4.11 - AI debugging

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I just noticed this:

8 Average Ki-43 III vs. a "box" of 3 Veteran B-24J in QMB. 5000m over the Okinawa map. No advantage to either side.
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Originally Posted by X-Raptor

Hmm.. Bomber gunner sniper behavior fixed you told?.. Respectfully I don't agree m8 , for me Is really equal as ever was in 4.10, moreover as you said we now have A.I. bombers acting like fighter "Bug" too now that was not present in 4.10 for example.. things are going back instead of forward I feel..
...

This is in QMB, right? I think this is a QMB related issue, if I try to shoot down bombers with at least a decent defensive armament in QMB from anything close to 6'o clock, even with significant altitude and speed advantage, I'm meat on a platter even for average AI. In "normal" missions, if I do anything else than parking behind a Bomber with average AI, I'm usually fine, even if I approach from 6'o clock. Coming from above and off-angle or head on versus normal AI I hardly get hit ever. And Bombers don't do some silly "dancing" as sometimes happens in QMB.
Maybe QMB somehow still uses 4.10 AI?

I think TD should continue developing AI. I really liked the improvement they did with 4.11. AI working as a team against you is really nice. Also I haven't encountered the AI doing inverted barrel rolls and accelerating at the same time in 4.11. Their evasion patterns have become more convincing to me -most of the time. And don't forget the ridicolus Bf109 behavior, spiral climb to xxxx meters, then dive, and climb again in 4.10. Haven't seen that in a while(Except in QMB). And even if some new bugs occur, no big problem - they will be ironed out with the next patch.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

This is in QMB, right?

Yes. And you might be right that it's a QMB vs. FMB issue. I'm a bit surprised if it is, though. I thought that AI was independent of FMB vs. QMB.

Originally Posted by majorfailure

I think this is a QMB related issue, if I try to shoot down bombers with at least a decent defensive armament in QMB from anything close to 6'o clock, even with significant altitude and speed advantage, I'm meat on a platter even for average AI.

This is as it should be. For flexible guns shooting a plane attacking from the rear with no angle of deflection is the easiest shot to make. Even a rookie should be able to hit planes that attack like this.

Originally Posted by majorfailure

In "normal" missions, if I do anything else than parking behind a Bomber with average AI, I'm usually fine, even if I approach from 6'o clock. Coming from above and off-angle or head on versus normal AI I hardly get hit ever.

That doesn't seem right. The second easiest shot to make is against a head-on attack with no angle of deflection.

Moving along two axes (e.g., diving and closing on the target) isn't that hard to track for a defensive gunner. Moving along all three axes (i.e., diving, slipping and closing - like with a high-side attack) is a challenge even for a good defensive gunner.

Originally Posted by majorfailure

And Bombers don't do some silly "dancing" as sometimes happens in QMB. Maybe QMB somehow still uses 4.10 AI?

I'm not sure that they do, since they don't have that sniper-like accuracy anymore, especially not at long ranges (remember back before 4.11 where a B-17 tailgunner could devastate your Bf-109G or kill you at 600 meters range?). Part of my original complaint came from the fact that by trying to "dance around" the bombers defensive fire wasn't nearly as accurate as it should be.

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Their evasion patterns have become more convincing to me -most of the time.

Yes. And if you replay the same mission (using AI on both sides) you'll notice that each side uses different techniques each time - enough that sometimes one plane will win, sometimes the other will win, based on who chose what tactics.

What I'd like to see is, in addition to team tactics is realistic high altitude/level bomber behavior - Ace or veteran crews will have tighter formations, lone bombers will corkscrew or "jink" while still keeping relatively low G to allow their gunners to shoot effectively, and high altitude bomber formations will randomly change course every 30 seconds over heavy flak concentrations to spoil the gunners aim.

[majorfailure]

-AI Rookie flying A6M in front of you evades by "riding" the snap stall until behind you -seen this often. Also seen twice with Rookie AI in Bf109E or F. They initiate the stall by pulling hard and getting one wing to stall, start circling mainly around the yaw axis while keeping an AoA of around 30 degree. Thus they slow down while presenting a somewhat difficult target. This is not an accidental and uncontrolable stall which happens when puling too hard, because they always start flying straight and level as soon as you overshoot them -of course nose pointing your direction.

-I think this has been adressed before but at a quick glance I couldn't find it: AI drops bombs as soon as command to attack is given.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

This is as it should be. For flexible guns shooting a plane attacking from the rear with no angle of deflection is the easiest shot to make. Even a rookie should be able to hit planes that attack like this.

Yes, if you "park" on the bombers rear quarter, and if you do that against average AI, you will get shot to pieces regularly. But do it with some altitude & speed, maybe from 5'o clock, and stay outside ~300m -you will succeed most of the time-except in QMB. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think AI in QMB does behave different than anywhere else in the game.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

That doesn't seem right. The second easiest shot to make is against a head-on attack with no angle of deflection.

This rarely happens -at least to me. I try to set up my head-on passes from above or below, because its easier to avoid ramming the target. And most of the time I don't guess the bombers heading perfectly right. In the end, that presents the gunner with a ~2*3m sized target (frontal cross-section of a fighter) coming in at 230m/s slightly off-angle and out of plain. Average AI should miss this shot regularly IMHO. And even if they score a hit, most bombers have rather weak frontal armament -so if this isn't your unluckiest day, you should be able to pull it off.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

What I'd like to see is, in addition to team tactics is realistic high altitude/level bomber behavior - Ace or veteran crews will have tighter formations, lone bombers will corkscrew or "jink" while still keeping relatively low G to allow their gunners to shoot effectively, and high altitude bomber formations will randomly change course every 30 seconds over heavy flak concentrations to spoil the gunners aim.

Hmm, I don't think that better AI should have tighter formations, they should have less trouble keeping in formation though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't USAAF formations have set distances for their boxes? And considering large bomber formations of more than two flights they shouldn't maneuver to avoid FlaK, as I don't think this was done in WW2. I think most of the time keeping in formation was just enough of a task.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Hmm, I don't think that better AI should have tighter formations, they should have less trouble keeping in formation though.

You're right. I'm stating it the wrong way. Ace and Veteran bombers should have an easier time keeping formation and flying at assigned distances. Average planes might straggle a bit, or very rarely accidentally collide. Rookies might straggle more and might accidentally collide with other planes in their formation if they panic.

For fighters and other single-engined planes, Situational Awareness should go down at virtually any level of skill if you're flying in tight formation. Station-keeping requires a certain amount of work. In particular, rookies often focused on keeping formation rather than looking out for danger. Looser formations should allow maximum situational awareness.

[Pursuivant]

I'm not sure if this is an AI, a GUI or a graphics problem.

Some planes with manually-controlled multi-stage superchargers (e.g., the La-7) start the game with the supercharger set to the wrong setting in high altitude Quick Combat scenarios, causing the plane to produce black smoke trails until the player fixes the problem.

If you set the plane to autopilot before fixing the supercharger setting, either the AI-controlled plane doesn't switch to the proper supercharger stage or the smoke trails associated with a too-rich fuel mixture don't go away after it does so.

As a test to see what I mean, try setting up a QMB scenario with an La-7 starting at 5000 meters, then immediately switch to autopilot and then external view.

[Pursuivant]

It appears that AI aircraft have no idea what to do about V-1s. Even if the whole point of the mission is shoot down V-1s, and there's nothing else in the sky to shoot, and the V-1 is right in front of them, AI aircraft will ignore them!

It seems like it would be a very simple bit of programming for Average, Veteran or Ace aircraft to either take sniper shots at a distance, or try to "run down" the V-1 and flip it using their wingtip. Rookies would take shots from within the blast radius.