SHOOTING at the OLYMPICS

[F19_Klunk]

Of course u understand that Stern... I have higher thoughts of u (or anybody else in this forum) than that. Of course u understand that people can discern fiction from facts. Just because I don't like the notion that firearms are free for all to buy with no restrictions, doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good action movie or can't be interested in combat flight sims... I am SURE you understand that.. your just trying to make a point mate

[kendo65]

Given the vehemence of the arguments here on both sides, can I offer a hypothetical question...

There has been a lot of talk about the need for guns to defend oneself/family/freedom from a government gone wrong or bad, with the implication being that the U.S. may at some point in the future (if not already according to some people) be ruled by such a government.

In such a scenario those in favour of gun ownership see themselves as potential defenders of freedom.

Here's the hypothetical bit: supposing that after several more shooting incidents of the kind seen recently a big majority of the US population and both main parties switched to advocating stronger gun control. Supposing that a democratically elected government expressing the will of the majority of the people enacted to enforce these measures.

What do you do? Do you reluctantly admit to the democratic will of the people? In such circumstances you can hardly see yourselves as still upholding freedom and democracy?

(I suppose what I'm getting at is that in Europe there seems to be more of a distrust and fear of loose amalgams of people or organisations that may be armed to the teeth and possess certain political views than there is of democratically elected governments. The general mindset here is that we need good governments to protect the population from whatever rag-bag set of extremists with a grievance that may come along...and that consequently it is wise to limit the availability of guns so that such extremists can not challenge democratically controlled police and armed forces)

[kendo65]

Can i also say that many in the U.S. seem to have extremely low faith in democracy, checks and balances, etc, etc.

If the country was emerging from 60 years of communist dictatorship I could understand more what that was about, but for a country that prides itself on democratic values and freedom there seems to be one hell of a loss of faith.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by F19_Klunk

Of course u understand that Stern... I have higher thoughts of u (or anybody else in this forum) than that. Of course u understand that people can discern fiction from facts. Just because I don't like the notion that firearms are free for all to buy with no restrictions, doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good action movie or can't be interested in combat flight sims... I am SURE you understand that.. your just trying to make a point mate

It's still a contradiction in terms though, when I fly the sim myself I don't think "die you Nazi s..t!", it's more of a measure of skills, yet when I fly for real I have a completely different attitude, I don't even dare doing manoeuvres that I do in the sim, but I wonder how turning one of the darkest conflicts of human kind in a sim is actually doing us any good..


I was thinking about this watching the latest Batman a few nights ago: Batman used to be a super-hero and his reality was a bit dystopian, and there was an element of surrealism to it. Nowadays they're desperately trying to make as realistic as possible, even when it's not strictly necessary, and in a way they're kinda doing more harm than good to our society. Fiction has become a perfect portrayal of reality, and if back in the days there used to be some non-written rules about keeping decency and strong images outside the mass stream communication, nowadays it's ALL about it.
And no, not all people can discern fiction from reality apparently, surely not 24 years old that rig their house with explosives and go on a shooting rampage killing people randomly. THAT is the stuff to worry about, the signs that the problem with society is alienation, not firearms.

[F19_Klunk]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

It's still a contradiction in terms though, when I fly the sim myself I don't think "die you Nazi s..t!", it's more of a measure of skills, yet when I fly for real I have a completely different attitude, I don't even dare doing manoeuvres that I do in the sim, but I wonder how turning one of the darkest conflicts of human kind in a sim is actually doing us any good..


I was thinking about this watching the latest Batman a few nights ago: Batman used to be a super-hero and his reality was a bit dystopian, and there was an element of surrealism to it. Nowadays they're desperately trying to make as realistic as possible, even when it's not strictly necessary, and in a way they're kinda doing more harm than good to our society. Fiction has become a perfect portrayal of reality, and if back in the days there used to be some non-written rules about keeping decency and strong images outside the mass stream communication, nowadays it's ALL about it.
And no, not all people can discern fiction from reality apparently, surely not 24 years old that rig their house with explosives and go on a shooting rampage killing people randomly. THAT is the stuff to worry about, the signs that the problem with society is alienation, not firearms.

Contradictions in terms? That I want gun control but can enjoy action movies and enjoy flying combat sim? I see no contradiction there at all mate.. naaah sorry mate
I would say at least 98% of all Swedes are FOR our regulations and gun laws... does that mean they/we can't enjoy a good action movie or play brainless 1st personn shooters? naaah

Sure, there are nuts who cannot discern fiction from facts.. like this dude who thought he was the Joker.. and a great example of why gun control is important... a necessity even. AND as you say; alienation... and/or medical healthcare (phyciatric treatment) in this case. ( too bad if you or your family can't afford it but that is another topic... )

I think is still boils down to; people who are against gun control is against it because it's a matter of principle...(it's a "right" and it is regulated in 2nd amendment)... people who are for gun control seems to me to be more pragmatic. It's up for each and every country to decide, through democratic process, which way to go. I can't see any gun control law beeing introduced in any/many of the US states any time soon (maybe some blue states). Not a chance for a federal law though.

[Jaws2002]

Originally Posted by csThor

I have no problems with hunters owning weapons (not owning them would make that profession rather pointless, wouldn't it?) or people who like sportive shooting as a hobby. I do believe, however, that there is no need for anyone to own assault rifles, MGs or even more than one or two handguns.

A firearm to be assault rifle has to be select fire, (able to fire on full automatic) .
99% of what people call "assault rifles" are not assault rifles. Just semiautomatic rifles that are either based on some assault rifle design or in many cases just look like an assault rifle.
The thing is there are a lot of people that are active in anti firearms circles and even in governments, making laws, that know so little about the subject that use looks in making their decisions in what's dangerous and what's not.

You see some pearls coming from this people that you shake your head thinking, how come someone so ignorant about the subject is allowed to make laws about it.

Here are few examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...QqieimwLQ&NR=1

The problem is that, even if you take away the semiauto rifles, the anti gun machine will not stop there. They'll go for the hand guns , then shot guns, then bolt action guns and then the firearms of the police, so in the end only criminals have guns.
Some people think that just by removing guns, (from those not likely to shoot anyone), people would stop killing eachother. It's a utopia. We were slaughtering eachother for thousands of years without guns.

[von Pilsner]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I still really do wonder what these anti-guns preachers are doing here in a military combat simulator where they fire with cannons and machineguns at other aircraft.. why you're not using Flight Simulator or X-Plane?

Come on, you know the difference between games and reality.

[von Pilsner]

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

The problem is that, even if you take away the semiauto rifles, the anti gun machine will not stop there. They'll go for the hand guns , then shot guns, then bolt action guns and then the firearms of the police, so in the end only criminals have guns.

Not true, an assault weapons ban is just that. You are just fear mongering to stir up the pro gun crowd.

[F19_Klunk]

Hmm the more I read this "guns don't people, people kill people", the more pissed off I get. FOR ME (i am talking about ME here) it is an absurd asinine argument .No doubt whoever said it first thought it was quite profound...

So let’s see, someone needs to defend the poor innocent little gun.. It’s not the gun’s fault that it falls into the hands of criminals, lunatics, suicides and mauronns who accidentally shoot their own foot off or worse. The fact is the way you CONTROL misuse of guns is to limit people’s access to them and control by legislation, their allowed use of them in a CICILIZED society.

I wonder if u guys a pro nuclear weapons. "nukes don't kill people. people kill people" . Why not drop all the regulations around nuclear weapons?

I can somewhat understand some arguments that some people put forward.. but that phrase.. just.. pisses .. me..off.

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

We were slaughtering eachother for thousands of years without guns.

i REALLY hope we have evolved as societies... during those tousands of years....

[Jaws2002]

Originally Posted by von Pilsner

Not true, an assault weapons ban is just that. You are just fear mongering to stir up the pro gun crowd.

It's been proven beyound the shadow of a doubt that I am right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2B...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmrqT...eature=related