Is the comunity manager coming in ?

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Are you serious ??

They have been called everything from thieves and liars to personal insults and being ridiculed at this forum.

You wonder why they stick to a native language forum for communication , its a no brainer for me !!

Anyway they seem to be getting on great at the other forum with its members giving good support and development feedback, why you think this is a bad thing I have no idea, they are getting the help they need there.

.

Frankly, this is the attitude that keeps me from posting here anymore. They wouldn't get such a negative reaction on this forum if they took the time to interact properly, as they do on sukhoi.ru.

Language has nothing to do with it - if you sell a product internationally, you are expected to provide support internationally. Restricting your updates to a Russian forum upsets the international community using this forum, many of whom do not use English as their first language either. If they actually interacted properly here (as Luthier has shown he is capable of doing) and did it regularly, not just when they feel like it, they would generate far more good will and would get just as much 'help' as they are getting on the russian forum.

Silence breeds the assumption of contempt; this is where the insults start. Ali makes a valid point: they sold a game in a very poor state, as we all know, and have since been very sparing with the information they provide. We do trust that work is being done, and we see it in the patches, but it's the month or more of silence in between that gets people's backs up.

Communication is important. 4x devs Kerberos just released a game in as bad a state as CloD was at release, but they have communicated constantly on their forums, apologised, offered various DLC incentives alongside a full and open refund system and even given a free copy of their previous game to buyers willing to wait for the new product to be fixed. As a result, they have retained a lot more goodwill (and sales, for that matter).

Would it really be so difficult for the Russian community manager to post to two websites instead of one? The fact that people are clamouring for even a google-translated version (and scouring sukhoi.ru themselves) should tell you something: they don't care if it's poor translated Engrish, they just want to know what's going on.

You can bluster all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a poor way to conduct business, and as long as they continue in this fashion they will generate insults and invective. A little talk goes a long way sometimes, and Luthier's updates are a great start - but I'd wager the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

The bare minimum isn't enough anymore, and by acting like this, they ignore and isolate over half their (incredibly dedicated) fanbase, when that fanbase could be helping them instead. What a waste, all for the want of a weekly update and some community involvement.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

Frankly, this is the attitude that keeps me from posting here anymore. They wouldn't get such a negative reaction on this forum if they took the time to interact properly, as they do on sukhoi.ru.

Language has nothing to do with it - if you sell a product internationally, you are expected to provide support internationally. Restricting your updates to a Russian forum upsets the international community using this forum, many of whom do not use English as their first language either. If they actually interacted properly here (as Luthier has shown he is capable of doing) and did it regularly, not just when they feel like it, they would generate far more good will and would get just as much 'help' as they are getting on the russian forum.

Silence breeds the assumption of contempt; this is where the insults start. Ali makes a valid point: they sold a game in a very poor state, as we all know, and have since been very sparing with the information they provide. We do trust that work is being done, and we see it in the patches, but it's the month or more of silence in between that gets people's backs up.

Communication is important. 4x devs Kerberos just released a game in as bad a state as CloD was at release, but they have communicated constantly on their forums, apologised, offered various DLC incentives alongside a full and open refund system and even given a free copy of their previous game to buyers willing to wait for the new product to be fixed. As a result, they have retained a lot more goodwill (and sales, for that matter).

Would it really be so difficult for the Russian community manager to post to two websites instead of one? The fact that people are clamouring for even a google-translated version (and scouring sukhoi.ru themselves) should tell you something: they don't care if it's poor translated Engrish, they just want to know what's going on.

You can bluster all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a poor way to conduct business, and as long as they continue in this fashion they will generate insults and invective. A little talk goes a long way sometimes, and Luthier's updates are a great start - but I'd wager the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

The bare minimum isn't enough anymore, and by acting like this, they ignore and isolate over half their (incredibly dedicated) fanbase, when that fanbase could be helping them instead. What a waste, all for the want of a weekly update and some community involvement.

Well said mate!

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

Frankly, this is the attitude that keeps me from posting here anymore. They wouldn't get such a negative reaction on this forum if they took the time to interact properly, as they do on sukhoi.ru.

Language has nothing to do with it - if you sell a product internationally, you are expected to provide support internationally. Restricting your updates to a Russian forum upsets the international community using this forum, many of whom do not use English as their first language either. If they actually interacted properly here (as Luthier has shown he is capable of doing) and did it regularly, not just when they feel like it, they would generate far more good will and would get just as much 'help' as they are getting on the russian forum.

Silence breeds the assumption of contempt; this is where the insults start. Ali makes a valid point: they sold a game in a very poor state, as we all know, and have since been very sparing with the information they provide. We do trust that work is being done, and we see it in the patches, but it's the month or more of silence in between that gets people's backs up.

Communication is important. 4x devs Kerberos just released a game in as bad a state as CloD was at release, but they have communicated constantly on their forums, apologised, offered various DLC incentives alongside a full and open refund system and even given a free copy of their previous game to buyers willing to wait for the new product to be fixed. As a result, they have retained a lot more goodwill (and sales, for that matter).

Would it really be so difficult for the Russian community manager to post to two websites instead of one? The fact that people are clamouring for even a google-translated version (and scouring sukhoi.ru themselves) should tell you something: they don't care if it's poor translated Engrish, they just want to know what's going on.

You can bluster all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a poor way to conduct business, and as long as they continue in this fashion they will generate insults and invective. A little talk goes a long way sometimes, and Luthier's updates are a great start - but I'd wager the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

The bare minimum isn't enough anymore, and by acting like this, they ignore and isolate over half their (incredibly dedicated) fanbase, when that fanbase could be helping them instead. What a waste, all for the want of a weekly update and some community involvement.

This shows you have not read or understood anything I posted.

We know the state of the game in the beginning ....... that's history but as things move forwards people like to still go back and use this old whine.

The Russian community manager has already explained why he wont be posting here.

Oleg gave up posting updates ............ in this words,

"dammed if I do and dammed if I don't"

In the end he didn't.

The constant bashing does have an affect, if they get a better response elsewhere and can use that to move forwards then where's the problem.

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

[Ctrl E]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

This shows you have not read or understood anything I posted.

We know the state of the game in the beginning ....... that's history but as things move forwards people like to still go back and use this old whine.

The Russian community manager has already explained why he wont be posting here.

Oleg gave up posting updates ............ in this words,

"dammed if I do and dammed if I don't"

In the end he didn't.

The constant bashing does have an affect, if they get a better response elsewhere and can use that to move forwards then where's the problem.

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

Hang on mate - you can't just say the state of the game ot release "is history". we're still dealing with that botched release and the mistruths told in the lead up to its release.

Customers were and remain justifiably angry about how the release was handled.

But amazingly - and despite being dudded - they remain loyal to this product. Yet every time they seek more information or help the simply have salt rubbed in their wounds with situations like this.

1c needs to start communicating properly in this - the official forum. Re-gaining respect is a long road back.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by Ctrl E

Hang on mate - you can't just say the state of the game ot release "is history". we're still dealing with that botched release and the mistruths told in the lead up to its release.

Customers were and remain justifiably angry about how the release was handled.

But amazingly - and despite being dudded - they remain loyal to this product. Yet every time they seek more information or help the simply have salt rubbed in their wounds with situations like this.

1c needs to start communicating properly in this - the official forum. Re-gaining respect is a long road back.

I agree but were a long way down the line from the release version, and still its used to complain about the current a state of the game.

Originally Posted by Insuber

Alpha, when you blame us for "insulting" the devs, who in retaliation are not willing to communicate with us, while the Russian users are so polite and gentle and helpful to deserve a community manager, are you speaking on the basis of solid info or you are just reading this interesting story into your personal crystal ball ?

Where did I blame any one for anything ?

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

This shows you have not read or understood anything I posted.

We know the state of the game in the beginning ....... that's history but as things move forwards people like to still go back and use this old whine.

The Russian community manager has already explained why he wont be posting here.

Oleg gave up posting updates ............ in this words,

"dammed if I do and dammed if I don't"

In the end he didn't.

The constant bashing does have an affect, if they get a better response elsewhere and can use that to move forwards then where's the problem.

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

'This shows you have not read or understood anything I posted' is ironic, because I had the same reaction to your reply. There are far fewer trolls here now than there were at release, anyone spending any time here can see that, and to tar the entire non-russian community with that brush is pointless and wasteful. You know as well as I do that dev posts here are met with more praise than anger nowadays, so the 'damned if I do, damned if I don't' line doesn't hold water, not least because it was Oleg that said that, and Oleg is no longer here.

I don't believe for a second that there are somehow fewer trolls in Russia, or that sukhoi.ru is a haven of peaceful co-operation. There, as here, moderating the outright insults and moving the worthy arguments is the job of forum moderators like yourself - if that's not happening and the devs (who should have thicker skins) are getting upset, then you're not shielding them from the worst of it, and you need more moderators, or just better ones.

And as the 'bashing' (which, let's be honest, is not actually constant; you're over-dramatising, as most of the posts here seem to be fairly sensible) has an effect, so do the long periods of silence have an effect. The longer the silence, the more effort it takes to regain the trust of the people you have ignored - so yes, it will take some effort to regain that trust. But the alternative is a split community, which is never good for a game - and more bashing. And so the cycle continues, until someone is brave enough to break it.

And no, you're right, we've not 'lost' anything. But the reaction to this, and the constant and ongoing calls for communication and involvement continue, should tell you that the great majority of people here want to be positive, want to help, and to be involved. They care about this game just as much as the Russians do, and they're shut out because a few trolls scared the devs, who, to be quite honest, must have known they were going to get some flak when they released the game in that state.

Retreating to 'their side of the border' is just plain hiding - it's always been hiding, and it always will be. In the end they just damage themselves by isolating and ignoring their customers, wasting an enormous community resource and leave it to people like you to tell us that the only people worthy of involvement are Russians (because they live in a world magically free of trolls).

So no, you really didn't read (or at least, understand) a word I said in the last post. I doubt you'll fare any better this time either, but I live in hope. This community has some really decent people who don't deserve to be tarred by the actions of others, and drinking the kool-aid in this way, frankly, does them a disservice.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

The constant bashing does have an affect, if they get a better response elsewhere and can use that to move forwards then where's the problem.

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

You got it wrong I guess.
From a community manager, the community expects interactions, or a least actions in the sense of posting news, progress etc.
Now, if they refuse to communicate with this part here, we're obviously not part of the community - right?
They reject us, most here feel like customers though. Not sooo cool.

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

+1 . You speak the truth, pal.

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

You must be the only one then. It is easy to understand, THESE are 1C company forums, not Su.ru as far as I know, and here is where customers expect feedback from the company which is actually selling the product they bought, full stop.

It is not as difficult to understand that Microsoft corporate communications to their customers are made on Microsoft's forums or portals not on Apple's, is it?. (or at least there is where Microsoft customers go when looking for Microsoft's products related info, they must have an important reason to do so I guess).