.50 cal?

[Kira]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

...the MG151/20 weak>>>????

Don't think so, ever since Oleg adjusted the ammo load to include the maximum number of Minen shells after a storm of complaints from the Luftwaffe side, the MG151/20 is now the most powerful 20mm gun in the game, even though the experts rate the Hispano as being superior.

Sounds like you hold a bit of a grudge against blue.

[Kwiatek]

0,50 cal effectivness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVH8dI-ZTbA&fmt=18

[Baron]

Got fed up with the weak (relativly) armement of early jap planes the other week and just to prove a point i swiched sides and climbed into a F4F.

Got 6 Zero kills in one sortie, of wich 2 simply exploded, the rest lost theire wing/wings or started burning..and had ammo to spear at the end of the mission.


50 cals are just fine.


In the ETO its a bit harder, as it should be, but the 50`s are just fine

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Baron

Got fed up with the weak (relativly) armement of early jap planes the other week and just to prove a point i swiched sides and climbed into a F4F.

Got 6 Zero kills in one sortie, of wich 2 simply exploded, the rest lost theire wing/wings or started burning..and had ammo to spear at the end of the mission.


50 cals are just fine.


In the ETO its a bit harder, as it should be, but the 50`s are just fine

Using early Jap planes as an example is completely useless.

You can set them on fire with two LMG's. Anything can set them on fire.

The USN did a complete study of the .50 calibre versus the 20mm Hispano, which included all manner of damage tests.

Their conclusion: Three .50 cals do the equivalent of one 20mm in damage.

The question we have to ask, in the game, does an aircraft with six wingmount 50 cals, such as a Mustang D, do the same damage as an aircraft with two 20mm in the wings, such as a Spitfire. I know that most of the time, I don't bother firing the LMG's in the Spitfire wing, I save them for defence after I run out of 20mm's. And I find the Spitfire's guns far more effective than a Mustang D's.

[Brain32]

And if you really read all those pilot accunts you posted here, none of them was dead six shot, the most usual line being "...I observed strikes over fuselage and cockpit...".
Well ofcourse the .50 could penetrate plexiglass, especially at deflections you see comonly described in those pilot accounts, that's hardly an achievement.

What happens in-game though is another thing, dead six pilot kills, controls shot off/jammed, not to mention what kind of skin damage can 50 cal make in-game, it's pretty funny that it does not matter if 20mm or 50cal hit you in the wing, you will often loose 100kmh+ and struggle to keep a level flight after only one or very few 50cal hits.
All this adjusted by Oleg and Co after years and years of crusade for the super powered 50cal, point convergence, box convergence, sync them, unsync them, make them smell funny..., seriously I believe Oleg starts considering a vacation every time he sees yet ANOTHER "My 50cal's can't explode Tiger tanks!!!" thread.

One could write a book about il2sturmovik game called:
"Exploding a Triptiz with a single bullet: A dream of a 50cal."


Yeah just keep throwing pilot accounts and spread some more BS, maybe in SoW too late 109's will struggle to manouver with P47, Tempests will fly like light aerobatic planes and any idiot will be able to win the teh war before his wife comes home.
Well atleast it will sell great

[KG26_Alpha]

Testing the new moderator are we ???



Seriously though this thread is redundant.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

I flew the P-51 a lot and I really like the 50s in the game. You usually have to aim a bit better than with most large-caliber-guns, but they are surely not undermodelled if used correctly.

(if at all the damage-model is undermodelled and of course the pilots are undermodelled. In RL if you shreddered a plane or got it smoking, it would retreat. In IL2 it fights back until it explodes and even if it turns and runs, some a$$hat will follow even wingless and burning wracks to get the final shot in and earn the 100 points.)

The circle of the P-51 is set to a FW-190 IIRC at 175 yards. As a yard is .9144 meters, you can set your convergence at 150-160meters. Now if the wingtips of a 190 touch the sides of the ring, with the fuselage in the center, you have a maximum kill chance and it mostly is a kill with a short burst at that range.

At ranges of 300m you can try sniping. In some very stable planes like the P-38 or a trimmed P-47 you can be lucky to get a Pilot-Kill or critical hit on controls or the engine, usually though, you see a lot of hits and small debris coming off, but do little damage.
The Cal50 bullets do their damage primarily through inertial energy, they lose effectiveness dramatically over that distance and they scatter a lot more. Convergence at 300m means that a lot less bullets actually hit the convergence-point than at 150m range.

I think you mean the pilot & damage are a bit over modelled yes? I agree too... IRL no pilot would fly around in a burning plane unless he couldnt get out... and of course if he couldnt get out he couldnt fly around and still try to shoot you down either... like the AI in this sim often do..

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

I think 0,50 cal are not undermodelled but i think pilot health is too good in game. Mostly attack from 0,50 cal from six o clock should heavy wounded or just killed pilot. No WW2 fighter have armour plate which could hold 0,50 bullet. In game you could shoting from 0,50 cal to e.x. Fw190 or 109 from six o clock and PK happend very rare. YOu could PK only from angle- deflection shoting in canopy. In WW2 P-51 and P-47 very often wounded or killed german pilots with such rear attacks. In game shoting from six o clock position is just wasting ammo should wounded or killed pilot but these doesn't happend :/

Exacty .. hey Kwaitek are you the pilot formerly known as Kwaitos that was an UberKiller in the FB.o P-47 a few years back?

Originally Posted by JG27CaptStubing

There have been like over 10 zillion discussions over on at the zoo regarding the .50s.
Here is the deal in short. The .50s hit great and they do quite a bit of damage period.
The challenge with them is their accuracy in the game. Wheather it's right or wrong it really doesn't matter but the fact is they aren't very accurate far out. Set your convergence <200 meters and don't shoot until you are well with in that range. The 50s hit quite nice.

Rgr that.. not only that but stick settings are veryh important with the 50s depending on the plane.. the P-40 is a much more stable platform than the P-51 or the Corsair.... and therefore it gives the apperarance of having different .50s.. If you increase the deadzone I& fitlering on your controls you will find a bit more accuracy .. especially in the P-51.

[Thunderbolt56]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Testing the new moderator are we ???



Seriously though this thread is redundant.

lmao...ya think?

[mondo]

I don't agree. Getting your convergance right and getting some personal discipline to fire only at that convergence isn't that hard.

I think the real problem is managing peoples expectations. People see gun cam and think why can't I do that? Then you go back to the gun cam and look at just how close the planes were to each other. That never seems to be taken up by any forum discussions on the .50 topics, all 50 bazillion of them.

Originally Posted by Brain32

And if you really read all those pilot accunts you posted here, none of them was dead six shot, the most usual line being "...I observed strikes over fuselage and cockpit...".
Well ofcourse the .50 could penetrate plexiglass, especially at deflections you see comonly described in those pilot accounts, that's hardly an achievement.

I think thats part of the problem. People sit behind the dead 6 of a 190 at 500m, shoot 1000 rounds and see 50 strikes and expect miracles. The British did those tests on the 190 and showed that at a distance firing on a dead 6 at the 190 won't do particularly much unless you get lucky. More to the point, as you say, I don't think I've ever seen gun cam footage of a fighter destroying another fighter with .50's at 500m on its dead 6, more like 100m to 150m.

[DKoor]

Originally Posted by mondo

I don't agree. Getting your convergance right and getting some personal discipline to fire only at that convergence isn't that hard.

I think the real problem is managing peoples expectations. People see gun cam and think why can't I do that? Then you go back to the gun cam and look at just how close the planes were to each other. That never seems to be taken up by any forum discussions on the .50 topics, all 50 bazillion of them.



I think thats part of the problem. People sit behind the dead 6 of a 190 at 500m, shoot 1000 rounds and see 50 strikes and expect miracles. The British did those tests on the 190 and showed that at a distance firing on a dead 6 at the 190 won't do particularly much unless you get lucky. More to the point, as you say, I don't think I've ever seen gun cam footage of a fighter destroying another fighter with .50's at 500m on its dead 6, more like 100m to 150m.

+1


In game we can rip the **** out of any aerial target at 200m with .50cals.

Dead 6.