MW50 -Secondary effects were cooling of the engine .

[HundertneunGustav]

you are trying hard, so
+1 credit for that


yet, a lot of questions remain un-answered.
i know nothing of either cars nor plane engines, so i can only advise to be careful.

a) the system you present is a modern one - differences between modern W/M injection systems and technology from 1942 should, must be studied before claiming "the effect is the same - it cools the engine"

b) are the fluids used chemically the same?

c) how did pilots operate the system? what were their experiences, advantages and drawbacks, dangers?

d) okay, so... lets take it easy. lets say, the engine is cooled. The Db-60x series are a big piece of machinery, so , more specific questions must be figured out.
-what exact part(s) of the engine will lose temperature?
-how much?
-what does that change to engine operation, and how is power output effected?

Because:
uuhhh, ahhhh, modern systems cool the engine, so, in a 109 that means i get -35° temperature loss, and that again means i can have longer MW50 operation...

--> not commonsense, simplification.
and simplification can not be our common goal, or we would be playing Ace combat.
--> common sense is to preserve your engine, because your life depends on it.
--> not closed eyes, no! eyes wide open, and very critical, analytic, observing, asking questions.

Every time you start a flight, you get a perfectly new plane - right? systems are 100% healthy. There is no option to "use the plane from the last flight" - the game does not remember if you respected the manual last time you flew it. if you used MW50 for too long (7 seconds? 2 seconds?) or if you respected the 5 minutes pause (4:55?)

So, by
- misinterpreting engine and boost systems facts,
- and engine manual, and OKL recommendations,
- and 2x10 with 5 min pause could be possibly maybe correct(?)

-> and then getting a new plane for the next flight... that... is cheating.

Recently, TD has taught us to respect the engine, the Hardware:
you pull too many G- you die
you push too many G - you die
you play with the Throttles like a maniac: you die

basically:
You push your plane to the very extreme corner of its possibilities: you die.
Do not do that, or you will die.

so even IF this system could possibly improve performance of the Db-60X powered planes...
you die.

And NOT DYING... is common sense.

[Mustang]

a) the system you present is a modern one - differences between modern W/M injection systems and technology from 1942 should, must be studied before claiming "the effect is the same - it cools the engine"

Water cools the engine in present and in 1942 .
Read my link
You can buy and put Water/ Methanol kit in any engine virtually, with the same results .

b) are the fluids used chemically the same?
"

Yes common wather and common methanol
No secrets here.

d) okay, so... lets take it easy. lets say, the engine is cooled. The Db-60x series are a big piece of machinery, so , more specific questions must be figured out.
-what exact part(s) of the engine will lose temperature?
-how much?
-what does that change to engine operation, and how is power output effected?

The P51 have many problems like this

C.C. Jordan=

I have data that indicates that the
P-51D, measures 48 lbs in a 3g pull. Up to 86 Lbs at
5g's.
The P-47D, OTOH, requires just 16 lbs at 3g and 27 lbs at 5g's.
The testers state that the Mustang was a true "two hander".

Just do something.
If special ignore other things
Thanks to these omissions
My P51 can be turn with the BF 109


Ok forget Mustang Sorry

Because:
uuhhh, ahhhh, modern systems cool the engine, so, in a 109 that means i get -35° temperature loss, and that again means i can have longer MW50 operation...

The luftwaffe tell you. The mw 50 not work over 6000 mts, for system freezes.

Every time you start a flight, you get a perfectly new plane - right? systems are 100% healthy. There is no option to "use the plane from the last flight" - the game does not remember if you respected the manual last time you flew it. if you used MW50 for too long (7 seconds? 2 seconds?) or if you respected the 5 minutes pause (4:55?)

Like the others planes have the same.

For MW50.
"it can only do good things. Since the water and methanol will help dissolve carbon buildup, it can keep your spark plugs, valves, and combustion chambers very clean, too!."

basically:
You push your plane to the very extreme corner of its possibilities: you die.
Do not do that, or you will die.

so even IF this system could possibly improve performance of the Db-60X powered planes...
you die.

And NOT DYING... is common sense.

I'll just say one thing

Are debunking current evidence
Of water methanol , Works.

Is a Fact.

[RPS69]

Maybe the right question to ask TD is:

What would be the right plane attitude, to get the fastest possible climb using MW50 to a maximum of 10 minutes in game without overheating the engine?

Every plane has a best speed of climb, which combines engine cooling capability vs engine power applied vs Prop Pitch. No point on getting up there with an useless plane.

If there is an in game, intended climbing attitude with MW50, and it is better than without it, then the point is closed.

Now, if it is there not, Mustang will have the right to paraphrase Oleg himself with a different engineer nationality... "Do you think Russian engineers were morons?!"

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Maybe the right question to ask TD is:
. "Do you think Russian engineers were morons?!"

Surely not !
The La 5 its a good plane!

Due to airflow limitations, the engine boost system (Forsazh) could not be used above 2,000 meters .
Stability in all axes was generally good. The authority of the ailerons was deemed exceptional but the rudder was insufficiently powerful at lower speeds.
Horizontal turn time at 1,000 m (3,281 ft) and maximum engine power was 25 seconds.

But I always see things wrong
I try not to use capital letters for ... but is very dificult



I just have a question.
Someone saw the dive test for BF 109... 906 Kms reached without losing the wings.

In IL2 the Bf 109 loose elevator authority at 470 - 530 Kms... and is wrong.

In dive test With little trim
The pilot pulled out dive just using the stick at 850 kms.

About the 86 lbs in the stick at 5g in the Mustang....
Ok forget Mustang Sorry



.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Surely not !
In dive test With little trim
The pilot pulled out dive just using the stick at 850 kms.

About the 86 lbs in the stick at 5g in the Mustang....
Ok forget Mustang Sorry



.

Online play would be far more interesting if we all had to use force-feedback sticks that required historically correct strength to move the controls.

Though I am sure some people would cheat and get their wife or girlfriend to help pull out of dives. Not sure how to avoid that.

[BadAim]

Can you people not see that this is just one more Whistling Death disciple? All he is doing is blowing smoke up your Butts. He has nothing but the obvious wisdom from on high, and will accept nothing any of you say no matter how logical if it does not agree with the gospel according to WD.

Mustang. STFU. No one cares.

Reason out.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by BadAim

All he is doing is blowing smoke up your Butts.

.

I think many are going to stay with you.
I'll stay with the truth
Although many do not like, the truth

Is the year 2012
Physics is the same now and in 1942

"Do you think German engineers were morons?!"

Of course ??

A tank of water methanol for 23 minutes in BF 109.
And the FW 190 D9 has tank of water methanol for 39 minutes.
"But don't use them"

"OK 23 and 39 minutes of Water methanol.. for over over OVERHEAT THE ENGINE.....German engineers were morons?"
Of Course !!!

"We put the water methanol tanks only to add extra weight"




The weight of reality is unsustainable

========>

and as the mixture absorbs heat and vaporizes,
temperatures inside the cylinder are reduced= cooling

2) Can water/meth injection damage my engine?
With most aftermarket parts there's always the possibility of damage, but not if the unit is installed and used properly. As long as the injection system is working properly, it can only do good things. Since the water and methanol will help dissolve carbon buildup, it can keep your spark plugs, valves, and combustion chambers very clean, too.

Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1ownDQALK


3) Can you run just water injection without methanol?
Yes, but you will not be able to take advantage of the octane-boosting properties of methanol, thus you will get cooling from the water, but no increase in octane.
Without methanol, you may not make as much power.

Read more: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...#ixzz1owmmuqxK

= cooling

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by BadAim

Can you people not see that this is just one more Whistling Death disciple? All he is doing is blowing smoke up your Butts. He has nothing but the obvious wisdom from on high, and will accept nothing any of you say no matter how logical if it does not agree with the gospel according to WD.

Mustang. STFU. No one cares.

Reason out.

The problem seems to be too much time spent on new age "miracle invention" websites trying to sell dodgy water injection kits for cars.

That and a total confusion between cooling the charge/manifold temperatures allowing more boost (and potentially cooling the heads very very slightly) versus cooling the entire engine.

[Mustang]

In BF 109 and FW 190 D9
YOU HAVE A BIG TANK OF WATHER METHANOL = 23 and 39 minutes of capacity.

They can not be used....
They not cool the engine... you can only get overheat..

The wather methaol works in BF 109 and FW 190 D9 at full power of Throttle.

What is the reason for such large tanks... If you can´t use ?

Now You need to be the magician merlin to use it and dont break the engine at full power?...
You would need change 3 engines...??

The answer is no..

"octane-boosting properties of methanol, and you get cooling from the water"

otherwise...

How you do? for.. to empty a tank of 39 minutes Wather/Mehanol in FW 190 D9 ?

German engineers were morons?!"

[Shardur]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

That and a total confusion between cooling the charge/manifold temperatures allowing more boost (and potentially cooling the heads very very slightly) versus cooling the entire engine.

The combustion chambers in an engine are the main source of heat, so cooling them will in turn actually cool the entire engine.

There was a question raised somewhere earlier if the MW50 actually raises engine power:
as per http://kurfurst.org/Engine/DB60x/DB6...sheets_DB.html

On the DB-605DB
At 0km altitude usable power is 1430hp without and 1850hp with MW50 (+-2,5%).
At 6km altitude usable power is 1285hp without and 1600hp with MW50 (+-2,5%).
(1800hp at 0km or 1550hp at 6km can also be gained by using better C-3 fuel and no MW50 instead of the lower grade B-4 fuel + MW50)

The DB-605DC engine that is optimized for C-3 fuel generates 2000hp at 0km with the MW50 active and 1800hp at 4.9km. (+-2,5%)

As an engineering student I can also say that systems that worked in the 40s work the same way today and are usually just optimized. We can't change the physical or chemical bases the systems work on, we can only fine tune the systems to take more effect.

Looking at the 109 and its role as a short range interceptor that tried to save wight wherever it could it is highly unlikely that someone would put a 23min tank on it, if it was not possible to use it.