Friday Update, April 13, 2012

[king1hw]

Interesting that the number of Hurricanes in the fight number 534 planes during the battle of Britain and this fight must have competed well with ROOKIE pilots. Also was flying @ 12lbs boost before the war even got started. Also the Spitfire flown by Rooks. with no more then 10 plus hours were engaging 109s far superior pilot skills but yet the only thing to keep the lads alive was the MACHINE if so poor to your historical standards then Britain would have been German. This is getting so frustrating to get any plane in the game that can compete what the heck. I don't care what you call me this is really up setting. to now fight an even harder fight against the 109s. which just need a boost not a dumbing of the British planes. Bring back the head shake and plane shine and I will at least fly the sim offline for the scenery.

king

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by king1hw

Interesting that the number of Hurricanes in the fight number 534 planes during the battle of Britain and this fight must have competed well with ROOKIE pilots. Also was flying @ 12lbs boost before the war even got started. Also the Spitfire flown by Rooks. with no more then 10 plus hours were engaging 109s far superior pilot skills but yet the only thing to keep the lads alive was the MACHINE if so poor to your historical standards then Britain would have been German. This is getting so frustrating to get any plane in the game that can compete what the heck. I don't care what you call me this is really up setting. to now fight an even harder fight against the 109s. which just need a boost not a dumbing of the British planes. Bring back the head shake and plane shine and I will at least fly the sim offline for the scenery.

king

I'm also a little nervous to see how the updates shake out, but let's wait and see how the patch actually changes things before getting TOO crazy about it.

Maybe the Spit IIa will be a good adversary and the server will allow it. Maybe the Ia will have improved enough to be competitive. If those things are the case, then I'm sure we'll be fine.

I may just have to hop from my Hurricane into a Spitfire though

[moilami]

Originally Posted by king1hw

Interesting that the number of Hurricanes in the fight number 534 planes during the battle of Britain and this fight must have competed well with ROOKIE pilots. Also was flying @ 12lbs boost before the war even got started. Also the Spitfire flown by Rooks. with no more then 10 plus hours were engaging 109s far superior pilot skills but yet the only thing to keep the lads alive was the MACHINE if so poor to your historical standards then Britain would have been German. This is getting so frustrating to get any plane in the game that can compete what the heck. I don't care what you call me this is really up setting. to now fight an even harder fight against the 109s. which just need a boost not a dumbing of the British planes. Bring back the head shake and plane shine and I will at least fly the sim offline for the scenery.

king

So did mr. Churchill say in wain "all I can promise to you is blood sweat and tears"? And what did the pilots say? Fight or whine on

No matter...............there is always a choise.....

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by king1hw

Interesting that the number of Hurricanes in the fight number 534 planes during the battle of Britain and this fight must have competed well with ROOKIE pilots. Also was flying @ 12lbs boost before the war even got started. Also the Spitfire flown by Rooks. with no more then 10 plus hours were engaging 109s far superior pilot skills but yet the only thing to keep the lads alive was the MACHINE if so poor to your historical standards then Britain would have been German. This is getting so frustrating to get any plane in the game that can compete what the heck. I don't care what you call me this is really up setting. to now fight an even harder fight against the 109s. which just need a boost not a dumbing of the British planes. Bring back the head shake and plane shine and I will at least fly the sim offline for the scenery.

king

If you are going to try to argue a point from logic, you are not allowed to ignore FACTS. If the developers are indeed using FACTS, you know, like actual numbers written on actual paper and stuff, and the FACTS of the historical evidence line up with the FACTS of the games measurable performance then maybe our argument has to be adjusted to suit the FACTS not the other way around. Just saying.

[BadAim]

As for the development team......

Great news! I knew you could do it. Methinks I shall blow the dust off my 'ole CLod.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by BadAim

If you are going to try to argue a point from logic, you are not allowed to ignore FACTS. If the developers are indeed using FACTS, you know, like actual numbers written on actual paper and stuff, and the FACTS of the historical evidence line up with the FACTS of the games measurable performance then maybe our argument has to be adjusted to suit the FACTS not the other way around. Just saying.

Here are some facts by Hans Wind:

The easiest one to shoot down of the enemy fighters is the Hurricane. It is totally helpless against us below 3,000 meters. It is slow and very clumsy and unmanoeuvrable. Whenever you meet a Hurricane, engage it in a turn-fight, where it is totally at our mercy. It is best to shoot this plane in the forward part of the fuselage when it almost immediately bursts into flames.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2...csLecture.html

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by moilami

Here are some facts by Hans Wind:

The easiest one to shoot down of the enemy fighters is the Hurricane. It is totally helpless against us below 3,000 meters. It is slow and very clumsy and unmanoeuvrable. Whenever you meet a Hurricane, engage it in a turn-fight, where it is totally at our mercy. It is best to shoot this plane in the forward part of the fuselage when it almost immediately bursts into flames.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2...csLecture.html

"The Hurricane and Spitfire are slow and clumsy fighters at low altitudes. They seek dogfights at high altitudes (over 5,000 m.) where their characteristics are extremely good. Used these days as night-fighters by the enemy. The Spitfire is faster than the Hurricane."

[csThor]

Originally Posted by king1hw

Interesting that the number of Hurricanes in the fight number 534 planes during the battle of Britain and this fight must have competed well with ROOKIE pilots. Also was flying @ 12lbs boost before the war even got started. Also the Spitfire flown by Rooks. with no more then 10 plus hours were engaging 109s far superior pilot skills but yet the only thing to keep the lads alive was the MACHINE if so poor to your historical standards then Britain would have been German. This is getting so frustrating to get any plane in the game that can compete what the heck. I don't care what you call me this is really up setting. to now fight an even harder fight against the 109s. which just need a boost not a dumbing of the British planes. Bring back the head shake and plane shine and I will at least fly the sim offline for the scenery.

king

You make the mistake of equating raw aircraft performance with the historical results their missions produced. Performance is just a part of a long and convoluted equation that - in the end - brought the results we know as history today. A lot of it simply has to do with the way both sides used their available forces ...

To expect that a computer game can depict history 1:1 is ludicruous. For starters no sane player would adhere to historical tactics or orders if they ran contrary to his common sense. Or would you, as a german fighter pilot, not tell Hermann Meier to go kriff himself and not do close escort?

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by csThor

You make the mistake of equating raw aircraft performance with the historical results their missions produced. Performance is just a part of a long and convoluted equation that - in the end - brought the results we know as history today. A lot of it simply has to do with the way both sides used their available forces ...

To expect that a computer game can depict history 1:1 is ludicruous. For starters no sane player would adhere to historical tactics or orders if they ran contrary to his common sense. Or would you, as a german fighter pilot, not tell Hermann Meier to go kriff himself and not do close escort?

The problem online play suffers is that everyone IS using tactics that support their aircraft and in that sense the aircraft with the performance edge is the one that regularly comes out on top :/

It makes it very tough to be a Red pilot in CloD. Hindsight for the blue side eliminates their one real disadvantage: the poor command directives

We'll have to see for ourselves what the patch does. But I suspect Recoil is right. It's going to end up being all IIas and the odd sado-masochistic Hurricane pilot Hardly a 'historical simulator'.

If the game crashes get sorted out, maybe team tactics will help offset all of the aircraft performance issues and we'll see more even fights between larger wings of aircraft.

Edit to add that I think that, even though a lot of online players want to play this battle, the battle of britain, online play is going to switch to the new game's plane set (battle of moscow) based on the aircraft performance differences and the above tactical/historical disparities.

RAF/Red pilots who fly CloD, at least THIS pilot, want to play and get a sense of participating in the greatest air battle of history in which the underdog RAF managed to hold off and achieve victory against the supposedly unstoppable German military machine. CloD certainly gives us the underdog feeling, but the victory bit is lacking a little.

I guess our 'victory' will be a lot like the real one. Pilots will just move on to the Russian front (BoM).

[JG52Uther]

All RAF fighters should fly in three's, in very tight formation, and maybe have a 'weaver' flying at the back, preferably a new poorly trained guy.
You'll be fine...

Later in the battle the LW fighters will all be flying close escort to the bombers anyway, so you RAF guys can bring your 'big wing' into play. If you are smart, you won't engage until the 109's are at the limit of endurance, and have to turn back, then you can attack and break up the bomber formations.
Should be great fun with no CTD's and big formations!