SHOOTING at the OLYMPICS

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

My bad, I misinterpreted your use of the word "will" to mean "free will". You meant it in the context of willpower.

Similarly, you misinterpreted Stern's use of the word "will" to mean willpower when he meant, "free will".

However, your statement that no one, "choses", to be a criminal is, for the reasons I stated, completely unsupportable.

Furthermore, I never said anything about the nature of any choice, almighty or otherwise.

--Outlaw.

That may have been indeed the problem. I was talking willpower indeed, Over here, despite the existence of the word willenskraft, it basicly covers both meanings.
Will does not work without willpower.

WHen I talk about criminal, then I do so in the morale sense, not the legal.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by arthursmedley

nearmiss, do you have any sort of ability to distinguish between the historical record and propaganda? Do you actually believe this stuff? Really?

I think right now, this day in time the mainstream media is just an advertisement delivery system. By that, I mean it is not about what they say or report as long as they can keep their customers buying ads.

Youtube and the internet sources are our only really decent prospects for getting viable information. Yes, there are some nut jobs posting, but they are generally easy to ferret out.

It is always your personal thinking that matters to yourself. It is important to think critically and alternatively. Information sources and creditability are frequently overlooked, when we favor the message.

Look, if you guys across the pond want to have your toys - well thats fine. Last time I looked the US was a pretty active democracy and I'm sure if the people wanted to get rid of guns in your society their senators and congressmen would oblige with a bill amending the constitution. That domestic gun sales would seem to be on a permanent upward curve shows that lots of people seem to want them in your society.

Well thats no problem to me as a Brit, it's your call but please, please don't post utter, UTTER b/s about the sometimes tragic history of the rest of the world and link it to some wholly laughable argument about guns=freedom.
That just makes the rest of the civilised world regard you all as a bunch of gun-toting loonies.

As a Brit we enjoy the safety of some of the most restrictive gun legislation in the world - thank heavens!! We just don't need 'em as the chances of coming across someone armed with a gun in every day life are almost zero and we like it that way.

Don't believe me? Here you go;
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=25341

Every Brit who posted in this thread stated they were against a relaxation of our firearms laws, even a couple who live abroad did so too!

I can't tell about that, but there are plenty of videos up on the internet that don't mimic your points that are made about gun control in UK. I posted one above.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I think right now, this day in time the mainstream media is just an advertisement delivery system. By that, I mean it is not about what they say or report as long as they can keep their customers buying ads.

Youtube and the internet sources are our only really decent prospects for getting viable information. Yes, there are some nut jobs posting, but they are generally easy to ferret out.

It is always your personal thinking that matters to yourself. It is important to think critically and alternatively. Information sources and creditability are frequently overlooked, when we favor the message.

Near, I did not even bother to start counting the flaws in those videos. It was so out of this world in it's utter lack of context, factual errors and outright nonsense. The Nazi Germany one especially.
China is nearly as bad, a culture that at that time had plenty other problems then gun control. Get yourself some real history books, preferrably some released before the year 2001, when everything went nuts.

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I can't tell about that, but there are plenty of videos up on the internet that don't mimic your points that are made about gun control in UK. I posted one above.

You make some fine points about discrimination of sources but then proceed to wholly ignore them yourself! Huh?
That garbage you posted up from Youtube (roflmao) about my country is almost completely factually inaccurate. What nerve that woman has! She describes herself as a "journalist" Shame on her and the organisation she works for.

Do your critical facilities really rely on Youtube? Oh man, your school board has a lot to answer for!

[Bewolf]

I think Andy takes the issue too seriously, sometimes people do stupid things in the midst of a heated discussion, and mods are ppl, too.

But if they ban Andy, then I am out of here.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

WHen I talk about criminal, then I do so in the morale sense, not the legal.

I could care less about his moral stance or what led to his putting my life in danger. My only concern is the ACTUAL threat he is at that time, not whether he "means" it or not. Because, in the end, I may be dead whether he meant to kill me or not. At that point in time, it matters not to me that his momma beat him or his daddy didn't love him, or he's on drugs, etc. When he chooses to partake in the activity that endangers me all that goes out the door. Whether that choice is an immediate one at that instant in time or ultimately took place years ago is irrelevant to me at that instant.


--Outlaw.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

I could care less about his moral stance or what led to his putting my life in danger. My only concern is the ACTUAL threat he is at that time, not whether he "means" it or not. Because, in the end, I may be dead whether he meant to kill me or not. At that point in time, it matters not to me that his momma beat him or his daddy didn't love him, or he's on drugs, etc. When he chooses to partake in the activity that endangers me all that goes out the door. Whether that choice is an immediate one at that instant in time or ultimately took place years ago is irrelevant to me at that instant.

--Outlaw.

That is fine and great and I am sincerely sure you will sleep well after that.
Or you could support some local streetworkers or employment or education initiatives, or even a local sports club, so that you won't risk to get into a situation where you do not have your gun pointed at the attacker before he has.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Americans must in general be a very weak, frightened and insecure people if they feel the need to have armed vigilante members of the public lurking around ready to pull guns and summarily "execute" any random criminal or potential criminal they spot.

Show me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of someone "summarily executing" a "random or potential criminal" here in the US without prosecution.

The use of deadly force is CLEARLY defined by each state's laws and NONE of them allow "armed vigilante members" to roam shooting at will.

Your post is ridiculous.

In the case of the 19 year old who was killed, the citizen ORDERED HIM TO DROP HIS WEAPON AND DID NOT FIRE UNTIL THE TEEN POINTED HIS WEAPON AT HIM.


--Outlaw.

[Bewolf]

My honest respect, Outlaw.

I take back that last statement, even though you deleted your post for understandable reasons.

edit: can't even find Andy in the Member List anymore. All posts here deleted.

See ya in the air, guys.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Or you could support some local streetworkers or employment or education initiatives, or even a local sports club, so that you won't risk to get into a situation where you do not have your gun pointed at the attacker before he has.

Why do you assume I don't?

As a subset, I support...

Covenant House
Houston Food Bank
Operation Smile
Doctors Without Borders
National Wildlife Fund
World Wildlife Fund
Wounded Warriors
United American Patriots
Houston SPCA
FOP
Multiple American Indian Education Charities
and about sixteen others I can't recall off the top of my head.

Rest assured it takes me quite a while to do my tax return.

And yet, DESPITE all that, some schmuck may still CHOSE to murder me, or my sister, brother, girl-friend, father, mother, neighbor, old high school teacher, YOU, etc..

And it won't matter one bit whether or not he really MEANT to do it.

--Outlaw.