I hate the wrong data in Il2 strmovik 1946

[Former_Older]

OK. I had not read this reply before I posted last.

Originally Posted by SturmKreator

Hey this in the real life no the game, with a zero you can`t down at fw1900 d9,

Absolutely you can down a Focke-Wulf of any make with an A6M. As you say, "hey, this is in real life"

To argue otherwise is flatly wrong. There is nothing inherently superior that makes a FW 190-D9 invulnerable to an A6M. You are talking as if this were Fantasyland. The FW 190-D9 was not invincible, this is not a trading card game in which one card defeats another, and neither was historical air combat. You must b joking with this statement. Or do you perhaps disagree with von Richtofen's idea of "it's the man, not the machine"?

Originally Posted by SturmKreator

this is a madness, the german have a better planes of history,

Germans made fine aircraft but to make a blanket statement that disallows any other nation to have made fine aircraft as well is a false reality that blindly ignores anything but one's own personal opinion and jingoistic bias

In addition to many fine and advanced aircraft, the Germans also made a lot of planes that were simply bad or were not thought out completely, or just plain of poor construction, unless you consider planes shedding bits in flight to be an acceptable standard. In addition, in the first world war, the Germans made some planes that were so un-suitable they looked to another country for combat planes in many cases...just like the Americans did!

Originally Posted by SturmKreator

american pilots have afraid when they see a fw190 and that is true

Americans were in fact afraid of German planes. Why should they not be? Only an idiot would not be afraid of guns pointing at them. Germans were afraid of American planes as well, and this is documentably true as evidenced by oral and written histories recorded of and by Luftwaffe pilots.

You are boldly wrong, plainly incorrect, and arrogantly ignorant.

You have not come here to talk about the simulation my friend. You have come here to troll

Merry Christmas and have a nice day, Storm Maker. Or should I say Pot Stirrer!

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Former_Older

OK. I had not read this reply before I posted last.



Absolutely you can down a Focke-Wulf of any make with an A6M. As you say, "hey, this is in real life"

To argue otherwise is flatly wrong. There is nothing inherently superior that makes a FW 190-D9 invulnerable to an A6M. You are talking as if this were Fantasyland. The FW 190-D9 was not invincible, this is not a trading card game in which one card defeats another, and neither was historical air combat. You must b joking with this statement. Or do you perhaps disagree with von Richtofen's idea of "it's the man, not the machine"?



Germans made fine aircraft but to make a blanket statement that disallows any other nation to have made fine aircraft as well is a false reality that blindly ignores anything but one's own personal opinion and jingoistic bias

In addition to many fine and advanced aircraft, the Germans also made a lot of planes that were simply bad or were not thought out completely, or just plain of poor construction, unless you consider planes shedding bits in flight to be an acceptable standard. In addition, in the first world war, the Germans made some planes that were so un-suitable they looked to another country for combat planes in many cases...just like the Americans did!



Americans were in fact afraid of German planes. Why should they not be? Only an idiot would not be afraid of guns pointing at them. Germans were afraid of American planes as well, and this is documentably true as evidenced by oral and written histories recorded of and by Luftwaffe pilots.

You are boldly wrong, plainly incorrect, and arrogantly ignorant.

You have not come here to talk about the simulation my friend. You have come here to troll

Merry Christmas and have a nice day, Storm Maker. Or should I say Pot Stirrer!

Right on the money. To claim that a FW190D-9 is invulnerable to a Zero shows an obvious lack of understanding of the subject and sounds more like reading the watered down version of history rather than truly understanding air combat.

There are so many factors in air combat...the machine is definitely a crucial part and the Germans made excellent air combat machines but the difference between a FW190D-9 and a A6M Zero is not so great that given the right situation and the right pilot the Zero could not be the victor through proper employment of the various air combat techniques.

Air combat is often not a fair fight. What if the Zero in this hypothetical battles knows the FW190 is there but the FW190 does not. Surprise attack and the FW190 is down. Or the FW190 pilot miscalculates a turn and the Zero cuts the corner and again has guns and shoots him down. These are of course hypothetical since a Zero never fought a FW190 in an actual battle...but no plane is immune to any other.

[SturmKreator]

Originally Posted by Former_Older

OK. I had not read this reply before I posted last.



Absolutely you can down a Focke-Wulf of any make with an A6M. As you say, "hey, this is in real life"

To argue otherwise is flatly wrong. There is nothing inherently superior that makes a FW 190-D9 invulnerable to an A6M. You are talking as if this were Fantasyland. The FW 190-D9 was not invincible, this is not a trading card game in which one card defeats another, and neither was historical air combat. You must b joking with this statement. Or do you perhaps disagree with von Richtofen's idea of "it's the man, not the machine"?



Germans made fine aircraft but to make a blanket statement that disallows any other nation to have made fine aircraft as well is a false reality that blindly ignores anything but one's own personal opinion and jingoistic bias

In addition to many fine and advanced aircraft, the Germans also made a lot of planes that were simply bad or were not thought out completely, or just plain of poor construction, unless you consider planes shedding bits in flight to be an acceptable standard. In addition, in the first world war, the Germans made some planes that were so un-suitable they looked to another country for combat planes in many cases...just like the Americans did!



Americans were in fact afraid of German planes. Why should they not be? Only an idiot would not be afraid of guns pointing at them. Germans were afraid of American planes as well, and this is documentably true as evidenced by oral and written histories recorded of and by Luftwaffe pilots.

You are boldly wrong, plainly incorrect, and arrogantly ignorant.

You have not come here to talk about the simulation my friend. You have come here to troll

Merry Christmas and have a nice day, Storm Maker. Or should I say Pot Stirrer!

look my friend, read more and dont follow all that you see, like a "the history channel" (or the gringory channel how I call), think better before writte, read in special books of editorial OSPREY, and you can know about the true, i have test germans about fw190 A8, look this chart:

this documents are translate to english, you can see the real velocity indicated

[choctaw111]

Many people complain about performance figures whether they fly for BLUE or RED.
Someone once said that since everyone complains just about equally, Oleg must have gotten it right.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by SturmKreator

look my friend, read more and dont follow all that you see, like a "the history channel" (or the gringory channel how I call), think better before writte, read in special books of editorial OSPREY, and you can know about the true, i have test germans about fw190 A8, look this chart:

this documents are translate to english, you can see the real velocity indicated

And what is that telling us and how are you comparing it to the game? That particular chart is the average cruise speed/fuel consumption/flight endurance chart...

[flyingbullseye]

Guys you're getting no where with this dude, he's been hitting the koolaid hard. Appearently it really is the plane not the pilot. Which then beckens the question. Since the Germans really had the wonder weapon (FW190) how did the allied fighters not only manage to shoot any down but gain air superiority? It shouldn't have mattered that there was a lack of training, the Germans had the 190, its super ubber.

In regard to my point about the Zero and the 190. If you were to take on an A6M2 in your FW flying the angles fight he'd be on you so fast the only way to save your skin is to run. If you were to stay and try to continue the that type of fight your FW would suddenly get religious (full of holes ->holy) and you'd become another notch on the side of his fighter. You'd have to fight your fight, energy tactics, thus taking away many of his advantages over you and dictating the terms of engagement in order to win.

I'm sorry but I have a real hard time believing that you have been flying this sim for years and know the tactics yet continue to argue generalilities, ie victory in air combat goes to the one with the fastest a/c or most manuverable, best firepower, best climb ect with no regard to any advantage the opposing a/c or pilot skill has over you or your ride.

All your arguments are proving IceFire, Former_Older and others correct that you have a skewed take on history and probably getting pasted in your favorite ride and that's clashing with what you believe to be true. The FW 190 and many other German fighters were a great fighters but like ALL the others they're not the all around best. Against any opponent they had advantages over them and vise versa.

BTW, what the he!! is the gringory channel? Is this another history channel? Never heard of it. Might want to call my cable company friday I think I'm getting screwed. lol

Flyingbullseye

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

I think the easiest way of explaining this to Sturm, is Hypothetically.Ok put near sighted grandma who has no race experience, in say a 2008 Subaru WRX and a rally champion veteran in say a Volkswagen beatle 1966 model.Put them both on a 2km hard rally track, Who will win? Grandma or the rally champ? Well i know where my money is going,how about you?

[Brain32]

Wow you guys are very reasonable...too bad you are never reasonable when it comes to other planes people complain about LOOOOOOOL

I think the easiest way of explaining this to Sturm, is Hypothetically.Ok put near sighted grandma in say a 2008 Subaru WRX and a rally champion veteran in say a Volkswagen beatle 1966 model.Put them both on a 2km hard rally track, Who will win? Grandma or the rally champ? Well i know where my money is going,how about you?

Was that Grandma ever a qualified rally driver? If she was my money goes on her, if she wasn't your comparision is lacking...

[Feuerfalke]

So true, Brain32!


On the other side: Who said that IL2 is realistic in every regard and detail? It's not. It's still a game, a pc-simulation-game, one of the most realistic there is, but still a game.

And this claiming of data is irrelevant, honestly. IL2 does not modell all aspects of physics and the engine is over 10 years old. Many planes just work with a load of work-arounds and scripting, others are missing important plane-parts, like coolers and stuff, because of engine limitations.

And you ask for realistic data?

Sorry, but this discussion reminds me to pre-schoolers discussing if Superman or Captain America would win a duel in real life.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Brain32

Wow you guys are very reasonable...too bad you are never reasonable when it comes to other planes people complain about LOOOOOOOL

I'm curious. Such as?

I'm interested in all planes pretty much and have a soft spot for allot of types... FW190 (which seems to be dominating this discussion) included.