Realistic pilots?

[Baev]

TheGrunch

But this is a realistic advantage of using a trim.

My opinion is different. IMO the only purpose of trims is reduction of muscle force needed to control aircraft.I'm not a pilot, but in RL trimming take some time, especially from dead end to opposite dead end. So it seems impossible to use trims during dogfight. In the game it's possible to switch trim for a split second.

[KG26_Alpha]

As it stands now the pilot can bleed out and as he does the forces applied to the control surfaces are reduced until you cant move anything and your screen goes black.

Some variation of these could be used for fatigue as its already in IL2 some "tweaking" could be tested




.

[JG4_Helofly]

I agree with Blackdog. Some players are affraid of new features because it would mean a change of habit.

Another thing is the often mentioned complexity of modeling fatigue. Well, if we wanted we could start talking about the complexity of blackouts/redouts. I bet that if this feature wouldn't already be in the game now, people would say: "But it's too complex, we would have to model blood pressure in different conditions, the ability of the pilot to use the right breathing techniques, the angle of the seat (important for the fw190), G-suits for some late war fighters etc."

You see? Everything in this game is simplified and most features are not even close to perfect. FM, DM, weather, weapons, etc. The list is endless. If everything would have to be 100% perfect, we wouldn't play il2 now.

I understand the scepticism, but I think that we need such a basic limitation if we want to have a realistic combat simulation. The human body is an important limitation in arial combat and can simply not be dismissed.

[Untamo]

Good idea! Maybe it would get some sense in the T&B types

-Untamo

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Baev

My opinion is different. IMO the only purpose of trims is reduction of muscle force needed to control aircraft.I'm not a pilot, but in RL trimming take some time, especially from dead end to opposite dead end. So it seems impossible to use trims during dogfight. In the game it's possible to switch trim for a split second.

There has been a delay on trims in the game since early 4.0x, IIRC. Try it on the ground, you can see it takes a couple of seconds to go from stop to stop even if it's set on a slider, which is perfectly reasonable. Anyway, mainly what I was replying to was this part.

Originally Posted by Baev

Examle: if the pilot is tired, he wouldn't be able to get full stick/pedals deflection, well, it's not necessary, there is a trimm(cheat)

It's not a cheat to be able to get a greater degree of control deflection than you are physically able to pull from your current trim point by using a trim. Trim essentially moves the zero stick-force point around within the bounds of control deflection.

[Baev]

There has been a delay on trims in the game since early 4.0x ...

Yes, I'm wrong...
About energy bleeding.... IMO trims can't reduce it.

I have read some veteran interviews, they don't mention about trims use during combat.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by winny

Just because you can't model something 100% accurately dosn't mean it shouldn't be even considered.. Otherwise there would be no IL-2.

Why have blackouts at all?
And any suggestions made on the forum should be optional. Relax.

I’m relaxed, thank you!

But you should notice that none of my objections and questions received any answer or reply, and that, at the same time, the list of complications asked to TD is piling up. I simply stated clearly my preference.

I understand that everything in a sim is not a replica of life, but all the requests I’ve read so far (with the sole possible exception of blackout tweaking) are unrealistic (in my opinion) so I can’t see how they can make a more realistic pilot. On the contrary, I see them as an arbitrary list of “health and power” such as you can find in a MMORPG.

Anyway, all request are legitimate. Peace!

[swiss]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

It's not a cheat to be able to get a greater degree of control deflection than you are physically able to pull from your current trim point by using a trim. Trim essentially moves the zero stick-force point around within the bounds of control deflection.

I could be wrong but I lived under the impression that in this game the trim function is actually added on top of the max deflection.

If the trim "cheat" works at low speed too I'm correct, if not, I'm wrong.

I have read some veteran interviews, they don't mention about trims use during combat.

Maybe because they were lacking the needed, additional hand?




Stamina:

I really like the thought of an ingame ace with the stamina of an Olympic Athlete - while in real life there's just a fat moron sitting in front of the pc with a bowl of chips next to him.

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by swiss

I could be wrong but I lived under the impression that in this game the trim function is actually added on top of the max deflection.

If the trim "cheat" works at low speed too I'm correct, if not, I'm wrong.




Maybe because they were lacking the needed, additional hand?




Stamina:

I really like the thought of an ingame ace with the stamina of an Olympic Athlete - while in real life there's just a fat moron sitting in front of the pc with a bowl of chips next to him.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

So, i tend to see the arguments about fatigue modeling being overly complex as a diversion for the community to focus on in an effort to discredit the feature as non feasible. But why?

I think all the talk about it being overly complex to achieve or the need for it to be ultra realistic from the get go is just smoke and mirrors to prevent it from happening because then, oh noes, we would have to adapt to something new!

This is a gentle and complicated variation of an “ad hominem” argument. Instead of discuss opinions and different point of view, let’s talk of the “can’t be done brigade”, “smoke screens” and people afraid of anything new. It’s not upsetting me that much, but I don’t think it does that much good to a productive discussion either.
And, in the end, as I said many times, if it’s an option, go for it, I have no objections at all!
Cheers.