4.11 - AI debugging

[Treetop64]

Really diggin' the new patch, but one persistent problem with the AI continues:

I'm still getting hammered by the AA fire over my own airfield when defending it.

EDIT - Sorry, one more thing later observed. AI formation keeping is much worse now than in previous versions:

Flying Amagi's "Disaster on the Frontiers", Sturmovik campaign, first couple of days in the L'vov map at the beginning of Barbarossa, in the I-153 as a Mladshiy Leitenant. In a 9-ship formation I'm the tail guy in the third fight. In previous versions of the game it was not difficult at all to keep a good formation with the AI. There was only a little bit of "formation wobble" and I only had to occasionally modulate the throttle in small amounts to maintain position.

In v4.11 however, every minute or so the AI (in the third flight, don't know about the first two...) seems to suddenly cut way back on the throttle, drop back for a moment or two, then suddenly apply full power for another few seconds, forcing me to make similarly drastic changes in throttle just to keep up. Also, every few minutes the whole formation will suddenly descend a few tens of meters, then come back up to the assigned cruise altitude again.

As a result, at least as a tail-end junior pilot, it has now become very difficult - in fact, nearly impossible - to keep any kind of good formation with the AI. They're all over the place now.

As a qualifier, I have flown formations as a junior pilot with the AI over several campaigns, and can humbly and reliably state that I have gotten quite good at it.

Thanks!

[ZaltysZ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdw0Y...ature=youtu.be

Pe-8 in question lacks the rudder, however I still think it is just showing off, because it eventually returns to level flight and continues its flight nicely. Shouldn't AI be more conservative with maneuvers in such heavies?

[MadCat242]

Hello gentlemen,
I have been a forum lurker for quite some time now but now I want to help improve that fantastic patch.

I experienced an odd ai behaviour:
QMB 2 bf109 against 4 ai novice il-4. Crimea map.
- 1st pass head-on: damaged no.4. (lost one of his engines -> crew bailed)
- 2nd attack from 6 o clock : I hit the wingleader. Several hits on one wing, damaged his tailplane, smoking engine -> bomber rolls over, going into a steep dive, slowly recovers (guess due to increased speed) and crew bails.
-> entire AI flight (no. 2 and 3) flipped over as well and followed their leader...
The moment No1 started bailing the other 2 went back to level flight and headed north.

Is that on purpose? Did the ai "thought" their leader is leading them into that dive? Blindly following orders? Or did the ai just didn't switch to "hes going down, no need to follow. No.2 is the new boss"?

PS: I installed that hotfix aswell

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by MadCat242

Hello gentlemen,
Is that on purpose? Did the ai "thought" their leader is leading them into that dive? Blindly following orders? Or did the ai just didn't switch to "hes going down, no need to follow. No.2 is the new boss"?PS: I installed that hotfix aswell

There was the example in Erich Hartmann's book where an entire flight of IL2s with heavy bomb loads followed their squadron leaders bad maneuver and they all hit the ground.

I have often thought that any fantastic thing we have ever seen happen in this sim probably happened in WWII at least once also!

[FC99]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

Pe-8 in question lacks the rudder, however I still think it is just showing off, because it eventually returns to level flight and continues its flight nicely. Shouldn't AI be more conservative with maneuvers in such heavies?

He is just trying to stabilize his plane, this is not a designed maneuver.

Originally Posted by Juri_JS

All aircraft types with air-to-ground rockets are affected by the late pull up issue during ship attacks and also all large caliber aircraft that are able to do strafing attacks on ships.

I have something ready for 4.11.1, thanks for reporting the problem and helping with missions.

Originally Posted by slm

From what I've read, when their plane got hit so there was serious damage pilots often knew it soon and announced it to other pilots **long before using parachute**. Of course the pilot doesn't always know how far his plane can continue flying, but I think it would be great if this "unable to continue mission" could be simulated at least in some cases. Especially when bombers are flying in formation towards target and the lead plane is hit and thus cannot keep planned speed/altitude anymore.

We have this in mind but what is easy for human is not necessarily the same for AI. That's what is "hard", what info to provide to AI and make him react correctly. Don't worry, we will do something about it.

Originally Posted by Fall_Pink?

Various things

- I'll do something about jets.
- RTB command will send your flight home,you will continue to fly further. If you want everybody,including you,to go home use "Next Waypoint" command until only one is left, that should send everybody home.(Just a guess about this one, try it )

- Wingmans too low during attack, IIRC I made new formation just for that case, I'll have to check if somebody changed it or it is not applied to fighters too. ( I had dive bombers in mind while doing it)

I'm not offended by bug reports and reasonable complaints, this actually helps. Trolling is what is evil and I would never accuse you that.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I like most of the AI improvements .. but one thing that still sticks in my craw is the fact that AI will still keep flying after getting flamed. I can see if it is an engine fire and the plane goes into a dive .. but a wing fire .. the pilot should bail... or crash ... or bail and then crash .. but he definitely should not continue flying and even shooting..

There is a part of the code which should deal with this, I'll check if something is wrong there.

FC

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by FC99

There is a part of the code which should deal with this, I'll check if something is wrong there.

FC

Here is a short video ..

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Now I know that the AI went into a dive to put out the fire... but we were not that high ... and I have heard of engine fires being put out that way but not wing fires

Why shouldn't a fire in the wing go out if you dive? The whole idea is that the hard dive deprives the fire of oxygen and heat it goes out, just like blowing out a match.

Another factor is that, realistically, the pilot could divert fuel from the damaged tank, or else the fire consumes all the fuel. Once the fuel is gone, no more fire, since duralloy aluminum doesn't burn that well.

Mind you, I'm not letting the AI or the damage modeling off the hook here, but if you were in combat and you had a fire that went out, leaving the plane basically flyable, wouldn't you fight on if circumstances demanded it?

Looking at the video, if you told me that a player was flying the Ki-84 that got shot up, the behavior wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Juri_JS]

Originally Posted by FC99

I have something ready for 4.11.1, thanks for reporting the problem and helping with missions.

Thank you for your efforts FC99.
Can you tell me if there is any news on the Mosquito ship attack issue? I am asking because it seriously hampers one of my campaign projects.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Juri_JS

Thank you for your efforts FC99.
Can you tell me if there is any news on the Mosquito ship attack issue? I am asking because it seriously hampers one of my campaign projects.

All issues in your missions are solved. Mosquitoes attacks and avoid crashing into targets.

[Letum]

I have a mission with some P-38s tank busting.
They are set to GAttack some tanks that are set as the target at the waypoint.

The P38s approach the tanks at 2.5k and drop their bombs as if they where heavy bombers. Is this normal? I don't remember this behaviour pre-patch.