FM-2 Wildcat performance

[JtD]

In fighter aircraft of late 1930 they were still state of the art, however, they were soon to be replaced by electric gunsights, which were far better. This is also true for the F4F-3, only the first couple of aircraft were ever fitted with telescope sights. Apparently telescope sights were considered better than iron rings, though.

Speaking of very early F4F-3's, the first two F4F-3 came with a different armament of 2x.303+2x.50, the .303 being installed in the fuselage, the .50 in the wings. One of them is 1845, tested alongside 1848 which is seen in the picture. 1848 would be the fifth F4F-3 to be made, and was written off on March 23rd, 1942, after a crash landing on the Hornet.

[IceFire]

Aha... http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4f/fm-2.html

Same website. FM-2 performance information. It seems the FM-2 gets back what the F4F-4 lost. Seems like IL-2's performance numbers are pretty damn accurate for the FM-2. The F4F-4 might be a little on the fast side. F4F-3 seems about right too.

[MaxGunz]

Some countries had a pre-WWII doctrine where all the action was to be bombers and interceptors. Forgetting how wrong that turned out to be, telescopes made sense in that view.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Some countries had a pre-WWII doctrine where all the action was to be bombers and interceptors. Forgetting how wrong that turned out to be, telescopes made sense in that view.

Yep. A telescopic sight makes sense if you're trying to take "sniper shots" at a relatively fragile and large plane. That would make sense in the 1930s when the conventional wisdom was "the bomber will always get through" and fighters were limited to stern chases or quick diving attacks with light weapons. Telescopic sights are also useful for dive or glide bombing attacks.

They also make some sense if you have the luxury of detecting the enemy before he detects you - since it allows you to identify the foe at a greater distance. Since most kills were against foes who never saw their attacker, realistically, it means that a telescopic sight is an improvement over iron sights.

But, it's idiotic to use a telescopic sight in a dogfight. Since that's the way that most IL2 players play the game, that makes telescopic sights fairly useless.

[Luno13]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

But, it's idiotic to use a telescopic sight in a dogfight. Since that's the way that most IL2 players play the game, that makes telescopic sights fairly useless.

This is a huge misconception in Il-2.

The collimator tube sight is not telescopic. It is simply a method to project a crosshair. You keep both eyes open, one on the target, and one looking through the tube. In that sense, it works like an electric reflector sight, so that your head position doesn't affect your aim.

Some were telescopic, but they only magnified 1.5 or 2 times at the most. They improved accuracy at long range over iron sights, but they were certainly not used for sniping.

It is seriously misrepresented in Il-2 by the large degree of magnification in gun-sight view. If you want a sense of how tube sights really worked, don't use gun-sight view (but you will not have the advantage of the collimating effect).

Theoretically, DT could fix this by removing the magnified view, and simply projecting a black crosshair in the way that a yellow one is projected on all reflector sights in the game.

[MaxGunz]

Il-2 default is 1/4 the size you would really see. When you look through the sight and see 'magnified' it is how the real would look without magnification.

[Luno13]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Il-2 default is 1/4 the size you would really see. When you look through the sight and see 'magnified' it is how the real would look without magnification.

That depends on your FOV and how far you sit from the screen. Compared to normal view, the gunsight view is magnified, so I think my point stands.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Luno13

This is a huge misconception in Il-2.

Thanks for the correction.

The fact that the collimator tube doesn't give you any actual magnification makes it even more useless, IMO, unless you're dive bombing.

Your suggestion about changing the magnification and the view through the collimator sight would make it more realistic, and also somewhat more useful since you don't lose SA when you go to gunsight view.

Until then, I'll just use iron sights or "Kentucky windage" and make sure I get so close I can count the rivets on the enemy plane before I open fire.

[MaxGunz]

Collimator tube is like having both front and rear sights on a rifle. And btw it is possible to snipe with open sights, been done lots of times. Compare that to machine guns where you watch over the top to see where the hits land.

[Luno13]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Thanks for the correction.

The fact that the collimator tube doesn't give you any actual magnification makes it even more useless, IMO, unless you're dive bombing.

Your suggestion about changing the magnification and the view through the collimator sight would make it more realistic, and also somewhat more useful since you don't lose SA when you go to gunsight view.

Until then, I'll just use iron sights or "Kentucky windage" and make sure I get so close I can count the rivets on the enemy plane before I open fire.

Rise of Flight models colimator tubes nicely. The free version of the game offers the Spad 13 which has both the Aldis and Le Chretien tube sights.

This video shows the Aldis on an Se5a.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_GgylsCbwM

This video shows an Oigee gunsight used on German aircraft in WWI. Notice how the cross-hairs move with the camera, just like with a reflector. This sight also magnifies, but I don't remember how much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfEzrGYHwis

I've used a real collimator tube sight while lining measurements with a total station. The tube is only an inch long, but it's surprisingly accurate for initial targeting. The triangle will always point at the target, no matter the position of my eye.