Been a while....

[JG52Uther]

So just why has this all started again?
Pretty much everything posted here is in the same thread from a year ago,with maybe a little less abuse (so far)
Most peoples opinions have changed,some have not.But other than that,it is all EXACTLY the same!
This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.
Pathetic.

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Hi everyone, err.....I just remembered why I don't participate much in online discussions, particularly ones in which no consensus, or anything even approaching it will ever be reached. They almost inevitibly descend into petty name calling and childish playground **** slinging from otherwise intelligent grown Men who really should know better, and whilst sometimes it can be quite amusing, it gets old very quick. "And never the twain shall meet".

I've been playing IL-2 for 6 years, so hardly a newcomer. I have been reading the Ubi Forums for about the same. Bearcat, you are pretty much the voice of reason in my opinion, and make usually make a valid, cogent and articulate argument....In the case of mods no exception. As some guy from Minnesota once said, "The Times they are a changing", either roll with it or roll over, your choice. I respect the views of the naysayers, and see where they are coming from, but bottom line is you don't like them then don't use them. The prophesied "Online apocalypse" never happened. Is Nostradamus in the house? Maybe 2012? LMAO. I have two installs, one 4.08 Vanilla, and modded 4.09b1 beta. I play the former exclusively online CRT=2, mods for single player only. The mods as Bearcat rightly points out are in the VAST majority aesthetic and will not turn a bad pilot into an ace. They will however, enhance enjoyment of a title which despite its faults is the best WWII combat simulation there has ever been, to date. Whilst many are in fact rubbish, there are many which are a VAST improvement. Fact. Nothing lasts forever, every thing is in flux.

RE: Cheaters.....they will always be amongst us, bad apples are one of lifes constants and nothing will change in that regard. Call me an optimist or naive, but I truly believe that the OVERWHELMING majority of this community are decent and honourable people, who would never resort to such a low thing. While they of course exist, they remain a pathetic minority. In fact I KNOW it.

But there you go, my Ha'penny. On a lighter note.....all the best to everybody for the New Year, and I hope you all have a good one!!!

~S~ Take care people.

[LEXX]

SaQSoN::

If you stink - you stink. It's a fact and it's stupid to deny it. And, it's a duty of your co-citizen to remind you about basic hygiene. So, I am with the senator on this. Wash yourself often, America!

True true. Well you got me there. I can't argue that one.

[LEXX]

JG52::

This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.

Not quite. The larger evolution of all the mega-threads over time on the various "official" forums (not mod forums) shows Oleg's customers gaining greater confidence.

Last year the rather mature FB/PF community at the Simhq actually shouted down the snotty behaving members that were attacking those interested in the hack mods. Interestingly, when Oleg was forced out of ubi.com (from lack of moderation), he went to the more mod-friendly Simhq community. Its interesting how it all works out as social behavior.

Think playground behavior with a few bullies among the kids, and the kids finally take down the bullies. The *only* difference is the consequences of snotty behavior are not realized like they are on the street or playground, so the snotty anti-mod behavior keeps going and going like Duracell Bunny, although it slowly winds down as some of the bullies finally stop bullying and enjoy their no-mod sim, or they go mod, or leave the sim, leaving fewer bullies behind.

Think about it. You run down the street calling large numbers of people "cheaters." You do this one time. You never do it again.

[LEXX]

Bear (last page)::

In a way I think that perhaps it is better that the sim got hacked rather than Oleg opening it up. Had he opened it up officially he would have had to offer support for that too...

Wow. I must disagree, but realize I'm thinking of what "could have been" had Oleg opened the sim a long way back, when FB was still young, and so supporting mod tools would be a good way of expanding the sim and customer base while the sim was still young, while Oleg focused more on expanding his totally unbeatable game engine. Alot of people asked for just this "approved" modding ability years ago, but were harassed at ubi.com by the bullies. The result is the current popularity of the hack modding today which seems to have no Oleg support. You know...the Road Not Taken and all.

[Wolf_Rider]

...so Oleg just got kicked to the curb instead, eh?

[JG52Uther]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

...so Oleg just got kicked to the curb instead, eh?

Oleg is probably losing less sleep over it than you are.
Seriously,go outside in the fresh air and take a deep breath.

[Wolf_Rider]

Perhaps you could take your own advice?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Whether you disagree or not, that doesn't make you right

Right? See that's the problem... You are missing the pont.. this snt about righnt or wrong... ... the bottom line is the mods are out there use them or don't... either way it is no sweat off my nuts... I use them.. I like them... and I refuse to pass judgment on anyone regardless to their stance. In that respect I have not moved one inch from where I stood when this all jumped off. Fort me this situation does not fall in the realm of right or wrong. Now if there had been a definitive statement from 1C perhaps it would be different.. but there wasnt. Oleg said he dosnt want anything that will allow cheating. I have not seen any of those mods.. but I had enough print screen jerks in IL2 1.20v to know that if people dont want to fly based on skill alone they wont.... You can sweat all this stuff if you want to. I am going to just continue to enjoy the sim.. and promote it wherever I can..

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

So just why has this all started again?
Pretty much everything posted here is in the same thread from a year ago,with maybe a little less abuse (so far)
Most peoples opinions have changed,some have not.But other than that,it is all EXACTLY the same!
This will run for a hundred pages,get more and more abusive,and in the end everyone will be back where they started.
Pathetic.

Uther this all started again (In this thread anyway) because I asked a simple and very legitimate question, considering that it has been over a year since the whole issue arose and enough time has passed to do more than just speculate on what might or could happen with the hacking of the sim, and since the the past year has not brought to fruition 95% of the gloom and doom worries concerning the mods, I was wondering if Oleg had made any statements on the subject since I hadn't visited here in a while and Oleg doesn't post at UBI anymore and this is the official 1C forum, I figured this was the place to come.

The reason I asked the question aside from my own curiosity, considering how this first year has gone (Which is absolutely great IMO.... no UFOs, no laser cannon, no rampant cheating) was because when I did decide to pop back in here I saw a post from a new member, someone who joined this forum in July of 08, asked a question about the mods and all this started up again with that. As I said 15 months ago.. this issue will not go away.... as new people come to this great sim and discover the mods they won't know about the issues and I am certain that most of them will not have issues with them since they are coming from other sims or other venues. Most of the anti mod purists were already in IL2.. partly because it was an unmodded sim and based on past experiences with modded sims that was part of the draw here, I know it was for me, but this has not been unlike any experience with mods I have seen in a sim. The first week on the MSN Zone for me I ran into several people who flew planes that could not be caught, had guns that couldhit you from 15+ miles out and could take a whole load and not even fly differently... It has been a year of mods in this sim and I have yet to see anything that I could legitimately ascribe to something other than lag or pilot error...

so hence my question.

The result was this.... but that still is a legitimate question.

Originally Posted by RCAF_FB_Orville

Hi everyone, err.....I just remembered why I don't participate much in online discussions, particularly ones in which no consensus, or anything even approaching it will ever be reached. They almost inevitibly descend into petty name calling and childish playground **** slinging from otherwise intelligent grown Men who really should know better, and whilst sometimes it can be quite amusing, it gets old very quick. "And never the twain shall meet".

I've been playing IL-2 for 6 years, so hardly a newcomer. I have been reading the Ubi Forums for about the same. Bearcat, you are pretty much the voice of reason in my opinion, and make usually make a valid, cogent and articulate argument....In the case of mods no exception. As some guy from Minnesota once said, "The Times they are a changing", either roll with it or roll over, your choice. I respect the views of the naysayers, and see where they are coming from, but bottom line is you don't like them then don't use them. The prophesied "Online apocalypse" never happened. Is Nostradamus in the house? Maybe 2012? LMAO. I have two installs, one 4.08 Vanilla, and modded 4.09b1 beta. I play the former exclusively online CRT=2, mods for single player only. The mods as Bearcat rightly points out are in the VAST majority aesthetic and will not turn a bad pilot into an ace. They will however, enhance enjoyment of a title which despite its faults is the best WWII combat simulation there has ever been, to date. Whilst many are in fact rubbish, there are many which are a VAST improvement. Fact. Nothing lasts forever, every thing is in flux.

RE: Cheaters.....they will always be amongst us, bad apples are one of lifes constants and nothing will change in that regard. Call me an optimist or naive, but I truly believe that the OVERWHELMING majority of this community are decent and honourable people, who would never resort to such a low thing. While they of course exist, they remain a pathetic minority. In fact I KNOW it.

But there you go, my Ha'penny. On a lighter note.....all the best to everybody for the New Year, and I hope you all have a good one!!!

~S~ Take care people.

Thank you and I couldnt have said it better.

Originally Posted by LEXX

JG52::
Interestingly, when Oleg was forced out of ubi.com (from lack of moderation), he went to the more mod-friendly Simhq community. Its interesting how it all works out as social behavior.

Lexx.... where do you get your information from? FYI SimHQ relaxed it's stance on mods after UBI did. Oleg wa scarce at UBIO long before the mod issue even broke into the mainstream. LONG BEFORE.

[Wolf_Rider]

Yet you can't justify pushing the developer to one side... still