A newbies impression of the 109 and spit

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Except that everyone knows that Quill is khmm... the most outspoken priest of the Spitfire ever. If you ask Quill, the thing had no faults

I find it a bit of a failure in job description that a test pilot would not report any faults because he thought it was perfect. Get real Kurfurst.

[fruitbat]

I just find it pure comedy gold that Kurfursts arrogance and general hatred of the Spit is such that he genuinely believes that he knows more about Spits that Quill did.

says everything you need to know.

[Crumpp]

A violent spin if you push past the boundary is again nothing to worry about,

Sure, in an aircraft with acceptable stability and control characteristics...

If you don't have that then the pilot can kill himself and turn the aircraft to aluminum confetti as the Spitfire Operating Notes tells you.

[Crumpp]

Quill

Keep in mind that pilots in the 1930's and 1940's were not the technical experts found in today's aviation world.

They were practical pilots who got there mostly on their courage. It was felt that it was beyond the pilots comprehension to delve too deeply into the science of flight.

Pilots were given a rudimentary knowledge of aerodynamics at best and strict left/right limits required to operate the aircraft.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Keep in mind that pilots in the 1930's and 1940's were not the technical experts found in today's aviation world.

They were practical pilots who got there mostly on their courage. It was felt that it was beyond the pilots comprehension to delve too deeply into the science of flight.

Pilots were given a rudimentary knowledge of aerodynamics at best and strict left/right limits required to operate the aircraft.

ie: Quill was a no nothing pilot who just operated the controls and hoped for the best - yeah right! Interesting how Barbi and Crumpp now attack one of the most highly regarded test plots of his generation because they don't like what he wrote about the Spitfire...way to go guys!

[Kurfürst]

Well we just noted that Quills opinion is at odd with the very detailed testing findings of RAE, NACA and E'Stelle Rechlin. I am quite sure you are right that all these organisations experience objectiveness in testing aircraft and assessing their flying qualities pales in comparison with that of the manufacturer's own test pilot.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Keep in mind that pilots in the 1930's and 1940's were not the technical experts found in today's aviation world.

They were practical pilots who got there mostly on their courage. It was felt that it was beyond the pilots comprehension to delve too deeply into the science of flight.

Pilots were given a rudimentary knowledge of aerodynamics at best and strict left/right limits required to operate the aircraft.

Partly true, however the UK were the first to train test pilots in the 40's Germany and the USA didn't.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Sure, in an aircraft with acceptable stability and control characteristics...

If you don't have that then the pilot can kill himself and turn the aircraft to aluminum confetti as the Spitfire Operating Notes tells you.

You push any aircraft past its limits and failure may happen. However it is a rare case. What I find intersting is that you don't take note of the comments from the German pilots who flew the Spitfire and said that it was easier to fly than the 109, or the Jugoslav pilots who flew the Hurricane and Me109. Why do you just ignore that?

Does anyone have the pilots notes for the 109, I am confident that if they are to the same scope then they will have their won warnings.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

What I find intersting is that you don't take note of the comments from the German pilots who flew the Spitfire and said that it was easier to fly than the 109, or the Jugoslav pilots who flew the Hurricane and Me109. Why do you just ignore that?

Because you haven't shown any...? I believe Moelders stated that the Spitfire and Hurricane are easier to land than the 109. He also added that they are otherwise miserable as fighter aircraft.

Does anyone have the pilots notes for the 109, I am confident that if they are to the same scope then they will have their won warnings.

Yes I have. It doesn't have any of the longitudal stability references as the Spitfire pilot's notes, however. There are a few similarities - both manuals warn the pilot against the dangers of using the ailerons too hard in dives, as there is a danger of structural failure (twisting forces).

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Because you haven't shown any...? I believe Moelders stated that the Spitfire and Hurricane are easier to land than the 109. He also added that they are otherwise miserable as fighter aircraft.

Molders:
"It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land

The Spitfire is one class better. It handles well, is light on the controls, faultless in the turn and has a performance approaching that of the Bf 109......"

And he only had an 87 octane 2 stage prop aeroplane to test which is why he goes on to criticise it a little. I guess he changed his mind after the Battle of Britain lol