Realistic pilots?

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Baev

I have read some veteran interviews, they don't mention about trims use during combat.

Normally, trim use in combat is only mentioned in reference to dive pull-outs (sometimes not so favourably), which is precisely the sort of time when you'd be limited by your own strength, although I suspect that many pilots preferred not to take the second hand off the stick during these manoeuvres to fiddle with trims.
However I believe Bud Anderson stated that for the P-51 in particular trim use was a constant process, even in combat.

Originally Posted by swiss

I could be wrong but I lived under the impression that in this game the trim function is actually added on top of the max deflection.

I could be wrong, but as far as I remember, this is not the case. At least, if you move the stick to max deflection on the ground and then dial in full trim in that direction, you will not see the elevator move further.

[swiss]

Here's guy who mentions trim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKnxTA50hb8

[Flanker35M]

S!

Finnish ace Kyösti Karhila mentioned that he used trim in Bf109G to start the turn better,they called it the "ace trick". Propably depended on pilot in any air force how much he used trim, if at all, during combat.

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Some people here are also glad you aren't in charge.

Well, we are all entitled to our opinion sir.


Some here forget that.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Furio

This is a gentle and complicated variation of an “ad hominem” argument. Instead of discuss opinions and different point of view, let’s talk of the “can’t be done brigade”, “smoke screens” and people afraid of anything new. It’s not upsetting me that much, but I don’t think it does that much good to a productive discussion either.
And, in the end, as I said many times, if it’s an option, go for it, I have no objections at all!
Cheers.

I admit i was a bit blunt, mainly because i was in a bit of a hurry to word my previous post carefully. Luckily, Helofly addressed this for me.

Originally Posted by JG4_Helofly

I agree with Blackdog. Some players are affraid of new features because it would mean a change of habit.

Another thing is the often mentioned complexity of modeling fatigue. Well, if we wanted we could start talking about the complexity of blackouts/redouts. I bet that if this feature wouldn't already be in the game now, people would say: "But it's too complex, we would have to model blood pressure in different conditions, the ability of the pilot to use the right breathing techniques, the angle of the seat (important for the fw190), G-suits for some late war fighters etc."

You see? Everything in this game is simplified and most features are not even close to perfect. FM, DM, weather, weapons, etc. The list is endless. If everything would have to be 100% perfect, we wouldn't play il2 now.

I understand the scepticism, but I think that we need such a basic limitation if we want to have a realistic combat simulation. The human body is an important limitation in arial combat and can simply not be dismissed.

That was exactly my point. I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's gaming habits or preferred difficulty settings, just trying to make a point (admittedly in a bit of a blunt fashion this time around) that instead of expecting instant perfection we could work within the game limitations to enrich the gameplay experience one little step at a time. Then, as people gradually come to grips with the restrictions it imposes on their habits and learn to work around it, it simply becomes one more difficulty option.

I remember a few years ago (maybe on the ubi forums) a player posting about setting up his grandfather for a mission against a couple of P-38s. He gave the guy the same 109G variant that he used to fly in real life back in the war and sat down to record his observations.
What he said was that his grandfather was flying very cautiously, to the point that the player asked him "they can't wrestle a clear advantage from you but you are not pushing them either, when are you going to actually attack?". Well, the old guy's reply was "the way he's constantly maneuvering all over the place, he'll be too tired to push any real Gs in a few minutes...that's when i will attack".

Mind you, this was not coming from a top ace pilot to be considered a "pro" trick, just one of the thousands of regular airmen who fought in the war and thought that "if it makes me tired to fly like this, then it must also wear the other guy out too", so it leads me to believe it was a very real consideration in combat.

Is the lack of fatigue modeling something that prevents me from enjoying IL2? Definitely not, actually i have started flying IL2 again after a while along with a friend of mine who's making a come back to flight sims and i'm having a blast flying coops with him.
Do i consider it highest priority material? Again, no, it's just a little something extra that would be nice to have and i'm not going to post a direct request to TD to work on such a feature. They are already working for free on a lot of stuff i like and i'm not going to be an ungrateful whiner to them.
Is it doable if someone wants to work on it? Definitely, since it would be a combination of already existing features and game mechanics.

To tell you the truth, i don't even expect to see it in IL2. However, with the new series coming up i think it's good that we all discuss new possibilities to up the ante and challenge during its life, once again not by making demands and expecting certain features on the release of the first version but by putting ideas forward that the developers might be interested in implementing for later patches and updates. Of course, all should ideally be optional so the people who don't like a feature can turn it off. I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade, tell them how to play their game or degrade the value of their personally desired challenge level and entertainment, just trying to enhance my own enjoyment of the game without forcing it on anybody else.

In fact, i think there's no real rivalry at all between us, even if we do at times have to compete for a piece of limited developer resources and time to be devoted to our favorite subject because that's where the developer steps in to decide what to work on. Well, i trust the developers to focus equally on a broad spectrum of enhancements to keep everyone reasonably happy, instead of keeping half of us 100% happy and the rest of us constantly frustrated, so i think that throwing ideas around is definitely positive, no matter how far fetched some of them might seem. Hope that clears it up