Friday Update, April 13, 2012

[csThor]

Originally Posted by king1hw

Interesting that the number of Hurricanes in the fight number 534 planes during the battle of Britain and this fight must have competed well with ROOKIE pilots. Also was flying @ 12lbs boost before the war even got started. Also the Spitfire flown by Rooks. with no more then 10 plus hours were engaging 109s far superior pilot skills but yet the only thing to keep the lads alive was the MACHINE if so poor to your historical standards then Britain would have been German. This is getting so frustrating to get any plane in the game that can compete what the heck. I don't care what you call me this is really up setting. to now fight an even harder fight against the 109s. which just need a boost not a dumbing of the British planes. Bring back the head shake and plane shine and I will at least fly the sim offline for the scenery.

king

You make the mistake of equating raw aircraft performance with the historical results their missions produced. Performance is just a part of a long and convoluted equation that - in the end - brought the results we know as history today. A lot of it simply has to do with the way both sides used their available forces ...

To expect that a computer game can depict history 1:1 is ludicruous. For starters no sane player would adhere to historical tactics or orders if they ran contrary to his common sense. Or would you, as a german fighter pilot, not tell Hermann Meier to go kriff himself and not do close escort?

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by csThor

You make the mistake of equating raw aircraft performance with the historical results their missions produced. Performance is just a part of a long and convoluted equation that - in the end - brought the results we know as history today. A lot of it simply has to do with the way both sides used their available forces ...

To expect that a computer game can depict history 1:1 is ludicruous. For starters no sane player would adhere to historical tactics or orders if they ran contrary to his common sense. Or would you, as a german fighter pilot, not tell Hermann Meier to go kriff himself and not do close escort?

The problem online play suffers is that everyone IS using tactics that support their aircraft and in that sense the aircraft with the performance edge is the one that regularly comes out on top :/

It makes it very tough to be a Red pilot in CloD. Hindsight for the blue side eliminates their one real disadvantage: the poor command directives

We'll have to see for ourselves what the patch does. But I suspect Recoil is right. It's going to end up being all IIas and the odd sado-masochistic Hurricane pilot Hardly a 'historical simulator'.

If the game crashes get sorted out, maybe team tactics will help offset all of the aircraft performance issues and we'll see more even fights between larger wings of aircraft.

Edit to add that I think that, even though a lot of online players want to play this battle, the battle of britain, online play is going to switch to the new game's plane set (battle of moscow) based on the aircraft performance differences and the above tactical/historical disparities.

RAF/Red pilots who fly CloD, at least THIS pilot, want to play and get a sense of participating in the greatest air battle of history in which the underdog RAF managed to hold off and achieve victory against the supposedly unstoppable German military machine. CloD certainly gives us the underdog feeling, but the victory bit is lacking a little.

I guess our 'victory' will be a lot like the real one. Pilots will just move on to the Russian front (BoM).

[JG52Uther]

All RAF fighters should fly in three's, in very tight formation, and maybe have a 'weaver' flying at the back, preferably a new poorly trained guy.
You'll be fine...

Later in the battle the LW fighters will all be flying close escort to the bombers anyway, so you RAF guys can bring your 'big wing' into play. If you are smart, you won't engage until the 109's are at the limit of endurance, and have to turn back, then you can attack and break up the bomber formations.
Should be great fun with no CTD's and big formations!

[addman]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

All RAF fighters should fly in three's, in very tight formation, and maybe have a 'weaver' flying at the back, preferably a new poorly trained guy.
You'll be fine...

Later in the battle the LW fighters will all be flying close escort to the bombers anyway, so you RAF guys can bring your 'big wing' into play. If you are smart, you won't engage until the 109's are at the limit of endurance, and have to turn back, then you can attack and break up the bomber formations.
Should be great fun with no CTD's and big formations!

LOL! That's comedy gold right there, never gonna happen. LOL!

[JG52Uther]

Originally Posted by addman

LOL! That's comedy gold right there, never gonna happen. LOL!

[Hooves]

They were too fast, and they still got gobbled up by 109's. Now they are all even slower. You dont need a crystal ball to figure out that 1c just completely screwed the red pilots of this game. Hey we could use the writ flyer against those 109's it be about as effective.


Trust me on the bullet resistance. I have gigs of videos with the 109 on fire still turning with the reds and then zooming away all the way home. You can't argue with video.

I'm sorry but this update is a total joke.

[recoilfx]

Originally Posted by Hooves

They were too fast, and they still got gobbled up by 109's. Now they are all even slower. You dont need a crystal ball to figure out that 1c just completely screwed the red pilots of this game. Hey we could use the writ flyer against those 109's it be about as effective.


Trust me on the bullet resistance. I have gigs of videos with the 109 on fire still turning with the reds and then zooming away all the way home. You can't argue with video.

I'm sorry but this update is a total joke.

Hooves, I'll address that point of 109s being on fire - there are 2 fuel tanks for the 109 in the game. One 'explosion' doesn't mean the 109 will run out as long as the other fuel tank isn't punctured. IMO, the occurrences of fuel tank 'explosions' happen too often compare to the RAF planes, but I don't know if this is a historical trait.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by recoilfx

Hooves, I'll address that point of 109s being on fire - there are 2 fuel tanks for the 109 in the game. One 'explosion' doesn't mean the 109 will run out as long as the other fuel tank isn't punctured. IMO, the occurrences of fuel tank 'explosions' happen too often compare to the RAF planes, but I don't know if this is a historical trait.

I would think ANY sort of fuel tank explosion would put the 109 down, as now they not only carry on flying, they carry on fighting with no negative impact on flight performance.

[recoilfx]

Originally Posted by furbs

I would think ANY sort of fuel tank explosion would put the 109 down, as now they not only carry on flying, they carry on fighting with no negative impact on flight performance.

Most of time, when there is a fuel tank explosion the 109 is severely damaged. I'm just explaining why sometimes 109 can continue to fly even though the explosion should've drained all fuel.

We all have had those moments where one plane is Swiss cheesed but it continues to whiz by.

I agree that the 109s are just hardier planes (as long as the engine isn't over-reved). Brit planes are more finicky and more prone to temperature issues. I don't know if this is historical or not, but it seems that the Merlins are due for some changes with the new patch.

[BigC208]

Originally Posted by Hooves

They were too fast, and they still got gobbled up by 109's. Now they are all even slower. You dont need a crystal ball to figure out that 1c just completely screwed the red pilots of this game. Hey we could use the writ flyer against those 109's it be about as effective.


Trust me on the bullet resistance. I have gigs of videos with the 109 on fire still turning with the reds and then zooming away all the way home. You can't argue with video.

I'm sorry but this update is a total joke.

I read a lot of pilot accounts from the Blitzkrieg (both sides) in the lowlands to the Battle of Brittain. I always got the impression that when flown by a competent pilot and using it strenghts, the 109E was a feared and deadly adversary. Fast, small profile and those 2x20mm made quick work out of anything unfortunate enough to fly infront of them. RAF pilots in general were aware that they were outclassed at the higher altitudes when bounced by 109's. Even acknowlegded their fire power inferiority in interviews after the war. In 1940 the 109E was the best fighter in the West, by a country mile. If Goering had used the 109E for what it was designed, unrestrained free hunt with a range extending droptank, the RAF would've been toast by late September.

Flying Spits an Hurries I've blown many 109's out of the sky online. Make sure you get close and in convergence. Bombers take more work but are doable and it feels realistic from what I've read on the subject over the years. Even in a Spit mkI online I do pretty good against 109 drivers that don't use their strenghts. Had a 45 minute dogfight over Le Havre that went from 15k to down on the deck and back up to 15k. He never got a clean shot and I never was able to get on his six. One on one close in I did pretty good. Had it been historical (against experienced 109 driver) I would've been dead in 2 minutes. Experienced 109 driver would've done bnz tacktics with his wingman and extend over and over again. I was in a corner, unable to run away. In the end I noticed I got low on gas and tried to extend with a Split S and a wild course altering, turning dive. Hoping he would lose sight. No such luck, He nailed me, straight and level on the deck. Probably my most enjoyable online 1 vs 1 dogfight ever.

Point I'm trying to make is this. In their historical context and flown with tactics of the time the 109 is supposed to be superior. In online mode, out of historical context, the planes are much closer. After a bit of a turnfight, energy advantage depleted, the 109 becomes a more equal adversary. From that point on individual flying skills and luck will decide the outcome.

Great update. Good to see that more work is spread out over all cores. I hope that's a trend they continue. Bit of a bummer to have a game that only uses 25% of the avalable recources. Now it actually may make sense to get an 8 core machine. Curious to see how the Intel and AMD 8 core processors deal with Il2CoD after the patch. The other big questionmark for me is how they fixed sound. Shooting the guns in the RAF planes is hardly noticible. even the 20mm's in the 109 are muffled. Hope that's fixed.