The Sultan's Alchemist quest....erm, what?

[Totoro]

@OP

Oh please...

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by Totoro

@OP

Oh please...

That sounds like you don't care. Or you don't think it's a relevant issue.

Should we stop caring about 9/11? Should we forget about that too? When terrorists blow up innocent people because they want to impose their will over someone's else, we should forget about that too and say "Oh please..."?

The terrorists seem to care about their Sultanate a whole lot, while butchering innocent people. It certainly seems important to them. Perhaps you should tell them they're wrong.

And when you've lost a family member or someone close because of that nonsense, maybe you will care and want it to go away too, and not have it in your game when you're trying to get away from all that.

That's all a game is. An escape.

[Zechnophobe]

As far as I can tell, you are just a really intolerant person if you think references to any specific religion, especially the fairly historical benign parts, are somehow 'not okay' to have in a game.

The vikings are noticeably Norse. This guy? He's got obvious middle eastern background. What's the big deal?

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

As far as I can tell, you are just a really intolerant person if you think references to any specific religion, especially the fairly historical benign parts, are somehow 'not okay' to have in a game.

The vikings are noticeably Norse. This guy? He's got obvious middle eastern background. What's the big deal?

Fairly historical benign? I don't even...

If a fantasy game with flying horses and giant man eating plants referenced the second coming of Jesus and quoted Aristotle, you better believe it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

The world is supposed to be unique, isn't it? Which means that you cannot use historical connotations, only general ones. You can use middle eastern but you can't use Ottoman anything because that has a connotation you cannot generalize. Which means you cannot use Sultan anything.

English literature is very strict on this kind of thing. You know, time periods, anachronisms, pretty sure there is a definition for this sort of example as a no-no.

As a literary framework, it is not done. And every serious author knows this.

It's not the same thing as basing your story around the Norse gods. Not even remotely close.

[axxis34]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Fairly historical benign? I don't even...

If a fantasy game with flying horses and giant man eating plants referenced the second coming of Jesus and quoted Aristotle, you better believe it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

The world is supposed to be unique, isn't it? Which means that you cannot use historical connotations, only general ones. You can use middle eastern but you can't use Ottoman anything because that has a connotation you cannot generalize. Which means you cannot use Sultan anything.

English literature is very strict on this kind of thing. You know, time periods, anachronisms, pretty sure there is a definition for this sort of example as a no-no.

As a literary framework, it is not done. And every serious author knows this.

It's not the same thing as basing your story around the Norse gods. Not even remotely close.

Ofcourse you can use anything from the middle-east. Did you not read my reply? The vikings were all over the known (and much of the unknown) world at that time! They knew about islam, they knew about christianity, they knew about jews et al. Did they care? Not much. They were happy with their own gods, yet ... they were eventually converted to christianity, by force.

Maybe you should try to wikipedia vikings and see what they really did.

You dont see me bashing christianty right? Even though I would be entitled too, since my ancestors were vikings and were converted to a religion they really didnt want. Hell, Sweden wasnt fully converted until around 1600 or so. Even to this day you have priests of the old norse gods doing their thing.

[KaryAnn]

Originally Posted by axxis34

Ofcourse you can use anything from the middle-east. Did you not read my reply? The vikings were all over the known (and much of the unknown) world at that time! They knew about islam, they knew about christianity, they knew about jews et al. Did they care? Not much. They were happy with their own gods, yet ... they were eventually converted to christianity, by force.

Maybe you should try to wikipedia vikings and see what they really did.

You dont see me bashing christianty right? Even though I would be entitled too, since my ancestors were vikings and were converted to a religion they really didnt want. Hell, Sweden wasnt fully converted until around 1600 or so. Even to this day you have priests of the old norse gods doing their thing.

Of course I read everything you said, the problem you have is that the vikings did all this at different times. They didn't serve as bodyguards for the Sultans as you say while they worshipped Odin. It's a historical anachronism.

You can't just pool such a long history of a people into one segment.

[axxis34]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Of course I read everything you said, the problem you have is that the vikings did all this at different times. They didn't serve as bodyguards for the Sultans as you say while they worshipped Odin. It's a historical anachronism.

You can't just pool such a long history of a people into one segment.

Well, since the viking age only lasted from 793 (plundering of the abbey on Lindisfarne) to 1066 (battle of stamford bridge) they sure did serve as bodyguards while still worshipping the norse gods. There are historical evidence of this, but you can ofcourse choose to ignore it.
I really dont get what you mean by different times? Bear in mind that it wasnt until the 11th century that the "vikings" were considered to be converted to the "new religion" (ie at the end of the viking age)

[Bhruic]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

This is, I'm afraid, an incredibly silly statement. You're confusing culture with religion. There is no mention of Islam, or anything relating to it. There are references to historical Arabic culture. Which is no different than the references in the game to historical Viking culture. You have to be trying awfully hard to get offended by this, as no rational thinker is going to make the leap between "harems" or "Sultans" and Islam.

Heck, if one were to make such a leap, you'd have to assume the game was putting Christianity into the game too by referencing "Kings" and "knights".

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by KaryAnn

Fairly historical benign? I don't even...

If a fantasy game with flying horses and giant man eating plants referenced the second coming of Jesus and quoted Aristotle, you better believe it sticks out like a sore thumb.

This guy isn't referenced as someone who is 'obviously middle eastern' but someone who is and was around where Islam was practiced. Which puts Islam in your whole game setting. Which puts kind of everything else in the whole picture too. It's not unique anymore.

The world is supposed to be unique, isn't it? Which means that you cannot use historical connotations, only general ones. You can use middle eastern but you can't use Ottoman anything because that has a connotation you cannot generalize. Which means you cannot use Sultan anything.

English literature is very strict on this kind of thing. You know, time periods, anachronisms, pretty sure there is a definition for this sort of example as a no-no.

As a literary framework, it is not done. And every serious author knows this.

It's not the same thing as basing your story around the Norse gods. Not even remotely close.

Just two different mythologies, with some overlap. If they had Christian Mythology mixed in (and they do, to a small extend, with priests and inquisitor units), it would not change anything.

[axxis34]

Just in case you didnt know: The Vikings travelled far around the world. They discovered North America as early as around year 1000, they discovered and settled Iceland and Greenland. They had colonies on Ireland and in the Uk and they were given the lands of normandie to safeguard from other vikings. They were the ones that named Russia Russia (ruriks land, wich was shortened to Rusland, and later became russia), they had settlements along the river of volga down to the black sea, they traded with Baghdad, the sultans there even had a bodyguard of Vikings!

The vikings also travelled along the coast in the Mediterranean past the gibraltar strait.

So in essence, no, it is NOT wrong for the game to have this quest, it actually fits withing the games lore (and real history too).

Btw, did you know that the vikings also worshipped Odin, Thor et all? The old Norse Gods? But that you arent complaining about? It is also stated in the game, infact, in the first island! So I dont buy your reasoning.