you get here, down the beach from the Barbarian who lost his wife.

3) Bola, right outside the house of the Barbarian wife. This is the only one that doesn't require either advanced kiting or combat to get two.


Both of the first two are pretty small battles though, and you shouldn't have a hard time with them for the most part. The units you describe are about the best you can generally get that early in the game. How much leadership do you have, and how full are your stacks?

[Razorflame]

well assuming he kitted as much as possible his army got weaker in the long run

kitting is bad
since u leave yourself weaker

it better to do as many battles as possible(unles they are really impossible i would suggest battle as much as u can and extend your spells as much as possible and rage also ofcourse)

[Sanctuary]

There are tricks to it, as have been described. I am surprised you are unable to get to Rusty Anchor Island. there are multiple locations for this to show up.

1) Scarlet Wind, up the path on the left, in the woods on the right side of the path.

2) Bola, Right near to where you spawn when you get here, down the beach from the Barbarian who lost his wife.

3) Bola, right outside the house of the Barbarian wife. This is the only one that doesn't require either advanced kiting or combat to get two.


Both of the first two are pretty small battles though, and you shouldn't have a hard time with them for the most part. The units you describe are about the best you can generally get that early in the game. How much leadership do you have, and how full are your stacks?

I have been able to get to Rusty, that wasn't the problem, I couldn't get to Verona. I had Rusty, Bolo and Scarlet. I was trying to get to Verona and the map (unless it was a duplicate) was near a shrine to the left where the road forks after you go past the first flag/shrine. It also seems like certain cretatures that are the "leader" of the pack kite very differently than others.

My first attempt I had Griffins and they actually moved (still couldn't pull them all the way out though), but the next two games I had a Beholder and then a Berserker, neither of which would move more than almost a few pixels and then simply would sit there in my face. Sometimes they wouldn't even move at all until they were at a range where they could run up and hit me without me being able to move. There's a very similar area in the graveyard with the parrot in it where it's even more narrow and the pack just doesn't move until it would hit you. I started over and yeah, it's entirely luck based. On this playthrough I got an Ogre again from a scroll, was easily able to get the Verona map and now have Demonologists and Royal Griffins with Target. Neither of which were available in my previous games and I also ended up running around collecting enough cash before my very first battle to pick up the ancient amulet that was in the starting castle.

[Razorflame]

it's possible to kite all


some are just harder

u just have to "hug" it:P
(i tried it on different playthrough and everything was kiteable)

indeed some are very hard
but nonetheless possible
but kiting is weak
:)
only use it as last resort

[Sanctuary]

it's possible to kite all


some are just harder

u just have to "hug" it:P
(i tried it on different playthrough and everything was kiteable)

indeed some are very hard
but nonetheless possible
but kiting is weak
:)
only use it as last resort

Yeah well I'm not entirely sure how you're supposed to be able to beat packs that have a lot of Beholders/Archers or a Cyclops or two without having a larger army or enough leadership to be able to pick up the tier 4-5 units when all that's available is a very small pack of Inquisitors. If all I were trying to do was beat the game on impossible I wouldn't kite much at all, but I'm going for no loss and with weak units against some packs on completely open maps it literally seems "impossible" without getting a few levels and flags.

well assuming he kitted as much as possible his army got weaker in the long run

kitting is bad
since u leave yourself weaker

How so? I'm just running around gathering experience and flags before my first fight. What exactly am I missing out on that would leave me weaker when I'm not losing units? I'm not going for record time on my first impossible no loss playthrough, so I can worry about it when I attempt that. I want to actually beat it no loss first.

[N3MES1S]

Hmm, are u sure the map to verona is not on Scarlett? cuz i always find it on scarlett.
Sometimes kitting is not possible, u need to fight the troop. If u didnt find the map to Verona on Scarlett, the only place u will find it is on Bolo, and u will need to fight that troop to pick it up.

[N3MES1S]

Yeah well I'm not entirely sure how you're supposed to be able to beat packs that have a lot of Beholders/Archers or a Cyclops or two without having a larger army or enough leadership to be able to pick up the tier 4-5 units when all that's available is a very small pack of Inquisitors. If all I were trying to do was beat the game on impossible I wouldn't kite much at all, but I'm going for no loss and with weak units against some packs on completely open maps it literally seems "impossible" without getting a few levels and flags.



How so? I'm just running around gathering experience and flags before my first fight. What exactly am I missing out on that would leave me weaker when I'm not losing units? I'm not going for record time on my first impossible no loss playthrough, so I can worry about it when I attempt that. I want to actually beat it no loss first.


I think Sanctuary didnt mean that. Cuz kitting is Basic on AP for advance on hard and impossible modes. If Sanctuary loses units when kitting, hes doing something wrong. Im tired of play games on impossible difficulty and i always kitie the islands as much as possible. And i never lose any unit.

[Zechnophobe]

Okay, first of all, there are 3 (I think) maps to Verona that you might exist for your (maybe four).

1) Scarlet Wind. Near to where Richard is hanging out.
2) Bola. On the side of the path between the barbarian 'village' and the area with the Wife.
3) Rusty Anchor, in the little mini graveyard
4) ?? I think there is another option in Rusty Anchor on the little sandlot to the left of where you spawn there.


You do NOT need to KITE, necessarily, to beat these forces with no loss, but you may need to use better strategies. Remember that no losses isn't just about having more troops, it's about using troops that don't die.

You have ogres, do you have stoneskin? Could you combine stoneskin, mana spring, and heal to keep them alive (And spam mystic eggs?) This is sometimes an option. Do you have fear to keep bad guys off your ogres for a loong time? Could you phantom paladins for a lot of healing?

Sometimes less is more, don't bring crap units that aren't going to help, and fight a long, but careful, battle. It can work.

[Sanctuary]

Okay, first of all, there are 3 (I think) maps to Verona that you might exist for your (maybe four).

1) Scarlet Wind. Near to where Richard is hanging out.
2) Bola. On the side of the path between the barbarian 'village' and the area with the Wife.
3) Rusty Anchor, in the little mini graveyard
4) ?? I think there is another option in Rusty Anchor on the little sandlot to the left of where you spawn there.


You do NOT need to KITE, necessarily, to beat these forces with no loss, but you may need to use better strategies. Remember that no losses isn't just about having more troops, it's about using troops that don't die.

You have ogres, do you have stoneskin? Could you combine stoneskin, mana spring, and heal to keep them alive (And spam mystic eggs?) This is sometimes an option. Do you have fear to keep bad guys off your ogres for a loong time? Could you phantom paladins for a lot of healing?

Sometimes less is more, don't bring crap units that aren't going to help, and fight a long, but careful, battle. It can work.

I'm not trying to sound argumentative or "know it all", but the concepts you've outlined are extremely basic and of course I know what to use on a "tank". The simple fact is that I can only heal, recast stone skin/mana spring so many turns before mana actually starts becoming an issue and I have to chose between mana spring (which still leads to attrition), stone skin and a heal, none of which really helps when I have almost no mana. I also understand about hiding or storing "crap" units, it's similar to what you can do at the start with the five stack of paladins to breeze your way through it no loss.

I didn't have phantom or target and it *could* have been an issue with how I built my Mage early on, but I'm not sure how much different I could have made it to make a difference. I had rank 1 higher magic and rank 1 transmute.

Regardless, I started over yet again and have all but the last two maps and I was able to kite my way to all of them AND gather around 1850 leadership before my first battle. I'm sure skill is a factor, but luck is as well.

[Zechnophobe]

The only reason I am bringing up the all important fundamentals, is because they served me well enough on all three (one of each class) of my no loss impossible runs. And I never kited a map.

[Sanctuary]

The only reason I am bringing up the all important fundamentals, is because they served me well enough on all three (one of each class) of my no loss impossible runs. And I never kited a map.

How many times did you normally restart a fight though? Getting no loss without kiting is cool, but spending up to an hour or even two on some fights due to reloads gets tiresome. All of the reloads also seem to map out what the AI will do every time, so eventually you already know what they are going to do a few moves ahead.

Right now I'm playing as a Mage and have Necromancers, Demonologists, two Black Dragons, 36 Black Knights and 15 Paladins and I don't think the group composition is all that synergistic, but it's certainly very good. I could probably get far with just the dragons alone and playing from the spellbook, but hindsight and all that...since I didn't know I would find the dragon eggs so early. I also read about how to change the Call of the Colossus creature that's summoned for future reference.

[Zechnophobe]

Yeah, that looks like a lot of good units that don't combine at all well. Can't only give extra turns to the demonologists, can't use paladin's rezz ability except on the demonologist, Paladin's and black knights get left behind while black dragon does most of the work.

As for restarting combats, I don't really do it that often. Only for big tough battles, I might try 2 or 3 times if things don't go well. Are you also doing a 'no reload' run?

[Sanctuary]

Yeah, that looks like a lot of good units that don't combine at all well. Can't only give extra turns to the demonologists, can't use paladin's rezz ability except on the demonologist, Paladin's and black knights get left behind while black dragon does most of the work.

As for restarting combats, I don't really do it that often. Only for big tough battles, I might try 2 or 3 times if things don't go well. Are you also doing a 'no reload' run?

No, I'm definitely not doing a no reolad run right now. Essentially I'm just trying to beat impossible without any losses and I've had to start my game over a few times (but then also adding the gift pack after my second game helped with that...).

I've been a big fan of turn based strategy games since...Shining Force first came out on the original Sega Genesis, but I just got KB:TL a little over a month ago, beat it on hard then impossible (nothing special, just simply beat it) and ended up getting AP about a week ago. I wasn't sure if the game was going to be different enough to warrant a purchase, but I'm glad I picked it up because it definitely has enough differences that make it feel seperate and most of them were really good improvements. A no reload game is definitely something I may try in the future though, it makes it similar to Diablo 2 hardcore mode where if you die, that's it.

[Sanctuary]

I caved in and started using the black knight cheese. At first I was just anticipating how awesome it was going to be, especially after having to "level" the shard and make sure I had enough leadership as well as knights available when it was ready. Needless to say, I'm pretty sure anyone who has used this tactic knows how blatantly overpowered it is. Not that it's the only strong way to beat impossible with no loss, but it almost makes the rest of the game trivial.

After I beat impossible for the first time without any losses, I'm going to try it again but just use the single dragon method (and see how far I can get *without* resetting fights)...although I'm not quite sure which one I really want to use. Black is good for the initiative and anti magic properties, but red seems overall better just because you can buff, heal and even phantom them and they have their breath activation that is really great in conjunction with oil mist. Maybe just alternate between the two depending on the fights, especially when supressing items.

Really went off topic there, but the point I have yet to bring up is that for the most part I know what can and cannot be kited now and haven't really had issues with anything besides the one or two spots I've mentioned. I think there may have been another, but pretty much everything else was easy enough to get through trial and error. I still don't think that spot in Bola is kiteable though, but maybe it is, or maybe it really does just depend on the unit that appears.