TBF Avenger and other planes

[ElAurens]

I don't claim to have a wealth of knowledge about Luftwaffe aircraft type utilization, but were not most of the bombers pretty much grounded in the late war period as what little fuel the Luftwaffe had available was deemed more important for use by fighters for air defense?

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Actually, unless you're flying in a dark room, the player ISN'T blinded by bright lights at night. That means your virtual pilot or tail gunner retains his night vision when he should be dazzled by searchlights, explosions or muzzle flashes.

Okay if compared to real life -the player is not blinded. The muzzle flash temporarily outshines all other ingame objects, and the slightly more blackish grey of the enemy bomber gets lost against the greyish black of the background. If lucky enough, rinse, wash, repeat. Usually and unlucky - ram bomber you don't see any more. Extra unlucky and very common, given away position, and getting pounded by all bombers nearby.
Another thing that would be useful and maybe even necessary - flames and or glow of exhausts.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

There is the Ar-234, which is about as late war as German bombers get. But I don't think that's what you had in mind

Yeah, this thing is fun. No one can catch you(almost). And that's also not too desireable for balance. And it was a rare bird. I was more thinking along the lines of a Do-217/He-177 (already there as AI model).

Originally Posted by Furio

After all that ponderous planning in my previous post, I should have added IMHO… And must admit: I have my personal, far from rational favourites: the Whirlwind and the B26 Marauder… Both would need new maps, very unlikely! Sigh…

Whirlwind can use Normandy map. Or the fake British isles (Kuban if I'm not mistaken?) - and it would be highly welcome even without a map.
B-26 is one of my favourites, too, but to be honest -its roles can largley and without too much hassle be occupied by B-25/A-20. As sad as it is, there is no real need for this beautiful plane.

[Derda508]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

-its roles can largley and without too much hassle be occupied by B-25/A-20. As sad as it is, there is no real need for this beautiful plane.

But it made quite some impression on the German footsoldiers serving in Northern Africa, Sicily, Itlay and Normandy. I know from first hand that they used to call all these American twin-enginie bombers, regardless whether A 20 or B-25, just "Marauders".

[Furio]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Whirlwind can use Normandy map. Or the fake British isles (Kuban if I'm not mistaken?) - and it would be highly welcome even without a map.
B-26 is one of my favourites, too, but to be honest -its roles can largley and without too much hassle be occupied by B-25/A-20. As sad as it is, there is no real need for this beautiful plane.

The B26 had a significant role in the last two years of war, particularly with the Ninth AF. In my opinion, it was a sort of “tactical Flying Fortress”, the best type allied had in this role, until the Invader became available. And in that role it would be perfectly suited for good old Il2. It would efficiently share the same overall scenario with the Typhoon, flying over Northern France, the Ardennes and Southern Germany, pounding the same targets.

The Whirlwind is – to my eyes – the most beautiful WWII type, but honestly it can be considered barely operational, with just 116 examples built, flown by two squadrons only and replaced by the Typhoon. Possibly, the best way to use it is as a starting point for an RAF ground attack pilot career, progressing to the Typhoon and Tempest. As said above, the Typhoon could happily share the same scenario with the B26…

Just an exercise in optimism!

[gaunt1]

So, if we exclude strategic bombing, I think the following planes would be suitable for IL-2 maps

LW: Ju-88A14, He-111H16, Do-217K/M*, Me-410
US: B-25C, B-25G and H, Helldiver
Soviet: Tu-2

* used as anti shipping bomber too, thats why in the list.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Furio

The B26 had a significant role in the last two years of war, particularly with the Ninth AF. In my opinion, it was a sort of “tactical Flying Fortress”, the best type allied had in this role, until the Invader became available. And in that role it would be perfectly suited for good old Il2. It would efficiently share the same overall scenario with the Typhoon, flying over Northern France, the Ardennes and Southern Germany, pounding the same targets.

Yes that would fit. And it would find its friends - I'd bet anyone that likes the A-20 would like the B-26. But I don't see the huge gap where this plane is missing, rather a small niche.

Originally Posted by Furio

The Whirlwind is – to my eyes – the most beautiful WWII type, but honestly it can be considered barely operational, with just 116 examples built, flown by two squadrons only and replaced by the Typhoon. Possibly, the best way to use it is as a starting point for an RAF ground attack pilot career, progressing to the Typhoon and Tempest. As said above, the Typhoon could happily share the same scenario with the B26…

Just an exercise in optimism!

And we have a I-185, with Idontknowhowlittle built, among others. I always thought a hypothetical souped up Whirly 1945/46 model would have been a perfect counter against the more realistic 1946 German planes. And given that most prop engines of that time enhanced their power by 1.5 to 2 in their carreres, a fully developed Peregrine with all the bells and whistles would be no more unrealistic as a few other planes IMHO.

[Buster_Dee]

Originally Posted by Furio

That’s another type under the Gxxxxxn-Nxxxxxxp ban. I would shelve the whole night bombers-night fighters lot. Flying night interceptors would be simply to follow a different kind of mini-map, and then fire on a black silhouette barely visible in the dark. Flying bombers, it would be simply sit and wait for invisible fighters coming out from nowhere.

That’s my opinion, of course.

There's at least one problem with your assumption. I started learning to model for Target for Tonight, I have a radar background and, even as a Yank, the only theaters that REALLY interest me are the Commonwealth night bomber offensive, and the North-Atlantic U-boat defense. The only reason I model at all is that, after 20 years of waiting, I still hope. So, the one problem: if you tell me I will NEVER have my night bomber/night fighters, I'm taking my ball and going home.

[Buster_Dee]

Ok, maybe SOME daylight stuff is ok. I do love that B-26. All the talk about what could be "easily done" by using parts of other birds does not seem to include the B-26, which did have the same turret as the B-24 had (nearly identical).

But, I like the short-wing version in British service. There's is definitely something wrong with my allegiances.

The TBF? I fume to think about having it off-limits. NG was always such a stand-up company--clearly most concerned about giving fighting men something they could REALLY use and repair, giving their workers a real reason to be proud, and giving engineers a reason to do "right" things. I still can't put what happened with that company. An apology from them, and a thanks for all the model builders who became engineers, seems far more characteristic of their legacy.

Did you know that a Hellcat was bounce-tested from a ceiling? It was so rugged that the testers decided to have a little fun. I don't think the cat even noticed it was being abused.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

The TBF? I fume to think about having it off-limits. NG was always such a stand-up company--clearly most concerned about giving fighting men something they could REALLY use and repair, giving their workers a real reason to be proud, and giving engineers a reason to do "right" things.

Yep. They got evil and corrupt starting in the 90s after the merger. Massive fines for various ethics and environmental violations. Grumman might have been a stand-up company, but Northrop wasn't so nice and Northrop bought Grumman, not the other way round.

My hope is that a talented modder will make high-quality flyable TBF cockpit and crew stations, and then go on to complete the entire run of Grumman fighters, starting with the F3F. Then, they'll finish off by making a really top-of-the-line fully flyable P-61 and the Ryan FR Fireball. This is a wish-list thread!

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

There's at least one problem with your assumption. I started learning to model for Target for Tonight, I have a radar background and, even as a Yank, the only theaters that REALLY interest me are the Commonwealth night bomber offensive, and the North-Atlantic U-boat defense. The only reason I model at all is that, after 20 years of waiting, I still hope. So, the one problem: if you tell me I will NEVER have my night bomber/night fighters, I'm taking my ball and going home.

I think we're close to that night fighter scenario. A map of somewhere in Germany, a flyable British bomber, set the lights low, a Bf110G-4 which we've already seen.... would give us some great night fighter/bomber activity.

The B-26 would be amazing however. Very useful over the Normandy map we already have.