Soviet fighters and 4.12

[gaunt1]

IceFire!

Check the previous page! NII VVS test results, the best, most reliable source you can find. Of course there are prototypes included too, but easy to distinguish them. LaGG-3 is also included, but no variant number.

What we need:

SN 37210444, 08.1942 for La-5
SN 39213050, 07-08.1943 for La-5F
SN 39210495, 09-10.1943 for La-5FN

Problems ingame:

La-5 is way too fast at any altitude
La-5F is too fast at low and high altitudes, but a bit slow at medium
La-5FN is bit too fast at low altitudes, too slow at medium, and way too fast at high altitudes.

Turn times are exaggerated ingame, difference is 1-3 seconds depending on variant.

La-5 and La-5F also have a bit too high climb rate.

Regarding La-7, Z1024 did a very good research, chech his thread.

[Fighterace]

So are the Soviet fighters getting there FM fixed/tweaked for 4.12?

[jermin]

Originally Posted by Fighterace

So are the Soviet fighters getting there FM fixed/tweaked for 4.12?

Stop daydreaming, mate. Actually, I would not be supprised if they further "optimized" their FM.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by jermin

Stop daydreaming, mate. Actually, I would not be supprised if they further "optimized" their FM.

Yes we should definitely make them fly 9000 kph at all altitudes...

[JtD]

Originally Posted by Fighterace

So are the Soviet fighters getting there FM fixed/tweaked for 4.12?

No. It was planned, but we all want the patch to appear some time 2013. So it's on hold.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

IceFire!

Check the previous page! NII VVS test results, the best, most reliable source you can find. Of course there are prototypes included too, but easy to distinguish them. LaGG-3 is also included, but no variant number.

What we need:

SN 37210444, 08.1942 for La-5
SN 39213050, 07-08.1943 for La-5F
SN 39210495, 09-10.1943 for La-5FN

Problems ingame:

La-5 is way too fast at any altitude
La-5F is too fast at low and high altitudes, but a bit slow at medium
La-5FN is bit too fast at low altitudes, too slow at medium, and way too fast at high altitudes.

Turn times are exaggerated ingame, difference is 1-3 seconds depending on variant.

La-5 and La-5F also have a bit too high climb rate.

Regarding La-7, Z1024 did a very good research, chech his thread.

Missed that. Really interesting! I'd like to see the test values lined up with in-game much better than they have been. It's been a while since quite a few planes had a good looking over but as JtD said, it'd be great to have the patch this year and so maybe next patch there will be time. I'd rather them done carefully than rushed.

[Arrow]

Bigger problem than small differences in speed or turn rate is a bug in flight model of La-5FN that is practically immune to stall and you can fly a cobra with it no problem, you can very simply stall La-7, La-5F or La-5, however La-5FN is different and you can pull the stick back as much as you want at any speed or altitude (without using rudder of course). It would be at least nice to have this FM bug corrected in 4.12 and tweak the performance of the whole breed to more realistic serial production levels for the next patch.

[gaunt1]

Are La-5/F/FN/7 supercharger switch altitudes correct in IL-2? Im just asking this because I noticed considerable fluctuation between different variants, up to 700m. For example, La-5, second gear shift is @ 4600m. La-5, @ 4000m, La-5FN, @ 4400m, La-7 @ 3900m. Is this correct?

[1984]

Originally Posted by JG52Karaya

Problem with the La-5/7 series is their overly high topspeeds which are partly based on the "etalon" production standard setting prototypes (of which no serial produced machine ever had hopes to reproduce performances)

you are not right and i was already tired to repeat it to anyone who tries to speak here about what he doesn't have a clue, in fact...

again, now special for you - best prototype'43 of la-5fn had 595 kph at sl and 3165 kg... best prototype of la-5f without gagrot had (if i'm not mistaken here) 565 kph at sl... prototype of la-5 with gargrot and m-82a had 515 kph at sl (it's nominal power)... one of first prototypes of la-7 (with 3 b-20?) had 630+ kph at sl...

WHERE this in game?

where polished prototype of lagg-3 with 515 kph at sl? where experimental (or NOT?) yak-7b without gargrot with 553 kph at sl? where prototype of yak-9u with 600 kph at sl? etc etc etc...

only, respectively, around 585/552/605/498/575 kph at sl from quality tests of serial planes...

wth, some normal planes have now performance lower than mass serial plane without any reasons in addition to balance and vulnerability of some lovers of fast shooting 422465765354545 "stupid indians/mongols/russkies" for once...


of course, i talking about performances and FM in total...

and WHAT wrong if part of SOME planes can have - in 43-45 - normal performance almost as etalon?


well...

ok, lets see at german planes - in game now - etalon of g-2 with 2859! kg instead around 3030 and calculated? speed 537 kph at sl, fw 190a-5 with unlimited? 1.42 and performance of "gespachtelt und poliert" fw 190 with 4000 kg, etalon of f-2 with 515 kph at sl, etalon of g-6 with ONLY 1.42 ata, etc what i can't remember...

almost all planes - etalon or experimental planes even in 44-45...

of course, it's only my opinion and i can be wrong sometimes, but, think, i see funny and strange situation, in fact (any can try to debate with me with clear DOCUMENTS (without victorious deutschewochenschau, not about "wunderwaffe" or "352 victims" of hartmann) and, especially, info about BAL, REAL quality tests, defects etc etc etc, ie about REAL situation)...


well, in fact, now just old wrong stupid balance for ALL sides - many soviet planes in 41-43 have now better performance (498 kph at sl instead 475 for laggs of early series, 505-510 kph at sl instead 465-475 for serial mig-3, il-2/il-10 too fast at sl etc), in total, than it's been, but even in 43-45 no any absolutely etalons or prototypes...

well, in game need to be fix very many things...


and personally i very much hope for adequate modeling of, especially, fw 190 in the BoS and DCS...

La-5: 20kmh too fast at all altitudes (550kmh ingame @ SL vs 525kmh IRL, 600kmh ingame @ altitude vs 580kmh IRL)

apparently, you are right about speed at high altitudes, but in total you just don't know about series and types of la-5 with gargrot and their performances in total...

This was the very first version of the La-5 introduced around the Battle of Stalingrad and was lacking a lot in performance,

yes, apparently, in BOS one of main la-5 were la-5 of early series... APPARENTLY... and had some problems, like many soviet planes in this period...

and you are right, it's very first version which now just NO in il-2...

even the LaGG-3S66 was deemed a better fighter at the time!

mythical "s66" it's spring of 43...

La-5F: sea level speed ok

of course, normal speed of serial plane, from quality tests...

La-5FN: OK speed-wise for a '44 model, ingame it is labelled '43 and would thus need a 20kmh speed reduction

now - 585 kph at sl (forsazh) and around 3300 kg (328x.xx) - it's just la-5fn'43-44 with normal quality... but. of course, need little poorly AND little better planes...

La-7: sea level speed ok, speed at altitude 25kmh too fast (685 ingame vs 660 IRL)

briefly...

normal SERIAL la-7 it's around 613-620 kph at sl (in game 605), around 650 at 5000 (in game 660), around 675 at 6000 (in game 683)... around 20/24 ms at sl (in game 22/26)... around 18.5 sec at 1000 (in game 18.09)... around 3232 kg (in game 3244)... etc...

and need little worse version of this plane...


well... and i remembered about one fresh article about la-7, want see this, maybe some new info...


and, and i didn't want to offend anybody in my posts...

[1984]

Originally Posted by IceFire

That all sounds pretty reasonable to me in terms of fixes for the series.

what really interesting in Karaya's post, it's speed of some la at high altitude, apparently, it's really not correctly (i think it's "balance")... just personally i focused at low alts, main atl at s-g front, so, missed this... well, anyway, now it's important only for those who will do new performances or who want for yourself full real picture of s-g front...

Originally Posted by IceFire

1984, what do you think? Russian sources suggest similarly?

Originally Posted by IceFire

Missed that. Really interesting!

i and sources, as before, say what better need ignored any posts of gaunt1 or Z1024 or similar users if you want to know true - it's just opinions - mainly wrong and too simple...

no knowing of language... without docs... sometimes even could not read simple tables which found... etc...

i have now 87 posts about errors, not absolutely correctly sometimes, but... i know my language... read all normal books... plus some free docs and many peoples... etc... well, and little later i want write (apparently, again only for self, or some users who READ) what found in sources/docs/books about la-5/7...

So far as I know, no 3D model changes... just performances.

at least, need do other front bulletproof of two halves for some planes (attached pic and i saw also rear bulletproof of few parts - apparently, after repair - for some yaks), need bomb racks, need opening cockpit/radiators etc (here i clearly see opened "stvorki" on sides of engine, ie, worse turn time and speed by la-5fn manual), need mirror in cockpit (though, probably, mirrors almost always filmed)... maybe something more, can't remember now... but, in fact, DT can do only new performances like with new fw 190s which have, apparently, much more wrong 3d model even now...

well, all depends what can and will do DT, of course...

and in fact, in game need include and reworking really lot of things, i repeat...

for example, lagg-3 4 serie in game are - in fact - FRANKENPLANE, with wrong 3d model, wrong fuel load, wrong weapons, wrong ammo load for all guns, wrong max. diving speed and wrong performance, ie now in game no any normal laggs of early series for period from summer'41 until summer-autumn'42...

other series of lagg-3 not correctly, in some sense, too... as many many other planes... ohhh... sometimes i just wonder how all wrong, and it lasts for many YEARS...