British FM killing the fun of the game for allied pilots.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by swift

Would you mind to continue the stability discussion in this thread:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...=33245&page=94


so we could continue discussing the general performance of the spit in the recent patch that is speed, overheating and climb?

Some people are interested in these issues.

Too true, Crumpp can continue with his Spitfire elevator fetish on his own time - his bug tracker has gotten nowhere and he just wants to re-litigate this non-issue by hijacking this thread.

Has anyone got the engine data in the Spitfire I and Hurricane I Pilot's Notes?

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

This has been covered over and over. You know the answer and can read the POH.

I do know what they say and I do believe the fact that in a high speed stall the aircraft will bang and clatter is a really serious issue.
I mean what else would you expect to happen in a high speed stall? As a CFI you must have done dozens of high speed stalls and I am willing to bet that they clatter and shudder as well.

In a high speed dive it is possible to exceed the G limit, if you pull up too quickly. Well thats new, again as a CFI you must warn your pupils about the dangers of exceeding G limits, well I hope you do.

Great loss of hight when you lose control. Well thats novel. In the UK its normal to teach spins at 12,000 ft because of the danger of loss of height. I assume you do the same in the USA for the same reason. If not what height do you start spin training at?

The need to ensure that you have sufficient speed before recovering drom a dive. Well thats standard training and one that I hope you do as a CFI

Last but not least the fact that if you are so slow off the mark as not to take remedial action should the aircraft flick over, it may result in the aircraft being strained or break it. If you don't take remedial action when entering a high speed roll/spin what do you think will happen?

I think that covers all the points that you raised. Can I ask you to point out which are unique to a Spitfire. I can say that all these points and more are covered in Glider Pilot training in the UK.

Or if they are unique to a Spitfire, can you say which you don't teach in your position as a CFI?

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

Can I ask you to point out which are unique to a Spitfire.

It does seem that British, German and Americans trials and manuals and pilots all highlight a pronounced sensitivity and instability in pitch for the Spitfire, David.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

Too true, Crumpp can continue with his Spitfire elevator fetish on his own time - his bug tracker has gotten nowhere and he just wants to re-litigate this non-issue by hijacking this thread.

Has anyone got the engine data in the Spitfire I and Hurricane I Pilot's Notes?

If you hdn't buried his point of view with your wall of text and insulting comments we might hve hd the opportunity to raise some interesting point. Do you know tht or are you tht much overdone?

[Crumpp]

Which requirements were there for long period dynamic longitudinal stability?

The requirements for long period oscillation in highly maneuverable aircraft is the slope of the velocity change should not exceed .04 difference.

Do you need me to calculate it or can you compare the slope of a line on your own?

Transport catagory aircraft have a less restrictive stability requirement which require a period of 55 seconds.

[Crumpp]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

Basically you right, but I'm sure, you cannot trim the plane as fast and accurate like in RL. When i fly with bombers, it is difficult to set the level flight. I trim the plane, and look whether moving or not. If so, I trim again, and look again, and so on. Disturbing that I don't feel the movement of the plane, or the stick forces.

And the trimm is not required such a precise handing, like the stick when you flying on the edge.

You can trim the plane reasonable well in these games. It is not the same as actually triming an aircraft but is a very reasonable facsimile.

I am sure a reasonable facsimile of the Spitfire instability can be implemented allowing the aircraft FM's to have their historical performance numbers while maintaining status as equal dogfighters.

Can I ask you to point out which are unique to a Spitfire.

Glider,

Airplanes all have unique flying qualities and the Spitfire is no different.

One of the defining characteristics of the early mark Spitfire is the longitudinal instabilty.

Modeling an aircraft with the speed, climb, and turn performance of a Spitfire and stable would be overmodeled and not historically correct.

[28_Condor]

[loop]
red pilots complain about bad FMs in british planes

clod devs fix red FM planes

blue pilots complain about uber FMs in british planes

devs downgrade red FM planes

red pilots complain about bad FMs in british planes
[/loop]

[bongodriver]

Red pilots complain about porked red fm's

Blue pilots just like t argue with red pilots

Devs fix red fm's

Blue pilots complain

Red pilots still complain aboud totally unfixed red fm's

Blue pilots just keep arguing and making up fiction about red fm's

Blue pilots forget that if they want better blue fm's they need to complain to the Devs instead of automatically arguing with reds.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

Too true, Crumpp can continue with his Spitfire elevator fetish on his own time - his bug tracker has gotten nowhere and he just wants to re-litigate this non-issue by hijacking this thread.

Has anyone got the engine data in the Spitfire I and Hurricane I Pilot's Notes?

Tomcat's right.

Every time a thread comes up that you guys don't like you just spam it with pages and pages of nonsense and trolling until it gets locked.

For some reason the moderators allow those bully tactics to continue, instead of banning the lot of you. I can't fathom why.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

The requirements for long period oscillation in highly maneuverable aircraft is the slope of the velocity change should not exceed .04 difference.

Transport catagory aircraft have a less restrictive stability requirement which require a period of 55 seconds.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, I was asking about the requirements that were there at the time.
Can you please name the source of the requirements you quoted?