Early, Overall thoughts on WotN

[camelotcrusade]

Yeah, maybe in addition to the undead invasion they could have had a bandit uprising at the same time trying to take advantage of the situation. So you at least got to fight bandits too. Part of the fun in earlier KBs was the fact that sooner or laster you'd encounter an enemy army that you weren't optimized to destroy. So you had to decide whether to use your less ideal troops and maybe take losses, or whether to reorganize for those fights. But in WoTN so far I haven't felt stretched that way.

[Nevar]

Originally Posted by camelotcrusade

Yeah, maybe in addition to the undead invasion they could have had a bandit uprising at the same time trying to take advantage of the situation. So you at least got to fight bandits too. Part of the fun in earlier KBs was the fact that sooner or laster you'd encounter an enemy army that you weren't optimized to destroy. So you had to decide whether to use your less ideal troops and maybe take losses, or whether to reorganize for those fights. But in WoTN so far I haven't felt stretched that way.

This. I wound up trying to look for a good army to kill undead quickly.

At first I tried to be clever and run Undead, too, but that just made it even more tedious. It was like watching two guys stab each other with spoons, since Undead are immune to their own unique attributes (Plague and Curse, I mean).

In the end, I went with an army that had Paladins, Jarls, Battle Maidens, Assassins and Soothsayers. Bear in mind I'm using the "all units available at start" mod for my Soothsayer file.

Lots of extra turns available and I plowed through Nordlig with a lot of 2 or 3-round wins. I wonder how viable this is late game with Distraction level 3. Not gonna find out with this file since I'm just using an army while I still don't have good summons.

Could be worth looking into for my Skald, though.

Slight derail there. My apologies.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Yes... This is the end of 2012 - and there are so many games that allow for much more fun than KB does even for less money. Games, that allow for awesome replayability and numerous options. I am sad to see that they are turning KB into a competition game where all you want to do is get to the end of the game the fastest way possible and get a good score.

Games are not only about score and bragging rights, you know...

Ugh, Nevar, I feel for you... I also started a Soothsayer after the Skald, and I gotta say I am not seeing anything different, it is the same boring chore of casting spells/bashing undead between the eyes, as the trainer NPC's put it...

Frankly, for me it's the other way around. I absolutely adore the KB franchise but haven't played any KB game for more than a year. When I found out that WoTN is coming to Steam (like a week before the release I was ecstatic.

Now that I'm playing I find it as fun and addictive as ever. I personally don't find WoTN any more or less "repetitive" than the previous installments. Yes, I can imagine the hordes of undead on the first island can be a bit tedious on the third or fourth playthrough but I just started a second game and don't mind it at all. As for going through the game and bashing enemies on the head, well, that's pretty much what KB is all about

Sure, not all is rosy, I did expect more new units, some deeper changes to the skill trees and gameplay mechanics - and I don't find the rune system very important or interesting (I almost never use the runes, doesn't seem to have that much an impact) - but those are only minor quibbles. I don't think WoTN is better or worse than the predecessors. It's almost completely the same and that's (mostly) a good thing.

But if

[DGDobrev]

Originally Posted by camelotcrusade

Yeah, maybe in addition to the undead invasion they could have had a bandit uprising at the same time trying to take advantage of the situation. So you at least got to fight bandits too. Part of the fun in earlier KBs was the fact that sooner or laster you'd encounter an enemy army that you weren't optimized to destroy. So you had to decide whether to use your less ideal troops and maybe take losses, or whether to reorganize for those fights. But in WoTN so far I haven't felt stretched that way.

+1 on that. There are plenty of story-creating elements that could have been used. I agree that the undead are rightfully there, but how about a demon, who entered the wrong portal and showed up right where it wasn't supposed to be, right on our doorstep? Or a shipwrecked human expedition? Pirates and Bandits who take advantage of the chaos? More animal life to prey on?

The way I see it, is that everyone had quite high hopes for the sequel, and we just got another KBAP-type game, but this time with additional limitations.

[BB Shockwave]

Originally Posted by Nevar

This. I wound up trying to look for a good army to kill undead quickly.

At first I tried to be clever and run Undead, too, but that just made it even more tedious. It was like watching two guys stab each other with spoons, since Undead are immune to their own unique attributes (Plague and Curse, I mean).

LOL, reminds me of my own loooong trudging through the Dead Lands in The Legend, when I was playing a Mage with Undead army. Vampires fighting Vampires was indeed like watching people fight with spoons.
That said, I quickly found that Cursed Ghosts are a lifesaver there - most undead inflict physical or poison damage, so just stone-skin the ghosts and they can even stand up to Death Knights while spells and Necromancers whittle them down from afar. Of course, no life drain meant I had to use my "home-brew" Animate Dead spell a lot. (I just didn't like that you had no way to resurrect Undead troops, like in Heroes games).

[BB Shockwave]

Originally Posted by Nevar

The repetitiveness is really annoying. I made a new game as a Soothsayer and fighting through all those undead units again almost makes me want to throw up.

I even installed the "all units available" mod so I could at least use a different army, but yeah, the sheer number of skeletons, zombies and necromancers in this game are a huge turn-off.

That, and the HIGH Level of the enemies you face! I remember in The Legend, when I first met Necromancers or Ancient Vampires and Death Knights, it was a moment of awe, seeing those imposing creatures and wondering "can I beat those with my army of level 1-3 units?" This 'magic' is gone now when you run into them at every second turn. It's like if in Diablo, you'd run into balrogs and black knights in the very first catacomb, instead of in hell.

The game progresses too soon. It throws you into the thick of things too fast. I want to experience the game slowly. In AP, on the first island you were limited to low-level Human units, Dragonflies and Snakes, and that was fun - because you also faced similar enemies. Remember that first - very clever trap, btw - fight with your first dragon, where you are trapped in a cave and see that big green coming at you? Now, that was an "OMG!" moment... Here, you basically run into a mini-Kalador boss at the end of the first island. Anticlimatic.

I actually wish we had a working editor and people could start and make their own KB campaigns... 'cause I feel some people could do it better.

[Khornn]

Everything feels very copy & pasted from KB:TL, with only minor changes. On some areas it's really blatant that they just went through them in a hurry without much thought, there are flying buildings and mountains because they haven't been placed with enough care, empty spaces in walls where buildings used to be, undead armies everywhere instead of variety, etc...

I have played my first play through on Normal difficulty now for 64h according to Steam and I've maybe completed ~80% of the game, still encountering undead armies on a regular basis. They don't even vary in their composition, so it becomes monotonous labor where I'm just going through the motions instead of getting challenged by the game (move units in tactics mode, choose Edda, cast Phantom, use Rage skill, shoot with mages, hug the enemy archers with my phantom griffons = win, then repeat about a zillion times for every undead army on the map).

[Nevar]

Originally Posted by Khornn

They don't even vary in their composition, so it becomes monotonous labor where I'm just going through the motions instead of getting challenged by the game (move units in tactics mode, choose Edda, cast Phantom, use Rage skill, shoot with mages, hug the enemy archers with my phantom griffons = win, then repeat about a zillion times for every undead army on the map).

Considering how there are less than a dozen undead units, it's probably difficult to vary unit composition.

You know, if they'd introduced more undead units, the game would've been a little less tedious. I kept seeing mention of ghouls, which got me excited, only to find out there are no new undead units in the game at all.

I mean, I would've been happy with new units that were just retextures as long as they played differently.

[DGDobrev]

So would I As things stand, the game is a chore. It wouldn't have hurt if we were allowed to do some cool stuff at the beginning, rather than only in mid to late game. KBAP had it - the baby dragon's progression was kinda fast, and he was super cute.

Unfortunately, WotN forces the player into pointless repetition for a long time. Use Axe Throwers, Soothsayers (rest is whatever), advance a few paces, beat the undead army using the only damn rage skill you are given for last hits whenever possible until you get the XP medal. Advance a few more squares, beat the next one with the same composition. Rinse and repeat... Kinda takes the fun out of a no-loss game too, as for the first time I felt an inner urge to skip ahead and see new stuff regardless how the battles played and whether I lost units or not - and each and every single no-loss challenge (especially the player created ones) was a big part of this game.

That allowed everyone to forge a new story, to offer ideas for another play-through, to up the replayability of the game. I dont see how differently can this one play for the first 10 hours or so... The game is beating you on the head with the same types of units over and over.

[Colbert30]

I wonder what people are saying in the russian forums... I imagine devs go there more often, being their native language. Not that I think they don't speak English, but I suppose it's easier for them.

Anyway, given the nature of the story and its somewhat linearity, out of giving us random or more variety in units/spells for castles, etc. (which would go a looong way, btw), I don't know if they can do much.

But I suppose that right now their priority is the hunting and fixing of bugs and crashes. So mods will have to suffice for now.