Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

[jermin]

Originally Posted by Eldur

I've seen "red" pilots, too, saying the same. And the gun makes not much difference, because there's a lot less ammunition which compensates for the bit heavier gun.

MG 151/20 = 42,5kg
One shell = 220g (projectile is 115g)
Gun + 200rd = 86,5kg

MK 108 = 58kg
One shell = 480g (projectile is 330g)
Gun + 65rd = 116,2kg

So it's ~20kg difference. Data source: http://www.adlertag.de/waffen/waffen.htm



2 things that should be looked at are the UB muzzle velocity (you can see it's something like twice the ShKAS value in MiG-3, and UBs have an extremely high range) and the MG 17 Rate of Fire (it's still with 2x packages AFAIK, some others had been changed when FB came out).

+1 about the weight of MG151 and MK108. The weight for German planes equipped with MK 108 should all be fixed.

And G2 and G6 should only have 376kg difference in weight:

a, New radio set
b, Larger, non-retractable tailwheel*
c, 13mm HMGs and their belt covers, or 'bulges'

* In fact, late G-2s had the same arger, non-retractable tailwheel as well, so in practice the only difference between was a quite insignificant 50 kg weight increase, and -9 km/h loss of top speed due to the cowling bulges. But in the game the difference between G2 and G6 in handling is unreasonably large.

And about the muzzle velocity of MG151, it is considerably slow compared to Hispano V in the game. While in real life the difference is only arround 20 m/s. Within a range less than 300 meter, there should be virtually no diference in the lead for the same shooting scenario. But in the game the Hispano on Tempest requires much less lead than MG151 when firing. It also seems to me that the MV of MK 108 is too low. Please fix these problem in the incoming patch.

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by jermin

It also seems to me that the MV of MK 108 is too low.

How something "seems" to you or to me is of no importance.

It either matches the correct numbers or it doesn't. So if you cannot post actual numbers, both for the real weapon, and it's velocity in game, you have no leg to stand on here.

Hence even though it "seems" to me that the MK 108 is grossly over modeled in the game, you won't here me begging for a change based on my feelings.

[jermin]

So you are a member from TD or are you a moderator of this forum? If not, I won't provide any real data for you. And, please remove the offensive tone in you post.

P.S. I think TD should have a hell lot more data that what I got from Internet.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

How something "seems" to you or to me is of no importance.

It either matches the correct numbers or it doesn't. So if you cannot post actual numbers, both for the real weapon, and it's velocity in game, you have no leg to stand on here.

Hence even though it "seems" to me that the MK 108 is grossly over modeled in the game, you won't here me begging for a change based on my feelings.

Considering that the MK108 is a HighExplosive and Mine-projectiles weapon belting that makes this kind of damage with a single shot:


I don´t think it´s "grossly over modeled" in game. In my opinion it´s a bit undermodelled.

Muzzlevelocity:
ingame: 500 m/s+525 m/s (the game uses 2 tiype of bullets)
real 540 m/s

Rounds:
50 ingame
65 in real

Rounds/Minute:
in game 600 rpm
in real 660 rpm(The rate of fire was to be improved to 850 rounds/minute later but not in game)



http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html
http://www.bredow-web.de/Luftwaffenm...ig_mk_108.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK_108_cannon

[Eldur]

Originally Posted by II/JG54_Emil

Considering that the MK108 is a HighExplosive and Mine-projectiles weapon belting that makes this kind of damage with a single shot:


I don´t think it´s "grossly over modeled" in game. In my opinion it´s a bit undermodelled.

There is a little issue, yes. But I don't think it's just 50 rounds. In which plane? I've counted 65 in the 109s, but I think it's just 50 in the FWs. And there it should be more maybe. I know just the exact max load for the MG FF since A-5 which is 90 and not 60.
The MK 108 issue is just that the HE round does very little damage while the MG round is the killer it's supposed to be. Usually I shoot off the first bullet of the first 2 MKs in the 262 and have a mix of 2 MG and 2 HE then everytime I shoot and it does pretty well then. If I don't some of the hits I achieve do very little damage which accounts to the HE rounds.
A simple belting with MG only would fix this issue easily.

[Daiichidoku]

Originally Posted by II/JG54_Emil

Considering that the MK108 is a HighExplosive and Mine-projectiles weapon belting that makes this kind of damage with a single shot:

you may have an issue with 108s in game, i wont dispute that

however, using this photo to prove a point is invalid, did you know that for this test, they hung the mk 108 round in the middle of the fuselage and then detonated it?
it was not fired into the fuselage