Been a while....

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Bandit Bill

Yeah, something about a vague BOB vaporware supposedly coming out at about the same time as Duke Nukem Forever..

Pft... I know, a lamer would not understand... But, I believe, it's clear to everyone else, that BoB is not the reason. It is a consequence.

Originally Posted by Bandit Bill

Which is why the modders took over, where Oleg et al had left off, with massive holes in the IL2 content.. Get over that.

Yes, I know, it's a law of nature: when something dies, scavengers and other sh|t eaters step in to have their prey. It's ok with me, don't worry.

I just hope, the role, *you* choose for yourself, fits you well.

[Chivas]

What's with the developer trashing. The modders would have nothing to mod without the hard work of the developers. Ofcourse the IL-2 series wasn't perfect, neither will the SOW series. Even the mods are far less than perfect. Thats an impossible task given the complexity of whats trying to be accomplished on todays computers. SOW will become closer to perfection as the series grows and computers become more capable.

The IL-2 series is dead as a commercial product as its impossible to support IL-2 and develop SOW. It may have been possible if the developers crew was larger and we actually paid what the software is worth. Even then there would be no point in maintaining IL-2 as most of the community will move on. There will always be a few diehards, but Il-2 will die a slow death even in the mod community when SOW is released with a mod friendly componant.

Trashing the developer is one of the most clueless points of view I've read in the IL-2 forums.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

Pft... I know, a lamer would not understand... But, I believe, it's clear to everyone else, that BoB is not the reason. It is a consequence.



Yes, I know, it's a law of nature: when something dies, scavengers and other sh|t eaters step in to have their prey. It's ok with me, don't worry.

I just hope, the role, *you* choose for yourself, fits you well.

You asked me to show you where you were slandering Il2 customers, well you just showed it yourself.

Also, to suggest that BoB is in development as a consequence of il2 cracking/modding is ridiculous, you should know better than to beleive your own bs.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

Do you think, the developers had no serious reason for dropping IL-2 support?
You'd be surprised, how few people would actually buy such addon and how expensive it would be in development. Sorry, but that not going to work. No add-on for IL-2 (except for some mission/campaign packs, may be) can be profitable at the moment.
IL-2 is dead as a commercial enterprise. Get on with that.

I don't know about that. I bought every add on that came out that had new content. The third party campaign things I could take or leave.. but the new content was a must. I am sure that like many of us who had FB+AEP+PF already buying Pe-2 was a no brainer. I would have been more than willing to buy SoM & 46 as separate add ons as well even if they were not released as an all ion one DVD.. as it was I bought the DVD... I know many folks myself included who would have been willing to pay for every single thing we got in the mods as separate add ons had they been released by 1C. Did the fact that so many people pirated PF & Pe-2 play a factor in 1C deciding that it would not be worth the time and work & expense of developing more add ons with with SoW in the oven?

Originally Posted by Bandit Bill

Yeah, something about a vague BOB vaporware supposedly coming out at about the same time as Duke Nukem Forever..

Which is why the modders took over, where Oleg et al had left off, with massive holes in the IL2 content.. Get over that.

SoW is hardly vaporware. I wonder if those who maintain this erroneaous line of thought will be man enough to admit they are wrong when the sim is finally released...


That's not why the modders took over at all. If they could have they would have modded this sim earlier. Count on it. This was not something that started after support for FB stopped. This has been going on for years, it just became acessable to a larger group of folks @ 2 years or so ago. When the 4.09 patch came out the sim was modded... so that line iof thought is wrong.

[robtek]

Did i "trash" the developers, i don´t think so.
I stated the facts as i see them:
There is/was a need for new Maps and Planes and no source = fact!
OM and his team were/are developing SoW:BoB and had/have no time to spare for IL2 = fact!
The Mack - Community is, at this time, the only source to satisfy those needs = fact!

I, for my part would gladly pay for a "OM - Patch" that unifies the Il2 - community again until SoW:BoB is published.

[Bandit Bill]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know about that. I bought every add on that came out that had new content. The third party campaign things I could take or leave.. but the new content was a must. I am sure that like many of us who had FB+AEP+PF already buying Pe-2 was a no brainer. I know many folks myself included who would have been willing to pay for every single thing we got in the mods as seprate add ons had they been released by 1C. It was for me. Did the fact that so many people pirated PF & Pe-2 play a factor in 1C deciding that it would not be worth the time and work & expense of developing more add ons with with SoW in the oven?





SoW is hardly vaporware. I wonder if those who maintain this erroneaous line of thought will be man enough to admit they are wrong when the sim is finally released...


That's not why the modders took over at all. If they could have they would have modded this sim earlier. Count on it. This was not something that started after support for FB stopped. This has been going on for years, it just became acessable to a larger group of folks @ 2 years or so ago. When the 4.09 patch came out the sim was modded... so that line iof thought is wrong.

Sorry, but when dates slip by years.. until it appears on store shelves, it's much hallyboo'd vaporware. Nothing more nothing less. If it comes out, great.. i'm not holding my breath though, and i certainly won't be first in line.

If they coulda, they woulda.. yes i know. But, by circumstance and timing, this is essentially where the mods took over where the developers left off.. they did a fine job on what they did do, but the legit mod community came about essentially on the premise that what exists can be improved, and what doesn't, can be made to exist .. in time. Obviously more time and/or resources than 1C:Maddox had..

It's a chicken vs the egg argument.. what cheats/'mods' existed before patch 4.09 came about were not released to the wild.. when patch 4.09 came out, it was fortuitious that the mod community picked up the slack, knowing that no further mods were expected (yeah, we all know about the 4.09 final, whenever THAT may come out..)

It's funny.. people seem to revel in demonizing the 'hack' of IL2.. i am only surprised that it had stayed un-hacked as long as it did - a hack didn't go 'wild' until the commercial viability of IL2 had essentially run it's course - perhaps it even gave the franchise a little extra boost through new people picking up a copy, to play with the mods.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro

You asked me to show you where you were slandering Il2 customers, well you just showed it yourself.

And whom do I slander here, may I ask? Can you point to anyone specific?

Except for the mod distributors, off course, who may not be considered a legal customers anymore, for they violate the vendor's copyrights and thus deserve their slander.

Everything otherwise - is just a symmetrical response.

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro

Also, to suggest that BoB is in development as a consequence of il2 cracking/modding is ridiculous, you should know better than to beleive your own bs.

Where did I suggest it?
Take a better attention to what I post, please. Then, it would be obvious to you, that I suggested, the BoB development is a consequence to IL-2 [commercial] death, and not the reason thereof, as someone tries to imply.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by robtek

Did i "trash" the developers, i don´t think so.
There is/was a need for new Maps and Planes and no source = fact!

This, that you present as a fact.... is just plain wrong...
You just volontary ignore the big number of theird-party planes and maps developped for free and that appeared in different add-ons, the last beiing 4.09... that helas will probably never see the day in its finished state.
So there was a source... telling there wasn't any is a lie.

officially controled and supported modding, even if most of today's pro-"free"-modding conveniently ignore it, was a reality, that brougth to the game a big number of planes and maps.
I also remember well at that time, asking for help on some forums to built some 3D objects for a map, or for some other stuff, getting no (or sparse) reply and help.... thus showing the lack of appeal of constrainted modding (with rules, quality check and official control).
when the battery of "modding/hacking" tools becomes available to almost everybody, and ruleless/constraintless/controless free modding became possible, modding became more appealing and the big mod mess begun.

I bet 1000 Euros with any taker it will be exactly the same with SoW:BoB.... whatever the quality and oppening of the modding tools in it: as long there will be an official dev control (with dev and quality rules) on what will be fully and officially integrated in the game, we will see some good quality mods... at a slow pace...
... when some hacking tool will be available (hopefully not too soon....), then the crow of modders will mess again...

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Did the fact that so many people pirated PF & Pe-2 play a factor in 1C deciding that it would not be worth the time and work & expense of developing more add ons with with SoW in the oven?

It's hardly a matter of piracy. I'd say, it's loss of interest in wide public. The sales of anything FB/PF-related were steadily going down after PF, which was the last success of the series, actually. With such dynamics, if there was a next add-on after 46, it wouldn't be able to cover it's dev.costs. Even if each die-hard fan would buy 2 copies of it.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

It's hardly a matter of piracy. I'd say, it's loss of interest in wide public. The sales of anything FB/PF-related were steadily going down after PF, which was the last success of the series, actually. With such dynamics, if there was a next add-on after 46, it wouldn't be able to cover it's dev.costs. Even if each die-hard fan would buy 2 copies of it.

Wow.. I didn't know that...

I hope that the part of SoW that Oleg will make moddable will never cross over to the core of the sim.. I believe that since he is doing SoW from the ground up he is probably making it so that the FMs are so encrypted that they can never be gotten to.. but iother things like maps etc.. can.. at least I hope that's they way he makes it..