Wich joystick to buy?

[TheGrunch]

I have the original PC Saitek Aviator, and I love it, feel-wise it's an excellent stick, but....after only 2 weeks the auto-calibration feature on mine went really dodgy and the second throttle is now all but useless, since during flight it can do anything from just wandering between about +-10% throttle setting to losing half of the range of the axis, so it's calibrated so that the middle of the axis is at the bottom of the throw and the end of the axis is at the bottom of the throw. If I'd had it set to elevator trim I could only trim down once it went crazy. And there seems to be no way to fix the problem bar deleting a certain registry key and restarting the computer.

Saitek's tech support are now unbelievably appalling. Time was I'd have been shocked to hear someone say that, but now they've been bought out by Mad Catz they really are awful. I am IP banned from the Saitek forum, apparently. Funny that, since it told me that as I was trying to register my first ever account on there to ask for help with the Aviator. Perhaps that's how they keep the numbers down in the tech support forum. Pre-banning.

I was lucky, though, other people have had the same problems on more than one axis, including the main X and Y axes.

I was a bit concerned that the same problems were spreading to the main throttle, which would have made the whole stick useless to me, but the worst that has happened with the main throttle is the aforementioned +-10% wandering.

In the end the best solution was simply not to install the Saitek software (used JoyToKey instead for view hat mouse emulation, since that was all I used the Saitek software for anyway), since the software was what seemed to be causing the majority of the trouble (the trouble seems to come on from task-switching during play...or just completely randomly, take your pick). I'm not sure that the problem's been eliminated, though, since I haven't really flown since I uninstalled the Saitek software ages ago. It seems like the problems take a while to set in after you make a change like changing the USB port that you use, or something like that.

Another complaint is that the spring-loaded button to connect the two throttles together is really cheaply and badly made and after flying a twin about a month after buying the damn thing, mine is now stuck tied together and won't come unstuck no matter what I do from standard pushing it in up to much more delicate or much more violent means...possibly I'll have to saw the little dowel that connects from the first to the second throttle in half.

Finally, the hand rest for the stick was also really tacky, and I couldn't get the cheap screws to go into the hand rest the whole way, so it was never on tightly and it just sat there and rattled aggravatingly until I took it off.

Those are the BAD things. But, the stick itself is very nice to use. I'm probably going to replace the board that came with it with one of Leo Bodnar's boards because they're so much more reliable. What's the NEED for an auto-calibration function, especially one so useless and glitchy? It's a good job I bought the stick with the Bodnar board in mind (along with extending it with a length of PVC piping to see what a longer-throw stick is like).

To be honest, if you're not bothered with FFB or a throttle and you really need reliability, I'd go with the CH Combat Stick, since it's about the same price as the X-52 the others have been suggesting but is far more reliably made. For a cheaper and equally reliable option, you can really only buy a controller board (Leo Bodnar's BU0836 are the best option according to most) and make a stick yourself. Here is a good thread for you made by a bloke in a similar situation.

[janpitor]

I would suggest Logitech extreme 3D PRO. I have it probably about 7 or more years..i dont remember precisely, and it is very precise. No bumps, but last year i had to put a little bit of harder paper between the sensor and body of joystick to eliminate a little bit bigger center zone with no force.

The other possibility is FFB version of this joy, which my mate owns, but he has it for a short time, so i cant speak about reliability.

[Armatian]

Thanks a lot, very helpful input. I'm trying to locate thrustmaster and ch distribution in my lame part of the world.
I will avoid saitek low end for now, as i said, i only enjoy driving now that i have logitech g25, it's just that costs so damn much here, i needed to save for 18 months -_-
But considering i enjoy just driving, or just flying, checking dials, manual mixture and propeller rpm, i think that serious products or diy is my way to go.
Finally i relocated bodnar work, thanks for the links people, i wish i had credit card, i'm doing ptc to have some paypal money now D=

PD: FF it's really not a go, i fly occasionally with my father and can assure that feedback is in your butt, not in the stick, unlike driving that is 50-60% wheel feedback.

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Armatian

PD: FF it's really not a go, i fly occasionally with my father and can assure that feedback is in your butt, not in the stick, unlike driving that is 50-60% wheel feedback.

LOL, perhaps a buttkicker combined with FFB? On the serious side, it's a damn shame that Saitek's QC is so spotty, because they have some really nice stuff. My first x52 lasted for 3-4 years of hard flying, the second; barely six months. For me it's not so bad, since they're fairly cheap here and I have the resources to replace them. For that reason I can't recommend Saitek for you and I have little experience with other stuff.

[albx]

I also had an Aviator, and as TheGrunch said I also had calibration and centering problems. Than i bought the thrustmaster Flight Hotas-x and it is awesome. The throttle can be detached, it's very ergonomic and more precise than the Saitek Aviator.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Unfortunately their are no really good FFB sticks around anymore. The FFB stick to beat all FFB sticks was the MSFFB2 but they are hard to come by new and also I have heard they are hard to setup with win7 especially 64 bit.

There are:

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/gaming...s/devices/5855

but the Pro is beefier, at least thats my understanding

The Pro uses the same hardware.
Differences are:

- 2nd spring
- some alloy trimm knobs instead of plastic
- different MFD(which nobody needs)

that's it.
Safe the money for pedals.

[MikkOwl]

I have a Logitech Extreme 3D PRO also. It works 'okay'. Has a nasty twist-stick which works very badly and feels loose and nasty, which I wish could be locked somehow. Accuracy is not great either but with curves it is not a big concern. Has a throttle flap for the left hand which works very well if on a desk. The ergonomics are excellent; superbly comfortable to use. Great for the non-hardcore or poorer flight simmer. Something to give to a friend so they can get introduced to something like IL-2 without hassle.

I have a G940 also. It has a lot of good things about it but has some really really nasty driver problems that are infuriating. Especially the 'reversal bug' - has been in existance for a whole year yet Logitech has not yet fixed it. The force feedback is great and apart from the bug, the stick feels like a very solid, high quality item with no flex or twist. Comes with Throttle and Pedals (both severely affected by the reversal bug as of yet). The cost is far too high for the original poster however so just mention it for comparison. I would not recommend it to anyone unless the reversal bug is fixed.

My recommendation judging by what the poster asked for would be one of those CH sticks. Accurate, durable workhorses.

Force feedback - For sure the G-forces in the whole body are much, much more noticeable than the changing forces in the control stick. But never the less, the real controls, especially in something like a Bf 109 with a single grip stick and very cramped cabin, do change with speed. From very loose to extremely tight. There's also other forces such as vibrations, uneven airflow over wings when near stall or with gears down etc. In reality the whole body is also thrown around along with the vibrations/movements felt in the stick. Force feedback moving the stick around at the right frequency can help simulate the effect of having the real body/arm thrown around.

Having no real G-forces to deal with at all, the feeling from force feedback in IL-2 adds a lot for me. Super cool. Downsides is noise, cost, heat, electricity, cabling and the movement/resistance feels more notchy the more resistance there is.

[Untamo]

Hi.

Do you have (some) spare time? If you do, make your own joystick!

My squadmate is currently working on his own stick.. I have made my own rudder pedals and thinking of making a stick too when the TM Cougar dies. Probably going to recycle lots of parts from it.

It really isn't that hard, especially with things like the Bodnar chip (courtesy of Leo Bodnar http://www.leobodnar.com/). There's lot's of info and projects about this stuff available with instructions to make your own.

And the main seller is the price. You can make a really good system with less than 50 euros. Assuming you have the tools .. For example the parts for my rudder pedals totaled under 20 euros.


-Untamo

[Armatian]

Ah of course, i forgot hi performance planes, wich of course i haven't flown.
I remember japan ace, saburo sakai noting that rookie kamikazes shouldn't have done dives, because at high speed with big control surfaces, zero's stick became like a rock and they used to water crash low unable to lift.
So FF still not a priority for me, but you have made a good point.

PD: wow that logitech looks beatiful, maybe i'll be tempted to sell a kidney.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by albx

Than i bought the thrustmaster Flight Hotas-x and it is awesome. The throttle can be detached, it's very ergonomic and more precise than the Saitek Aviator.

I had this stick for 48hrs - and returned it.

The stick itself is pretty well made, unfortunately it lacks some buttons.
Worst part: the resistance of the stick is not linear to it's movement range - it increases somewhere at 75% and decreases at 8x%.

The throttle is just cheap, the friction is a joke, and the rocker switch is of no use at all since it's an axis.

No mapping software either.

Conclusion: It's cheap, but it's a crappy hotas too.
Go and buy a better "not hotas" stick for the money, or if you want hotas: spend more.

and more precise

Didn't feel very precise, however I can only compare it to the x52.