New planes requests (from other threads/please pin it)

[Asheshouse]

Originally Posted by sniperton

What remains as a prospective field for improvement is MTO (perhaps with BoF and BoB added and proper attention paid to naval warfare). The Med was won by the Allied by gaining naval and aerial superiority almost hand in hand.

The introduction of ai for ships would provide a major step forward in air v naval action. Currently all ships have a simple course set in missions from which they never deviate until sunk.

Ship formations should have a lead ship with all others positioning themselves relative to the lead depending on their defined role. (Battleline, screen, scout, etc).

Ships under attack should react (weaving, turning away from torpedoes, etc)

Ships should avoid collisions, such as sinking ships.

Smarter ship objects would make much more challenging targets for aircraft, so improve the game for pilots.

The stock game could do with a wider range of ships specific to the Med, maybe taking oob for operation pedestal as a theme, but that could be addressed later.

[Soldier_Fortune]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

The introduction of ai for ships would provide a major step forward in air v naval action. Currently all ships have a simple course set in missions from which they never deviate until sunk.

Ship formations should have a lead ship with all others positioning themselves relative to the lead depending on their defined role. (Battleline, screen, scout, etc).

Ships under attack should react (weaving, turning away from torpedoes, etc)

Ships should avoid collisions, such as sinking ships.

Smarter ship objects would make much more challenging targets for aircraft, so improve the game for pilots.

The stock game could do with a wider range of ships specific to the Med, maybe taking oob for operation pedestal as a theme, but that could be addressed later.

I'm agreed with you.

But for air-naval warfare, IMHO would be more important to fix de insane behaviour of the AI pilots when they attack with torpedoes.

When the previous waypoint to Gattack es reached, they change formation by default to 'Line Astern' and this action can't be reverted by the human flight leader: any order to switch to a different formation will be unheeded.

Actually the AI pilots release their torpedoes from a distance to the target of less than 1200 m, even against vessels with strong AAA, when the torpedoes might be released from a longer a safety distance becuase they have ranges greater than 5000 m.

A flight of big planes, like Bettys, He-111 or Ju-88, arranged in 'line astern' anf flying too low and too slow while they're approaching to their target, are easy prey for the AAA.

Therefore, the AI behaviour should be changed: the human flight leader should be able for to change the flight formation accordingly with his tactics at any moment. I.e.: 'line abreast' or 'echelon left/right' in open formation are better than 'line astern' becuase:

- The AAA must to disperse its fire instead of to concentrate it.

- Releasing all the flight's torpedoes at the same time than the human leaader like a salvo from a safe distance (not less than 3000 m), the probabilty of to hit the target would increase as well as the survival of most or all of the planes.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Verdun1916

Hi Sita!

May I ask, since there are no flyable British manufacured bomber in the stock game, are there any plans from TD to introduce any British bombers? Or make already present AI-ones like the Blenheim or the Wellington flyable?

Making the Blenheim flyable would be easier than making the Wellington flyable, since it only had a crew of 3 - pilot, bombardier/navigator, and RTO/gunner.

There is a restored Blenheim Mk. IV at the RAF Museum in London, and a Mk. I at the Duxford Collection, in the UK. In Finland, there is an authentic Mk. IV at the Air Force Museum. Good pictures of the cockpit and crew stations would incredibly useful in helping 3d modelers.

Sadly, the Bristol Type B Mk I turret wouldn't really be that useful for other aircraft, since it was just used on the Blenheim series (as well as the Avro Anson, but that was never intentionally used in air combat).

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Soldier_Fortune

When the previous waypoint to Gattack es reached, they change formation by default to 'Line Astern' and this action can't be reverted by the human flight leader: any order to switch to a different formation will be unheeded.

That seems like a mistake, since typical torpedo attack doctrine was to attack in line abreast (or similar formation where the planes could release their torpedoes simultaneously), in order to "comb" the formation of ships they were attacking.

I also recall that torpedo bombers might attack by sections from different directions, so that the torpedo spreads would overlap.

That makes me think that there should be yet more "attack modifier" commands for AI:

* Attack on my command - AI only attacks when player does, or when player presses the appropriate key to launch a particular type of weapon).

* Attack at X distance (in meters) - AI only attacks when it gets within X meters of target.

* Begin attack from Y height (in meters) above/below target - AI only begins its attack when it gets to at least Y meters above/below the target. Setting the height to 0 means that the plane makes level attacks against aerial or elevated targets, or makes near ground level attacks vs. ground targets.

* Assume Station at Z o'clock relative to target - AI moves to assume position at Z bearing relative to the target.

[Sita]

Originally Posted by Verdun1916

Hi Sita!

May I ask, since there are no flyable British manufacured bomber in the stock game, are there any plans from TD to introduce any British bombers? Or make already present AI-ones like the Blenheim or the Wellington flyable?

Cheers and thanks for your and the rest of TD's great work!

good question ...

for now as far i know only one British bomber is in work ... it's Lanc... slowly goes forward .. ... huge project .. like B24 ...

about other bomber ... it's sad... but for now now any GB bombers in plans ( ....

we have only few modellers and in less than half programmers ....

plus it's always very difficult work with plane which foreign to you ..

[Verdun1916]

Originally Posted by Sita

good question ...

for now as far i know only one British bomber is in work ... it's Lanc... slowly goes forward .. ... huge project .. like B24 ...

about other bomber ... it's sad... but for now now any GB bombers in plans ( ....

we have only few modellers and in less than half programmers ....

plus it's always very difficult work with plane which foreign to you ..

Thank you for the info Sita! All your work is greatly appreciated! I support you guys all the way! Unfortunatly I have neither modeller nor programmer skills to help you guys out.

[Sita]

Best way of work is when some gent's take care about planes from their own regions ...

in that case planes made definitely with love and attention for details ... plus read Tech.info on foreign language is really difficult ... like it was with L2D ...

and for now we don't have any person from GB to take care about Blenheim ... but it is really needed plane ...

[Verdun1916]

Originally Posted by Sita

Best way of work is when some gent's take care about planes from their own regions ...

in that case planes made definitely with love and attention for details ... plus read Tech.info on foreign language is really difficult ... like it was with L2D ...

and for now we don't have any person from GB to take care about Blenheim ... but it is really needed plane ...

I understand your problem very well!

The Blenheim would be a great plane to have as a flyable. But also the Beaufort and Wellington would be very nice! But any Aircraft you guys manage to get flyable is a great addition to the game according to me!
Are there any plans to introduce any new map suitable for the Lancaster?

You boys do good work! Really good work!

[dimlee]

Originally Posted by Soldier_Fortune

Actually the AI pilots release their torpedoes from a distance to the target of less than 1200 m, even against vessels with strong AAA, when the torpedoes might be released from a longer a safety distance becuase they have ranges greater than 5000 m.
...
- Releasing all the flight's torpedoes at the same time than the human leaader like a salvo from a safe distance (not less than 3000 m), the probabilty of to hit the target would increase as well as the survival of most or all of the planes.

3000m is too much, IMHO. I doubt that torpedo bombers achieved any hits at this distance in WWII, unless flying in large numbers. On the other hand, smarter AI behaviour would be nice to have. For example, earlier torpedo releases if target ships have high skill levels and therefore AAA fire is more precise.
Distances of less 1000m are reasonable against single ships, especially light armed.

[Soldier_Fortune]

Originally Posted by dimlee

3000m is too much, IMHO. I doubt that torpedo bombers achieved any hits at this distance in WWII, unless flying in large numbers.

The USN aerial warfare doctrine during the 40's determined, for attacks against armed vessels, that dive bombers should begin the attack, and then torpedo- bombers should finish it launching torpedoes against the damaged and weakened targets.

Of course, the number of involved a/c should be really big for to achieve targets.

But, in the other hand, think about a medium bomber, like He-111 or Ju-88 or a Betty, into the role as torpedo attacker.

Against unescorted convoys they could launch torpedoes from less than 1000 m.
But against heavily escorted convoys with a good and dense screen of destroyers and also light cruisers, those big birds flying at 30-50 m @SL and at 200 km/h would mean the loss of several expensive flights or squadrons in one only mission.

No navy or air force could support such degree of attrition: the standard training for bomber's pilots demanded 55 weeks at least. Plus several weeks for specific misions like this which we're talking about.

3000 m becomes a good and safe distance if a convoy is sailing at steady speed and heading. But when enemy planes were spotted, the fleets started maneouvers for to avoid hits... and the torpedo-bombers should approach and penetrate into the dangerous range of the AAA, for to launch their attack from a shorter distance.

Therefore, the USN doctrine (and probably all the main powers involved in the 2WW had similar doctrines) was right: the torpedo-bombers should attack after the dive bombers, in big number, and from different directions.