so if a bomber takes 2 gunsights at 100m and 1 at 100 m then how many at 150 m?

[zapatista]

what size is your monitor ?

and during game play what distance are you most comfortable with as a viewing distance for your monitor ? (eg distance between eyes and monitor)

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by zapatista

what size is your monitor ?

and during game play what distance are you most comfortable with as a viewing distance for your monitor ? (eg distance between eyes and monitor)

24"...2 feet away...thanks Zap

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

24"...2 feet away...thanks Zap

hiya slipball,

i'll convert your inches to cm since i mainly use metric, but you can also use inches. the way i write the formulae is slightly different version then the previous poster, but the principle is the same. always use horizontal viewable area of your screen size, and not diagonal measurements (which is what screen sizes for monitors are advertised in)

the purpose of this is to have the size of the screen in front of you (viewable area) represent exactly the % of your real life FoV. when you then use this setting in the il2/CoD series of games you should now be able to see all ingame objects exactly in their 1:1 sizes compared to what you would see in real life if "looking out a window" in a similar situation ( at the same object from the same distance). since object size (incl buildings etc) significantly affect your sense of speed and perception of distance, for a flightsim this "FoV variable' would seem rather important to get right (since we are presumably interested in SIMULATING what a real ww2 pilot would see in similar circumstances).

FoV = {arctan [( monitor size / 2) / viewing distance ] } x2

or slightly more verbose, to clarify:
"CoD correct FoV setting" = {arctan [(size horz monitor / 2) / viewing distance ] } x2

which in your case means:
FoV = { arctan [( 52 cm / 2) / 60 cm)] } x2
FoV = { arctan [ 26 cm / 60 cm ] } x2
FoV = { arctan [ 0.4333 ] } x2
FoV = { 23.42 } x 2
FoV = 46.84

so in your case you would select 45 FoV (in the old il2 series 1946 etc you could for ex set the FoV by 5 degree steps between 35 and 90). at that point all ingame objects should be 1:1 in their correct sizes, you should be able to see/spot/track them from the same distance as in real life and your "sense of speed" in flying should be correct.

if any distant aircraft/trucks/tanks are then still harder to see then in RL then there is a design error in the game (for ex faulty lod models with missing parts, like we had for some spitfire models in the old il2 with missing wings etc). some people in CoD use "tricks" to try and improve visibility of distant aircraft (the mesh hack, adding AA, changing contrasts, changing screen resolution) but the first and most important thing to get right is to set the FoV correctly. once that is done you have a normal baseline of comparison between players and different pc systems, and we can compare on equal terms what people can or cant see, and then compare this to real life events. and if some still think visibility is not as good as in real life, then we should look for in-game errors or specific game visibility issues (for ex adding visibility enhancements for the smallest most distant Lod models for ex, eg painting them darker or brighter) to bring CoD object visibility closer to what we would see in real life.

note for calculating FoV with above method:
- make sure you always use screen viewing area (not monitor size with bezel included), and use horizontal size not diagonal size
- use same measurement values (meters, cm or inch etc) in all parts of formulae

interestingly you'll find a significant amount of fake-real wannabe's "game the game" in il2 by using zoom views to scan for distant object (no fighter pilot in ww2 used binoculars to hunt for targets, and neither did they have binoculars strapped to their helmets with a magic zoom/wide button), and although intuitively many of us want to use the "wide" view during a dogfight to increase SA of aircraft around us, it is also disorienting because using the wide view proportionately shrinks these same objects around us in size so they now seem farther away (and it distorts the sens of speed in closing/disengaging). there is nothing wrong with briefly snapping to zoom/wide views in il2/cod imho to make up for the fact we are sitting in our living rooms behind a relatively small monitor, instead of having a real cockpit 360 degree view like real pilots, but .... but the purpose/setup imho in CoD/il2 should focus on representing a correct view of the ingame world most of the time.

[SlipBall]

OK cool much appreciated, thanks for your time

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

OK cool much appreciated, thanks for your time

so have you set your CoD to a 45 FoV to see if it makes a difference in improving your distant object visibility and sense of speed ?

was expecting it to raise and additional question

[raaaid]

and what happens with 6d0f trackers in which distance to screen is not fixed?

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by raaaid

and what happens with 6d0f trackers in which distance to screen is not fixed?

using trackir w 6dof in CoD works exactly as intended
- when you lean forward for ex all instruments and dials in the cockpit magnify proportionately and are easier to read
- the distant objects you look at, for ex an aircraft at 600 m or a ship at 1000 m will not change in size (as they shouldnt)
note: also the gunsight works correctly

using trackir, if your FoV is set correctly, leaning forward or back will not change the size (significantly) of any distant ingame object you are viewing on your screen

[raaaid]

nope you got the fixed point of view concept right but the moving point of view concept wrong

if you move forward fov should increase to keep at 1:1 aspect ratio but currently it remains constant and some implementation do it even worse and when you close by fov decreases

gates intelligently as usual figured it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2hxaijuZ6w

[raaaid]

Originally Posted by zapatista

- the distant objects you look at, for ex an aircraft at 600 m or a ship at 1000 m will not change in size (as they shouldnt)

this is where you go wrong if you half your distance to the screen distant objects will appear double big on the screen and therefore half as distant in your brain

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by raaaid

this is where you go wrong if you half your distance to the screen distant objects will appear double big on the screen and therefore half as distant in your brain

wrong

my earlier statement was entirely correct

maybe you mean to say something different then what you are typing (or are not able to understand coherently what others have communicated), but from what you just stated you are mixing up your apples and pears and are making a soup of things.
- leaning forward to your screen in CoD with the trackir 6DoF (if correctly implemented) will not "make distant *aircraft* objects appear double big on the screen". "in cockpit" objects like dials and control will be relatively larger (same as leaning forward to a close-by object in RL) because it now occupies a larger part of your eye's FoV, but any distant object (like an aircraft at 500 m for ex) willl NOT now suddenly "appear double big on the screen", and it will in fact stay the same size on your screen (as they should, and would in RL if you lean closer to a window pane while looking at an aircraft 500 m away). that is exactly the whole point i was making earlier.
- btw, regarding terminology you use, leaning forward to your screen in CoD without the trackir 6DoF will still not "make distant *aircraft* objects appear double big on the screen" (their size will remain unchanged on the screen), but because after leaning closer to the screen they now occupy a larger part of your eyeball FoV this means that to your brain they will appear larger. obviously the dials and controls of the cockpit will appear to your brain to enlarge when you lean forward as they would in RL (because in the RL cockpit they are at arms length from you, and the screen for most pc gamers is also at arms length from them), meaning that when you lean closer to these nearby objects they now occupy a significantly larger part of your FoV (but without the 6dof track-ir, if you measure them onscreen they remain unchanged in size obviously).

the earlier statement i made in my previous post is only for the trackir 6DoF principle, presuming the track ir is working correctly (and is implemented as intended). so WITH the correctly functioning track-ir 6DoF in that case, "leaning forward" in the cockpit will:
a) visually magnify to you the dials and controls in the cockpit (depending on how much closer you lean), this occurs simply because they now occupy a larger part of your eyeball FoV when you lean forwards, exactly as happens in normal RL situation.
b) distant aircraft seen from the cockpit (for ex a 109 at 1000 meters) will stay exactly the same size to your eye FoV (as they would in real life, because leaning 20 cm closer to an object 500 meters away does NOT make it occupy a larger part of your eyeball FoV).

and as i also previously stated the amazing design of CoD even gives you a working reflector gunsight if you use the 6DoF of your trackir (whuch illustrates this point exactly), where, as you lean forward the whole gunsight will appear larger to you (since you are leaning closer to it) but the illuminated gunsight reticle you are aiming with at a distant aircraft will stay the correct size in proportion to the distant aircraft you are looking at (which remains unchanged in size)

without the trackir 6DoF in CoD the size changes of the in=cockpit and "distant external objects" will stay "coupled' (which it doesnt in RL):
- "leaning forward" in the cockpit will then
a) visually magnify to you the dials and controls in the cockpit (depending on how much closer you lean)
b) distant aircraft seen from the cockpit will similarly appear to visually magnify on screen to your eye FoV (which they shouldnt, and they obviously dont do in a similar RL situation) because their size might remain unchanged on the screen but you have now leaned significantly closer to it so it will occupy a larger relative part of your eye FoV


but there is no need to digress into all of that, the whole point about the FoV discussion in the previous posts i made is that, with your FoV correctly setup for your monitor size (and you using your preferred viewing distance as a starting point when you setup the game), then from then onwards (because later you'll move your head at various times closer or further away from the screen), the distant objects (outside the cockpit) should constantly still appear to you in their correct 1:1 sizes (while leaning closer to the cockpit dials/controls will make them easier to read). hence the importance of knowing what your personal "correct FoV" is, and setting up CoD/il2 accordingly at the start of gameplay.