Please keep the realism!

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

perhaps you would share this "actually more of the opposite" information with us?

It was on the PS. Previous page (page 20)

Originally Posted by White Owl
I don't own the game yet because my computer broke and I'm waiting on parts, so just looking at Youtube videos for now.

I posted earlier that I've seen a whole lot of real-life aircraft tachometers in operation, since I fixed airplanes professionally for years. Most of those tachs were mechanical, not electric. I have never seen a tachometer needle bounce around like I'm seeing in the videos, not under any circumstance. However... I'm willing to accept the possibility that British and Italian tachometers of the era could have differed from anything else I've ever seen. It's also very likely that any currently airworthy warbirds will have modern instruments, so we can't divine the truth of the matter by looking at in-cockpit recordings now.

Ok. If the devs have evidence that tach needles of the day oscillated that badly, then let's keep it that way in the game.

But I can't help thinking it's very strange that in all the books I've read about WWII aviation - with so many reports from combat pilots comparing their aircraft to more modern planes - not once have I come across a phrase anything like "Of course, back then our engine instruments were so inaccurate you couldn't tell exactly what RPM it was turning, so we just set the throttle and prop controls to 'close enough' and got on with it."

I am sorry I can not express an opinion since I have never seen a plane with mechanical instruments so I keep my mouth shut, unlike the dozens of "experts" here who decided to fly the banner of needles-realism high, without actually knowing what they are talking about!

Awesome group dynamics but, please gents, use your brains more and less your emotions!

REALISM IS GOOD I am 100% percent behind you guys! But as I said dozens of posts ago, who on earth said that mechanical needles jumped as much in reality???
The people who have seen mechanical instruments in their life said the opposite! (at least in the posts I read, if you have other, I am keen to read)

Uther said it clearly, this thread should stick to REALISM and not needless needles discussions!


Sorry for jumping hard but when I tried mildly nobody understood the message. Probably the lack of experience in "face-saving" excersises (the mechanical-electrical discussion) and the eagerness of people to fight for a good cause, makes everybody jumping around without looking at the underlying facts.



PS #1. Polls!? No polls! What kind of poll will this be? All the mechanical needles experts will decide on what is realistic for a 1939 aircraft instrument? Needless...


PS #2. If you want to make yourselves useful, check where the Revi gunsight (Bf109) points at (press Shift-F1 first!), with and without cockpit, and then tell me how realistic this is... (just to spare you the headache: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3271206 )


Happy Flying!

~S~

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

It was on the PS. Previous page (page 20)

mmmm nuh, not what I could see... did miss something?

[41Sqn_Banks]

I can only speak for myself, but I think the majority of the "keep it real" crowd has the same opinion.
It's not about jumping needles, if mechanic instruments don't jump around, then keep them mechanic and remove/reduce the jumping.

It's about changes that are made based on feelings of people, not based on hard facts:

* Adjusted magnetic compass damping to match the characteristics of a Soviet A-4
compass, as many were unhappy with its present wobbling;

* Replaced every tachometer in every British and Italian plane with an electrical type, since some people find needle movement on the mechanical type not what they expected.

* Completely removed overload assessment from carburetters. Rolls-Royce engines will now cut if overload is negative, and will not cut if it is positive. (old values were sneezing at .5G, and cut-out at .25 which we felt were dead on, but this apparently confused most of the players)

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

I can only speak for myself, but I think the majority of the "keep it real" crowd has the same opinion.
It's not about jumping needles, if mechanic instruments don't jump around, then keep them mechanic and remove/reduce the jumping.

It's about changes that are made based on feelings of people, not based on hard facts:

* Adjusted magnetic compass damping to match the characteristics of a Soviet A-4
compass, as many were unhappy with its present wobbling;

* Replaced every tachometer in every British and Italian plane with an electrical type, since some people find needle movement on the mechanical type not what they expected.

* Completely removed overload assessment from carburetters. Rolls-Royce engines will now cut if overload is negative, and will not cut if it is positive. (old values were sneezing at .5G, and cut-out at .25 which we felt were dead on, but this apparently confused most of the players)

+ 1 Trillion^Tetrillion

I now find it so much less immersive with this unsensitive merlin that doesn't shake at all and runs like a modern bmw car engine with active vibration damping devices. If ppl cannot handle realism they just need to switch realism options off. But leave realism for us real simmers.

[Silver_Dragon]

+1 to Realism, with the options for news for change in the settings

[IvanK]

For the pro Needle bouncers have a look at this track about 3:17 in .... no bounce just a tiny little bit of hunting after they reach 2050 RPM and thats pretty much what we have now in CLOD. So 2 videos so far validating the lack of needle bounce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3u5p...eature=related

So the realism with respect needle bounce (or lack thereof) has actually been improved !

[Wolf_Rider]

do you have one of the Hurricane (OEM equipment for the period ingame) though?

[IbanezLaney]

Just think about the old mechanical speedometers from back when cars were good.
This works the same way. The needle bounce seemed way over exaggerated.

A very slight wobble seems correct and only a large wobble would occur if the cable was incorrectly installed or damaged. The mechanical type would snap eventually if this was the case.

I don't know much about the gauges from back then but I would be surprised if they were not oil dampened to further reduce wobble.

[RAF74_Winger]

Not a hurricane, but reference the mad bouncing ASI and Altimeter - look over the pilot's shoulder here - a small wobble, but by no means the mad bouncing that we see in game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...l97XwktE#t=88s

W.

[TUCKIE_JG52]

Originally Posted by IvanK

For the pro Needle bouncers have a look at this track about 3:17 in .... no bounce just a tiny little bit of hunting after they reach 2050 RPM and thats pretty much what we have now in CLOD. So 2 videos so far validating the lack of needle bounce.

So the realism with respect needle bounce (or lack thereof) has actually been improved !

Can you tell the exact model of the tachometer?

Here's another one, BUT comparing with a plane present in the simulator, the Tiger Moth...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af29TuO5THQ

I don't know what you see here, I see a very imprecise, vibrating and bouncing needle...