OT: Stick recommendations...

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by robtek

This "reversal-bug", imho, just adds a bit more realism as the mechanical links
to the rudder, elevators and ailerons in the real planes had for shure more play then 2 or 3%.

Nonsense.

What about trim tabs then? Because from what I was able to read they are 'infected' as well.

The reversal bug as it is is pure stupidity on the Logitech part. The only reason why it exists is to eliminate pots loosing precision over time, and this is why they won't eliminate it completely. MSFF2 is a FF stick and hasn't got 'reversal bug' - and people are using it even after 10 years.

[W32Blaster]

Originally Posted by robtek

This "reversal-bug", imho, just adds a bit more realism as the mechanical links
to the rudder, elevators and ailerons in the real planes had for shure more play then 2 or 3%.

And if you use Multi Throttel by MykkOwl it is fixed by his tool, so if you use it, no wonder you don´t realize anything wrong.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by robtek

This "reversal-bug", imho, just adds a bit more realism as the mechanical links
to the rudder, elevators and ailerons in the real planes had for shure more play then 2 or 3%.

Interesting point of view... But I doubt that the throttle would have jumped by 3% if you trottled down after having throttled up... And in any case: "Play" is something completly different from "reversal jump": With play, you push the first 3% and finally get the first 1% with the rudder slowly catching up... With the reversal bug, you push 1,2,3,4% and get nothing and sudddenly you get more than you wanted, never being able to adjust to 1,2, or 3...

[Artist]

Originally Posted by W32Blaster

And if you use Multi Throttel by MykkOwl it is fixed by his tool, so if you use it, no wonder you don´t realize anything wrong.

Yes. And as an owner of a G940 I thank him daily for his fix for throttle and trims, proppitch, etc.

The aileron, rudder, and elevator is still reversal bugged. And as far as I read Logitech (see forum link abive), they'll only fix aileron and elevator in the forseeable future.

[robtek]

as i have used mikkowl's software as soon as it was available that might be the reason i haven't had to complain

[MasterTec]

Originally Posted by robtek

This "reversal-bug", imho, just adds a bit more realism as the mechanical links
to the rudder, elevators and ailerons in the real planes had for shure more play then 2 or 3%.

OK GUYS! I'm the one who created that youtube video and am very active in the Logitech forums about this bug. I registered here just so I could respond to this post.

If the "hysteresis" as Logitech calls it (or reversal-bug as we call it) worked like you described, most of us would have little to no problem with it. The problem is it doesn't work like that.

With no play in the controls at all in the rudder control and if you moved the rudders from center, to left, and then back to the right, it would look like this (with 0 being full left, 100 being full right):
Starting at center, then going left: 50,49,48,47,46
Now reversing and going back right: 46,47,48,49,50
That's pretty cut and dry.

If you pretend you were in a real plane and there was a little bit of slack in the rudder control and you moved the rudders from center, to left, and then back to the right, it would look like this:
Starting at center, then going left: 50,50,50,49,48,47,46
Now reversing and going back right: 46,46,46,47,48,49,50
The fact that it does not immediately change shows the play in the linkage that must be overcome.. this would be expected in a real aircraft.

Here's what the G940 does:
Starting at center, then going left: 50,49,48,47,46
Now reversing and going back right: 46,46,46,52
See how it jumps from 46 to 52? If it was simply mimicking play in the controls, that jump would not be present... *THIS* is what makes it so annoying.

I don't fee like going back and researching my figures, but IIRC the reversal 'jump' in the throttles was over 5%, and in the rudders and trims was over 3%. This is *HUGE* when precision flying is involved.

I can understand why Logitech decided to put some Hysteresis in there... to compensate for 'pot flicker' where very small adjustments upon reversal tends to produce some variance, but what they should have done is programmed it to 'pick up where it left off' rather than to 'compensate for the amount of hysteresis'

[Erkki]

All CH. Straight lines. Sensitivity curves are for sissies. No filtering or dead band either.

Originally Posted by Erkki

All CH. Straight lines. Sensitivity curves are for sissies. No filtering or dead band either.

I wish that I could take a Logitech G940, get it drunk, shove it in a cheap motel with a frisky CH joystick and then use their hybrid offspring for my gaming device.

[MikkOwl]

Since there's two topics of joysticks, I posted in the larger one. Much stuff related to what's in this topic. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=18710&page=5

The reversal bug has nothing to do with filtering. It doesn't make any sense. Even the slightest opposite movement (as opposed to giving some slack) makes the output make a big jump in that direction. With time if pots get worn out and it starts misbehaving, you'll probably see wild jumping up and down thanks to the reversal bug amplifying every opposite movement.

The reversal bug is like filtering using the wrong math and input, where it reinforces any pot problems and makes the control much, much more nervous and inaccurate instead of less.

I'm stuck with my G940 more or less for Cliffs of Duty, I mean, Call of Hannover, no I mean, Cliffs of Dover. It will support device link similar to IL-2 so I can probably adapt my multi-throttle tool for it to try to get rid of the reversal bug from all the non-joystick axes. If there is no support for the built in led lights, maybe get some functionality through the tool also. But it pains me to think of the hassle involved when none of this should be necessary. I just want things to work out of the box.

Btw, CoD will probably support separate wheel brakes. Those axes also have the reversal bug. But braking does not need much precision so can probably leave them as is. 13 out of the 15 axes on the G940 have the reversal bug.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

G940 Woes . . .

How long have you had the joystick? Can you return it? Maybe write a letter to Logitech stating that you have a broken product and want to return it if they're not going to fix it.

Worst case scenario, you spend 10 minutes writing an email, best case you get a refund and pick up something different.