To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[LEXX]

leitmotive::

This reminds me of the ferocious arguments among boardgamers in the '70's about SPI (Simulations Publications International) boardgames and the Avalon Hill "classics." The Players of the hoary, old Avalon Hill games had a well-established play-by-mail system, player rating system, and convention competition system. These players of had played AH games for years, there was literally an established literature on their play like chess. They perceived the new, popular SPI games as completely toxic. The SPI games were seen to destroy the carefully established competition system which depended on the perpetuation of the use of the AH "classics." SPI players were seen as anarchists by the hard-core AH players. There were bitter debates. Before long everybody recognized the vast superiority of SPI games in terms of quality, realism, and presentation, and the arguments ceased. Nothing in this world stands still. Especially products for consumers. IL-2 is a game. it is not holy doctrine possessed of some intrinsic, immutable truth. It is just a toy.

Paraquoting Mark Twain, rumours of the sim's demise have been grossly exaggerated. The FB/PF community, online and offline together, has moved well beyond the old "cheater" accusations of the hostile computer gamers as I long ago predicted.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

It wasn't my intention to offend you or anybody, but in the "soundmod" I had 99% of the files were taken from other sims. Don't know if that really changed with the latest release, which I didn't test yet.

The samples now come from Mediterranean Air War - the freeware third party addon for CFS3. It's in the readme.

[LEXX]

The Strikefighters' mods sometimes make use of 3rd Party work from other sims. I assume this may be fairly common in the gaming world. Would this be Correct Thinking? As I only play The Sims, and only one The Sim at a time -- Strikefighters currently no more FB -- I never really thought about it before but it makes sense.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

The samples now come from Mediterranean Air War - the freeware third party addon for CFS3. It's in the readme.

You noticed that the MAW-team doesn't have a sound-creator, but merely people who did the additional voice-packs?
As a freeware-addon, MAW has little problems to use credits for using other peoples or CFS sounds and mixing them with sounds from other sources for a non-profit-addon.

That's different for MG and IL2, though.


Besides that the readme just thanks Lawdog for allowing to use his engine-samples. It doesn't say that all engine samples are from him.
If you follow the discussion on the boards, you'll notice where a lot of sounds came from.

[6S.Maraz]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

It wasn't my intention to offend you or anybody, but in the "soundmod" I had 99% of the files were taken from other sims. Don't know if that really changed with the latest release, which I didn't test yet.

OK, now I understand what you are talking about, but the soundmod is optional and it is only one of tens of mods available: new planes, new effects (smoke, craters, flak, etc...), new default skins, new cockpit skins, new map textures, entirely new maps, etc... . All these are original work.

Maraz

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by 6S.Maraz

OK, now I understand what you are talking about, but the soundmod is optional and it is only one of tens of mods available: new planes, new effects (smoke, craters, flak, etc...), new default skins, new cockpit skins, new map textures, entirely new maps, etc... . All these are original work.

Maraz

Correct. But the thing I pointed out was the problem that Oleg has to dig through all of these mods and ensure himself that there is no code, no texture or soundfile included from another game or all profit from SoW will go to the lawyers.

I have great respect for some of the work (though I still think the way it's done is wrong), but considering all the circumstances, I'd rather have Oleg and his team working on SoW, so these modders can implement their work officially rather than digging through these mods and implementing them in a patch for an old game.

[6S.Maraz]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

I have great respect for some of the work (though I still think the way it's done is wrong), but considering all the circumstances, I'd rather have Oleg and his team working on SoW, so these modders can implement their work officially rather than digging through these mods and implementing them in a patch for an old game.

Yes, I agree that now Oleg has to work on BoB.

Maraz

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

The samples now come from Mediterranean Air War - the freeware third party addon for CFS3. It's in the readme.

Just a point here. Just because a thing is 'freeware' doesn't mean that the creators don't own the copyright for that product. They do and would be able to pursue anyone who failed to a abide by the distribution agreement.

Now as long as it was being distributed within the terms of that agreement there wouldn't be a problem. But if the product was distributed as part of a commercial software package, the copyright owners would be entitled to see some moola for all their hard work!

When the Modder rip samples from here, there and every where, who in their right mind would encorporated into a patch for their game? Not me!

[Bearcat]

IMO the issue of cheating is now moot... Now in the future things may go south... but fore the most part I have not seen the cheating... Some of the things from AAA are just flat out EXCEDLLENT... like the QMB Plus... and the ability to change default skins... the flyable AI planes... all that stuff is great.. and IMO regardless to how the initial process was done... which is an entirely different issue.. credit should be given where it is due... not only to the AAA community admins for doing the job they do to foster an atmosphere where cheating is discouraged on their site.. to some of the flat out great stuff coming from there.

What this reminds me of sometimes is like Prometheus. He stole fire from the gods and gave it ti man.... Now prometheus in the eyes of the gods was wrong and needed to be punished... and he was.... layed out on that rock with the bird eating his liver for all eternity.. Hower the gods with all their power could not take fire back from man... and man could not be faulted one bit for using the tool provided by Prometheus.

I hope that 1C will look at some of the stuff coming from AAA and incorporate what can be incorporated or at the very least give the nod to some of the stuff coming out of there... because it isn't all bad....

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

What this reminds me of sometimes is like Prometheus. He stole fire from the gods and gave it to man.... Now prometheus in the eyes of the gods was wrong and needed to be punished... and he was.... layed out on that rock with the bird eating his liver for all eternity.. Hower the gods with all their power could not take fire back from man... and man could not be faulted one bit for using the tool provided by Prometheus.

Never seen it so perfectly expressed before. Nice one BC